The symptoms of a sickly political system

Vulture

I do think Matthew that you have to get out of the Westminster village and look at the reasons why this box has been unlocked rather than just hold your nose in fastidious horror. It is because of the abandonment of large swathes of Britain by the mainstream parties (principally but not just Liebour). Matthew, if you lived in a terraced two up two down, or a bleak council
block in somewhere like Leeds or Oldham and saw your streets filling with men with beards and women with their faces covered speaking Urdu you too would feel afraid. The BNP have absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Germany in 1933-45 and everything to do with what has happened to Britain in the last thirty years. We are all guilty; and if nothing is done about it, the BNP, like Topsy, will go on growing. Get used to it.

Andy Leeds

The election of the two BNP MEPs is a damning indictment of the rotten politics of the Labour Party. You will notice that the two BNPs were elected in basically Labour areas. It is a sad day, but one doubts it will make any difference at all to the attitude of this idiotic Labour MPs.

Rhoda Klapp

The Labour party has nothing to offer to answer the concerns of the working class. Who are they supposed to vote for?

Fraser's article was answered by going on 200 comments. Very few were racist in tone, but almost all said Fraser had got it wrong. Those who castigate the BNP should answer the questions it poses. Argument, not epithets, are what's required.

I did not see Boulton's interview as a triumph, I thought Boulton missed the point repeatedly, and the odious Griffin ran rings round him.

Moraymint

My understanding is that the Labour Party's rules are written to make it extremely hard to oust a sitting Labour Prime Minister who refuses to resign. For a leadership election even to be held, 70 MPs would have to nominate a challenger. A contest would then need the approval of party members and trade unions at a full party conference.

So, anyone who thinks Gordon Brown will be leaving office in a hurry should think again. The British people may be apoplectic with rage at the Labour Party's incompetence; it may look on aghast at the Government's utterly disastrous economic and social track record; it may believe that Gordon Brown has been a catastrophically bad (and illegitimate) Prime Minister; we, the people, may want a General Election now.

Forget it. Gordon Brown's very own brand of fascism beats anything the BNP can come up with.

BrianSJ

The ConservativeHome manifesto has
To respond to the most serious challenge of our time – Islamic fascism:
What are people doing about Islamism in the UK? The only person who has said ANYTHING is the Chipmunk.

kevin atkinson

Quite right. I too was horrified by the dress sense of some of the candidates and their supporters. Far too many blazers in the South West I know they are classic but so last year. Checks and sling backs in the North East; brave but unfortunate for that time of night.
Perhaps when the media appreciate that for some reason lots of badly dressed people vote for the BNP and are prepared to try and work out why ,rather than sneering "some thing might be done." Meanwhile the BNP goes from strength to strength.

Marbury

It may be galvanic - but in the opposite direction that your source hopes for. Labour MPs and members might conclude that if they change leader now, then a quick election will see the BNP disease spread.

Susan Hill

Matthew, the BNP are scum but scum rises to the top when things are fermenting below and the British public has been fermenting about the way NewLab has positively discriminated on behalf of the Moslem community and tried to do down Christians - and very many ordinary British people still call themselves that, however frail the ties that bind. Just one example - Eagle`s proposed law forcing Christian churches to employ homosexuals as youth and other workers - it does not apply to mosques. On the whole we are a fair and tolerant nation and have peacefully absorbed our fair share of immigrants from all corners. I don`t recall much fuss about the Ugandan asians and they settled and go on with it very quickly. But people resent being flooded and then being told they must take 2nd , 3rd snd 4th place at every turn.
The expenses scandals was the moment when people rose up and said 'enough' and looked around for a minority party to vote for. When they saw the BNP all their other resentments started to boil and the scum rose. I am slightly surprised there were not more BNP winners though obviously relieved. But if the main parties fail to address and listen to and act upon people`s grievances, they will look elsewhere - and then the scum rises.

donald fraser

On Thursday I voted BNP for the first time in my life in the European election. I waivered around two minutes in the voting booth. I’m proud to be a floating voter. Why BNP? First it was top of the list and it was exciting for that reason alone. I am protesting against both the length of the list and the horrible yellow colour. The list’s length smacked of a banana republic. It did not appear to be a British ballot paper in the traditional sense. Listing the British National Party as number one on such a “banana republic ballot paper” helped make it a no-brainer!

I don’t like to think I’m a racist. I’m prepared to suspend disbelief and trust the BNP’s self-declaration they are not racist. By voting BNP for the first time I’m challenging myself to dig a bit deeper into my own psyche. I think I’m anti-Slavic. I find the human trafficking of East Europeans for the sex trade absolutely disgusting. Current immigration policy has turned East Europeans into a new breed of sweatshop coolies to be traded across our borders. Meantime many other diverse communities (South Americans and Africans for instance) are denied visas. I am prepared to trust the BNP’s message it will reserve British jobs for British workers and use good judgement over the matter of other races that are not swamping the employment market. Africans and South Americans are not the problem, in my humble opinion. I am fundamentally anti-racist because I do not believe in a “white only” society and the ugly class conflicts it would entail. I do not think our multi-cultural society will ever be lost. For that reason I voted BNP prepared to take with a pinch of salt some of their unacceptable viewpoints.

The reality is that current policy means “everyone else out” to make room for the unlimited numbers of Slavic who are only a budget air flight away. But aren’t the Russians Slavic? My term “anti-Slavic” is only one I hold to be true within the current political make-up of Europe. The Slavic community is increasingly split into two blocks by European foreign policy. That is Russia and everyone else, to the extent which a new military conflict remains on the cards over Georgia. So when I say I’m anti-Slavic I’m only referring to the new Euro-Slavic communities being let into the UK without restriction and pitted against their previous allies, Russia. I am not anti-East European. I would welcome new quotas for instance that might allow more Romanians to come into the UK. I want more cultural diversity and not as current, a horde of white Slavic arriving mainly from Poland. That is why I voted BNP.

Why not UKIP? I was disappointed with UKIP’s failure to support British workers during the recent strikes. If UKIP cannot distinguish between Western and Eastern Europeans, but is instead anti-European in general, this is too wishy-washy and so I vote BNP on the basis of their positive message “British jobs for British workers”. I’m certainly not ready to consider voting them into real power. However I was prepared to give them my one vote this time in the hope that electoral gain this time around might help arouse patriotism of the established parties and the financial system to the continued dangers of Europe’s 2004 expansion.

Susan Hill

I agree with almost all you say, Vulture, except I profoundly disagree that we are all guilty. We are NOT all guilty. I`m not to start with. It`s too glib a phrase.

salieri

There now seems to be a disproportionately high number of elected British politicians with a glass eye. Is it oculist to observe that they are (both) loathsome characters?

D J Howitt

All politicans of all classes have to hold their hands up and take the blame. Everytime someone mentioned that they concerned about immigration...they were accused of being a racist, (a favourite tatic of Blunklett), noone wnating to be tarnished with that name promptly shut up...result immigration was not seriously debated..problem fested and the result a lovely spot called the BNP has erupted.

Al

Spot on regarding Boulton - I thought he was absolutely superb.

James

The nasty truth is that the mainstream parties need to be more intolerant to stop extreme intolerance taking root.

It's difficult - particularly when Labour for years has branded any discussion of immigration and integration as racist.

A different question is how do we break the relationship between the British white male working class and the BNP. Is it a temporary blip or the start of a much larger problem. What can mainstream parties offer this segment of the community?

Simon Stephenson

"Although Griffin was wearing a suit and trying to sound like a mainstream politician"

Yes, he's trying to pass himself off as something he isn't, but isn't this exactly what virtually all the mainstream politicians have been doing for the last 20 years? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say, and if you are going to criticise Griffin and the BNP you should do so for features where they are relevantly different from mainstream politicians. And if the behaviour of mainstream politicians makes this difficult, or unproductive, then it is the behaviour of mainstream politicians that is at fault, not those who have chosen to withdraw their support.

I hold no brief for Griffin or the BNP, in fact I would rather be boiled in oil than vote for them. But the reason these groups prosper is not because they wangle themselves around the rules of the game, but because those in control of the democratic alternative become so narcissistic that they lose sight of their responsibilities.

Read Libby Purves in The Times today

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/libby_purves/article6451867.ece

from which I give this extract:-

"But the overridingly important thing is decent administration. Government must make things work, so we can get on with our lives. That needs only the cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, temperance and fortitude. The cult of personality is inimical to all of these.

At the best, the desire to look good takes politicians' eyes off the ball and brings the wrong people close to the heart of power. It squeezes out the earnest, the technically competent, the apparently dull, and makes leaders surround themselves with those who are mainly good at fluffing up novel initiatives with which the leader can be identified (remember that Tony Blair memo of 2000?). At worst it causes actual maladministration: waste on peripherals, diversion of resources to frippery, half-cock projects and the ignoring of warnings from anxious public servants."

Summer

Vulture
Absolutly agree. Want to know why the BNP did well in Leeds, then take a week break to her sibling Bradford!! See the poor and the old trapped in 'foreign' ghettos, little of their own culture around them !!! Is that what they fought against Hitler for? Does anyone care about their plight?

And, whilst you are there, talk to the Muslim children who are brought up to think of Pakistan as home. See them caught betwixt two worlds, unhappy and confused turning into angry teenagers and fodder for Islamic extremeists.

Spit your spite at Nick Griffin as much as you like(and to be honest I don't see much difference between him and Gordon and his henchmen) but the real scandal is an unelected PM, with a growing unelected cabinet, sitting in a Government that the owners of Great Britain want to go, who are bent on stealing our liberty and giving away our country to all comers!!

John Moss

The root cause of this problem is the obsession with multi-culturalism, which, from a left-wing perspective, means letting people live by different rules our of "respect" for their culture. This is nonsense and coupled with a policy on unrestrained immigration for the last twelve years we have seen a net increase in population from immigaration of 2m and an total increase of over 3m.

Addressing those root causes means two things. First we must have a complete freeze on net immigration for at least two years then return, slowly to the manageable levels seen before 1997 of around 50,000pa, but we must also set a maximum figure for total immigration.

Then, we must have fair rules, which apply equally to all on things like housing, health, schooling and other welfare. To achieve this we ought to demand all new migrant workers and immigrants pay a deposit to the state of £5,000 which they will get back, if and when they have contributed that figure in tax.

David

Griffen was fun on Today, too,wibbling on about having a black actor in Robin Hood as evidence of a conspiracy against white people.

Fills me with optimism-the more people hear him spout his nonsens, the less likely they will vote for him next time.

Ray

Vulture - you're absolutely spot-on.

The BNP is the creation of the mainstream parties; and especially of New Labour, which has wilfully encouraged unprecedented mass immigration, conspired to turn the criminal justice system into a sick joke, and merrily continued the political establishment's treasonable love affair with a bloated, undemocratic and unwanted European superstate that is determined to snuff out the last vestiges of a thousand-years of national independence.

The British people were never asked if they wanted any of this. Rather, it has been foisted upon us by the-great-and-the-good, who have systematically lied and dissembled, and then damned those who dared to question their little schemes as bigots, racists, and myopic 'little Englanders'.

Well, now it's payback time. And if Cameron has any sense he will correctly deduce the lessons from the Conservative Party's own less than triumphant performance in these elections and begin to realign the Party back towards the aspirations of its own natural supporters, many of whose votes were probably responsible for those scores of UKIP victories being announced last night.

John Page

Your headline suggests you are blaming a "political system".

What if anything does that mean?

Ruairidh

It is very easy to overstate the significance of the BNP MEPs. The share of the vote was tiny and the influence of these two MEPs will be minuscule. Remember other EU countries have been sending an assortment of racists, fascists and communists to Brussels for years without disaster. There is no reason to suppose that they will ever be anything more than a protest party for disaffected Labour supports.

Your point about the Sky interview also highlights one of the weaknesses of the BNP. They have achieved this electoral high water mark whilst the media has tried to ignore them and pretend the voters won’t notice them. This has allowed the BNP to present themselves as something they are not – a respectable party. Now that they have a legitimate mandate this cannot go on but it will not be to their advantage. Putting BNP people on Question Time may feel like a defeat but it will show them up for the racists they are and it will rally those who oppose them. There will never be a BNP MP as long as we keep FPTP.

Incidentally I don’t think ‘anti fascist’ protests help matters when they get violent; as they frequently do. It blurs the line identifying who is the violent thug and who is the democrat.

[As an aside I’d like to ask Vulture and his/her ilk to stop using their bastardised naming system. Using Liebour for Labour, or Bruin for Brown and so on. It’s puerile. Also it makes your posts difficult to read and lessens your impact. There was an illegible post over the weekend about the reshuffle that looked like it was encrypted it had so many of these in joke corruptions.]

Horatius

Well said Vulture.

What right has Adam Boulton (or you, or any one else in the metropolitan elite) to be "visibly angry" with Mr Griffin? Because he represents the views of people who live in the situation that Vulture describes? Because he represents the views that most Britons of the wartime generation used to have?

Has it never occured to Mr Boulton(or you, or any one else in the metropolitan elite)that many ordinary people are "visibly angry" at the way your model of a deracinated balkanized multicultural society has tranformed their society for the worse.

In my view it's sheer arrogance and priggishness. Get off your high horses and listen to people a bit more.

Max Kaye

Vulture is right.

By accepting the 'progressive/Left' agenda regarding immigration, multi-culturalism and tolerance of intolerant extremism, the major parties has directly contributed to the successes of the BNP.

The only way to lance this boil is to

a) address the legitimate concerns of those who voted for the BNP; and

b) engage, confront and expose the racism and bigotry of the BNP face-on.

David

"you too would feel afraid"

Why? They are where I live, and don't scare me. They are people, pretty much like me. What's to be scared of?

Publius

"shows how sickly our political system is: like a virus preying on a badly weakened body with a shattered immune system."

Oh please! Enough of the semi-poetic commmonplaces already!

What has happened is that legitimate political debate has been closed down by use of an ever-extending blanket of boo-words.

The range of what may be discussed in the mainstream has grown narrower and narrower, until we're left with a cosy little metropolitan consensus.

I listened to Radio 4's coverage last night. It was pathetic: unprofessional, incompetent, uninformed, self-referential, smug, and pretty much content free, with Labour's crib-sheet line given free rein.

It's a while since I've listened to much BBC Radio. I was taken aback by how sloppy they had become. A generation of overpaid meeja luvvies have taken over.

Michael

"We are all guilty"

I see Prof Kiosk is back!

Minnie Ovens

There are times, Mr D'Ancona, when you sound like part of the problem.
Vulture makes a telling and true observation in his first paragraph but goes on to state there is no similarity to the Germany of the early 1930's
Here I differ in that there are both economic and social factors.
There is the feeling of helplessness over influencing events and the huge anger at the subjugation of an inate pride which made Germany (and the UK now) a once great nation. One wonders if "quantitative easing" has a bad history in the Weimar Republic.
Given these, and the facts that if the problems of Europe and Immigrstion are not addressed, I have to agree with Vulture's last sentence.

Gook

I cant agree more with Vulture. Dont blame the BNP & the people who voted. Blame the mainstream dimwits who are running this country... but remember you control by fear & this is what the mainstream want.

Libby

"The fascists are coming"?

Try living under sharia and fascism will take on a whole new meaning. Is it a question of the BNP or sharia? Is there another option? Many people do not see one.

JohnOfEnfield

My view is that NuLab have made the issue of immigration so toxic that no-one dare talk about it because of the labelling & mis-represntation, smearing, that will be showered upon them.

It was fascinating last night to see the Sky sudio unite in denouncing the BNP. But not one of them was willing to come out and even talk about immigration.

Surely it is of immense interest to every voter in the UK that NuLab have - without any mandate whatsoever - incresed immigration into the UK alomost by an order of magnitude in the 12 years they have been in power. Surely this radical change is a matter for debate, deep meaningful debate.

NuLab have completely destroyed our ability to discuss the matter in a rational way.

And because they are not able to talk about something that is so "in your face" then the electorate has no alternative but to turn to people (the BNP) who will.

It is also of note that the only people indulging in political violence last night were the opponents of the BNP in Manchester.

It was equally fascinating to watch the dissimulation of the BNP under questioning, it reminded me of NuLab spinning at its best (or worst).

It is NuLab who are creating a monster in their own image.

Border Reiver

The Yorkshiremen I met, who said they'd vote BNP, would agree with Vulture. They didn't seem swastika bearing types, rather Englishmen swamped by prescriptions from London and Brussels who decided to stick two fingers up - not a raised right arm- at mainstream polticians. However, Cameron is going to inherit an England with a fragile and divided society where there are plenty of fissures for fascists of any creed to multiply.

Ronnie

Neither the Labour or Conservative parties are willing to talk about issues that upset their agenda of news management. They are now talking at us through their spin machines and all of their spokesmen must be in complete agreement with the central line.

Thus it is impossible to talk about the EU in any meaningful way because, even now, both parties would tear themelves apart if they did. So, it is ignored as an issue.

They can't talk about immigration properly because both parties are terrified of breaching the unwritten truce of political correctness that creates a wished-for world rather than the world that is. So, they ignore it, or dodge it, and all of the consequencies that we have seen over the years have been allowed to accumulate unresolved.

The parties cannot campaign effectively because their policy-making methodology no longer comes from internal structures that involve their grassroots membership. So, they have smaller numbers and a membership demographic that has become very narrow and less effective in varied constituencies. This means that they get little meaningful feedback through their parties in the country at large and they have simply stopped listening to any information that they do get.

I think it's fair to say that the three main parties have far more in common with each other, as organisations, than with the people they exist to represent. Hence their collective arrogance and their willingness to try to foist ideas such as state funding on us.

The BNP, UKIP and others, are therefore able to fill the gap and it is now a wide-open door.

To some extent Gordon, Dave and Nick can play out their Westminster game and we can watch from the sidelines with a degree of amused interest. But we no longer have a government by any standards and we do not have credible parties in Westminster that reflect our views and aspirations. We may actually be in the process of identifying alternatives.

I don't see last night as a protest against the government or the established parties. It could be more than that. We've given them enough time and maybe now, a lot of people are just walking away from them, never to come back.

Richard

Matthew - I've been repeating the same mantra for ages (working for the Tories up t'north) that they are a legitimate political party - simple as. It's fine for people to be offended by them - but more people are offended by Labour & the Tories than they could ever be by the BNP.

The bottom line is they're a bit of a joke - a comedy vote which shows vitriol & disgust but is still a vote.

It simply isn't good enough to be offended by the BNP when they HAVEN'T EVER DONE ANYTHING. Who's the racist - the BNP lad knocking at your door saying they're all rubbish or the consensus that destroys the economy & kills a million Iraquis? I would advise more rational analysis.

Andy

It was Chris Bryant who deserved all the plaudits in that Sky interview with Nick Griffin. He forced Boulton to let him ask a question - "Who is allowed to become a member of the BNP?".

Griffin finally went on the Race Relations Act rant, speaking about 'the look', etc. It wouldn't have happened otherwise.

AndyS

Well said Vulture. Perhaps immigration and it's effects can now become a legitimate subject for debate again. If there is one positive in the election of these repellant individuals it is that ZANUlabour and the Guardianistas can longer close down the argument and scream "racist" whenever a perfectly reasonable resident of this country (of whatever colour) questions the activities of some of the people who now live here.

Andrew Zalotocky

For many years anyone who criticised the status quo on multiculturalism or immigration was immediately denounced by the liberal left as a "racist" and "fascist". In doing so they have utterly debased the meaning of those words. So when the Great and the Good now excoriate the BNP as racists and fascists (which they genuinelyl are) many people will just think "oh, that's what you say about everybody who disagrees with you".

We are living out the parable of "the boy who cried wolf". But to understand it you need to remember that in the end there really was a wolf.

Lee Jakeman

Vulture is right. I discovered yesterday that my brother voted BNP - precisely because every sanctimonious smartarse in the country was telling him not to. He's no more "fascist" than I am - just somebody that doesn't want to see his country destroyed from within - by the same sanctimonious smartarses. Either stop immigration or stop preaching.

kit salopian

But they didn't they - the BNP didn't increase their vote by some seriously scary number - indeed given the, accurate, scenario painted by Vulture and the current economic climate we should have expected a significant increase

The reality is not that Griffin and his crowd did better but that the Labour voters let them in.

It was LABOUR voters who stayed at home in droves despite having been warned repeatedly by politicians, the media and shere common sense that if they didn't vote then lunatics would start taking over the asylum

So why did all those Labour supporters stay at home. Before the results started to come in Harriet the Harrier said, s that it'd be a bad night for all major parties it was all to do with the expenses.

But that didn't happen, the Party of Moat Clearers and Duck House owners held up their vote. The Liberals dropped a fraction. NO it was just Labour voters.

SO this morning H the H has a brand new explanation. Hard pressed working class voters were disgusted that their working class Labour MPs had been milking the system. (Suggesting, but not actually saying, that the Tory Voters have suffered much less from the recession and anyway they don;t see anything wrong with having ditches cleared and duck ponds furnished,

Sadly MPs from the North East and the North West and Wales and the Southwest - might not quite see it that way.

Will Brown go - no he will not (Mandy will not let him) and anyway he stitched up the Cabinet - knowing what was coming. If he'd waited today then he WOULD have been toast.

Will Labour MPs do more than moan? They can't - the rules prevent this.

Will Johnson and Co abandon any ideas of Proportional Representation? What, risk another BNP debacle ?

eeyore

When a disease is misdiagnosed there is little hope of a cure, and not the least poisonous aspect of the BNP is the habitual adjective applied to them, "far right". They are a working class, socialist, equalitarian party, like that other yet more successful left-wing grouping, the National Socialists. As Churchill presciently observed before bthe war, "Communists and Fascists differ as the North Pole differs from the South." A true political spectrum ranges not from right to left, but from equalitarianism to libertarianism (French revolutionaries who aspired to both at once were clearly misguided, as events proved). The reductio ad absurdum of equalitarianism is tyranny; that of libertarianism is anarchy. Take your pick.

Smithy

When the people have no other way to turn and nobody will listen to their concerns, don't be so surprised. You people of the upper strata, you have neglected and ignored the signs for decades, you are left now to pour your scorn on the appearance of fellow Britains yet have allowed floods of grossly different people to take up home in the British Isle.

Hereford

10:35 - This item shows 22 comments. But only one is showing. Moderators working overtime I expect, given the subject :o)

Finnish Engineer

Congratulations to the BNP from Finland!

It amuses me greatly that people who are not personally affected by the immigration plague, will fervently support it.
This reminds me of the seventies here in Finland when almost all extreme lefties and communists were from the richest families. When daddy picks up the tab its nice to be an idealist. Or maybe they are just buying themselves a good conscience.
I've been reading The Spectator for several years and usually enjoyed its well written articles and intelligence. After these EU-elections I feel baffled. It feels like the standards have dropped in a blink of an eye.
As an outside observer it seems truly strange to me that even speccies are voting for the end of England. Great Britain is the cornerstone of Europe and she should nurture the great culture we Europeans have developed in the past. Why should we change Europe in to a medieval society when we have come so far.
I appreciate all European nations and they all have a part to play. If the nations' identities are shattered only anarchy and chaos will be left and Europe will be ruled by warlords and thugs just like the middle-ages.

Ethan

Matthew, I agree with everything you say about the BNP – but Vulture is also partly right. Remember that when the Royal Anglian Regiment marched through Luton in March, there was a small but quite offensive demonstration against them. Two people were arrested, it was reported. It is a measure of the current culture in this country that it was entirely predictable to find out later that the two arrested were not two of the original demonstrators, but two people who objected to the demonstration. I’m still angry about that, and I don’t even live anywhere near Luton. If officialdom keep acting like that, the BNP hardly need to campaign.

All the same, it is possible to find some good in the election of two BNP MEPs. However desperately Labour may seek to find some way of clinging to power, I doubt that we will hear much more about the wonders of proportional representation from Alan Johnson and his cronies.

Jim

Just wait till the country goes bust this year. Hyper inflation, mass unemployment, moral degeneracy and economic collapse get closer. When the middle class lose their savings and public spending has to be cut, especially in Labour areas, then the fun will really start.
I fear that all too soon we will come to understand why the Germans voted for Hitler. Not to be alarmist or anything, but we're all doomed.

Slim Jim

'The sort of man who will now be representing Britain in Strasbourg'.

I agree with Vulture. There's no point in holding your nose and moaning when it's the mainstream parties (or the 'sort of people' who represent us now) who have been implementing policies that do not have the wholehearted support of the electorate, viz. unlimited immigration, the adoption of EU Directives, etc. There's also the little matter of the promised referendum that they reneged on. They reap from what they have sown. I didn't vote for the BNP, nor am I likely to in the future, but this is democracy in action, something that the EU and UK political elites do not like! I sincerely hope that the focus on expenses in the UK will now look at the EU troughers and precipitate another political revolution. Ireland - we look to you to do the right thing! Again!

Steve

Altough not a BNP voter I see where their votes are coming from. Net immigration of 250,000 PA when there already 500,000 homeless and 2,500,000 unemployed in the UK is madness. The utter betrayal of the voters over the EU Constitution, Political Correctness, crime, sleaze and a feeling of abandonment. The ground is ripe for thedemon seed of Griffin.

James J

The majority of the Electorate sensibly vote out of self interest. It is contrary to the White Working classes (and most “Middle” Class White voters’) interests to have open borders and seemingly unlimited immigration.
This is not, as they say, Rocket Science.
Any section of the electorate that has to compete for jobs, housing education for their children and health care with very large numbers of immigrants can only be convinced by the media and political class that this is a good idea for a limited time.
Also treating Scottish, Welsh and Irish Nationalism as fashionable (and therefore Good) but British (English?) Nationalism as in some way different can’t really be sustained.
The political class and Right-On media need to get over it. The BNP vote will grow at each election. And will primarily be from Labour’s core vote.
There are no successful Multi-Racial societies let alone Multi-Cultural ones and as for “grafting” on a huge influx onto an old culture such as England’s—forget it.

strapworld

I cannot believe what I have just read. It is almost totally racist filth, Mr D'Ancona. The people you talk about are entitled to have a view, obviosuly contrary to yours! The way they look is of absolutely no concern of your whatsoever. I thought the photograph of you in your article in the Telegraph made you look gay! But I was guilty of sterotyping and my wife knocked me back! But just remember this.

I do not support the BNP nor did I vote for them. BUT they have been allowed to prosper because the mainstream parties have allowed many area's in our country to now resemble parts of Asia and Africa. Without the people being asked.

AND we are now handcuffed into the European Union which is far more sinister and threatening than the BNP because it actually does control us.

I cannot remember you writing about those two issues.

But returning to the main issue of your disgusting description of the 'bunch' of fellow countrymen.

You must never judge a book by its cover! Those men may have been former serving soldiers. Indeed, as my son is in the Army (a fact of which I am extremely proud!) I have met many of his friends and colleagues and they are not disimilar to the men you have so cruelly wronged.

I object strongly to what you have written it devalues this website and it devalues you.

Ian C

Absolutely correct Vulture. The BNP are there because we, as a country, have been foolish about what we have allowed to happen in our name - and our democratic institutional failures are the cause of that failing.

And now the wretches have developed the media techniques necessary to move their agenda up everyone elses. When I saw Griffin this morning and his other elected colleague last night they came across as much more credible mainstream politicians than they have ever tried to be before.

Cottage Pie

It is a sad day for this country when alienated working class Labour voters are brainwashed by the British Fascist Party into electing two BNP MEPs. This is the inevitable result of a weak, corrupt Labour Government,which no longer represents the views of the working class and is only interested in cohorting with millionaires and barons. Gordon . Go now. PLEASE!!!

rmh

We haven't discussed why the BNP got the vote they did.

No point discussing the symptom of the problem (them) when discussing the causes is far more important.

logdon

Griffin's speech was extremely convincing and exuded an aura of honesty and real conviction. Something quite frankly missing from any of the other's efforts which were mired in the usual politico’s positioning and jargon. That's what 12 years of spin has lead to. They just can't help it. Meanwhile, he was straightforward, pulled no punches and told it as it is.

Britain is in turmoil yet despite that the lies and jockeying around actuality continue, if fact it's got even worse!

Take newly elevated Glenys Kinnock for instance.

Cynically hoisted into the Lords for no other purpose than Labour expediency, this woman who once hated the despised Lords with a socialist vengeance is now Minister for Europe, but wait. Because she’d forgo shed loads of lucre by leaving early, she’s not resigning from her Brussels job until July , meaning that she’s not a Gov. Minister until after that time. (Even they have to balk at two salaries!) So we see how they disgracefully operate to attract the highest personal gain. In effect we are ministerless in that area and that’s ok?

On the immigration front Griffin got it right again. Britain has never been consulted on this matter. In fact we’ve been lied at and treated as second class citizens as if given the chance our xenophobic tendencies would boot any non white from our shores. Nothing could be further from the truth and now this insult to our collective humanity has come back to bite them.

The whiff of hypocrisy steaming off the three parties whenever BNP is mentioned comes across like nothing else. The language ramps up to insult. The faux rage reddens their faces but again we see through it.

If the BNP take seats, those seats are removed from another party and isn’t that whall all this is about? It’s not the BNP per se which rankles but the fact that such an insignificant party can actualy gain traction and erode established voting blocs.

And Griffin’s masterstroke was that given the right legal circumstances, at some point in the future non whites will be admitted. If that happens he, in one move destroys all the fascist argument. The BNP would romp it.

I see that across Europe the right has gained tremendous support with Geert Wilders coming in second in the Netherlands. What message does that convey if democracy is to be taken seriously?

My X did not rest in the BNP box but plenty did. To call the hundreds of thousands who voted in that way racists is deeply insulting. Those cosseted MP and opinion former’s who ramp up this sniffy disdain do not live in Bradford or Leeds or Oldham. They ignore the colonisation of those areas and the multicultural failures which are transforming huge sectors of post industrial urban Britain into havens of separation and unrest.

This is just the beginning.

Jez

You still don't get it do you.

David

"Is that what they fought against Hitler for?"

For the right of all people to live their lives freely and to not be persecuted because they come from a different culture?

Yes, actually.

Stephen Solley

So two BNP MEP's and an historic 15% for the Labour party, and still I have to listen to Harriet Harman tell me that they understand the concerns that people are expressing. No you don't otherwise you would call a general election!

Mathew could you find out what it is that Labour MP's are taking that is helping them to remain in this outer body, outer realism trance like state? You should circulate some of whatever it is they are taking to all of with this week’s edition, and then perhaps we could at least understand where they are coming from.

the white dragon of olde england.

Wikipedia tells us that Mr D'Ancona after a year studying medieval confession, he joined the magazine Index on Censorship, before proceeding to The Times as a trainee. There he rose swiftly to become Assistant Editor at the age of 26.

He joined The Sunday Telegraph in 1996 as deputy comment editor and columnist, before becoming Deputy Editor. He has written a weekly political column in The Sunday Telegraph for a decade. He succeeded Boris Johnson as editor of The Spectator.

He is also the author of two books on early Christian theology, The Jesus Papyrus and The Quest for the True Cross. He has written two novels, Going East and Tabatha's Code, the latter published in May 2006.

D’Ancona has also written several articles for the British political magazine Prospect.

So he has seen real life then!

What right has he got to wruite such trash as this? This is not the writing of a Christian but more like one of the baying mob attempting to stop the newly elected Euro MP from entering the count last evening!

I cannot believe that such a 'serious' writer can stoop so low.

I suggest, Sir, that you take time out from your cotton wool wrapped existence and travel tto Birmingham, Leicester, Oldham, Bolton, Burnley, Leeds and many other places and ask your self a question "WHO gave any political party the right to do this"

John Lea

Frankly, people on this site are delusional. I realise the Spectator is a Tory journal, but, really, why is the election of two BNP MEPs seen as a sad indictment of Labour? Aren't people turning to the BNP because they see (correctly) that ALL mainstream political parties are weak and corrupt and no longer represent the interests of ordinary working people. Does anyone on this forum seriously believe that trendy Dave and his chums will reverse all those politically correct policies that New Labour put in place? No, the Tories will embrace them and happily abandon all those traditional Tories who don't accept multi-cultural Britain.

Rob C

I fear Vulture (9:16) is right in much of the analysis above. I also think that our overly 'liberal' society has much of the blame in that we have become too accepting of poor standards and objective behavior. In the last 10-20 years it has become fashionable to 'offend' and be as extreme as possible. I personally don't care what religion people follow (which is easy as I don't follow any), but throughout history the 'masked' person has had something to hide and if large groups of people wandered around in balaclavas we would be equally nervous. Motorcyclists etc are understandably required to remove helmets when entering banks or shops so why should one faith have an exception? Particularly for something that could affect our security. The elderly in particular are (justifiably) intimidated by masks, and I believe they make up a large share of the anti-immigrant vote. As a nation we need to address this and as the immigrants are the new arrivals, they need to respect and understand our laws and traditions as much, if not more than we should theirs. I personally would ban the full-face Burka in public places. I realise that this would offend a minority, but ultimately it's no different than an alcohol ban in an Islamic state - a law that I would 100% respect. The 'diversity' laws here are too one-sided and this is alienating many 'native' citizens and thus the successes of the BNP. Similar is true of the gay community in that some take great delight in imposing their 'rights' on the majority to the point that even those of us that are not homophobic find objectionable. I also feel that the TV and media, in poor attempts to be diverse, are often the worst.

As a nation, most of us are very tolerant, but there is real danger that in allowing creation of Islamic only communities we create a tribal state and ultimately will create a 'Northern Ireland' of the future. I hope I am wrong, but I think the BNP share of the vote proves otherwise. Where I live in the southwest, I know of many elderly people who sympathise with BNP views, but thankfully their presence here is minimal and thus too much of a concern. Government however has to take some of the blame and respond with policy changes rather than just shout the old "they're wrong and we're right" lines...

C Powell

I agree with Vulture. I would never dream of voting BNP but when our mainstream politicians refuse to listen to people's justified concerns, when they sneer at and smear those who ask justified questions about immigration from countries with very different cultures from our own, when they fail to defend free speech, when they fail to control our borders in any meaningful way, when they fail to deport those who commit crimes here or who are decared dangerous, when they use slogans about jobs but fail to follow through, why are you surprised that voters vote for a party which appears to have something to say on these matters?

And, frankly, it's a bit rich of the current political establishment to attack the BNP as fascists when it is our self-important self-proclaimed "liberal" and "progressive" politicians who over the last 12 years have been responsible for the most sustained assault on our civil liberties, on traditional British freedoms and liberties, on free speech, when it is they who are seeking to impose authoritarian and un-British measures such as ID cards on us, who are seeking powers to spy on us when we email/visit the web or seek to go on holiday abroad, who seek to lock us up for 42 days etc., and who have at every turn undermined the key elements of a liberal democracy, as properly understood.

If fascism develops in this country then the groundwork will have been laid by those craven MPs in Parliament who have utterly failed to defend our democracy, our Parliament, our values and our freedoms. Being self-righteous now about the BNP is pathetic given their own vastly more serious failures.

I hope they learn the right lessons though I very much fear that they won't.

Rhoda Klapp

""Your headline suggests you are blaming a "political system".

What if anything does that mean?""

Well, Matthew D'Ancona is part of it. So is Polly Toynbee, David Dimbleby, Adam Boulton, Andrew Marr, Simon Heffer, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Nick Clegg and the wonderful Peter Mandelson. They and their ilk have brought us to this pass. Those folk in the ivory tower who tell us what we are thinking.

Every so often we get a chance to tell them. Unfortunately the interpreters of the message are just incapable of getting it.

Leaving out the unpleasantness of the BNP, who will address the problem that the view from within the tower of issues such as immigration, the EU, climate change and a host of others bears no relation to what ordinary people seem to think. The disconnect grows. In an ideal world we could ask the Spectator to have a look at that. I am not holding my breath.

It's plain to me that the Oborne idea of the country being divided into political class and everyone else is an accurate picture.

David

"Remember that when the Royal Anglian Regiment marched through Luton in March, there was a small but quite offensive demonstration against them"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189577/Muslim-extremists-anti-war-protest-driven-members-community.html

"The Muslim community turned on extremists in their midst yesterday, telling them they were 'sick and tired' of their behaviour. "

Good for them,eh? Let's have more people like that, rather than people than Nick Griffen who welcomse such behaviour as long as it's done by white people.

I do love how pointing out how the BNP are racist is somehow seen as metrolpolitan sneering. People everywhere do not like racism and fascism.

John Lea

Will people stop saying the BNP are winning because Labour have failed! The Tories are just as bad...same policies, same obsession with spin, same expense corruption, same disdain for the middle classes, same obsession with promoting multi-culturalism. Please wake up Speccie readers!!!

Neil

I had to laughter when the other candidates walked off the platform when Griffin and the other successful BNP candidate went up to speak.
It just looked extremely silly and child like - rather like turning off the sound whenever Gerry Adams spoke on the tv in the Thatcher days - this sort of "head in the sand attitude" will not work.

Simon Stephenson

Susan Hill : 9.29am

"I agree with almost all you say, Vulture, except I profoundly disagree that we are all guilty. We are NOT all guilty. I`m not to start with. It`s too glib a phrase."

With respect, you're splitting hairs. I think you know that "we're all guilty" is not intended to be read as "every single person's guilty", and I expect you also know that attempting to derail it by saying "I'm not" is just a diversion.

Isn't it better to take part in the discussion, not sidetrack it? Read "we're all guilty" to mean that the fault has taken hold, is widespread and deep-rooted, that the core is rotten, that it is not a problem that can be nipped in the bud - it cannot be dealt with just by sanitising a handful of individuals.

dorothy wilson

Vulture is right to argue that vast swathes of the British working class - those people who used to be known as the salt of the earth - have been let down by NuLabour.

However, there is a similarity in the current situation with the rise of Hilter in Germany. Some years ago I asked the father of a German friend why Hilter was able to takeover. His reply was along the lines: "Well, nobody cared about us. Everyone looked down on us as though we didn't matter. He made us feel important."

I'm pretty sure you would feel that there are large numbers of ordinary working folk in the UK today who feel nobody cares about them and that they too are looked down on.

John Page

During the campaign, it was noticeable how little coverage the BBC gave to any debate about whether EU membership was desirable or not.

Similarly, coverage of the BNP seemed to consist of other parties telling us not to vote for them.

This is not the democratic coverage we pay for.

And would so many people have voted BNP if the party had been exposed to direct questioning?

Instead, the BBC adopted the same de haut en bas attitude as Matthew.

If "the system" is sick, this condescension is a contributing factor. But I still don't understand what the heading to this post is supposed to mean.

Could it perhaps just be that people showed dissatisfaction with their problems not being addressed?

Simon Stephenson

Andrew Zalotocky : 10.26am

Quite correct.

The mainstream saw some votes to be grabbed by describing anyone who thinks outside the box as "extremist". Well, just as in the parable, it's backfired, because the lamebrains in the mainstream failed to anticipate consequences other than the ones they wanted to see.

Pathetic, utterly pathetic, but then more fool us for letting them do it. It's the ordinary people who'll suffer, not the ones who've spent the last 15 years nest-feathering.

Bart

You call Fraser Nelson's article BRILLIANT.

Nonsense! It was a very feeble thing that didn't come near justifying the crude sensationalism of the swastika on the magazine's cover.

AAE

So two BNP MEPs are elected to Euroland - where I ask was the outrage and revulsion when vicious racist unrepentant terrorists were forced upon the people of Northern Ireland in a rigged government? It has long been a feature of the left to smear their opponents in order to avoid engaging in argument. Neither you nor anyone else in Camp Cameron should let yourselves down by following that example. It is this failure of cosy self-righteous consensus politicians and commentators to argue which gives rise to extremists. Politics not platitudes please.

strapworld

Mr. D'Ancona,

As you have declined to post my comment, I will write to complain to The Equality and Human Rights Commission as I believe your descriptions of the 'bunch of skinhead nasties' is a disgrace.

I said, amongst other things, I am proud that my son is in the armed services and his friends and colleagues look just like those you so describe. I do hope they get a good libel lawyer!

Pete Hoskin

strapworld: I found your comment in our system - it hadn't got through to me, for some reason - and I've now approved it. It should be showing above.

If any comments of yours go missing, you can always email me on phoskin @ spectator.co.uk and I'll happily look into it. More often than not, it's due to technical problems.

Martin C

Vulture (9.16am) is bang on the money. Immigration has been rising steadily for the past 40 years but when Labour took power in 1997 it really exploded. The immigration that has taken place over the past 10 years totally dwarfs any previous episode in British history; the Irish, the Jews, the Hong-Kong Chinese and Ugandian Asians - drops in the ocean compared to the numbers that have arrived recently thanks to Labour's open-door policies.
But the bien-pensant Left do not intend to discuss the matter, and instead closes down the debate on anyone who dares try to open their mouths by simply ranting and screaming "Racist!!!" at them.
In this way we have been totally denied the discussion and debate by our media and our elected representitives that such a momentous policy should have had.
The BNP's success is the direct result, the offspring in fact, of Labour and its policies. The BNP is successfully targeting Labour seats and is taking voters directly from the Labour party - testimony indeed of the contempt with which the Gramscians who run the Labour party treat their white working-class core vote.
But the good news is that our body politic is not sick; quite the opposite. It is now in the process of recovery, and is rejecting the infection of political correctness that has done so much damage over the past 10 years.
They will all be swept aside soon, with any luck at all.

Publius

Bart. You are right. Mr Nelson's article was not brilliant. It was just an attempt to pin the "racism" tail on the donkey and then go smirking off. What mattered was not whether the BNP are racists, but whether they have a point.

And I'm afraid that Mr D'Ancona's hobby-horse of virtual-world "smart mobs" and all the other clever-clever Web 2.0 nonsense is wearing a bit thin too.

Here's a real mob on the horizon, Mr D'Ancona. And it seems you have no resources. Just like Labour and the BBC. You can bleat fascist and racist all you like. The mob doesn't give a damn any more.

When even telling a joke about a Scotsman is called racist, the boo-word loses all traction. Too late now to try and invest it with meaning.

steve

many excellent posts...
The liberal 'elite', including Matthew D'Ancona, are traitors to this country.

Daniel Lionsden

I don't know why journos are so afraid to engage with the BNP. I saw the Bolton interview last night and he made Griffin look like the bigoted idiot he is. The BBC, however, still seems to be following the NUJ guidelines of "ignore them and they'll go away", an obvious failed policy and one which was widely circumvented by broadcasters when attempted by the Thatcher government against Sein Fein (but then NUJ has always been sympathetic to terrorists).
Perhaps this new reality will draw a change in policy from the BBC and they may actually engage with the BNP and other racist far-left parties (ie do their jobs). Its not as though Griffin and his hateful band have any real arguments other than resentment and fear.

Justin Pressive

"...one got the true measure of the man when he talked about Islam and said that you knew that a person was suitable for BNP membersip by their 'look'."

You've deliberately misquoted him. The man said nothing illogical, only ill-formed as he was caught unaware. You're suggesting, along with the rest of the crowd-pandering journalism, that the British don't exist.

What a terrible state this place is in. No pride, no assertiveness, no values, just meekness and supplication. Beloved "tolerance" is just the absence of value. You will find values where your tolerance ends. It seems Britain's only value is now corrupt: ridicule those who are unpopular.

The political playing field is ever so slightly tipped against those who are determined to shatter social illusion, so unfortunately.

'"Men! Dear hearts so vainly valiant! If you are set on following one who intends to see the business through to the end, this is the picture: the Gods, by whose grace our kingdom once stood, have washed their hands of us, abandoning shrine and altar; the city you would relieve is ablaze: let us die, let us charge into the battle's heart! Losers have one salvation - to give up all hope of salvation."'

Ken

Well spoken Finnish Engineer.

The BNP outcome signals the views of many of those who do see a significant Islamist threat to European culture.

The capitulated Westminster mainstream however prefers the chorus-line of "progressive" EU elites.

Rhoda Klapp

I see Mel P gets it. Perhaps she could explain it to Matthew and Fraser? Surely no-one could say she was a nazi sympathiser?

It is time for the Spectator to recognise what is going on, and to hold the rest of the political class to account. Or remain part of the problem.

Verity

Rhoda K notes: "Well, Matthew D'Ancona is part of it. So is Polly Toynbee, David Dimbleby, Adam Boulton, Andrew Marr, Simon Heffer, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Nick Clegg and the wonderful Peter Mandelson. They and their ilk have brought us to this pass. Those folk in the ivory tower who tell us what we are thinking."

I would add James Forsythe to that pretentious crew - all the exquisites strutting around the lawns and sniffing their wine at dinner tables populated by people exactly like themselves, their sense of strutting, peacock-like self-importance comical to watch, but oh so dangerous behind the posturing, thinking that their separate little world is the centre of the universe.

These are the people as noted above, who have imposed a fascist regime in Britain that would render our ancestors of only two generations ago speechless with astonishment. "Political correctness" is the polite term for it.

I started, last night, to respond to someone on the election blog thread, but put it to one side, thinking I would pick it up this morning only to be faced, when I turned on the computer, with the avalanche of comments on this thread.

But I want to return briefly to the point I was going to make on that abandoned post about the BNP and "racism". It has been noted several times that a couple of senior members of the party are married to Chinese women.

Now, think about it: being married to a Chinese does not count as being non-racist. Why is that. The Mongolians are a separate and very distinct race. This leads me to believe that being "non-racist" is only defined by specific races, or a religion ignorantly defined as a race.

BTW, I read that a couple of BNP members are bringing up - to use that revolting British term - "mixed race" children. For some reason, this doesn't seem to count. Ah, the exquisites hold their prejudices so dear and with so many little rules and nuances!

AAE

Matthew, read Melanie's latest blog . . . . .

TGF UKIP

I completely agree with Vulture, Ronnie, Rob C and John Lea (amonst others.) We have three main Social Democratic Green parties with identical values of political correctness and petrified of speaking in anything other than the same linguistic uniform.

What makes this a great worse is that we also have a media which holds exactly the same views and speaks in the same language which is why it never seriously questions or even properly analyzes the sort of issues that propel the BNP vote.

Those doyens of village hackery, Finkelstein, Toynbee and Richards were all at it on the BBC last night. All unctuously wailing at the success of Griffin & Co they were seeking every excuse under the sun to explain it without ever daring to touch upon the obvious - uncontrolled immigration and the imposition not only of alien ways and cultures but of laws to prevent vociferous objection to what so many see as theft of their country.

But let me give a perfect example of the village media mindset. "It's not racist to defend your people, your culture and identity when it is under attack" which is a sentiment many of us might heartily agree with. Not, though, the Richmond on Thames dwelling "brilliant" Fraser Nelson who proceeds to describe those words, from a man named Reg Norgan a BNP organiser, as "comically crackpot."

Is it really any wonder Mr d'Ancona that there is such a divide between you and us?

Meanwhile, I am certain that Griffin must thoroughly enjoy every coldly sneering aggressive interview he gets put through from the BBC. Not only does he more than hold his own but unlike the pusillanimous Cameron Greens he gives better than he gets by putting his boot back into the voice of the village, the BBC.

He also made clear in an interview with Amroliwalla(?) this morning that he intended to campaign against the massive "climate change" con being perpetrated on us all and the consequent danger to our electricity supply. A stance likely to gain him many extra votes if he can force himself onto the airwaves.

What I do completely fail to understand though is why the BNP are invariably referred to as a party of "the extreme Right" by people who should know a great deal better. Finkelstein was at it last night as was Nelson in his "brilliant" piece. They are anything but as their website makes abundantly clear. They are militantly against free market capitalism and they are in fact nationalist socialists exactly like Hitler's Nazis were.

Charles Gomila

It is NOT axiomatic to democracy that we have to tolerate views we find objectionable.

We don't tolerate the views of Al-Qadea and other groups do we?

There must be limits to what even a liberal democracy like ours can tolerate.

Florence Nightingale

Vulture is correct. Congratulations to C.Powell on an excellent post.
Far from being brilliant, Adam Boultons' interview with Nick Griffin was deplorable. He constantly interrupted and then blatantly distorted every word the man spoke.
The BNP constantly complain that the MSM tell lies and twist their message; Adam Boultons' interview proved their point and may have won them some support.
A good interviewer strives to remain calm and appear impartial;temper lost means argument lost and I have lost all respect for Adam Boulton.

Tiberius

Quite right, Vulture, in analysing the reasons behind the rise of the BNP. Remember the letter sent to Enoch Powell by his constituent, complaining of the effects on her life of mass immigration at such a fast rate?

But too many in positions of influence dismissed such constituents or those who took on their cause as racists. The former's failure is akin to not reading an exam question properly, answering a question which they wanted posed rather than the one actually set.

The outcome of this failure is yet fully to be determined, but merely broadcasting antipathy towards Nick Griffin or the BNP in general is just perpeuating the mistake.

Kirsty

If you take your democratic rights seriously, you vote for the party whose manifesto you agree with. If you vote for BNP, you're either fascist or stupid. all the whining about the failures of the mainstream parties are just excuses.

biggestaspidistra

Vulture's comment (the first one here) is entirely correct.

The main political parties, the BBC and journalists like yourself are responsible for the rise of the BNP.

Britain has become a weak society without discipline. The middle classes behave badly, the working classes behave badly and immigrants behave badly. And no one is brave enough to point this out. Into this vacuum the BNP has stepped. The only surprise should be that it took them so long.

Publius

@Kirsty

Nonsense. If you take your democratic rights seriously, you use them in order to make your views known and acted upon.

Martin Morrow

I find the overal tone of these emails very depressing - because they are so right.
Are we to see the "Conservative" party continuing to ignore a couple of large Gorillas in the room?
Are they so politically correct that they cannot take note of both the EC and Immigration controversies.
Will they continue to doublespeak ther way through a wandering manifesto?
Better look at the percentages for once Mr Cameron. That is 13 seats for UKIP and their voters are mostly Tories who are fed up to the back teeth with being ignored.
In fact both parties seem to be on a different planet to the rest of us.They talk about "getting on with the job".
Damned if I know what that is.

John Lea

Kirsty - that has to be one of the most naively arrogant blogs I have ever read. According to you, the electorate's legitimate sense of alienation from all 3 mainstream parties is just an 'excuse' for them to vent their fascist spleen. Yes, we're all closet Nazis just waiting for an excuse to get those jackboots on and invade Poland!!

You also seem to be making a vacuous point about civic responsibility, namely that by not voting for one of these discredited parties we are not carrying out our national duty. Really? Does voting for self-servers like Brown/Cameron/Clegg make me a true democrat? Please do tell me why I should vote for a bunch of people who have defrauded the British taxpayers of thousands of pounds in order to subsidise their opulent lifestyle, whilst simultaneously bringing the nation to its knees - both morally, politically, culturally and economically.

Not Quite Hayek

Adam Boulton's interview tanked - it was only the intervention of Labour's Chris Bryant MP with an upfront question that caught Griffin off-guard and caused him to fluster on his answer about BNP membership.

Otherwise, Boulton's interview was inconsistent from the start. If he treated other interviewees in that style then it wouldn't be a problem.

Instead, he's just added to Griffin's 'martyr' status.

Verity

How old are you Kirsty? I'm putting you down for 17.

Archie

Not at all, Mr. D'Ancona. it's something called "the will of the people."

Edward

Vulture has hit the nail on the head.

The UK populace are patronized by the repetition of platitudes within the MSM concerning the "loathsome" BNP in the same way that for years we were told day-in day-out that Gordon Brown was the most successful Chancellor.
Concerning Brown, the MSM eventually woke up... looking both obsequious and ridiculous in the process.

I find the Labour Party as loathsome as the BNP, and feel it is only a matter of time until the electorate discover that the Conservatives are loathsome too.

Get over it.
It's supposed to be a democracy, and the BNP are a legitimate political party.

Trouble is, in UK 2009, such a sensitive atmosphere has been manipulated that one's personal and political views do not have to be extreme in order to qualify as "racist".
The UK government has adopted at best, a laissez-faire approach to it's immigration policy, and is now reaping what it has sewn.
And the electorate has responded.

It is my belief that once the UK government discovered it had no clue how many immigrants were in the country legally or illegally, it invented the term "multi-cultural" as if it had been a "policy".
And we were all told to "celebrate diversity".

I chose to leave the UK in 2007 and now live in a country where, due to the lack of "sophistication", PC/multiculturalism does not (thankfully) exist.
I find the atmosphere here healthy and normal.

As an immigrant, if I wish to retain my resident's visa, I must produce evidence every year that I can support myself and my dependents financially.
I see nothing wrong with being required to do so.
In a couple more years, I may be invited to apply for citizenship.

The BNP has always been present in UK politics during my lifetime (earlier in the guise of the National Front). Nobody considered them a serious political threat 35 years ago, and they were unelectable then.
But the UK of 35 years ago is vastly different to the UK now.
And that's why I left.

John Alexander

The BNP is against the EU, immigration and multiculturalism. So is UKIP and the English Democrats. So, to a lesser extent, is the Conservative party. It is hypocritical to heap all this opprobrium on the BNP without recognising the widespread existence of xenophobia and bigotry on the right of UK politics.

On another note: what does all this say about Blair's Cool Britannia, this outgoing, multicultural, ethnically diverse, cosmopolitan version of UK society? The British don't want it and never did it. It's another New Labour pipedream down the pan.

Andy Leeds

Some on here are missing what is going on. The BNP were successful in Labour areas. In predominately Tory areas the protest vote went to UKIP. Unlike a lot of people posting here I actually know Burnley, Oldham, Barnsley, Bradford etc etc etc. Comes as no surprise to me, so perhaps Matthew needs to get out a bit more, leaving the cosy confines of SW1. And lets be honest: there are few who can throw the race stone. We tolerate the 'Black Police Officers Association' as Griffin pointed out. I assume there is a 'White Police Officers Association'. Thought so.

Cynical Voter

"You will notice that the two BNPs were elected in basically Labour areas. "

Bullshit ! Yorkshire is the largest county in England...it is a huge regional constituency and very diverse even if most of its population is concentrated in Leeds and Bradford. Without Yorkshire and the Northwest the Conservatives cannot rule the country.

It would be best to make the Labour Party an illegal organisation - it is detrimental to the well-being of the nation. It may simply suffice for it to go bankrupt when the Comfort Letter from the Unite trades union is called in.

Mandelson was a Young Communist who travelled to Cuba yet he gets far less opprobrium than Nick Griffin who was a Cambridge law graduate and Boxing Blue.

Why is our media so predisposed to downplaying Communists and inflating bogeymen on the right ? Is it because so many journalists were Maoists (Andrew Marr) or had family links to the CPGB (Martin Kettle) or were Fellow Travellers (long, long list) ?

The BNP is becoming a talisman revealing more about its ranting antagonists than about itself...just as the Brownshirts in Manchester trying to disrupt an Election Count by preventing Nick Griffin entering Manchester Town Hall showed that today's "Nazis" call themselves "Anti-Nazis" but the mindless game of violent affray and intimidation is the very same

riccardo

It wouldn't be true to say the mainstream parties have never mentioned immigration. Remember Hague warning that we would be "swamped"? Fat lot of good it did him. He was massacred in the media. A few years on and everyone realises we have a problem, but most politicians are scared of getting the Hague treatment.

The public has seen the word "racist" so over-used that it has now become OK to vote for a racist party. After all, you can get called racist for the least thing. If they can shout "racist" at the police, army, NHS, teachers, etc etc etc what value does the word have any more? The media say the BNP are racists, but that doesn't mean anything does it? And Mr Griffin wants to cut crime, bring back the death penalty, stop new immigration and nationalise the gas/electric cartel.
I'm surprised they didn't get more votes.

Minnie Ovens

For those of you who cannot understand the scale of immigration in the past ten years, can I suggest you read:
1)A Nation of Newcomers. David Conway. Daily Telegraph 22/04/07.
2)Never have we seen immigration on this scale. Robert Rowthorn. Daily Telegraph. 02/07/06.
Two snippets;
Between 1066 and 1945 only one group managed more than 1% of the population, that of the Itish in the nineteenth century (3%).
In 1950 the ethnic population was just over 1%. By 2001 it was 8%.
Official statistics state that between 2004 and 2005 net immigration was 300,000 persons a year.
At present rate Immigration adds 1% to population per anum, 5% every decade..
Immigration has accounted for 80% of Britain's population increase since 1999.
And Parliament wags a finger at those who remonstrate saying "racist".
How eggregious, how dishonest, how complacent, how hypercritical.

Kirsty

@John Lea

Why not vote for the Greens then? or stay at home? People who voted for the BNP are attracted to their ideology, just admit it.

Kirsty

@Publius

If you really think about it, we're talking about the same thing.

logdon

Well, well, not much equivocation here. Good! It's about time we stood up for ourselves against the creeping islamification of Britain and after all isn't that what this is about?

Nip across to the MPACUK, MCB, Muslim Weekly, Islam Online and Islamophobia Watch sites for true enlightenment.

The divisiveness, disgruntlement, anti-Semitism and sheer hate which pours off those pages makes the BNP's message look like a vicarage newsletter yet we hear not one peep from our authorities.

Those MP's now screaming blue murder about two wins quite ignore this of course. So wrapped up in their own little self indulgent tidy worlds where to be seen as, gasp, racist is tantamount to heresy.

Disgraced MP, Shahid Malik is caught on film at an Excel gathering, rooting for a totally Muslim parliament and that's ok?

Ahmed blackmails us by threatening a mob of ten thousand descending on the Lords and we acquiesce.

The MCB boycott Holocaust Day then scream when accused of anti-Semitism.

Crosses and expression of Christianity are now taboo.

Christmas is vanished to be replaced by Winterval.

Piggy Banks are removed from a bank in order that offence is not taken.

Returning soldiers are heckled by Islamists.

Soldiers recovering in hospital are harassed by muslims.

Orderly protest is turned into a melee with the unedifying spectacle of our police fleeing a baying mob.

Death threats to all kuffars are paraded with impunity during cartoon protests.

George Cross flag’s, our very own national symbol are despised and discouraged.

That’s a tiny fragment of this fragmentation and Labour not only tolerate it but punish those who do not.

Pretty soon patriotism will be a criminal offence the way things are shaping up and this BNP success is a warning shot. Meddle with our nationality and eventually our torpor will fracture.

I certainly hope our politicians heed this very explicit massage otherwise civil unrest is the next phase.

Then what?

TGF UKIP

So d'Ancona gets a massive kicking for his silly post. Bet it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference though.

Like the rest of the village he will be infectd by the virus of invincible arrogance.

Home Rule for England

I'm not a BNP supporter. I would never vote for them. However I thought Adam Boulton's interview 'technique' was appalling. On hat showing he's not even worthy of being called a third rate Jeremy Paxman.
Asked a question then interrupted the reply almost immediately. What a bore!

Cynical Voter

"@John Lea

Why not vote for the Greens then?"

Because the Greens believe in Unlimited Immigration

Musical Paramatta

Why should any voter opt for the BNP? Could it be withdrawal from the EU? Abolition of "positive discrimination schemes"? Crack down on crime? Discipline, standards and achievement in education? First class healthcare for all? Investment in the environment and transport? Prioritising pensioners? A Bill of Rights for fundamental freedoms? (source: BNP Manifesto 2009). If only the mainstream parties would concentrate on these issues, the BNP would disappear because it would be redundant.

peter

The truth is that many mainstream political parties start life on the fringe and then work their way into the mainstream.

Look at the roots of the Israeli government - they were terrorists back in 1948 killing British soliders.

And look at them again today.

Oh, hang on...

Peter S

At the end of the day Griffin has a point. And it is a point we have all, perhaps, been reluctant to hear expressed and find a usable answer too.

It is the three main parties which are profoundly 'racist'. If racism means giving privilege to a person, or group of people, based upon the colour of their skin, language and culture - within a territory which (like all territories) is defined by the colour of its population's skin, its language and its culture.

Griffin simply asks the obvious question that the three main parties have for too long been pretending does not exist.

Part of the feigned shock at hearing the words Griffin can now place into the public arena (words which some people have turned to violence to silence) is born of the idea he reasserts... that a territory could possibly be at its best if it defends (well-enough) those attributes which so define it - both to itself and to the outside world.

The shock is largely that of the day-dream of merger we have been unquestioningly indulging ourselves in for years (and increasingly ring-fencing with the crushing censorship of 'political correctness') coming into a direct and raw contact with its opposite - the reality of separation (Utopias are always about merger).

We would wise be to know if the shock we are so quick to express is in response to Griffin's grubby crew - or simply at the reappearance of an idea long neglected by mainstream parties who have grown sick and mindless on an inhuman fantasy.

I would suggest the second option has more truth to it - as we can see exactly the same process in play with the mainstream parties sinking into this inert, impotent 'centre-ground' of merger using the myth of 'global warming' as its vehicle.

Using our minds to recognise the pattern of these blind-allies we keep charging up might be the first step in providing the electorate with the exchange of ideas which would render groups like the BNP of no value to anyone.

Archie

The main reason for not voting Green is their commitment to unrestricted immigration. A contradiction in terms, if ever I saw one!

Edward

Mr d'Ancona :
Just as one man's meat is another man's poison, one man's impression of "BNP... skinhead nasties" could be another man's impression of "Bullington Boys".

david

If you ask the Tories which oppressive anti-libertarian PC Labour statutes will they repeal you will not get a answer ask the BNP they will say the lot.

Fergus Pickering

Come along, Matt. What this shows is that about 5% of the people who voted feel very strongly that there has been too much immigration lately, specifically too much muslim immigration. I feel this too, but nowhere near strongly enough. What is your feeling about muslim immigration? Is theer too much? Not enough? It is about right? It doesn't matter? In France and Holland (for a start) they seem to feel MORE strongly about this than we do. But then they have more muslims. Do I get to say this, or does the magic word muslim mean that my post is censored/refused?

John Lea

Kirsty - 'Why not vote for the Greens then? or stay at home? People who voted for the BNP are attracted to their ideology, just admit it.'

Some people will doubtless vote for the BNP because they are racist, many because they feel totally disillusioned with mainstream politics. Personally, I don't know many people who have any trust left in the 3 main parties - especially after the expenses row, but even before then. Most politicians seem to be dedicated - in Peter Hitchens' memorable phrase - to the 'abolition of Britain'. Successive governments (from the Major years onwards) have opened up our borders, attempted to destroy our national identity, run down our once proud education system, forced multiculturalism and politicall correctness down our throats at every opportunity, emasculated the police force and destroyed the very idea of criminal justice. So, as I say, you cannot blame people for tunring to the likes of the BNP when they see their nation being systematically destroyed by successive Labour and Tory governments.

p.s. the Green Party are just as fascistic as the BNP, but because they are predominantly middle class, people don't seem to view them in the same light as Nick and his chums.

peter

What I don't understand is, why do the mainstream politicians call the BNP facsists. Did the BNP put up 14Million cameras, are they the one's who want a giant database on us all, are they intoducing ID cards. Correct me if I am wrong but please tell me who voted for Mandleson and the rest who have just been appointed to make government policy, I don't remember anyone voting for them, yet here they are telling Broooooon how to run the country. No, sorry, any democracy we ever had in this country has been eroded, and when when people ask how we're told to shut up, well people are sick of being quiet. People are now turning to the only party that listens, you can't really blame them can you. I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. I sometimes ask myself, was this the plan anyway, the answer is, yes, it had to be the outcome, there is no other answer.

logdon

This is what Griffin has to say.

Fellow Patriot,

The election of two British National Party Members of the European Parliament has forever smashed the media lies about the party and is a defining moment in British history.

The BNP has been catapulted to centre stage in European politics and the world's media. The victory in the face of the most outrageous lies and mass-media slurs was tribute to the steadfastness and determination of the voters of Britain.

This astonishing victory has shown that the mettle of the men and women who created the British Empire, who fought like lions in the furthest corners of the globe, who sacrificed like titans in Flanders, who endured the Blitz and who stormed the beaches of Normandy, is still alive.

The far left and the Tory types who thought that the British spirit was dead and that they could walk all over 10,000 years of history, tradition, culture and heritage, were wrong. The British lion has awoken, and its roar will now be heard throughout the world.

Our first priority in the European Parliament is to send our researchers into the archives to dig out the facts about the conglomerates and corporations which have profited from the privatisation theft of Britain's "common wealth". The dissolution of the institutions and property of the British nation into the hands of the internationalists is the single greatest piece of larceny in our history and we will do all we can to fully expose it.

The truth of how the ownership of all our national assets ended up in foreign hands is all there, untouched in the archives. None of the parties want to investigate it. The Tories won't, because they were the ones who starting selling everything off and gutted British industry. Labour won't because they carried on with the Tory policy. The Lib-Dems won't because they hardly have any ideas about anything. The Greens won't, because they don't know about it, and UKIP won't because they are just another corrupt Tory front anyway.

The BNP will not shirk from this responsibility, and I can assure the public that the scandals which lay waiting to be uncovered will make the claims for bathplugs, porn films and housing allowances in Westminster seem like small potatoes.

The victories in Yorkshire and the North are directly linked to the endemic problem of racial grooming. The large votes registered for the BNP in core areas like Oldham and Bradford are a desperate cry for help from the indigenous British population, the Sikhs and other communities about the appalling racist violence and endemic problem of racist sex-grooming scandals perpetrated by individuals from within the Muslim community.

We now have the mandate to demand action by the police and authorities on this issue. It can no longer be swept under the carpet and ignored like they did with the latest two murders last week of indigenous Britons.

The enormously enhanced credibility and electability of the BNP would have far-reaching consequences throughout the British body politic. The BBC will no longer have an excuse to bar us from prime political airtime, and the media will find it even harder to spin lies about us. This marks a seismic shift for the BNP, and all the voters who placed their crosses next to the brave BNP candidates all over the country can rest assured we will not waste this opportunity to reverse Britain's decline.

The BNP's election victory was a stinging defeat for the far left who had poured huge amounts of money into an anti-BNP campaign. Their failure to stop the BNP will become nothing but an irrelevant footnote to the great historical events of last night.

After the disgraceful attacks on members of the public by the far left outside Manchester City Hall last night, I repeat my challenge to Tory leader David Cameron to distance himself from these stormtroopers of the ruling elite, or forever be tarnished by his open association with these thugs who seek to destroy democracy in Britain.

Finally, I wish to thank all those unsung activists and Nationalists throughout the land on their heroic and determined effort during this amazing campaign. We have well and truly "made it" at last. My hat especially comes off to all those veteran members who have been waiting for this national breakthrough for over ten years, some maybe even longer.

It fills me with pride to stand shoulder to shoulder with all of you. The day we have been waiting for has arrived. After a summer of consolidation and re-organisation, we can look forward to launching our General Election campaign as a truly mainstream party with enough financial and manpower clout to really make a difference.

Onwards and upwards fellow Nationalists - WE DID IT!

Long live the British People!

Simon Stephenson

Peter s : 9.14pm

"Using our minds to recognise the pattern of these blind-allies we keep charging up might be the first step in providing the electorate with the exchange of ideas which would render groups like the BNP of no value to anyone."

Well said.

Re-recognising the fickle nature of emotion, and the structural solidity of reason, before engaging our minds, would also be a considerable step forward.

Herbert Thornton

Vulture sums the situation up eloqently.

Indeed, the thread's heading itself - "The symptoms of a sickly system" brings to mind the expression res ipsa loquitur - Mr. D'Ancona is part of the system and his article is a conspicuous symptom of it.

egh

Now, Logdon - that's what I call powerful stuff!!

Charles Gomila

RE Logdon's "men and women who created the British Empire"

Many 'non-white' people from the British Empire gave their lives fighting for Britain.
For example: there were 74,190 Indian casualties in the First World War (Source: Commonwealth War Graves Commission website)