Why Brown will get caught out this time around

Peter from Maidstone

Why is there a limit to how long you will keep saying that Brown is lying? Surely it is your job as a journalist to keep saying it over and over again until it is heard and understood? Why have you stopped? The bigger the platform the more you need to keep saying it! If you don't say it over and over again you are complicit. If Brown was slowly murdering his cabinet would you cease to mention the growing number of absent ministers simply because you had said it a few times already?

Sally Chatterjee

Fraser, well done for your persistent coverage of Brown's methods.

As you say, the Conservatives seem unable to stop his lies. What should they do to counter all the false accusations?

I'm glad the blogosphere can react but we have Her Majesty's Opposition and they need to oppose!

Geoff Wyatt

He was caught lying with his own figures!

badman

When Brown became Prime Minister he had a strong reputation with the public for integrity - polling showed that. This meant that he was generally believed.

That is no longer the case. This too will make it harder for him.

Jeremy Drysdale

This is an excellent article. I noted the disdain with which he treated you at the No.10 press conference when you challenged him on the specifics of his figures, Fraser. He can't keep on keeping on these days - and he still doesn't see that. He doesn't understand the changing world and stares at it as an old man might do a cellphone - he knows it has power, but he really isn't sure how to use it...

Nick

Fraser, I may be wrong, but I don't think you have ever said that Brown "lies" or ever written an article headlined "Gordon Brown is a liar".

Yes, you demonstrate well that his figures don't add up and that his statements are inconsistent and you have even devised a name for these "Brownies" but you, and the Tory frontbench, are too polite to ever actually call them what they are - lies.

The public aren't interested in the details of the IFS's fisking of the 2012 budget projections but they would respond to a robust denunciation of Gordon Brown's "lies".

hadrian

We ever applaud your minute analysis,your courage, Mr Nelson..but let us say loudly and clearly that if you ( and your press colleagues) fail in matching the indefatigability of the Great Deluder/Pretender in spreading disinformation then you to some extent become complicit in his lies. I for one shall never tire of his lies being refuted speech for speech, article fpr article, line for line, word for word. They shall not pass! Ratzinger was the late Pope's rotweiller-'God's rotweiller'...we expect you, at least, Mr Nelson, to be Gord's rotweiller ( but in the hostile sense!)

strapworld

a labour supporter sent me this from Alan Johnson!!

From: Alan Johnson
: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: Mr 10 Per Cent

Dear..

Today the Tories finally admitted just how much they want to cut from our public services. I’m writing so that you have all the facts because we need to get this message out there in our communities up and down the country.

I think a lot of people listening to the BBC this morning will have been shocked when they heard David Cameron’s health spokesman Andrew Lansley stating that the Tories would make 10 per cent spending cuts in the vast majority of government departments. It wasn’t a gaffe – even though Mr Lansley seems to have gone to ground at the minute, he hasn’t been sacked for revealing the truth about the Tories’ plans.

I’ve only been Home Secretary for a few days, but I can already see what an impact a 10 per cent cut in that budget would have. Looking at the figures in my department, it would mean front line police officers would be subject to real cuts next year, leaving our streets much less safe. And I’m sure there would be similar risks when those kinds of cuts hit public transport or the skills and science budgets.

Labour’s investment in police officers and community support officers is vital to making our streets safer. Since 1997 there are over 14,000 more police officers and nearly 16,000 community support officers. We now have 3,600 neighbourhood policing teams across the country - one for every community.

We know that there is no appetite in this country for cuts that would undermine the fight against crime. It’s up to everyone in our party – MPs, ministers, activists and trade unionists – to make sure that we get this message out to the country.

It's time to tell David Cameron - Mr 10 Per Cent - that no one wants his Tory cuts.

Best wishes
Alan

Bob Jones

I think we're being unfair on Brown. He's not lying ... he believes it all this to be true, it's sad.

Forget voting him out at an election, he should be sectioned now!

PlatoSays

Well said, and also the interweb does tend to appeal to pendant geeks who will unpick every last flaw in an argument.

From AV, STV, recall, tax/spend, NICE stats etc

And what a good thing that is too.

The sooner that our elected representatives realise that the wisdom of crowds and online experts can debunk their lies, the better democracy will be.

Moraymint

Thank God, there's now half-a-chance that Brown's been rumbled. I don't know about my fellow citizens, but Brown's constant, bare-faced, unashamed, in-your-face, f**k-you lying was beginning to wear me down a bit. Made worse by the Tories complete inability to land punches in response.

This article and recent events could, just could, be the beginning of Brown's denouement. Let's hope so. The guy is a sandwich short of a picnic and it scares me to death to think that he's our very own home grown dictator.

Anand

This cannot be fought outside westminster. Cameron will need to grow a pair and start calling the Prime Mentalist on his bullshit. And get every shadow cabinet member to do likewise.

And keep repeating it, its the only way.

Cameron is gonna have to get his hands dirty to expose Brown's lies

Simon Stephenson

Fraser

What will Brown do next?

1. I think he'll be fully aware that this cuts brouhaha has ONLY happened because there were some figures published in the Budget. He'll be asking for details of the timing of ALL unavoidable announcements that must be made over the next 6 months, and building up a store of contingeny arrangements whereby he can massively divert the news agenda on the days in question. Super sophisticated Jo Moores, with the 9/11 equivalents prepared in advance, just in case.

2. As I wrote yesterday, he'll start the ball rolling with the idea that cuts will probably not be necessary, because the recovery in the economy is going to be quicker and more momentous than has previously been feared. I think this process has already been started - there are a vast number of positive, green shoots, recession over, articles that have started to appear in the press almost overnight. For heaven's sake, even Edmund Conway was at it yesterday!*

3. He'll start to flood the media with non-disprovable innuendo about his opponents. One after the other, short-lived misrepresentations will appear with the sole purpose of diminishing the standing of anyone who he fears might get in his way. I suspect this already goes on from his bunker, but I think it will be doubled and redoubled over the period up to the Election - after all, he's got unlimited resources to do so - who's going to worry about the Civil Service being frog-marched into his camp?

How's that for starters?

*http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/5497590/The-recession-may-be-over-but-the-pain-has-just-begun.html

Paul

Brilliant again Fraser. You are really changing the game yourself on this one, never mind the other bloggers

DM

Keep going Fraser, your country needs you.

Catinthehat

Can you link to Channel Four’s Fact Check and your "Brownie series" please?

Not the usual biased poster

Fraser, you messed up by letting the Tories cost cutting out of the bag. All it looks like now is you trying to get back in Daves good books by attacking Labour again,and again, and again....I am sure after a few more tissue filling PMQ reports you will be back in Daves special club soon.

Darcy

Excellent article, and, they have no where to run. Over, finished, lets move forward. Socialism...what is good for some is only dictated by others.

John Page

I wish I could agree. But Brown's repeated mainstream lies will bludgeon many more people than will read Fraser's elegant exposés.

The Tories really are amateur. Higher state spending means higher taxes. State spending is wasteful already - Brown wants to waste more of your money. Taxes are already high - Brown will put them up further.

Tories need standard one liner rebuttals. Waste and tax are two good themes.

But they don't seem to be up to it. Lansley can't even remember if education is ring-fenced or not. If he can't even hold that in his head, how can we expect him to implement a vision for the huge NHS?

The green wimp is relatively speaking a dilettanté.

chris

Fraser, it's good that you are no longer in disgrace for originally digging this out!
However, it is a pity that the newspapers and tv cannot do intelligent journalism properly.
It doesn't seem to be a story until they get some good headlines - like 'Brown is a liar'.
What's wrong with - 'Labour Budget means 10% spending cuts once health is ringfenced'.
I remember there was a lot about efficiency savings in the budget. What was that all about?

Disorghanised1

I wish I had your faith in the electorate Fraser. The Labour spin machine knows that for every lie they tell there are 100 clones who will repeat them. Look at the non-politcal blogs on the BBC for example.
Those of us who point out the inconsistencies are shouted down. (Less so nowadays, but now it's all America's fault.)

Pat

Plus the fact that Brown's now established record as a liar makes it very difficult for people to believe him. And that can be repeated from here to eternity with no diminution in credibility.

Paul

People possibly gave NuLab the benefit of the doubt last time. They voted for Blair, thinking that they would get Brown, and assumed that he was the nice one. Well, everyone now knows that he has been at the heart of the rot all along.

The idea that he is liar is sticking. The idea that he will say anything to stay in power - even to the detriment of the country - is also sticking. We should repeat these truths like a mantra.

RobC

Being a serial liar and proclaiming "son of the manse" virtues in almost the same breath must give Gordon a real chance at the title of biggest political hypocrite of all time.
I heard a rumour that they were thinking of concreting over his dad's last resting spot because it was turning itself over so many times it was starting starting to resemble a ploughed field.

FonyBlair

I so wish Cameron would break with Parliamentary convention and just sya it how it is, speak teh truth and just say outright...YOU ARE LYING BROWN!

This needs publicty....where is this "Hoon's" moral compass?

Keep up the good work

Nick Kaplan

I'm fairly sure it was one Joseph Goebel's who said "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." A tactic adopted and put in place to great effect by one Adolf Hitler.

Instead of Brownies perhaps we should call Brown’s lies 'Hitlerian Big Lies,' a name which I think would be far more damaging to those that insist on uttering them.

Jeremy

"...the ends justify the means."

Philosophically speaking, this is one of the great falsehoods of the Left.

The ends do not justify the means. Rather, the ends are the consequence of the means. The means become the ends. You cannot build Utopia on a pile of other peoples' bodies, and nor can you build the truth on a pile of lies. It doesn't work that way.

I do wish they would learn this simple - but also fundamental - lesson.

Catosays

For the umpteenth time will you please stop calling them 'Brownies'?. They are Lies. Lies, Lies. Can you not get this into your head?

lawrence greek

Can someone please cut and post Faisal's demolition job please? Get the link up and we will spread it.

Chris

Nick Kaplan, Google Godwin's Law. There's ways and ways of getting the point across. DC saying 'You're a liar' in the House wouldn't work; it would be spun (not altogether wrongly) as petulance, desperation and rudeness. Confronting GB with his own statements, showing politely why they're false, and inviting him to comment (he can't think on his feet) - now that's another matter.

TGF UKIP

Nick has it spot on. Indeed, pre 97 the two New Labour mantras were "Tory lies" and and "Tory sleaze" and I have been arguing for more than a year that Cameron, if he were serious, should confront Gordon's multiple untruths and use the "L" word.

Unfortunately for you Tories, though, Dave and the Mekon have this master strategy of pursuing The Woman's Own vote which requires that Dave maintain "that nice young man" image which precludes him from properly attacking Brown.

Either that or he's just a useless opposition politician - take your Tory pick.

What is quite clear though in this present episode is that the hidden Labour cuts were spotted by the young lady researcher at the IFS and highlighted on this website immediately after this years Budget. Ever since which time Fraser has been exhorting Dave to take the fight to Brown on this very issue. Which would, of course, enabled the Cameron Greens to then be on the front foot on the issue.

As ever, Dave shrank from any such confrontation especially as it involved economics and figures which manifestly terrify Dave, and now Gordon has been able to seize the initiative thanks to the clown Lansley.

And of course Gordon will continue to repeat the lie and of course he'll get away with it and of course it will succeed. Brown and Mandelson are bare knuckle political streetfighters who get raw political propaganda. Dave and the Mekon are clueless.

Nicholas

'Hitlerian Big Lies"

Bit of a mouthful and not very catchy. How about "Goebelies" which could also be a verb to "Goebelise"?

The actual quote from Goebels pretty much sums up the ethos of Brown and Labour:-

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

TomTom

What pray is Net Investment in Newspeak ? I understand Gross Capital Formation and Depreciation but do not understand concepts such as Investment which do not include PFI.

I do not know how the balance sheet looks. Normally Leasing whether Capital or Operating appears either on Income Statement or Balance Sheet or both...but I do not know where PFI appears in these tables. Since headteachers are paying lease-rent to HSBC etc for their buildings they do so out of revenues provided by the Treasury...yet that current spending is buying Capital PPE....so the whole lot becomes confusing.

I doubt schools are running accounting systems to decide whether there is a Capital Lease behind PFI-BSF projects because I dioubt they can understand the contracts with the balloon-mortgage structure.

So isn't this all very Brobdinag

Naomi Muse

Brown is delusional without doubt. His current displacement activity is that for electoral reform but not for reform of elections or of how PMQs are conducted. Another sticky plaster displacement activity to take our and parliament's eyes and energy off the ball that parliament has almost nothing on the statute books.

We are all sick of politicians who say 'It was a good decision.' when it patently was not. Brown's record, known to all, would have got any CEO or Finance Director off the corporate payroll, so we need the same rules for politicians as for corporate leaders. Lying in the accounts (no cuts), raiding the pension pot (almost destroying the UK's pension plans), bad investment (buying Yen when on the way down), selling the corporate assets for a cheapo price (the gold), misleading the shareholders, (lying to the electorate)- to name but a few, all adds up to all of us wanting to have this man stripped of his position, pension, power and placed in a small boat off Sheerness, without a paddle. The best asset he has is Sarah and her involvement the greatest mystery.

oldtimer

Based on the Johnson letter, quoted above, this is the new party line.

Yvette Cooper was at it this morning on Sky News, spouting on about 10% cuts. This time the presenter got back quoting the IFS that the cuts were implicit in the forecasts. She then waffled on about the uncertainty of future numbers, conveniently ignoring the fact that they were her own government`s numbers.

No doubt the reason Brown wanted Balls as Chancellor of the Exchequer was to enable him to produce another phoney set of data to make a phoney case.

This is Goebbels style propaganda writ large. I have quoted him before on these pages and I will quote him again - like all propaganda, it bears constant repetition.

Goebbels said:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”

“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”

Maybe, just maybe, this time the media is forewarned.

disgusted

"Brown can lie as easily as he breathes."

Brilliant!

R

I agree entirely with the view widely expressed here that it's time to use this unparliamentary language more widely. The Conservatives (but probably not Cameron) should publicly and repeatedly call Brown a liar.

The game of repeating a message until it sinks in is not one that only Brown can play: the difference is that this message is actually true.

David Bouvier

Nick Kaplan - please don't mention the war. If you really must then just call it Brown's Big Lie. We get the reference without being slapped around the face with it. More than that looks crass.

"No the usual biased poster" - I haven't laughed that much for a while. Did you happen to catch a news programme last night - anyone would have done I think. LABOUR LIES. Slam-dunk.

FonyBlair - it is a high-risk strategy to cause an incident in parliament especially when, so far, the spinning is running our way.

As for the incredulous media reaction to Brown's lie, I find myself wondering if this is not a consequence of the sick-making moment he swore on his fathers reputation that he would be honest just prior to telling a bare-faced transparent lie about wanting to replace Darling.

Perhaps with hindsight that press conference will be his "jump the shark" moment when the lobby decided enough was enough.

PS - huge kudos to Fraser (and the IFS) for breaking this. It has really changed the terms of debate for the better.

PPS - What is interesting to consider is - had your original post not been about Conservative plans, then Labour would not have given the story legs. It is Labour's pushing it out that led them to over-reach themselves, and make themselves vulnerable to the 'judo-throw' they seem to be experiencing at the moment.

Chris H

Q. Who said this?

“When you lie, tell big lies. In the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation… in the primitive simplicity of their minds… more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie… they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously…The grossly impudent lie always leave traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down”.

A. Adolf Hitler - "Mein Kampf"

So our current Supreme Leader is just practising what the leader of another socialist party pioneered in the 1930s.

Please let us have a GE, before the current sinister bunch of apparatchics change the rules so they stay in power for ever

Naomi Muse

The best way to counter the 'Labour investment v Tory Cuts' claims is to say that Labour is going to continue in its profligate ways, which got us into this financial mess anyway....don't forget the clarion call 'End of Boom and Bust' which now looks more like a Parthian shot into the heart of the electorate with the Lord High Everything Else Mandelson (with grateful thanks to W S Gilbert) at the tiller into what can only be a totally becalmed state likened to the Bermuda Triangle of the next 12 months if there by no election.

Grumpy Old Man

How about, "Gordo's Porkies"? Neatly combines 2 of the hottest topics in Westminster.

Frazer is one of the diminishing number of journalsts who actually know something about what they are writing. Most, including the odious Portman from the Barclaygraph, are merely copy-takers incapable of analysing the nonsense they are spoonfed.

Lord Monkington-Smythe

Brown's cabinet don't believe the lies either. By saying "The Prime Minister has made it clear that.." or "Gordon has made it clear that..." before delivering a whopper on TV, they can internally disassociate themselves from what they are saying. It makes the job of lying for Brown much easier, because they are subconsciously not taking responsibility for the lie.

Merlin

I googled "Gordon Brown lies" the other day but there just wasn't time to read all the results! Interesting that the phrase came up as one that has been commonly searched too.

logdon

And yet the BBC still promote his bloody son of the manse mantra ad nauseum.

Last night a trail came up for yet another panel polling/focus group/political analysis type show.

The clip showed one of the panellists telling the group that, yes she still believed that Gordon was an honest man.

Whatever planet this delusional woman has been living on for the last two months beggars belief, yet the BBC chose her soundbite for the promo.

It is perfectly obvious that her wooly take on our lying leader was not some random choice but yet more BBC bias.

That this corruption is so blatant and no doubt airily wafted off as if of no account by the Beeboids shows how far the Marxist stranglehold has infected public institutions and that the lies, are in their minds, perfectly justified by the ends.

The ends being entirely in sync with Brown's raison detre of clinging to power no matter what, and the lies taken straight from the Brown book of political modus operandi.

We, in effect have been infiltrated by a bunch of lying leftard socialists whose self regard elevates them to sainthood but in reality are no better than schpeiling spivs who would stoop to any level to gain advantage.

The expenses scandal has lifted a partial lid but the rot goes much deeper and it is up to the MSM to clean up it’s act or suffer the consequences of irrelevance.

My utter gratitude is to the Telegraph for having the balls and authority to pull off their stunning coup, but it’s the online media which has carried the torch of total honesty and transparency.

Without sounding too gushingly fawning I believe that the Spectator has aided in this unlifting of the dank rock of disinformation and selective secrecy.

This site cross links with plenty of other so called right wing blogs. Guido, Brogan, Old Holborn, Plato, Hannan, Finkelstein and Dizzy spring to mind and even the left wingers salute the way they act in tandem and a spirit of co-operation in getting to the dark heart of the ongoing corruption of our green and pleasant land.

logdon

And yet the BBC still promote his bloody son of the manse mantra ad nauseum.

Last night a trail came up for yet another panel polling/focus group/political analysis type show.

The clip showed one of the panellists telling the group that, yes she still believed that Gordon was an honest man.

Whatever planet this delusional woman has been living on for the last two months beggars belief, yet the BBC chose her soundbite for the promo.

It is perfectly obvious that her wooly take on our lying leader was not some random choice but yet more BBC bias.

That this corruption is so blatant and no doubt airily wafted off as if of no account by the Beeboids shows how far the Marxist stranglehold has infected public institutions and that the lies, are in their minds, perfectly justified by the ends.

The ends being entirely in sync with Brown's raison detre of clinging to power no matter what, and the lies taken straight from the Brown book of political modus operandi.

We, in effect have been infiltrated by a bunch of lying leftard socialists whose self regard elevates them to sainthood but in reality are no better than schpeiling spivs who would stoop to any level to gain advantage.

The expenses scandal has lifted a partial lid but the rot goes much deeper and it is up to the MSM to clean up it’s act or suffer the consequences of irrelevance.

My utter gratitude is to the Telegraph for having the balls and authority to pull off their stunning coup, but it’s the online media which has carried the torch of total honesty and transparency.

Without sounding too gushingly fawning I believe that the Spectator has aided in this unlifting of the dank rock of disinformation and selective secrecy.

This site cross links with plenty of other so called right wing blogs. Guido, Brogan, Old Holborn, Plato, Hannan, Finkelstein and Dizzy spring to mind and even the left wingers salute the way they act in tandem and a spirit of co-operation in getting to the dark heart of the ongoing corruption of our green and pleasant land.

logdon

And yet the BBC still promote his bloody son of the manse mantra ad nauseum.

Last night a trail came up for yet another panel polling/focus group/political analysis type show.

The clip showed one of the panellists telling the group that, yes she still believed that Gordon was an honest man.

Whatever planet this delusional woman has been living on for the last two months beggars belief, yet the BBC chose her soundbite for the promo.

It is perfectly obvious that her wooly take on our lying leader was not some random choice but yet more BBC bias.

That this corruption is so blatant and no doubt airily wafted off as if of no account by the Beeboids shows how far the Marxist stranglehold has infected public institutions and that the lies are in their minds, perfectly justified by the ends.

The ends being entirely in sync with Brown's raison detre of clinging to power no matter what, and the lies taken straight from the Brown book of political modus operandi.

We, in effect have been infiltrated by a bunch of lying socialists whose self regard elevates them to sainthood but in reality are no better than schpeiling spivs who would stoop to any level to gain advantage.

The expenses scandal has lifted a partial lid but the rot goes much deeper and it is up to the MSM to clean up it’s act or suffer the consequences of irrelevance.

My utter gratitude is to the Telegraph for having the balls and authority to pull off their stunning coup, but it’s the online media which has carried the torch of total honesty and transparency.

Without sounding too gushingly fawning I believe that the Spectator has aided in this unlifting of the dank rock of disinformation and selective secrecy.

This site cross links with plenty of other so called right wing blogs. Guido, Brogan, Old Holborn, Plato, Hannan, Finkelstein and Dizzy spring to mind and even the left wingers salute the way they act in tandem and a spirit of co-operation in getting to the dark heart of the ongoing corruption of our green and pleasant land.

logdon

And yet the BBC still promote his bloody son of the manse mantra ad nauseum.

Last night a trail came up for yet another panel polling/focus group/political analysis type show.

The clip showed one of the panellists telling the group that, yes she still believed that Gordon was an honest man.

Whatever planet this delusional woman has been living on for the last two months beggars belief, yet the BBC chose her soundbite for the promo.

It is perfectly obvious that her wooly take on our lying leader was not some random choice but yet more BBC bias.

That this corruption is so blatant and no doubt airily wafted off as if of no account by the Beeboids shows how far the Marxist stranglehold has infected public institutions and that the lies are in their minds, perfectly justified by the ends.

The ends being entirely in sync with Brown's raison detre of clinging to power no matter what, and the lies taken straight from the Brown book of political modus operandi.

We, in effect have been infiltrated by a bunch of lying socialists whose self regard elevates them to sainthood but in reality are no better than schpeiling spivs who would stoop to any level to gain advantage.

The expenses scandal has lifted a partial lid but the rot goes much deeper and it is up to the MSM to clean up it’s act or suffer the consequences of irrelevance.

My utter gratitude is to the Telegraph for having the balls and authority to pull off their stunning coup, but it’s the online media which has carried the torch of total honesty and transparency.

Without sounding too gushingly fawning I believe that the Spectator has aided in this unlifting of the dank rock of disinformation and selective secrecy.

This site cross links with plenty of other so called right wing blogs. Guido, Brogan, Old Holborn, Plato, Hannan, Finkelstein and Dizzy spring to mind and even the left wingers salute the way they act in tandem and a spirit of co-operation in getting to the dark heart of the ongoing corruption of our green and pleasant land.

Victor, NW Kent

Last night, Hain on Question Time and this morning Cooper on Sky News, dropping "Tory Cuts" and "10% Cuts" into each sentence.

We need two word slogans as well - "Labour Waste", "Labour Mess", "Labour's Debt" to repeat ad nauseam.

Publius

I don't know who Mr Nelson is trying to persuade. Colleagues in the media perhaps; or a few politicians in the Westminster village? And if so, then good, because they're dense enough.

But I agree with those who say that the rather prissy term "Brownies" is hopeless if the intention is to get the message out further.

If Brown is a liar, then it needs to be said, loud and clear, time and time again. "Mr Brown, you are a liar."

And this bullshit about calling spending "investment" needs to be knocked on the head too.

Fox in a box

David,

your "jumping the shark" comment encapsulates the feeling I had watching that press conference.

I felt that you could practically see the wind changing direction and the lobby realising that the stench was emanating from from the cadaver propped up before them. Reading the press over the last two days clearly shows a shift in reporting, particularly of this latest, and particularly stinky lie about "investment" vs cuts.

C4 News

Thanks for the interest in Faisal Islam's report - the video is available online here:
http://bit.ly/Kwb8z

Nick Kaplan

Chris;

The Wiki article on Godwin's law says the following: "The corollaries of the law would presumably not apply to discussions covering genocide, propaganda."

Since we are clearly discussing Brown's propaganda and how closely it matches Hitler's own use of lies I think the comparison is fair.

Wily Trout

They had a focus group on Newsnight last night. Most of them still thought Brown was a good person and a strong leader who had made a great job of being chancellor. But even the strongest die-hard supporters agreed that he should not continue to be PM.

Chris H

Nick K,

I was completely unaware of Godwin's Law - very interesting.

But as you say, under the rules of the law maybe my comparison was legitimate.

At the risk of boring erudite CH readers witless, may I also refer to another couple of snippets from AH:

“Only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an idea on the memory of a crowd”.

and

“Above all, never hesitate, never qualify what you say, never concede an inch to the other side, paint all your contrasts in black and white”

Examples of this behaviour from GB are legion, particularly at PMQs. e.g "do nothing Tories" "no more boom and bust" etc endlessly repeated.

And the latest one "labour investment" v. "Tory cuts"

I will sign off now. I feel slightly nauseous just writing about his behaviour.

Bring on the general election.

David Belchamber

That press conference was fascinating; when Brown tried to claim that there had been no last minute change of plan about Alistair Darling, you could sense the man's credibility drifting away. Anyone who has read Le Tartuffe will recall the way the mask of piety is stripped away, layer by layer, until, as in Brown's case, the loathsome hypocrite is eventually revealed.
You have performed a great service, Fraser; keep it up. What about getting someone to research figures showing the true levels of unemployment, compared to 1997, inflation, government debt etc?
What about an expose on PFIs?

Alex

This is the first government of modern times for which power is the end and not the means. Other governments, including the Tories under Thatcher and Major, saw power as an instrument for improving the country by imposing a socio-political agenda.

For this lot the only thing that matters is power, pure power.

Publius

"Say what you can, my false o'erweighs your true."

-- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

Adam

I love it when Fraser throws the Brownies back in the face of the 'Clunking Chump'*.
I don't want to sound racist but the Scottish accent really does make Fraser's counterattacks all the better.
As the Velvet Underground sang:

"I'll be your mirror, reflect what you are, in case you don't know..'

*© Douglas Carswell MP(I think)

T .England

Most people are only to aware that we have to tighten our belts to almost strangulation point if we have any sort of chance of removing some of the debt that our children will inherit, I believe most people will be more than happy to do so because that is what any sensible, caring parent would want, after all, who would want to burden their own child? How many parents go without so their child doesn’t have to?

When Brown says the Tories are going to cut public spending I believe the public are thinking yep, great idea but cut the right things.
Labour have been great at wasting our money, from failed IT projects to pointless endless translation of documents for people coming here to claim benefits, these are the cuts most of the public would like to see & I believe they would also like to see even more cutting with things that aren’t politically correct, like bucket loads of cash going over seas when we need every penny over here.

The public wants value for money more than ever before, Labour aren’t capable of that because it just isn’t their way, the Tories should making it clear that Labour telling people the Tories want to cut things is their way of telling people Labour hasn’t learnt a single lesson from all the things that have happened recently & just want to continue spending & borrowing as recklessly as they have always done.

Brown is unpopular & out of touch, as he has always been, we must not forget that his delusion about no more boom & bust is the delusional mind set he still has, only now he believes he can turn bust to boom if you don’t cut back spending & borrow like there’s no tomorrow.

Browns lies will be seen through because they are so transparent & like you say, we have the internet as our magnify glass to examine them.

perdix

Even Paddy Ashdown on D Politics said that Brown's assertions were "intentionally intended to mislead", then thinking he might have been impolite, he backtracked on "intentionally". The reason that Brown gets away with it is that so much of the MSM want to support Liebour and too many "journalist" are lazy "copy-takers" who will go for a sound-bite without any analysis in order to stir up a cheap headline.

TGF UKIP

All this learned discussion on Godwins Law etc and the evident research into the mechanics of propaganda is fascinating and potentially most useful

Perhaps, Fraser, you might like to pass it on to your Best mate and his best mate The Mekon.

On the other hand, though, perhaps you'd be wasting your time.

john miller

Well, I did comment the other day that people should not use euphemisms when describing Brown's lies, and I guess using the word 16 times pretty much fits the bill.

Jeremy Crick

The best way for the Conservatives to counter Brown's "Labour investment vs Tory Cuts" line would be for Cameron to relentlessly attack Brown on his "lack of candour" over this issue at PMQs (he can't say Brown's lying, in the House of Commons).

He should preface each question with a reminder to Brown of his pledge (at his post-election news conference) to be candid.

Each question itself (following an outline of facts and figures - ie, amount of money paid in interest charges on nation's debt more than Education Budget) should not be rhetorical but require Brown to provide a real answer.

One major benefit of leading on this topic - it would forestall Brown using his tedious, "No questions on policy" reply.

Landsley's interview last week, although accurate, gave the wrong impression. Cameron should attack on this issue to demonstrate that the Conservatives are on the right side of the dividing line.

THE ESSEX BOYS

We are regularly disappointed that Journalists waste the opportunity of putting Brown on the spot at his No 10 press conferences. It needs one of them to break rank and call the PM a LIAR...on-air and to his face.
There is ample current opportunity as they were aghast at his denial on the Darling/Balls issue as most are on the '10% cuts'.
Come on the 4th Estate - show us your gonads!

hadrian

I think all the guff about 'the green shoots of recovery' that they'll be sedulously peddling for the next nine months will turn out to be largely irrelevant, as Michael Portillo pointed out on 'This Week' on Thursday. The full brunt of the recession is still to be endured, and as Michael P. noted there is evey likelihood Broon will have to up taxes into the bargain. Combine this with general disenchantment with Gordo himself and the comic capers of Labour MPs, ministers and ex ministers ( Hazel Blears' excruciating performance of 'mea culpa' surely finishes her off well and truly as anyone who can be taken seriously?!) Incidentally seeing the Headmistress-in-chief, Harriet Harperson at No 10 expressing her usual patronising guff, this time on 'poor Hazel' was enough to make us puke!

sinbad

johnson from post office to
home office .what next?PM
what a joke.

Andy

Brown lost all credibility for me with his 10p tax "cut". Once a liar always a liar. Now if his lips are moving, I know he's not telling the truth.