Advertising cuts

Jonathan Cook

If these companies lived in Brown's world:

John Lewis: "Never knowingly the best value for money"

Comparethemarket.com: "The simpler way to more expensive deals"

Thomas Cook: "Don't just book it, cook the books"

Dirty Euro

But will the tories cut public spending more than the government or not cut it.
This is what is confusing, with all this talk of lies. What will the tories do. Will they cut public spending by more than the government what is the tory line will the cut public spending by more than the government yes or no?

Jeremy

This is politics - not common sense; not logic, not even sanity. But politics. It suits Brown and Labour to tell people that cuts in government expenditure mean cuts in front-line services. And, indeed, in those areas over which Labour has control it probably suits their political purposes to make sure that any cuts in government spending that the Tories have to make fall precisely upon those front line staff and services and not upon the quangocracy, or the leftist non-job holders and their inflated salaries with which our council offices and Town halls are stuffed. Those last-mentioned are the people upon whom the cuts should fall. But under a Tory government, Labour will do its damaging damndest to both assert and to see that they fall otherwise. After all, those very same non-job holders constitute their client base... don't they?

it is up to an incoming Tory government to do the best it can to see that any cuts which have to be made fall in the right - and not the wrong - places.

Verity

What is it about Americanisms that so enchants Speccie columnists? "Like I said" is illiterate, Pete, as I suspect you well know.

Could the simply awful David Cameron dump the props? At least in this photo, he was wearing a jacket, but what's with the coffee cup? He was drinking a cup of coffee while he was making policy announcements? The man has such a tin ear, I would hate to hear him trying to sing.

At the same time, could he and Michael Gove dump the florid Italianate operatic hand gestures? William Hague gets his message across with a stronger voice because he doesn't employ them. Neither does John Redwood...

Cameron has a tin ear.

Moraymint

Nice one Dave; now we're talking to the people. Keep going in this vein.

Never forget: Brown is an Orc; virtually indestructible and incapable of playing by any rules known to man. His other-worldliness will, of course, be his undoing, but meantime we have to keep attacking the Orc using all available means.

Brown is singularly incapable of connecting with ordinary people.

This supermarket analogy is superb; I doubt if Brown would recognise a supermarket if one got planning permission on his front lawn.

Don

Dirty euro as much as I would like to give you a YES/NO answer I cannot fathom out what the question is. Please try again.

paracelsus

Dirty Euro,

The country is on the verge of bankruptcy, and whichever party is in power after the next election they will have to cut spending. This is simple economics.

As for the Tories, they have already committed to reducing spending and increasing efficiency in the public sector. They have also committed, rightly or wrongly, to protecting the budget of the NHS and Education. You only need to have seen one of the PMQs from the last few weeks to know this point.

TrevorsDen

Gordon Brown's understanding of the real world is from logging on to Comparethemeercat.com

True Bred Pomponian

Dirty Euro

and not just will they cut public spending to the bone, but will they do it right. Will they cut out all the waste without cutting the frontline troops. It appalls me that every time people talk about cutting spending in the MoD they always talk about cutting the carriers or cutting Trident without even thinking about cutting some of the 100,000 civil servants first or cutting the cost of purchasing. Everything at the MoD seems to cost several times what it would do in the private sector. I work on the IT side so it is comparable.

lawrence greek

Dirty Euro - that question is totally irrelevant because we can't get an honest answer from Mr 0% Honesty about the government's intentions. How can you possibly make a comparison with something that doesn't even exist? Until the compulsive liars, Browns and Balls, start being honest with everybody there can be no meaningful debate. Particularly given that they are preventing the opposition and the country from having a detailed look at the books by cowrdly shelving the CSR.

Sparky

I would not like to be in DC's shoes after this government dispicably set the Tories up for the very hard decisions to be made after the election. GB and the crew do not know what to do. To forcast accurately any cuts required would need an open book on the public accounts! Alas DC has to use the Labour figures. I wonder how accurate these are?

Cogito Dexter

Perhaps the Tories should borrow their marketing style from M&S?

This isn't just any old lackadaisical political party, this is a quiet, responsible, sober party, designed to melt in the mouth, easy on the pocket and responsible with your money.

http://cogitodexter.wordpress.com

Denis Cooper

Dirty Euro

You can hardly expect the Tories to answer your question until the government has clearly laid out its own plans for public spending cuts.

Even if A is known, it's not possible to say whether A > B or A < B unless B is also known, and B is what the government is trying to conceal.

Incidentally, before its last two reverse auctions the Bank of England announced that two specified gilts would be excluded from its Asset Purchase Facility purchases until further notice, whereupon their market prices plummeted.

So the question of how much public spending will be cut, and how quickly, is intimately connected with the question of how much new money the Bank will be told to create, and for how long, and of course what the market will tolerate in that regard.

My gut feeling is that the Bank will have to carry on propping up the gilts market well into 2010 before it can gradually tail off its operations and it could end up holding about £400 billion of gilts, which won't be sold back into the market quickly but will instead be rolled over for decades.

strapworld

Verity. Are you telling us that Cameron is a poser?

Never!

He has followed his spiritual leader BLAIR and apologised for historical events and, I have it on very good authority, (Mandlesoin) that Cameron is going to ask the Queen to issue a pardon for Oscar Wilde next!!

His first act of Parliament is to legalise the much loved hobby of many a man, apparantly, 'Cottaging'.

Dirty Euro

Don well you are slow then.

So in other words no one knows if the tories will cut more than the government in public spending. Apparently they will just spend the money better. Whoooopie well why does everyone vote for them then.

NKC Whalley

Agree. Finally we will soon hear the message clearly. Live within our means, cuts and some suffering will be the inevitability of life. But, please rid us of the idling civil servants and non-qualified council staff who milk us all.

Verity

Strapworld, many thanks for the update on Conservative policy. Yesterday, too, I see that Dave announced in shocked tones that forbidding the promotion of homosexuality in schools was "Wrong!".

Well, that just lost him 80% of the vote.

GeoffH

Des: "So in other words no one knows if the Tories will cut more than the government in public spending."

How can we 'know' since the government doesn't 'know' or indeed tell us how much it will cut public spending.

In a question involving comparatives, you need to know the comparator and here Labour is determined to hide it. In those circumstances if you can't work out whether the Tories will cut more or less, it's hardly their fault. Nor can they be blamed.

But then I think you know this and just like stirring the pot thinking you're making a very clever point.

You aint.

Simon Stephenson

"Imagine if some of our biggest business brands followed the logic of our government. These businesses spend their entire time trying to reduce costs in order to provide better value and a better service."

If the spend their "entire time" doing this, how are they also able to be successful at driving out small-scale competition, setting up secret cartels with major "competitors", screwing out any profit their suppliers might have thought of making, diverting profits offshore into low-tax regimes and subverting governments into turning a blind eye to their methods?

Busy people, obviously.

"Indeed, this recent advert for Asda - on how they're cutting back on waste and other outgoings to "pass savings onto the customer" - may as well be a textbook for how the Tories could develop this theme to sell spending cuts to voters:"

But this is just a version of the New Labour method of persuasion. Who says they're actually cutting back on waste and other outgoings and not just saying it? And do they really think that we're so stupid that we believe that any "savings" that are made are going to handed over to customers in price cuts?

It's all dishonest bullsh1t, and if this is all the Conservatives have to offer in this field they might as well give up. And here was me moderately encouraged by what they have to say about education.

Publius

Good for Cameron. Section 28 was a silly mean ugly little rule.

Chris

Simon Stephenson

I am sure rather that promoting supermarkets he talking about how they promote themselves as good value for the customer - which is what the tories want to do.

Labour's attitude to government is the bigger the better. If I spend 200 then the results will be twice as good as spending 100. Infantile nonsense but that's what makes them tick.

If the tories approach government from a business perspective then there will be a lot of back office government staff 'rationalised'. Look at the tax system, administered by an army of bureaucrats and endlessly complicated. If made more simple it would be easier to administer. So get rid of tax credits, for example, and raise initial tax thresholds for all, or reduce council tax, or some other measure to offset.

El Sid

As you say, this is a bit more like it from Cameron. Can't think of anything directly in that vein, but here's a few slogans whilst we're about it :

Downing St - Home of the Whopper.

Between love and madness lies Mandelson.

Between love and madness...an Obsession with lies

Put a liar in your bank

Brown's economy - snap, crackle pop!

Shame we don't have Target over here, it would be too obvious to modify their slogans :
Target. Expect More. Pay Less
Don't stop living in the red

The Micra one - Ask before you borrow (it)

Pirelli - Power is nothing without control.

"Mum's gone to the IMF"

John Smith - No Nonsense.

AndyinBrum

sorry, when does anyone promote homosexuality? How does one going about promoting homosexuality?

And why should anyone care you cant make people gay, you might make them slighty less hysterical drama queens than their parents.

RabC

"It's all dishonest bullsh1t, and if this is all the Conservatives have to offer in this field they might as well give up. And here was me moderately encouraged by what they have to say about education."

... ald romantic fool that ye are!

Verity

Further to Dave's new mode of announcing policies with operatic arm gestures, or holding a tea or coffee cup for some reason, I note in the photo above that he is holding the cup by the body of the cup, not the handle.

Is this how he imagines "the little people" hold their teacups? It most assuredly is not how he was taught to hold a cup as a child, so I can only assume that this was staged and condescending. Which is even worse than making announcements holding a coffee cup in the first place.

Dave is frightened of the voters.

Jeremy

To Simon Stephenson:

I think that Dave has worked hard enough and well enough to have earned the benefit of the doubt. Besides, he's got the Carswell/Hannah reforms to draw upon. There may be more to him than some people around here appear to think. I hope so, anyway. Because what the country needs is a great Tory leader backed by a strong and talented government in order to sort this (and other messes)out. Dave is going to have to be that man, for there is no other. And I think that he may have it in him. I can see it, sometimes.

He is much more "people friendly" than some of his predecessors have been. He is very good at reaching out to people - beyond just the narrow circle of his political friends - and talking to them. This is not the only quality he possesses, but I think you will agree that in modern politics it is essential.

Simon Stephenson

Chris 2/7 : 6.01pm

"I am sure rather that promoting supermarkets he talking about how they promote themselves as good value for the customer - which is what the tories want to do."

But, all the way through, the supermarkets are promoting themselves as something they are not. Advertising's moved on from making people aware of your good points. It's now all about suggesting that you've actually got all the good points that you might have if you hadn't used market clout, public suggestibility and government impotence to act more advantageously for your shareholders and executives.

If the Tories followed the supermarkets we'd end up with a vast, bloated public sector, devoted to supplying what it wanted to supply, at a level of efficiency with which it was comfortable, not too stretching, and all the time spending zillions on creating a mainstream belief pattern that is hostile to the idea that there is any better way of doing things.

Is it a bit radical to suggest that the Tories should be focusing on how actually to achieve all those things they want to boast about, and then let the reality do their publicity for them? It may require a lot more brainpower than a specious advertising campaign, but isn't politics supposed to be more about outcomes than impressions?

Jeremy : 10.32pm

The next government has to be prepared to demonish much of the consensus thinking that's developed over the last 15 - 20 years. Not refurbish it, or give it a makeover, but demolish it and start again on a different tack. To do this it must accept that many developments were rationally and reasonably wrong at the time, and that social/economic failure is not because events have conspired against them, but because the whole thinking behind them was flawed.

Our new leader has to have the charisma to inspire the public to get behind what needs to be done, the political skill to construct a team that will frame policy to allow this to be achieved, with the intellectual ability to understand the unemotional fundamentals around which these policies must be framed.

I'm convinced neither that Mr Cameron has these qualities nor that he hasn't. I wasn't encouraged by his presentation yesterday. The right team's out there - is he fully enough aware to pick it?

William

'At Tesco every little bit doesn’t so much as help – in fact it’d be a 10 per cent cut in the quality of the food'.'

How does Tesco achieve such incredible prices? Oh, that's right, they get poor children to make clothes for rich children. Every little helps, eh? Perhaps we could get a smug Prunella Scales voiceover to clips of 10-year-olds working. 'Every little helps' - yes, it does, doesn't it?

What an example for the UK Government to follow - the robbers and exploiters of 'wealth creation'. No, thanks!

Verity

William, just a word on your ignorant comment above. "Oh, that's right, they get poor children to make clothes for rich children. Every little helps, eh?"

If there's anything I loathe, it's a smug, malinformed Westerner imposing his provincial little Weltanschuuang on people in poorer countries.

What these clothing factories have done for the local economy in countries that are just finding their feet is outstanding. Now, instead of climbing over garbage mountains in Indonesia and the Philippines, looking for a coin, or even a match that hasn't been struck that they can sell, some of them are lucky enough to be employed in a factory, earning good money on the scale of the local economy. They may be the first person in their family who has ever had employment.

The factories are well ventilated. There is food - normally free - at lunch time; and there is usually a doctor or a nurse. And you don't have to have an education to get a job.

These people queue for hours in the tropical sun to get these jobs. It's highly competitive. Their wages bring in enough to the family to ensure that one or two other children can continue in school right through.

Do you think these youngsters are marched into factories at gunpoint and chained to their stools?

People in Britain get cheap fripperies on which to waste their money and people in Third World countries get their foot on the ladder.

God, I hate self-righteous prigs.

William

'What these clothing factories have done for the local economy in countries that are just finding their feet is outstanding.'

What an absolutely despicable view.

There is NOTHING outstanding about exploiting children in another country for the benefit of children in this country. NOTHING. NOTHING. Get that through your skull. NOTHING.

There is NO good in children working in terrible conditions for 7p an hour whilst Tesco's chief executive gets 6 million pounds a year. That is not a good thing, if you're too despicable to understand.

If Tesco, and others, were so eager to develop these communities and economies they would offer genuine wages instead of taking advantage of dirt-poor communities desperate for anything. That is called exploitation, Verity. That is what we call it. Tesco and others are not in these countries for development, they are there to take advantage of desperate labour in order to maximise their own profits.

If this is the road that The Spectator believes is appropriate for the UK Government then we are in for some terrifying times. We will have gone back 200 years in time.

Ray

William - Admittedly, the kind of Wild West capitalism you describe isn't pretty, but it is an inevitable step on the road to real prosperity amongst developing nations.

Otherwise, you fail to understand the basics of economic growth: namely, with the advent of capitalism (including foreign investment) comes greater paid employment; with greater paid employment comes higher living standards; with higher living standards comes rising expectations amongst the citizenry; and with rising expectations amongst citizenry comes the demand for more say in how their societies are governed and how its workers are treated. That's the story of British capitalism and (whether the grey old men in Beijing like it or not) it will also be the story of Chinese capitalism too.

Or would you rather those Third World peasants abandon their high-tech factories and go back to trudging away in paddy fields?

William

Ray, if capitalism is the answer for these communities to boost their standard of living then why doesn't Tesco et al offer comparable UK wages to them? Why offer 7p an hour and then claim you're doing your bit for economic prosperity? It's as if it is not enough to rub their faces in the dirt, you have to then get them to thank you for it.

If Tesco et al were to offer, say, UK minimum wage in places like Bangladesh then they could at least argue with a straight face that they are trying to raise the standard of living in these communities and generate wealth in their economies. By offering the lowest they can get away with, they betray their true motivation - to hire THE CHEAPEST POSSIBLE LABOUR. As soon as the 7p-an-hour juvenile workforce become too 'expensive' or too 'demanding' the contract will go to even cheaper labour somewhere else. It is not about improvement or sustainability, it is about getting maximum profit for people in the West at the expense of poor people around the globe.

When we have a global government, a global currency and global employment rights then we can talk about a global market for jobs. Until then, though, it is simply a con trick played on poor people who are told that they are part of a global system and that by working for a pittance, in poor conditions with almost no employment rights their lot will improve.

To talk, as you do, about 'greater paid employment' when the very reason these companies are there is to find the lowest paid employment is utterly perverse doublespeak, I'm afraid.

Ray

William - I think you will find the average Chinaman is earning a damned sight more per hour today (and in real terms) than his father or grandfather did in their youths. And the average Japanese and South Korean certainly is.

Anyway, of course multi-national companies are always on the look-out for the cheapest comparable labour (in exactly the same way that you or I are always on the look-out for the cheapest comparable groceries). However, that labour will not always remain cheap. As living standards rise and good education becomes more widespread those 7p an hour shoe-stitchers will increasingly shun the sweatshops and instead start writing software for 50p an hour or more in a nice air-conditioned office (as many Indians now do).

Once upon a time Japan built most of the world's ships. Nowadays, the Japanese do other more cerebral tasks and leave shipbuilding to their South Korean neighbours (who, in turn, may eventually follow suit and leave shipbuilding to the Brazilians). So it goes.

To summarise, it is no double-speak to assert that capitalism and overseas trade have lifted more Chinese out of poverty than anthing Mao Zedong ever said or did.