The argument that Mandelson lost, might be the argument that guarantees that Labour loses the next election

Jonathan Cook

I'm not sure that is going to bother Brown and Balls.

After the Iraq War debacle, they twigged that they could lie and cover up anything.

They will keep on banging away at their lie. The only question that remains, is do the public want cuts or increased spending?

Sally Chatterjee

Blair could triangulate but Brown does the opposite, he often seeks to polarise debate.

James

Brown, on the wrong side of truth. I refuse to believe it. The Dear Leader never gets it wrong. Oh I can't even be bothered to keep up the irony. Watching PMQs showed we have a government beyond irony, parody or satire. Good job there's nothing major happening in the world these days....

Rosie

Even if Brown/Balls are converted to this line, they cannot possibly U-turn now, and their only option is to continue to be economical with the truth and hope people will believe them. I don't!

Simon Stephenson

I think you and Politics Home are falling for what Labour's planners want you to believe. The chess game that they're playing is at a far higher level that you are used to playing.

What's the point of doing the right thing now? The public is so disenchanted with politicians following the expenses scandal that this is bound to reflect badly on the governing party. Labour can't advantageously hold a General Election until autumn at the very earliest. So there's a window of opportunity to gain advantage from painting a picture of incompetence and chicanery now, only for this all to be turned round by a shining bright new leader, with shining bright new policies, in a few months time.

This at least sounds like a strategy, and I think it's about the best chance Labour has got of being re-elected. What Brown and Balls are doing can't possibly, in itself, be a winning strategy, and however much I detest what each of them stands for, I wouldn't call either of them stupid.

Tiberius

Imagine Brown as a WWII prisoner.

Instead of stuffing it up the enemy by craft and tunnelling out, he's got to go the direct route. Like a demented lunatic, he's got to try and scale the razor wire, screaming the equivalent of "Tory Cuts" at the machine gun crews as they fire at his pathetic figure tangled in the mesh.

Bob Jones

When ever Brown tries politics, he fails. He failed with the 10p tax, he failed with the election-that-never-was, he failed with the Ghurkas. When Brown tries to "wrong foot the Tories", which is his raison d'être, he failes.

David

Labour don't cut though.

What I mean is that it seems to me the consensus is that a centre right approach is currently needed. Mandelson is pragmatic-he will do what policy it takes to be on the right side of the argument. Brown is tribally Labour at the end of the day, and just can't do it. Mandelson is much a like a traditional Tory in his pragmatic approach.

Steve York

Yes but watching the Labour MPs behind Brown on PMQ today and you would never believe any of them were in anything but total agreement with Brown and his Labour Investments rhetoric.

I find it completely unbelievable. When the truth is really out with Joe Public I have a feeling it could be really nasty for Brown ... never mind a broken window like Goodwin, the crowd could literally be baying for blood.

Moraymint

Why would anyone expect Brown and Balls to place themselves anywhere other than on the wrong side of truth, public opinion and expert consensus?

These two guys have spent more than a decade living in a dark, alter-world of their own, unrecognisable to most ordinary, decent Brits. Ironically, it's only been since Brown muscled his way into the limelight that, er, the limelight has exposed him and all of his hangers-on ... in glorious technicolour.

The longer that Brown, Balls and the other gangsters clinging grimly to the seat of power stay in the spotlight, the more us poor bloody citizens will see them for all that they are: shysters.

It's fun, in a weird sort of way, watching Brown and the Labour Party hurtle towards oblivion.

dearieme

Less truthful than Lord Mortgagefraud - what a boast.

Jhill

Mandelson has been hawked around the press as some kind of puppetmaster. If he cannot convince Brown and his Martin Borman acolyte of the need to implement and acknowledge cuts in public expenditure, then just how influential is he? People in this country are not stupid - most people are having to trim their lifestyles. If Mandelson cannot get it across that the government needs and is expected to do the same then he is a chocolate teapot. What did he return to government for? To shoehorn the Euro in and get Blair the EU presidency? Is electoral success in 2010 irrelevant for him?

john problem

"a dividing line that places them on the wrong side of the truth, public opinion and the expert consensus. Quite an achievement."
The only one, actually. Apart from the economy, the health service, education, crime, infrastructure, broadband, um, honesty, transparency, et al. Well, that's what they're saying abroad. If it gets any worse, the UN will step in.

Lance Grundy

But New Labour have been "on the wrong side of the truth, public opinion and the expert consensus" since 1997.

What is "quite an achievement" is that this incredibly nasty, left-wing, anti-British political party is still here at all and, considering the damage they have done, still polling reasonably well amongst the dwindling proportion of the population who can be bothered voting.

Meanwhile Britain continues to go to rack and ruin as the Left's ratchet tightens another, then another, notch.

Where are the policies we need to break the ratchet and restore Britain?

Cottage Pie

It was fascinating to watch David Cameron taunting Brown at PMQs with the accusation of 10% tax cuts that Labour on its own calculations is intending to introduce. Andrew Lansley has finally allowed the Conservatives to shake off the shackles that have bound the party for the past decade and no doubt Cameron will begin to reap political dividends if he continues this line of attack. Tax cuts can no longer be used as ammunition by the Labour party. Gordon Brown will just keep on firing blanks and will lose any remaining credibility that he has with the electorate. He just doesn't realise that this is not a repeat of 1997 or 2001.

Verity

Simon Stephenson has nailed it in the first paragraph of his post above. I would differ in preference for outcome, though, in preferring that Labour win albeit stumbling on its knees. Let's get them in long enough to ditch David Cameron, the most bizarre "Leader" of the Tories ever.

Lance Grundy, you have my attention. I agree with every word. There are no "policies" as you require. Simply a queue of people lined up for their turn, jostling and giggling and saying "Sshhhh!".

At the head of the queue is David Cameron. No policies. No outrage, except actored in, scripted by others, for PMQs. And ever dafter qualifications for people to stand for the Conservatives. Now he has lowered the bar to anyone who feels like it, really. To get popular. Oooh, that Dave! In'e lovely!

I suggest that this year, we do not burn Guy Fawkes, but hail him.

Verity

Cottage Pie writes: "Andrew Lansley has finally allowed the Conservatives to shake off the shackles that have bound the party for the past decade ...".

Let us all hail Andrew Lansley, whoever he is. What a sport, eh?

RobC

Brown and Balls are archetypical back room boys posing as gladiators thrust into an arena full of professional swordsmen with a bottle of red ink and a quill each to defend themselves.The result at the next election will literally be a slaughter but entertaining at the same time.

David

"But New Labour have been "on the wrong side of the truth, public opinion and the expert consensus" since 1997."

That's clearly abject rubbish.

Major Plonquer

Sir,
Just a note to inform you that 'Brown-Balls-Mandelson' is actually a clever anagram of 'Blown, Smells and Baron'.
Major Plonquer
British Dailysex (Dyslexia) Society

Angry of SE1

Verity,

Please, please, PLEASE change the record!
Every single article on this site has the same comment from you on it!
Why not accept that even if you don't post we will all know what you are thinking. Anyway shouldn't you have better things to do at 3.33am.

On another matter TPA's article OMG1 is an essential read as this financially illiterate shower pull us further under an Ocean of Debt.

JONNY

'Let's get them in long enough to ditch David Cameron, the most bizarre "Leader" of the Tories ever.'

I'm afraid another wistful bout of wishful thinking from our Verity.
In the real world:
1. Brown almost certainly won't get in even by the tiniest of margins.

2. But if he did, he'd would do a PR deal with the LDs and stay for another 5 years.

3. And after that, centre left regimes for good.

4. Anway, if we get anything approaching a hung parliament Cameron is safe. The Tories would be mad to get rid of the man who brought them from nowhere to the threshold of power - and substitute him with a Vulcan.

Sorry Verity. fromage-wise it doesn't seem to cut the camembert.

Tiberius

Angry: I think she lives in a different time-zone although it does sometimes feel like another planet.

Verity

Tiberius, thank you ... I guess.

Angry SE1, no. I won't change the record regardless of how much you deplore it. The way advertising, meaning the insertion of an idea or a judgement into minds, is repetition.

I live in N America, incidentally, where the fresh air of freedom and accountability is all around us. The 3:33 a.m. post you refer to was made at a perfectly normal time in my time zone. (You don't get out much, do you?)

Jonny - I don't suggest that Gordon Brown could win a general election. I have suggested that fromage-wise, Alan Johnson, could crumble the Stilton. (To use your pointless analogy.)

seb

Mandelson, Darling and anyone else who feels inclined to argue the compromise position - 'We'll cut, but not as much as the people-hating Tories' - will first have to unseat Brown for this to be party policy. As the Liam Byrne piece indicates, Brown is likely to bolt in the opposite direction. If he lasts another eleven months, his one and only tactic will consist of some derivative of the IHT message. "Huge Tory public service cuts for the masses. Huge tax cuts for millionaires". It's too late for Brown to try to make any rational point.

There are and will always be millions of voters who do not know and would not care that the nation's heading for the financial cliff edge. Brown's only success in 2010 may be in creating a peculiarly nasty dividing line in the electorate through endless repetition of an entirely bonkers but still resonant slogan.

JONNY

'Alan Johnson, could crumble the Stilton. (To use your pointless analogy.)'

Terribly sorry Verity but if Alan Johnson did succeed, and stop Cameron, the same highly undesirable result would be even more likely to ensue.
With The Cheerful Cheeky Chappy winning (you unexpectedly playing drum-majorette in his fan club) the even more certain result would be a a LD PR pact. Leading to years and years of never-ending centre-left governments.
Whither prithee your poor Vulcan then?

Verity

Jonny - you have a point about a pact. Que sera, sera, but David Cameron is not the man to slay both ZanuLabour and the Lib Dems.

Jim Bob

I'm afraid the 'Tory cuts' bull and 'Tax cuts for 3,000 millionaires' might actually be effective with the people they are targeted at, and remember Labour will win the public sector vote whatever they do. We might still be heading for a hung parliament.