The don't ask, don't tell approach to immigration is what has given the BNP an opportunity

TrevorsDen

The statistic gives the lie - another one - to Browns claims about creating new jobs.

Our home grown unemployment continues and the numbers on benefits grow. Brown has created an ever growing British underclass on the back of his immigration policy.

Brown is an unmitigated disaster. And now he wants to squander (or at least says he does) $100 million on non existent global warming aid for the 3rd world.

Jim

The BNP is getting smarter, they are focusing on being over run by alien cultures, the racial message is more subliminal.
This kind of statistic is sure to help them, immigrants are taking our jobs, but bizarrely that is government policy.
We are now at the beginning of the middle of the financial crisis. Government debt is on an exponential path from 20 billion a year to 20 billion a month, more and more government spending plans are being delayed as they run out of cash, eg MyCoice HomeBuy, the credit for small businesses one, the school rebuilding programme. Also delayed spending reviews.
Sterling must be close to collapse now. I'd guess the BNP's message will resonate when people can't buy food. We are about to sleepwalk through the doors to hell.

seb

The times, they are a changing. Last week, a local Polish language paper ran this headline - "You don't have a job? Don't leave!" It's nice that the editor of the paper has confidence that the UK job market for his fellow Poles will improve but, if there is no improvement, his readership is doomed to shrink. Such a trend, assuming anyone notices, will have interesting implications for both Labour and the BNP. If people return home, BNP support might wane. Labour, of course, will have to explain why the economy needs even fewer skilled workers at the same time as it tries to convince voters that there are green shoots of economic recovery across England's green and pleasant land.

Simon Stephenson

Does your research calculate how many of these new job creations would not have happened if the nett immigration had not taken place? In other words, are you able to say how many jobs that would otherwise have been taken up by natives have instead been taken by immigrants?

Otherwise I fear people might conclude that every new job in your analysis would still have been available if there'd been no nett immigration. And this just can't be true, I'd have thought.

I wonder what percentage of NoTW readers would conclude this, for example?

Publius

Objections to large-scale immigration are not just based on economics. It is a recurring mistake at Westminster to suppose that they are.

Ivan D

What's your point? Your point can't possibly be that the new jobs have been created for immigrants, so it must be that, 'the new jobs that have been created have gone overwhelmingly *to* immigrants'. But this, of course, to use a technical economic term, is balls, total and utter balls. And if you understood even a fraction of basic, free market economic theory you would see that it's precisely the new immigrants who have created the 'new' jobs. Hence, neither cause nor consequence but correlation.

Alf Tupper C.R.O.F.

Better late than never Fraser.

As long as this is not followed by homilies about our "unfounded perceptions"

James J

There seems to me to be uncomfortable parallels between the growth of Irish nationalism in the early 20th Century and what is occurring now in England (not Britain).A Political class/Ascendancy that does not share the values of the general population, the suppression of any nationalism/patriotism and the stigmatising and contempt shown to the Bog Irish/Chavs.(Natives)
The BNP are now using the term “Bloodless Genocide” to describe the population replacement we are seeing in many of our cities. In demographic terms this has an element of truth in it—a new immigrant household every 6 minutes? A third of the population of London a member of an Ethnic minority? A quarter of the children in London in a household where no one works—not unrelated.

John Page

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/columnists/fraser_nelson/381725/Main-parties-refuse-to-get-to-grips-with-immigration-despite-BNPs-shaming-victory.html

John Page

The main parties' reaction has been to rubbish the BNP as unacceptable. The chipmunk was at it, while Cameron called them 'retarded racists'. The BBC joins in on Question Time, using questions critical of the BNP while the BNP's not there.

Loftily ticking off almost 1m voters doesn't feel like inclusive politics.

Have there been any opinion polls of people who voted BNP asking them why they did? I suppose it would be hard to know if you'd got a statistical cross-section.

logdon

Is sending out 2000 letters, testing out employers for potential racist discrimination, entrapment? Or the foothills on the road to employee control statist totalitarianism?

And the way to go for a government on the ropes right now? Third behind UKIP is a very forceful message.

If I applied for a job at a curry house and was turned down would Cooper show he same spirit of idealism?

And in view of the recent legal action by a waitress who objected to the uniform (despite being pictured on Facebook in a much lower and far more revealing top) and winning £2000 will more employers be wary of taking on Muslims?

Then the hairdresser who told her potential employer she had to wear the headscarf. Or Sainsbury's checkout staff who have to call a non muslim when alcohol is being purchased.

All individually petty stuff but as the tales mount up the BNP grows.

This sort of stuff is food and drink to them and supporters who will never baulk at highlighting the Labour anti British racism message.

If anyone checked out the BNP site they'd see well crafted and compelling messages with the core being that we are now strangers in our own land. Second class citizens where race quotas trump common sense and best for the job is a meaningless qualification.

They back it up with hard evidence and cases where whites are turned down merely because of colour. (Gloucestershire Police succesfully sued for discrimination after instigating all black quotas being one of their cause celebres.)

What a vote winner? What a open goal for Labour who have pushed the boundaries of tolerance beyond breaking point.

If anyone read the Times report on the Romanians forced out of Belfast and then the reader comment, the disparity could not be more glaringly self evident. If this was some kind of loopy socialist experiment, what a place to trial it where two soldiers and a police officer have recently been killed by sectarians?

It’s this constant push of the tolerance envelope which is raising ire and for many the BNP provides the answer. Each time some howling far left mob disrupts their meetings they quite rightly ask where is democracy now? Where are the police who always protect Islamic meetings and demonstrations?

To take on the BNP with physical attack, discrimination, lies and slander only proves their point.

Labour has ignored the, taken for granted, core white working classes and now they are turning against the one time default of the Labour cross on the ballot paper.

Who, if we are to get real and take off our blinkers can blame them?

logdon

This is funny

http://plato-says.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-labour-cracks-down-on-immigration.html

Laban Tall

It is excellent that a mainstream commentator is starting to address these issues, as the contradictions in what I might call the Establishment view on immigration are many. For example, how can I read in the Guardian on one page that ethnic minorities suffer high levels of unemployment, and on another that mass immigration is necessary for economic reasons - doing 'the jobs the locals won't do' ?

Tim B

The way to defeat the BNP is for the main parties to understand what is attracting support to the BNP, and then address those concerns themselves.

The reason for the BNP is the failure of the main parties to react to voters concerns.

Rhoda Klapp

There's absolutely not a chance in hell that the big two and a half parties will do anything about immigration now. You might just get them to talk about it, but not actually propose or implement a policy which would have any effect. So the BNP will benefit but nobody else will. Silence IS the best tactic for westminster. If it screws the electorate (or a decent-sized chunk of it, at least), well, tough.

Well done for getting the data though.

Jean Baker

Labour has proved, through countless services, public and private, that there is one set of rules for immigrants and another for British citizens. The sense of the British being 'gagged and oppressed' has, unsurprisingly, strengthened the BNP. It has the same right to exist and represent as Nulabor. I'm a lifelong conservative, but I do understand the frustrations caused by uncontrolled immigration. This, coupled with android Brown's empty rhetoric of 'British Jobs for British Workers' drives those made redundant by immigrants to take extreme action.

No government has cared less about it's workers than Nulabor.

McKenzie

Fraser, you are wasting your breath so to speak. Even the most vilified political party in the country is having no effect. What do you think a few graphs are going to do? But hey, I have an open mind so good luck.

Andy

We have rising domestic unemployment, WHY are we importing workers? It's insane and the unnecessary welfare bill will cripple us.

TGF UKIP

Fraser, following your strictures, I did get the NoW delivered this week and was not disappointed. First I was able to read of the menage a deux which immediately prompted me to wonder why not a trois, but then I remembered The Mekon as the Real Leader is apart from the mere mouthpieces.

And then secondly I was able to be amused at the opening para of your BNP piece - "It's been three weeks since the BNP's election triumph and things are looking up for their odious leader, Nick Griffin."

Now what I find so amusing, Fraser, is the apparent competition between all you London journos, from your ghettos in Richmond on Thames, Primrose Hill etc, to find the most abusive adjectives for Griffin and his party.

Has it never occurred to you that one of the contributory reasons for the BNP's success is the "us and them" syndrome with posh London journos being decidedly "of them."

I must admit I am coming to have some regard for Nick Griffin for two reasons.

Firstly, he gives as good as and better than he gets in media interviews on TV or radio. A complete contrast it must be said to your green jelly who while getting routinely rubbished by them still professes to confess to an enduring and abiding love for the BBC.

Secondly, Griffin speaks and is prepared to speak loudly for the people who voted for him. And here, Fraser, we come to the crunch - who else is going to speak for the poor indigenous people of places like Burnley who have seen their towns, the birthplaces of them and their ancestors colonized by an entirely different race and culture - and colonized not by conquest but by surrender of London leaders - IN THEIR NAME! Come on Fraser who else is going to speak up for them?

Certainly not the Labour monkeys who long ago calculated that they could count on those in places like Burnley who did actually vote and who also decided there was more long term mileage in the Muslim vote and certainly not the LibDems who believe they have the franchise on PC.

Which brings us to your lot, Fraser, and is there any party less likely to speak up and say not only that immigration must be stopped but what has been allowed to happen is profoundly wrong. Nigel Hastilow is a name etched deep.

It would indeed be a fascinating philosophical debate as to who harbours the greater prejudice - Nick Griffin and the BNP or the London "opinion formers."

John White

So it's just the approach to the over running of Western territories that is of concern to you Fraser.

James J

There seems to me to be uncomfortable parallels between the growth of Irish nationalism in the early 20th Century and what is occurring now in England (not Britain).A Political class/Ascendancy that does not share the values of the general population, the suppression of any nationalism/patriotism and the stigmatising and contempt shown to the Bog Irish/Chavs.(Natives)

The BNP are now using the term “Bloodless Genocide” to describe the population replacement we are seeing in many of our cities. In demographic terms this has an element of truth in it—a new immigrant household every 6 minutes? A third of the population of London a member of an Ethnic minority? A quarter of the children in London in a household where no one works—not unrelated.

Free Thomist

It is almost unbelievable that this scale of change in the cultural and ethnic constitution of these islands has occurred without ever putting the policy to a vote.

It is no wonder people are frustrated; this is another of the many factors causing our contempt for the political class.

Jez

Simon Stephenson;

"I wonder what percentage of NoTW readers would conclude this, for example?"

Your attitude and statement is everything why the BNP are here.

Pat

The BNP is usually castigated for its recial prejudice. No-one seems to comment on its economic policies, which appear to involve lots of nationalisation and support for heavy industry- very Old Labour.
What is it wrong with prejudice?
If we see a gang of young men going lqarge we mostly don't check their intentions-we fear violence and steer clear- its safer than checking. If we see someone in rags we mostly assume they're poor- we don't check their bank account. If we see a lightly attired young lady talking to a man in a car we don't usually assume she's asking for directions.
Prejudice is of course less accurate than a court judgment- and even they can be wrong- but it is obtained in a fraction of the time at a fraction of the cost. We have to make judgments every minute of every day and it is simply not possible to consider them all thoroughly- so we go by gut instincts, or prejudices as they're otherwise called.
If you accept the above then you accept that everyone is prejudiced.
It seems to me as monumentally unwise to reject the gut instincts of the mass of the British people on this issue as on any other.
And that raises the issue of who is British. Someone born in Britain of generations of British parents (like me)? Anyone who's in Britain at the moment? Somewhere in between? I would suggest Enoch Powell's approach- it should be based on military service (though that lets me out)- only those who have proved their willingness to serve Britain should be allowed to count themselves British.

THX1138

Fraser aren't you married to a Swedish immigrant? Did she take one of the 106% of new jobs in the private sector ? :)

Verity

Fraser Nelson writes: "The don't ask, don't tell approach to immigration is what has given the BNP an opportunity..."

Why shouldn't they have "an opportunity", Mr Nelson?

Who the hell are you and your trendy little cohorts to shut out opposing thoughts because you absolutely, cannot, cannot, cannot, fingers-in-ears - cannot abide their dreadful little thoughts? I mean, eeeeeeeek! The little people are too dreadful!

So what? How did your right to free thinking become more elevated ... indeed, prescribed, than those thoughts you imagine the electorate - "the little people?" aka the voters, may entertain?

I am sure there are "think tanks" funded, against their will and without their knowledge by the taxpayers, that are working on ways to deprive those citizens who think "wrong thoughts" of a say.

Who could have predicted that the country that led the modern world to democracy now plans to revert to the geopolitik of the USSR and the Eastern bloc?

Yet who can be surprised? The Stazi has long been in place in Britain ... park wardens who don't want old people walking with canes in case they trip someone up with them? County councils who won't allow old people to hang baskets of flowers in the hallways of their old peoples' flat blocks because "they might impede" who knows what; police, formerly our protectors when I was a little girl, now an armed arm of the Stasi and given license to taser people protesting against the state?

CCTV. Except for women wearing burqas and niqabs, of course, because of "religious tolerance". Every journey you take recorded by your Oyster card. Your DNA taken and recorded for every little infraction.

A "license fee" to own an electrical appliance. That license fee applied to tearing down the civilisation our ancestors built over the centuries.

Anyone who thinks David Cameron has the will, or the wit - frankly, he is not a bright man - to reverse this is nuts.

George

It's obvious that to those in power there is no problem with uncontrolled immigration. They would quite happily leave British born workers to rot. The only 'problem' is the embarrassing sight of the BNP in the House of Commons. So just ban the BNP, persecute their members, lock them all up, and 'problem' solved.

Jez

(I wish the Speccie wouldn't do this- place pretty cool debating material online where i can access/contribute whilst supposed to be working)

Might not get in- but someone will read it hopefully;

The night of the elections, i stayed up all night.

It got to 10.40pm (ish) and i was all up for crashing out.... then the news seemed to be filtering through that the Yorkshire BNP could be in with a chance.

Anyway that was that. I was up for the duration. (I had several pieces of steel work i had to get to team at 4am, so what the hell!)

Well. What a night- for the BNP and (here's the important factor here) what a night for the media, government and establishment personalities.

The reaction of the news presenters was unbelievable;

Sky's Boulton put it down to working-class ignorance, the BBC Robinson's mask slipped- and so went did the trendy, cool, 'hey- democracy.. it’s not perfect but I am' facade and others lined up to quite unashamedly criticise the result but *at not one point* look inwards to read what has caused this phenomenon.

This isn't just some Poles working here temporarily, Romanians coming here signing on- then going back home to get the money wired back to them, it's not the endemically hostile prejudice against the working class from the media, it's not aggressive Muslim enclaves now dominating urban centers in the North, Luton or the East End, nor neither is it innocent white/mixed race kids walking down the road in any UK town to find themselves cut down and murdered in some ‘Ghetto’ blood feud.

It’s not those individual things above or the thousands of other major issues sweeping the country (as it has done in a major way since the Northern Town riots of 2001) .

It is simply this;

The government, media, establishment have looked at the above and seen it as prospective problem that could

a, create dissent and after the election of the Burnley councilors in 2002, generate support for the BNP

b, loosen the liberal left monopoly of things

c, compromise their long term career prospects within that liberal left monopoly

So they have ignored the warning signals. And now the social fabric of this nation is in tatters. And now (as an opinion) this is an in-extractable situation due to the utter lack of principle or any code of honour from our UK elected servants this last 20 years.

Shame on them.

BenM

"there are more new workers (1.55m) than new jobs (1.47m)."

So what? The conclusion you try to reach on these simplistic stats does not follow.

And this is the REAL problem with the immigration debate. Numbers manipulated, twisted and presented in shockingly inaccurate fashion.

And it is the anti-immigration lobby which is worst at it of all. The BNP does not take advantage of any mythical PC reticence at discussing migration. It leaps on bogus conclusions (and hundreds like them published since the Tories collapsed after 1997) such as the ones presented here by Mr Nelson.

Simon Stephenson

Jez : 28/6 11.31pm

Simon Stephenson;

"I wonder what percentage of NoTW readers would conclude this, for example?"

Your attitude and statement is everything why the BNP are here.

Why, Jez, because they want the right to believe something that's untrue, because it's too hurtful to accept that they're at fault themselves at least as much as whichever minority they're choosing to blame at the time?

The white working-class, from whom the BNP chiefly draw their support, has had it tough since the Labour Party over-shifted away from them to gain electoral popularity. There's no doubt about that. It's frustrating to the core to be effectively disenfranchised - ask the intellectuals. But the answer isn't to move towards more and more authoritarianism, as the BNP favours. The working-class is never going to be treated fairly by authoritarians. Far better, I'd suggest, would be a move in the direction of Gandhi-like left-leaning libertarianism, in which everyone, whatever his standing, is treated with equal respect and dignity.

BTW, I intended no disrespect to NoTW readers. It was just that this was where FN's article was published.

TGF UKIP

I hope and trust you will reflect on the above posts, Fraser.

Spotted Dick

BenM

You don't need statistics mate.

Just look around any British inner city. If the conclusion you reach is that all is well, then you're having yourself on. Don't expect others to do the same.

Jez

Hi Simon S,

After reading several of your posts, i realise it may have taken rather harsh view of what you were trying to get across.

I must sincerely disagree with a move in the direction of a Gandhi-like left-leaning libertarianism- as an opinion only though.

How much do we need to change to even make this slightly work?

40 years and counting, every part of the establishment, every tradition (well almost) has been wrung out, dissected and scrutinised. Then someone that you wouldn’t even want to get stuck with- ever, for at least 10 seconds due to their utter lack of practical common sense/life skills, ‘decides’ whether or not it’s going to be banned.

What’s happened in this country is total bull-sh**- as an opinion.

This sudden ‘lurch right’- which blogshere is logging- hopefully to the alarm of the liberal left gravy train smug-gits worldwide is just a natural “Arghhhh! What the hell’s been happening!” from the next large percentage of the population that’s just woken up. (Liken it to sleeping in- and you’ve just opened your eyes to find the big meeting you’ve prepared for this last fortnight is now catastrophically missed).

If you sat down and went through the lot of it- you could not make it up.

It's a scandal.

Jane

Jez, I want to have your babies!! You are spot on.

Jez

Cheers Jane!

Lets hope this dummies guide, step by step, spoon fed explantaion of what's going on out here somehow gets picked up by some of the establishment.

(A tenner says they'll bugger it up!)

;))))

Chris Barnett

It's not enough to just get my country back. New Labour and the Tories let British pensioners die while pandering for the ethnic vote.

I want the BNP in, because I want those who betrayed my country to be hung until they live no more, I want them dead, I want justice.

Understand the anger of the white working classes, we want justice, we want Blair, Brown and all the other traitors publically executed.

We will not forget, we will not forgive.

BenM

@spotteddick

Are you sure you're living in the same country as me?

British cities are ticking over as nicely as they ever were.

There aren't any economic problems driven by immigration, and most of the - frankly minimal - amounts of social unrest (xenophobes voting BNP and the like) is founded in just the kind of exaggeration indulged in by Mr Nelson here.

Simon Stephenson

Jez

Please don't think I don't understand what you're saying, nor that I don't sympathise with you.

But the BNP is not the answer. In fact, anyone who promises to look after you will end up screwing you. Anyone who sets out their stall to favour one group of the country over another will end up favouring only the clique that keep them in power - and that will never include the working man.

Your best chance is to seek out political representation from a group that promises no more than to be equally fair to everyone in the population - and this does not mean being fairer to some than to others.

There is no such group at the moment, but keep your eyes open. The next few years are going to be so difficult that it will be impossible to get through them with any partisanship from the party in power. Any party wishing to run the country successfully is going to need to change. I think there may be some radical re-groupings in the aftermath of the general election.

Verity

Jez - Thanks for mentioning Gandhi because his name mantles socialism in a cloak of faux respectability.

It was Gandhi's philosophy, learned by admirer Jarwarlahal Nehru and his daughter/successor Indira Gandhi (no relation) that wrecked the Indian economy and held those lively, clever, energetic people back under the iron fist of "non-aligned nation" for 50 years.

Gandhi was a preachy, self-righteous prig. Here's how far sighted he was: he preached that every home in India should have a spinning wheel and spin its own cotton. As an example to the nation, this humble exemplar spun a square inch of cotton every single day. Whoah! Screw the wicked modern world of manufacturing! We'll be self-sufficient by weaving our own cotton! He even wanted to ensure that every dwelling in India had a spinning wheel.

Others, who wanted to build highways and ports to export cotton and improve the fortunes of India were sneered at as "capitalists" and stooges of the West.

Jez

Hi Stephen/Verity,

I’m situated in a hotel sat near the Thames estuary. There’s a recession/depression happening so I’m visiting one of the prominent refurbishment guru’s of our industry who (I think) has been overlooked somewhat. With him and a couple more ‘crunch’ busting niche suppliers we’re going to make millions, pump it back into our UK industry and ultimately save the world (and maybe even Bambi’s mum in the process hopefully).

I’ve also had a couple of wines, so that’s a bit of disaster regarding been let loose on this- most probably (if it’s submitted!).

Stephen;

I agree that any organisation is going to attract career types who couldn’t care less- but a few seem to want to be there to make a difference because they (and only they) genuinely *think* that they can put things right for the better good;

Politics; Hague (even though he’s a sarky git), Gove, Cable and (sorry) Clegg.

No one from NuLab whatsoever.

Right. Maybe no one will read this because I’ve said this now but; Griffin (Boo, Hiss, Blaah!)

I voted BNP so I’ll elaborate;

He’s Cambridge educated, so could have made loads (not doing what he’s doing now) and has had the threat of prison hanging over his head constantly for the last 30 years (coincidently very much more-so when the BNP has made inroads recently)…. I (absolutely) disagree with all his previous perspectives on several really, *really* bang out of order sh** points of view he's had regarding past major racist fuelled tragedies though.

If I thought he etc thinks/thought that now I would not have voted for the BNP.

I hope that mixed race, established non-white (but proud Brits all the same) genuine persons could join the the BNP soon.

This is the crux of the matter though; does anyone come close to even having a tenth of the bottle to say it how it is, in the way that the BNP is doing right now?

No they don’t.

That’s why I vote BNP- because my vote is throwing a stick in our anti-British establishments spokes.

Verity; I hadn’t actually mentioned Ghandi but I reckon (yet again), he was an opportunist to the highest level;

Quit India Campaign- er, August 1942?

Nice timing… Wehrmacht was pushing into the Caucasus, Rommel about to take Cairo/Suez/then onto the Middle East, ‘Fortress Singapore’ had fallen and the Empire of Japan was about to sweep into India after occupying Burma.

What a flyer Ghandi was.

john

''Does it matter if immigrants have taken (or created) all the new jobs in the British private sector?''

This is just not true!

I work in the Aerospace Industry, and the factory that I work at increased it's workforce by an extra 1500 during the period you talk about, and I know of not one immigrant in that intake.