The brain drain goes into overdrive

Matt

Answer.... well First Time buyers (graduates) are finding it extremely hard, tax, communiting and who in their right mind wants to live and work in London on £20,000? Ok, ok, I live here but have enjoyed living in Germany and Austrialia. The question should be how many of the 1.26m return to their families? Matt

David

Well that's interesting. The report in the Times highlighted how the brain drain was countered by the people coming here, and thought it a positive that so amy Brits were able to go worldwide with their skills.

Bruce Robertson

Why? Try: Impossible house prices; BTL hell; appalling transport; dropping real wages.

Matt

Answer.... well First Time buyers (graduates) are finding it extremely hard, tax, commuting and who in their right mind wants to live and work in London on £20,000? Ok, ok, I live here but have enjoyed living in Germany and Australia. The question should be how many of the 1.26m return to their families? Matt

Allen

Both of the above comments are true, in that immigration is positive, British people should be able to travel wherever and work, and that getting settled and being financially secure is a realtive mountain to climb. Consider an average university graduate (who begun university in 2007). He or She would leave with £9000 debt plus interest for tuition fees; a further £9000 plus interest for a student loan, plus any other debts collected en route (say £9000 for accomodation). Should that student wish to take post-graduate course, add another £1000 plus expenses. If their parents earn over about £40000pa(?) combined, means testing means that the student gets nothing from the government. If the parents choose not to help their charge, then the student leaves university with £40,000 debt, all gaining interest now above inflation. With property costing as much as it does, in the next few years as these students start to graduate, the market may be in for an even tougher ride. Thats a reason to leave. Well done, New Labour.

Fraser Nelson

David, lets take high-skilled people alone. For every 100 that leave Britain, 105 high-skilled immigrants come. So yes, replacement. But where we should he heading is the US where 1,600 high-skilled immigrants settle for every 100 who leave.

Jane

It is unhelpful to quote a section of the report to denigate the country. As David mentions (above) having read The Times we appear to have more highly educated individuals entering the country than those leaving. Why on earth is this an issue? Globalisation means there will always be a vast movement of peoples. I am off to read the report in full as I am disappointed when the media does not report the full facts.

Simon Hayes Budgen

What a wonderful recommendation for our nation's education system that it turns out so many bright young people whose skills are in demand across the globe. Thank you for the cheery news, Fraser. Seriously: You don't think cheaper and faster air links might have had a factor in increasing the rate of migration?

The Morning Post

Answer New Labour. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown of course! For example. In what other country bar those in Africa and Asia is the leadership of a country passed on by private arrangement in late night restaurant meetings or the take over of failing banks negotiated on the Prime Ministers plane to china? The mother of democracies? I dont think so do you?

Joan

Its not just the young, guys, its older and wealthier professionals with skills and experience who are bored with the costs, inefficiencies, incompetent and rapacious bureaucracy, democratic deficit, ageism, plague hospitals etc.

Joan

Its not just the young, guys, its older and wealthier professionals with skills and experience who are bored with the costs, inefficiencies, incompetent and rapacious bureaucracy, democratic deficit, ageism, plague hospitals etc.

Neil

These figures may, of course, have nothing to do with people deliberately fleeing New Labour but be the result of the success of the European Union. Never before has it been so easy to live and work, buy property and generally operate in another European country, thanks to the success of the Internal Market. And while the eurosceptic luddites start foaming at the mouth every time "Brussels" is mentioned, like one of Pavlov's dogs, cleverer people are enjoying the benefits the EU has brought.

Dave B

Neil, if you read the report, you'll see the emigrants are mostly going to english speaking countries, not EU ones.

THX1138

Not on BA they won't.

Ben

Most people leaving are fed up with Labour and are therefore would have been potential Conservative voters.

And we are getting in return mainly potential Labour voters. Why shouldn't they vote Labour when they get such an easy ride in this country.

No wonder the tories are struggling to get a substantial lead in the polls

Verity

I left before I was subjected to any of the brutalisation of Blair's "New" Labour/"old communism". I wouldn't go back on a bet. The bullying, nomenklatura-type government - with an unelected prime minister, yet! - the socialist government assumption that it is the boss of the electorate; the breakdown in civil order; the wrecking of our Constitution, the vicious determination to destroy our national identity, and all the rest. Plus the awesome expense of living in public-sector laden Britain.

john sheppard

We left the moment we retired . Britain under Labour is finished and will be a third world country in less than five years. I advise any one able to get out to leave as soon as possible before Comrade Brown introduces a departure tax

David Davis

Four million video camerae to watch 60 million people. Then, about the same number are on the "DNA database" (it should be burnt, all the copies of it, and (all) the hard disks ritually smashed, in front of Churchill's statue in Parliament Square.) One camera for every 15 people; the Stasi never even had these resources. Now they will do you for "illegally parking", without even a concentration camp guard (sorry, a "warden") even having to be present. What a disgustingly evil, venal, wicked caucus of people we have allowed to (a) rule us and (b) take money from us through these rulers to tormment us with. I bet you all 5p that they degraded the education system deliberately, so they could bring these orcs into being around us, for them. No wonder those who were born here, and who love the place, and who can still leave because they can, are leaving.

Sean Fear

Well, one potential bright spot it this. If we vote Labour out, perhaps some of these people will return, thus boosting the ranks of those who want to keep Labour out.

Gerard

South Africa can probably compete with this. Over a million of the better-educated population live outside the country!

Kevin

Most of my fellow professionals have either left or are planning to leave the UK-- these are creme-de-la-creme types, often Oxbridge, self-starters, entrepreneurs and so forth. France and Spain are of course big destinations, but increasingly Germany is a destination du jour for professional emigres. What's interesting is that the reason for leaving isn't high taxes in Britain *per se*-- many of our destinations are also high-tax (and for anyone who calls the USA or Australia low-tax-- just try starting a business there, business taxes even worse than in most of Europe). Rather, it's the perception that Britain has extremely high tax whilst delivering a lot of sweet nothing for what we're paying. British infrastructure is one of the worst in Europe, public transportation is awful, litter clogs the streets, and our hard-earned tax dollars for putting in ridiculous hours go to pay for what is increasingly a police state. We're forced to pay ridiculous fines and are constantly being monitored for minor parking or traffic infractions, or just putting up a sign by our business in the wrong direction, while crime runs rampant and the police do nothing to halt it. Granted, the UK does not have anywhere near the deadly crime waves and levels of mass murder, gun violence or otherwise that plague the USA-- seems to be a new mass-shooting of the month there. And Australia and New Zealand have their own problems with yob culture. In fact with the weak dollar in the USA, I've if anything being seeing a "reverse brain drain" from the USA these days, back to Europe-- mostly of Europeans already but even native-born Americans. It's not worth it for them to stay there, deal with the crime and traffic in US cities and get paid less for their efforts. But the combination of high taxes and terrible public services, a creeping police state, overcrowding, prohibitive housing prices and a lack of civic pride are driving us in Britain elsewhere. Germany has its taxes, but the cities there are remarkable, even the medium-sized ones-- clean, very efficient public transportation, friendly, low-crime, wonderful architecture and just an intellectual place overall. Lots of civic pride and an aspiration to accomplishment. Plus German schools are bar none, among the world's top universities and elementary schools alike. I'm suspecting this is why so many of my old colleagues have lately been taking up German language lessons and preparing to move there, especially the highly-educated and professional set. As for me, I'm more inclined toward something like a posting in Dubai or Hong Kong, or probably France or Belgium if I stick around in Europe. But I'm not staying here, it's just not the place where I want to raise my children.

Brian Birdnow

Kevin, You are right when you say that America has very high business taxes... they are among the highest in the world and will go still higher when the Democrats win the elections in November. As to your contention that we have a mass murder problem in America, the statistics show an alarming upsurge of crimes committed by illegal immigrants many of which are violent in nature. Most of these crimes are committed by people using firearms, usually in strict gun-controlled jurisdictions!

Kathleen Guillaume

I'm well-educated & experienced but can't return to Scotland (left 1979), after 3 years' of job interviews conducted mainly by wee grey men in politburo suits.

Dr Lol

Kevin,
I think you are wrong with regard to taxes in the US. I am a small business owner and I pay a huge amount of tax. I have looked into what I would pay in the US with a similar business and it is about half. I am taxed, taxed and taxed again here in the UK. There is no respite and no reward. Labour are up to there old tricks of tax, spend, then borrow when they have reached the limits of what they can tax. I live in South Manchester/ North Cheshire which I believe is one of the best places to live in the UK. Yet in our road we have had a violent armed robbery, my cars stolen off my drive, a relatives car smashed into last week outside the house, regular burglaries. Bicycles stolen. So we all now have to have high security gates. What do the police do when something happens. They wait until its over and then come. There is a general atmosphere of violence in the UK. The streets are full of feral youths in black track suits with the hoods up. Challenge one of these guys and you could be murdered.
In the US I think perhaps the main worry for ordinary people is the trend for disaffected youths to go into a school or college and try to mow down as many students and staff as possible before commiting suicide. it seems like this happens a few times a year and most schools now have cops and metal detectors which helps a little for day to day small stuff but doesn't dissuade motivated psyhcos. In general though on my many trips to the US and having lived there I felt safe. Far safer than in the UK.
There is far more civic pride in the US than here where it is non-existent. Drive past any suburb and the flags fly, roads are clean.
The US is a land of extremes and there is something for everyone. You can live very cheaply there and have a great lifestyle. The universities are outstanding. The direction that New Labour is taking Britain is not a pretty one. Maybe its time to leave.

gaz

Well everyone, I'm in the third year of my degree and cant wait for it to be over. I will be moving immediately abroad. I have two teenage sons who are both of the same idea, one to study medicine the other teaching. Having travelled substantially over the years to all corners of the globe, I can honestly say that Britain is not only the most expensive country to live in, but also the one with nothing to come home to. Mr Blair was responsible for this, and Mr Brown is fueling it, tax,tax,tax, to keep those MP's with their massive allowances, massive cars, and second homes. A recent visit to India showed tha tthe road system, the mentallity of the people and the freedom was so much more superior than that of this Country. I predict that within 5-10 years Britain will be like India 50 years ago, and India what Britain should have been like. Well done Labour you really have screwed this Country well and good