Follow the BoJo revolution

Max Kaye

Zero Tolerance to lies would render Brown speechless.

TGF UKIP

Fraser, we have had some toing and froing on this and I would repeat that the effectiveness of the message depends on its medium. Thus I would agree that verbal recitation of dodgy statistics produces glazed eyes and in one ear out the other syndrome. Not so though when the same stats are in black and white and on paper. Newspaper ads are seen as politically passe but can be short term devastatingly effective especially when used creatively and particularly humorously. A short series of "Porky Pies" or "True or False" type ads would put Gordon on the backfoot and put the whole issue of Labour's wholesale mi-use of statistics centre stage. It might also encourage Brown-nosers like Andrew Marr to challenge once in a while.

Lee Jakeman

The only time a politician tells the truth - is when he calls another politician a liar.

mike

When a chappie reaches a certain age he should do away with his fringe. Boris reached that age some time ago.

Fergus Pickering

I like Boris's fringe. And he is, anyway, forever young.

Tiberius

I go along with your points, Fraser, particularly b) and c), and with TGF over the medium. Therefore, it would seem that your proposition, that the Boris method be used as an effective means to expose blatant lies of MPs in the House, would do well to be developed, especially by the Tories in the face of the pig-iron production stats with which Brown carpet-bombs us.

Fraser Nelson

TGF, good idea re Porkies series - perhaps we'll do it! Picking up minor points could make a major point: that Brown speaks with forked tounge and produces economic equivalent of Blair's dodgy dissier. Tiberius, don't hold your breath! The Tories would first have to get their heads around Brown's figures and know when he's telling a porkie to actually indentify it in parliament. I remain amazed how few of them have enough interest to familiarise themselves with such facts, how they are measured and how they are misrepresented. I guess that would bring me to TGF's conclusion: if they just sit there, they deserve all they get. Mike/Fergus, we do Boris a disservice as he has his hair cut now and our photos predate it. Still a fringe, though. You can watch the Boris incident over at Sky News Videos.

Tiberius

It's disappointing to read your comment, Fraser, that many Tories can't be bothered to study the extent of Brown's statistical manipulation, even if confronting him over it in the House would have little or no effect on the voting intentions of the public. As for using the print media for rebuttal, be careful. While such a campaign in the Speccie may be almost universally popular, there are risks with the tabloids. I have already noted the interpretation of "young Tory toffs bully poor Uncle Joe", but we do have concrete examples from the past which backfired; eg. Brown's chameleon ad, and the Blair demon eyes campaign.

BrianSJ

Some McPorkies for your list (great idea) in The Herald on the Edinburgh children's hospital. http://tinyurl.com/yqbw4y

newmania

I wouldn`t say you were part of the blogasphere as such. BTW Labour Home have got some words from Boris upon which Brown`s claim can be pinned

David Parker

Perhaps political bloggers could place a 'sticky' on their sites entitled "An eye for a lie"? Or, maybe someone should start up a site dedicated to preserving porkies for posterity.

mark

Kafka would have loved all this - are we seriously saying now that it will be extremely hard to unravel the "facts" from the "stats" - so difficult indeed that the main opposition can't get their head around it? Are we doomed to have political discourse forever based shallow commentary and opinion?

TGF UKIP

C'mon Tiberius, stiffen the old sinews. As I recall Blair & Co battering Major and the Tories and not shrinking from using the "L" word didn't do them much harm or are you saying their majority would have been over 200 if they had been nice guys like Dave and Boy George. The Tory wets (sorry statesmen!) can always find good reason to do nowt and not to fight but you guys ain't in a particularly strong position as a result of such wimpish opposition. For Gordon to be still so close in the polls after all his travails of the past few months should be leading even Dave's biggest fans to wonder about where they've invested all their hopes.

Tiberius

TGF; you may well be right on this, but can you guarantee that there would be no adverse reaction? Once committed, it would be difficult for the Tories to pull back. And I'd be happy with a majority of 30 at the next election after taking into consideration all the factors, much discussed on here, which give Labour a natural advantage. The demise of Major was against a different backdrop to Brown's, hence my doubt about Cameron sticking his neck out too far too early. He does have advisers, after all - maybe they'll judge next week to be the time to turn up the heat as you suggest.

TGF UKIP

Tiberius are even you perhaps not beginning to think that Dave and his advisers and their judgements just might have something to do with why the voting public are not more convinced by the Tory Party?

Tiberius

TGF; I would say on that on this issue (and perhaps many more to come)we are disagreeing over timing. In the fullness of time, I expect the Cameroons to adopt more radical policies. We have seen such moves in education, taxation of the family, and crime already. But if I understand correctly your viewpoint in a strategic sense, you don't agree with Cameron's whole direction of travel (which I do).

TGF UKIP

Tiberius, you are right, our difference is,I regret, fundamental. You believe, if I'm right, that "everything will be all right on the night." In other words Dave will win in 09/10 with something akin to his current agenda but then reveal himself in office to be a true conservative. I don't agree on both counts. I don't think Dave essentially is a conservative but rather a fully paid up Tory Left SocDem. On the second count his margin is going to be narrow at best and without a conservative mandate (and manifesto) he will be eclipsed not just by the Labour/LibDem and media opposition but by the SocDem wing of the Tory Party. The Great Lady showed the way - campaign as a conservative, win as a conservative and then tell the wets to f**k off!

Tiberius

Correct, TGF, except that there is a strategy (not quite as haphazard as it being all right on the night). Although (as Fraser reports above on the whips for example) Cameron may not have the quality of staff or support that we would want.