Not good news, Darling

TGF UKIP

Fraser, given that polling now demonstrates the public recognize that a large chunk of the vast amounts of additional taxation that has been raised has been wasted, and given the Government foul ups of the past few weeks, don't you think that for the two parties to be only neck and neck on the central issue of managing the economy, could be construed as a devastating public commentary on the Opposition and in particular its Treasury team?

Fraser Nelson

TGF, good point. I blogged this while I was shopping in Ikea and my blood pressure had been raised by the effects of queuing in that hellhole. But I think this is the first time since Black Wednesday that ICM has shown Labour not to have a lead on economic competence. Anthony Wells is the oracle: he has some more analysis here http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/1075

perdix

Hi UKIP (political propagandist)- another stab at the Tories! You are wrong. It shows Labour have lost their reputation for competence. By definition the Opposition, not being in charge of the economy, cannot demonstrate theirs in running it!

Napoleon

Fraser, Do you think that Labour will lose the next GE?and do you believe that Brown will be Labour leader in the GE?

Teesbridge

I suspect that Darling & Brown have slid past Laurel & Hardy (who were, at least, perceived as talented exponents of their craft) and are headed deep into the territory of the Krankies.

TGF UKIP

Perdix, do you perhaps think it might also show that the Great British Public has cottoned on to the fact that on the economy there's nowt to choose between Real Labour and Blue Labour. After all haven't Dave and Boy George committed to the same levels of taxation, the same (or even increased!) levels of spending,despite the publicly acknowledged widespread waste, and declined even to indicate any re-ordering of spending priorities. Indeed, the continued neglect and underfunding of the Armed Forces seems to have become a cast in stone Tory committment.

Richard Dell

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that all parties were in favour of Britain joining the ERM, that the Conservatives under Thatcher were lukewarm on the issue, and that Labour were making strident calls for Britain to join. Against her instincts and on the urging of Nigel Lawson, Thatcher agreed to join. Britain was later forced out by powerful financial interests, opportunistically seeing the chance to make a fast buck at the expense of the Central Banks. It was not so much the Tories failure, but the poorly thought out ERM system itself and the reluctance of European Banks to support their own creature. So I get a bit fed up at the constant charge of Black Tuesday being a failure of Conservative financial competence, and the fact that the Tory party never refutes this bogus charge.

MikeStallard

I remember the good times under Ken Clarke. Don't you?
Now we are rapidly going back to 1992.
But remember, folks, "things can only get better...."

Fraser Nelson

Napoleon, right now I would say Cameron will win by a small majority at the next election (he needs an 8-point lead to any majority at all). As for Brown - he deserves to be toppled. But his awesome mafioso machine will likely destroy any rivals before they get to make a move. That is one are where he really is a world expert. Its a tragedy, really - with his penchant for ten year plans and ruthless internal politics skills he should have been born in Moscow in 1890. would have done so well in Soviet Russia.

MikeStallard

I can remember the good days under Ken Clarke, can't you? Marvellous times those. Now buried under the usual cloud of Labour lies.
Gordon Brown has sown the wind......

MikeStallard

I can remember the good times under Ken Clarke, can't you? Now buried under the usual cloud of Labour lies and spin.

Chris Cummins

Richard Dell; Britain's ejection fom the ERM occured on a Wednesday. I think Fraser Nelson's reference to Black Tuesday refers to Northern Rock. Am I right in that assumtion ?

Chris Cummins

On second thoughts, I think Black Tuesday refers to the Commons statements over the missing CD's. Whatever, it refers to Labour incompetence.

Nicholas Millman

TGF UKIP - you show a characteristic of the Lib Dems in opposition, which is to attack not the government but the main opposition party instead. That is a flawed strategy in addition to being not quite the done thing and is the principal reason why the behaviour of both parties (Lib Dem & UKIP) repels rather than attracts. Your own UKIP leader is articulate and persuasive but I want this wretched government out and will vote for the party I believe most likely to deliver that. Your sideswipes at the Conservatives are irrelevant.

Oscar Miller

Richard Dell - I think this is a very accurate description (except it was Black Wednesday - very easy to mix up the black weekdays now). Brown staunchly advocated ERM but after we crashed out he very carefully covered up his former advocacy. Since then Labour have made devastating propaganda capital out of Black Wednesday. In my view it's been the subsequent spin rather than the event itself which has so damaged the Tories, it drowned out Ken Clarkes progress with the economy - whose underlying strength Brown inherited, deceptively taking the credit for it. From now on, tho' Labour will never be able to refer to Black Wednesday without reminding everyone of their own incompetence. Osborne just needs to continue with his intelligent tax reforms, shown to such brilliant effect at the Conference, for the Conservatives to steadily pull ahead on economic competence.

http://dirtyeuropeansocialist.blogspot.com/

Labour did not cause Northern Rock. It is only due to press drivel that the public have been brainwashed into thinking it is labour's fault. Could the tories have done any better. No.

Roger Inkpen

Am I right in thinking that Christopher Fildes - late of this parish - used to refer to the day the ERM collapsed as Golden Wednesday? Cutting the ties to the differently-cycled Euro economies allowed ours to flourish, and gave the Gorgon the growth stability he could never have created himself. And yes, it is baffling that Labour in opposition called for our entry into ERM (as did the LibDems, albeit questioning the timing and rate), yet the media-unfriendly Tories have allowed themselves to be saddled with that embarrassment alone.

TGF UKIP

Fraser, given the psychological mess that Brown is, I've long been convinced that he'll crack a long time before the next two years are up. All I'm asking for is 3/1 that he doesn't lead Labour into the next election for a hundred quid. You (or anybody else) on?

Fraser Nelson

Chris, to me "Black" Tuesday and Wednesday were about presentation, not effect. The Black Tuesday of last week was when the accumulated mishaps of this government reached a critical mass. NR was its foundation (and will come back). When the HMRC discs went missing, the elastic of the electorate's patience (and open-minded approach to a new PM) snapped. A sample of this can be seen on the comments of blogs that day. I doubt the lost discs will lose anyone a penny. What matters is that several million voters are worried, and fizzing mad. Black Wednesday was similarly about presentation/perception, not economic effect. In effect it was a liberation, the date from which our current economic growth started. ERM had Labour's full, enthusiastic approval. But Labour brilliantly made folk forget this and cariactured Black Wednesday as being a Tory-made disaster. To me, it was the day when we pulled out of the nosedive which would (had Kinnock won in 1992) led us to the Eurozone and probably the single currency.

Napoleon

Fraser, "he should have been born in Moscow in 1890. would have done so well in Soviet Russia." I doubt Stalin would let him do anything. Maybe his fate would be the same as Trotsky!

TGF UKIP

Nicholas Millman, I am not a UKIP member though I almost certainly will be voting for and financially supporting UKIP at the next General Election. As a provincial, small "c", eurosceptic conservative there is simply nowhere else for me to go. Had David Davis been elected Tory Party leader in 2005, I don't doubt that I would still be an enthusiastic supporter of the Tories. Instead, the Tories allowed themselves to be manipulated by the London media (Speccie in the vanguard) into electing Dave. The resulting politically correct, metropolitan, hyper environmentalist, progressive party is completely alien to me and substantively little different to the Labour and Liberal parties I detest. However, I must also admit that given The Spectator's posh High Tory credentials and given my background of chippy ex scouser of ineradicable C2 instincts, I do enjoy my bit of needling and, old boy, quite revel in doing "not quite the done thing."

Oscar Miller

Given that "black Wednesday" was actually golden - setting us on course for years of prosperity - why on earth don't Conservative spokespeople set the record straight? Why do they allow Labour to get away with their highly spun version of events? Why don't they challenge them? Jack Straw was at it again on Marr's Sunday show asserting that "Black Wednesday" was the "personal" responsiblity of Tory leaders, while datagate was 'nothing to do with them guv'. A piece of tosh from start to finish that got replayed on the World this Weekend. But the Conservatives never refute it. I just don't get it.

Max Kaye

Forget Black Tuesday - it's looking like a Black November (with a nearly a week yet to go).

Oscar Miller

Following my previous post the top story at BBC News online is currently 'Labour woes no Black Wednesday' - puffing Jack Straw's line in his interview with Andrew Marr. But no mention given to David Davis' excellent interivew.

Nicholas Millman

TGF UKIP - "However, I must also admit that given The Spectator's posh High Tory credentials and given my background of chippy ex scouser of ineradicable C2 instincts, I do enjoy my bit of needling and, old boy, quite revel in doing "not quite the done thing.""
Ah, your admission says it all.

M Dowding

I'm with Oscar on the above. The BBC is an utter disgrace. Straw and Alexander were woeful and so full of spin, I wonder they didn't spin all the way up that cretin Marr's unattractive orofices!

Tiberius

The problem for the Tories and Black Wednesday is that it came to represent the all-consuming (if undeserved) feeling of uselessness that was John Major's government. (Remember Max Hastings printing "For God's sake go" on the front page of the Telegraph?) If latter day Tories try to defend it, they also have to cover the recession of 1990-92, negative equity, David Mellor and co. and the various scandals and sleaze, the Maastricht rebellion, and Norman Lamont's unhelpful "je ne regrette rien". Best to let the fullness of time take its course, I reckon.

ExPat

Norman Lamont got a peerage and is no doubt raking in various attendance allowances from that plus emoluments from different directorships. I remember sitting on my doorstep and sobbing when the 15% interest rate was announced on the 6 o'clock news after I got home from work. My credit rating is still affected by my subsequent repossession. If I vote Conservative now it's only because they offer the only viable alternative to Gordon Brown who like Ed and Yvette Balls will never be poor no matter how badly they do. If there was a reasonable alternative to both of them I would go for that. It was an all-consuming feeling of uselessness that pervaded the Major government and it was totally deserved. And it's a feeling I have sensed about every Conservative party leadership ever since. From Hague to IDS to Howard and now Cameron, who has promised to match Labour spending plans. Labour is spending money it simply hasn't got. It has always been beyond me how politicians never understand the effect that their political ideals have on the ordinary voter. From ERM and the 15% interest rate to Brown's pension rip off to the idiocy of personal data being essentially bunged in the nearest letter box. And the blatant lie that is the current rate of inflation. Don't they look at gas & electricity bills or council tax bills? And now we're paying for schools in 'oil-rich' Nigeria. Rant over. Sorry.