Western firms mustn't help the Iranian regime repress the Iranian population

mac

Pity the moral responsibility doesn't count when such repressive states are 'allies' or proto-allies, or when the business concerned has the clout to overturn a professed "ethical foreign policy": witness Al Yamamah and Hawks for Jakarta?

Colin

Never mind non-democratic regimes. what about companies who sell this technology to our very own nasty regime.

For those at the back, DPI technology is routinely being applied to our own domestic communications networks for all sorts of purposes - from understanding user behaviour, leading to highly targeted advertising to full blown, large scale surveillance by an ever increasing army of authoritarian snoopers.

David Bouvier

Of course, they were required to invent this stuff by our governments, so they can spy on us.

SCS

Why express concern that these products are sold to "non-democratic societies?

I read the article in the WSJ yesterday. It mentioned that Britain has this system.

Is the repressiveness of this type of monitoring only applicable in a non-democratic society?

David Preiser

If Iranian citizens didn't have the technology they do, you wouldn't be getting these eyewitness accounts, and they wouldn't be able to tell the world what's really going on. A couple of shaky videos from the Mousavi supporters at the BBC's Farsi service simply wouldn't have the same effect.

Selectively frown at Nokia and Siemens if you want, but you wouldn't even know about Neda or the rest of it without them. Your choice.

Steve.W

The tricks and techniques being used by the Iranians are, as others replying to this post say, the very same ones being used here in the UK.

The Iranian authorities brutality is what they think they can get away with. Give them time and they will adopt 'kettleing', this was used at the G20 in London.

logdon

Funnily enough, as I was watching news last night of the basij beating up protestors, I happened to notice the elaborate Robocop headgear with visors and hinged neck protection and wondered who on earth makes these things.

Then as the mind often does, the connectivity shifted to all the other hardware of state repression and next, all the harware, period.

Do they make cars in Iran for instance? Or motorbikes? Or computers? Or extending into the minutae of household life, toasters and vacuum cleaners?

The list of consumer durables is unending so where do they all come from? Who supplies them?

For a nation which hates the West, in particularly the Great Satan, they certainly seem addicted to what the Great Satan's brands offer.

If sanctions are now in force what actually are these sanctions?

Their hypocrisy of addiction to all the stuff we take for granted is only matched by the greed and hypocrisy of whoever supplies this never ending torrent of goods.

It's not only the arms trade which bolsters tyrants, it's all the other imported goods which keeps the citizens quiet.

Let them have Nokia's is the Ahmadineijad equivalent to the Antoinette cake.

With the caveat, of course that Nokia will sell jamming devices also.

Keeping the peasants fed was once the way to stay in power, now it's keeping them abreast with western technology.

Anyone notice the double standard here?

Rhoda Klapp

The double standard is to say we must 'engage' with them, not side with the protesters per Alex Massie and Pres. Obama, and ask bystanders like Nokia not to trade with them. Is there an embargo or not? Can one expect a firm from a neutral country to carry out foreign policy on our behalf?

All those instruments of suppression are in use right here. All that is required to initiate a repressive regime fully is a change of guidelines. Should multi-national firms be thinking of refusing to sell that stuff to the UK?

Steve.W

And another thing - “Companies that do business with non-democratic regimes have a moral responsibility not to sell these regimes tools that can be used to aid repression”.

Non-democratic, that could mean the EU, where does all this end?

Angela

Before condemning Nokia, just remember that the Phorm/BT/other ISP alliance to bring us targeted advertising is possible because of deep packet inspection. Despite an outcry from privacy advocates, our government refuses to make it illegal. Does anyone seriously imagine the government or its agencies don't themselves use it to monitor internet traffic?

Angela

Before condemning Nokia, just remember that the Phorm/BT/other ISP alliance to bring us targeted advertising is possible because of deep packet inspection. Despite an outcry from privacy advocates, our government refuses to make it illegal. Does anyone seriously imagine the government or its agencies don't themselves use it to monitor internet traffic?

Barry

"Companies that do business with non-democratic regimes have a moral responsibility not to sell these regimes tools that can be used to aid repression."

Nobody seemed to mind until the Iranian election. It is a corporatist mentality to expect businesses to display morals akin to Governments. Either there are trade embargoes or there are not. You cannot have it both ways. To do so is itself undemocratic.

logdon

"Rhoda Klapp
June 23rd, 2009 3:29pm "

No matter how bad it is here, and I would agree it is, comparing Iran with GB is a non sequiteur.

For now at least!

However I believe our Green Revolution equivalent has been the expenses scandal.

That was the trigger point which has unleashed an unprecedented public anger, pent up for so long at how big government has infiltrated, even to the extent of thought control via political correctness.

However, the differences are there for all to see.

No equivalent of the Telegraph's admirable forensic dissection of our greed obsessed, sleazy MP's and it’s outcome in Iran. Their only outlet was on the street.

Labour and it’s acolyte BBC is, however playing with fire here. Their attempt at conditioning us to Islam has posited an outrageous moral equivalence between us and states such as Pakistan. Or with terrorist organisations in the ME, hence the useful idiots parading, ‘we’re all Hezbollah now’.

Fortunately the mainstream is obviously not buying it. Again the yawning gap between our state and Islamic dominated ones is manifest and attempts at tampering is met by massive public resistance.

And is Labour and it’s daliance with internationalist marxism/islam really that crazy? It’s like turkey’s voting for Christmas.

In Pakistan and ME, when the masses don’t like their politicians, they assassinate them.

Scot Richards

Incredibly uninformed. Just why is it that you believe that Deep Packet Inspection is being used in Iran and not in the UK? The same software is built-in to just about every Cisco router used by the majority of ISPs in the UK.

Oh, and yes, at least those repressed Iranians were allowed an election - even if it was rigged - ulike those of us in the 'free' UK who are seeing our liberties sold down the river to the EU for gold-plated Euro-pensions for Brown, Blair, Kinnock and Mandelson.

Instead of barking on about ill-judged and misconcieved 'iniquities' why don't you do what the brave Iranian bloggers are doing and promote insurection in this, one of the world's most repressed countries - while we are still a country.

BaiDaLong

James, if you are so incensed at Western companies providing technology to 'opressive regimes' then I suggest you stop supporting them. Stop using the Internet! In order for your blog to reach me it probably had to pass through 8-10 servers, each of which can be monitored and censored. How does that fit with your moral tirade?

Somehow I don't think you'd be willing to go so far as giving up your pay cheque on a matter of principle now, would you? Not interested in taking your own advice? Do as I say, not as I do, socialism? But for the rest of us? Well, that's different, isn't it?

Mark Lovas

In the comments above, good points are made:
for example, that spy software is used by democratic governments--well they may not be r e a l l y democratic, but more sort of h i e r a r c h i c a l (as Ted Honderich would have it)..
and that's not less evil than using the stuff in Iran..

and that Iranians as well as the Iranian government buy goods from other countries, not just tools which harm free speech...(Though frankly this idea that Iran is evil seems to ignore the history here.... Iran didn't overthrow the government of the USA or Great Britain!!)

But, it's important that the government of any country cannot be identified with the people so long as the country has severe wealth inequality which makes some people's ability to influence the government way out of proportion with a "one person/one vote" principle...

As for giving up the internet, that's irrelevant. We live in complex societies. We depend upon other people for many reasons, not just depending upon companies with questionable
morals to provide internet connections It's not about inconsistent socialism; it's about the need for fundamental change if you take morality seriously. It's not just a problem with Siemens, or Google for that matter.

But I think the real crux of the matter is that the Iranian people in the streets have shown a kind of bravery. And that bravery sharply contrasts with the meanness of government spying.
And the meanness of people making profits out of helping them spy....

You might wonder: what if people in the USA had shown a similar reaction to their stolen election not so long ago?.......Possibly, if US citizens in large numbers had marched peacefully in the streets to protest when the Supreme Court gave Bush his first presidency, just possibly there would have been no war in Iraq. (Incidentally, as I remember the Supreme Court said there wasn't time to count the votes. Sounds like a very bad reason.)