The rendition row
Peter Hoskin 1:52pm
David Miliband has confirmed that two US rendition flights – carrying suspected terrorists – stopped on UK territory in the Indian Ocean, in 2002. There had previously been “no evidence” of the flights, and the Foreign Secretary assured the House that previous assurances about rendition flights had been made in “good faith”.The Government’s efforts are now directed at preventing the story spinning out of control. Miliband stressed that the Americans hadn’t purposefully misled the British Government on this, but had instead made an “error” during a “records search”. And much was made of the “vital role” that the US plays in helping the UK combat terrorism.
Nonetheless, this is deeply embarrassing for both governments, and there are still questions that need to be more fully answered. William Hague identified most of them – why has this only come to light now? Have the Americans made administrative changes to prevent this happening in future? etc. etc.
But it’s the timing of this story that’s particularly disastrous for the government. Coming out in the same week as the first draft of the “dodgy dossier” it once again dredges up “this huge stuff about trust”. The public’s reaction will tell us how much of that was dealt with by Blair’s departure.
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David Davis
February 21st, 2008 4:05pm Report this commentThe USA is on our side in the battle for civilisation against barbarism in (all) its forms. Why should we not allow it to move suspects to its homeland, through ours? I'm sorry - I may be thick, but I can't see a problem. Some cultures legally behead living humans. I believe that to be worse than shipping themn to the land of their enemies to interrogate them under some pressure. I'm not certain that either we or the US butcher living people.
Herbert Thornton
February 21st, 2008 5:03pm Report this commentWhat a storm in a teacup - and all because some people are so silly that to them, even failing to provide a terrorist with a nicely served morning cup of tea while he's still in bed would amount to 'torture'.
If we can help the U.S. to carry out a rendition we should do it gladly, because it is the right thing to do.
salieri
February 21st, 2008 6:13pm Report this commentThe issue raised by this post wasn't actually whether rendition is illegal or unnecessary but why both governments continue to lie about it if it isn't. When Bliar's bunch told us they knew nothing about it no-one believed them at the time, and in so many instances McBean's own protestations of ignorance (e.g. the City's 'approval' of his heinously stupid pension fund raid, or his sale of the gold reserves) have come unravelled in time. The sad thing is that it might even be true this time that Nu-Uk Ltd. was not kept informed but, like Matilda, they will simply not be believed. And, as in all those other cases, we can bet there are more 'revelations' to come. The issue is institutionalised mendacity.
Chuck Unsworth
February 21st, 2008 6:16pm Report this commentOnly two? Come off it Miliband, and the rest, eh! We should not descend to aiding and abetting American sponsored and supported barbarity. The presumption of innocence before trial is paramount, as is the proper treatment of all prisoners - including those captured on the battle field. The civilisation of any nation is measured by how it treats its captured and imprisoned foes. If America believes these people are guilty of some criminal acts, or acts of war, it should immediately put them on public trial. Let us hear the evidence. What possible justification is there for prolonged imprisonment and torture without trial?
Verity
February 21st, 2008 6:40pm Report this commentDavid Davis and Herbert Thornton, damn' straight!
Austin Barry
February 21st, 2008 8:00pm Report this commentRendition. Who cares? The US can waterboard these characters on Brighton Beach for all most of the fed-up-to-the back-teeth populace care. It's just a hand-wringing exercise for superannuated sixth-formers and appeasement monkeys.
Fergus Pickering
February 21st, 2008 9:52pm Report this commentDo people on this blog really believe we should torture people because we are civilised and they are barbaric? Are they stupid or wicked or both?
TGF UKIP
February 21st, 2008 10:25pm Report this commentNo, Salieri, the issue is much bigger than "institutionalised mendacity." It really is whether the democratic, judeo-christian West is prepared to acknowledge and face the threat it is under. What is truly frightening is the extent to which the political establishment of this country and most of Europe is unwilling to take off the gloves to take on the terrorists. And I would remind all you Tories that the Dave gang has been every bit as bad as the LibDems and the the Labour backbenches on this. Osama and his many many friends must be laughing their wotsits off.
Ilya
February 21st, 2008 10:59pm Report this commentIt is unbelievable that it takes an US official to make our ministers what is happening on British soil. Our alliance with the USA should benefit both countries and we should make our voice heard not neglected and refute all efforts to undermine our sovereignty over our territory. The same applies to the EU.
Herbert Thornton
February 22nd, 2008 4:02am Report this commentFergus asks - "Do people on this blog really believe we should torture people because we are civilised and they are barbaric?"
Of course that isn't the reason. Fergus should not make up silly stories about what goes on in other peoples' minds.
We make terrorists swallow castor oil (or waterboard them if that's been found to work better these days than the WW2 methods) because we need to get vital information from them - to help protect the lives of people like him.
Chuck Unsworth
February 22nd, 2008 9:42am Report this comment@ Herbert Thornton. You seriously believe that 'information' extracted by such means is accurate? All of the known authorities in interrogation and interrogation techniques would disagree. Care to cite a source which scientifically supports this assertion?
David Lindsay
February 22nd, 2008 4:57pm Report this commentNow that some attention is being paid to Diego Garcia, just Google for "Ascension Island Councillor Lawson Henry". This disgraceful state of affairs is only made even worse by the lack of media attention. Of course, it was The Finchley Boadicea, alleged Protectress of the British Overseas Territories, who took away Saint Helenians' British Citizenship (now restored) in the first place, making herself known to them as "Maggie Thatcher, The Passport Snatcher". In this, she was as patriotic as she was over the Single European Act, the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the Exchange Rate Mechanism, the Falklands (at least until the Argentines took her at her word and actually moved in), Grenada, and so much else besides.
Herbert Thornton
February 22nd, 2008 8:44pm Report this commentChuck - If you're going to phrase you question like that, you should tell us who "All of the known authorities" - as you call them - are.
My opinion is that there's only one test - do things like castor oil and waterboarding work? And that it's obvious that if they didn't work they wouldn't be used.
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