Damaged reputations

TGF UKIP

Also while outwardly professing humility you instinctively know that underneath he really is one arrogant, opinionated sod.

Drusilla

So, Ruth Gledhill - no fan of Rowan Cantaur at the best of times - has found one member (out of c. 482) of the General Synod who, anonymously, thinks Dr Williams ought to resign. What's unusual about that? I'd have thought that was pretty average, really. In any event it's no excuse for the Times' faintly hysterical headline, and does no credit to Ms Gledhill's reputation as a serious journalist. Save that sort of thing for the blog, eh? And as for the substance of Dr Williams' speech, if anyone out there had bothered to read it, rather than taking an incurious, lazy and generally secularising media's word for what it says, they'd perhaps agree that it raises some interesting questions, but in no way deserved all this fuss. Or would that have spoiled this impromptu festival of Islam-bashing that some of you are so incontinently enjoying?

mart

Hi Fraser, I checked that Spectator article you linked, and actually the Archbishop did provide an answer, delivered via a spokesperson. The article also says there were others asked who declined to answer. Perhaps you ought to correct the article above?

Anglican

Please can we have Peter Mullen for Archbish? Now there's a man who's not afraid to stick his head over the parapet in defence of the Established Church and Christian values, a man to make us Anglicans proud of our church again. Consequently, of course, it will never ever happen.

Max Kaye

Drusilla, Having heard his interview on Radio 4 yesterday (live) and subsequently read his speech, I'm even more concerned.

The man is either ridiculously naive or has a very dangerous agenda. The Nigerian Anglican Archbishop (or Bishop) interviewed on Radio 4 today was equally scathing of Rowan Williams - this from a man who knows first-hand the dangers of allowing Sharia Law to slip in the 'thin edge of the wedge'.

I am surprised that a woman (if, Drusilla, you are indeed a woman and not a virtual transvestite) should support the encouragement of this evil [I use this word advisedly] and backward legal system. (For a recent example, just try having a coffee with a male colleague in a Starbucks in Saudi Arabia).

Faceless Bureaucrat

As the man said... "Who will rid me of this turbulent Priest?" John Sentamu gets my vote!

Drusilla

Believe me, Max, I'm all woman. As for the Archbishop of Canterbury's speech, though, I don't for a moment agree that anything he suggests is likely to deprive me, even many years hence, of my, err, cherished freedom to buy overpriced coffee in the company of a male colleague, here or elsewhere. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree over what the Archbishop's speech means. I believe, however, that he was making two points. One was the suggestion that Sharia courts might be encompassed within the British legal system in a manner analogous to the Beth Din courts used by some Orthodox Jews here - in limited capacities, always subsidiary to the general law of the land. The second was a broader point about the relationship between an increasingly secularised legal framework and the religious beliefs and obligations of all sorts of faith groups, Anglicans included. Neither of these points strikes me as remotely alarming - on the contrary, both seem topical and worthy of further exploration - and certainly, neither seem worthy of the bile that's been spewed in the Archbishop's direction. For what it's worth, I largely blame the media. Frankly the slurry of ignorance, nastiness and hatred they've stirred up, all in the pursuit of flogging a few more papers, scares me a lot more than the idea of Sharia law does.

Trumpeter Lanfried

I have never understood anything Williams has said. His sentences are like toffee fudge wrapped in cotton wool. But I think he is genuinely trying to steer a middle course between good and evil.

Max Kaye

Drusilla, I agree with you that Starbuck's coffee is overpriced (and, in my opinion, vile). We'll have to agree to disagree about all the rest. From my first-hand experience of living and traveling in the ME and other Muslim countries, I'm sure that if you had ever lived under Sharia Law, you'd not be so flippant in your last sentence: our free media may at times be vile, but we are free to ignore it.

Larry

Here is what happens when Sharia law is implemented in a country with the support of an Anglican Bishop. http://www.afrol.com/articles/16722 Ask the bishops of the Anglican Communion why they turn a deaf ear to this travesty.

Laurie

He has failed the first principle of all religions which is, of course, "We're right and all the rest of you, to varying degrees, are wrong." Religious leaders need to be bigoted, narrow minded and absolutely convinced of their moral superiority. I think you should send aspiring candidates to Saudi Arabia or Iran to update their skills in this area!

Herbert Thornton

I'm intrigued by Trumpeter Lanfried's saying that Williams is "genuinely trying to steer a middle course between good and evil."

Well said, Trumpeter. I've seldom read a more classic example of damning by faint praise!

Tiberius

It is, for me, difficult to be judgemental over Rowan Williams' remarks despite my recognition of their wrong-headedness. I had a similar experience when my own parish priest shocked some of the congregation when he expressed the view in his sermon that the Pope had been injudicious to use that Byzantine text in his speech. Clearly Rowan Williams is misguided rather than malicious, as are many parish priests presiding over dwindling congregations. I entirely agree with Fraser that John Sentamu would make an excellent Archbishop of Canterbury, not only because he would relate successfully to the non-religious world, but because he would provide much-welcomed and renewed leadership to the Anglican Church, although the threatened divisions within it may open up somewhat more than they already have done.

Ray

Laurie - aren't atheists also "bigoted, narrow-minded and absolutely convinced of their own moral superiority" (which is presumably why they get such a buzz attacking Christians)? I respect the Archbishop's desire to spread tolerance and understanding. I just wish sometimes he'd consider his flock and pay more heed to the words of 1 Corinthians 14:8.

Max Kaye

Ray, Lucky for us atheists the Church has been neutered for some time. Islam, in contrast, is rampant. That's why all sensible people are concerned about it's growth and impact on British society. The ABC's 'desire to spread tolerance and understanding' is paving the road to hell with good intentions.

(BTW, I'm not Islamophobic: I don't have an irrational fear of Islam - I have totally rational fears).

Laurie

Ray no doubt there are some atheists who fit that description, but for me the difference is that it is not compulsory. I'm actually pretty easy going, if people want to believe in god that's fine as long as they don't try to impose their ideology or morality on me, or pretend that they have scientific evidence when they don't. My basic point is that all religions have a fundamental flaw at their heart. By their very nature they have to believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. You might say the same thng about atheists but we have no compelling reason to act upon our belief. The standard example of atheism gone wrong is the Soviet Union. Fair enough but now list the examples of religion gone wrong. British history is full of butchery done in the name of religion before we even look anywhere else. The primary differences between Islam and Christianity are social, not religious.