Time for a British Manley Commission?

Dewi

But surely this will effectively take the pressure off the government until (at least) after the next election.

Henry Rogers

"....The Brown Government is simply not trusted to give an honest assessment of what is happening on the ground or give the military what it needs....."

I think it rather follows that no commission appointed by the current administration will be trusted either. In any case, for better or for worse, Lord Ashdown isn't seen by all around as one whose every word is to be hung on. And the IPPR isn't seen as the fount of all wisdom by everyone either.

Frankly, abandoning responsibility to those who are no longer elected wouldn't get Brown out of a mess for which he is going to get much of the blame.

strapworld

Just what are The Spectator trying to do?

This discredited labour Government should not be given any ideas whatsoever. They have brought this upon themselves. And the thought of having Paddy Pantsdown pontificating yet again will drive me to drink.

What a utter pompous ass he is.

Short the UK

Is not the fundamental problem that the political and media elite are strong believers in the Afghan project. Intellectually they have a fixed mindset and thus the rhetoric becomes more shrill and ludicrous in defence of a failing policy.

The opposition have barely questioned the mission and Liam Fox's rhetoric is as bad as New Labour's. His column in the Times shows a man out of touch with hard reality.

The only dude I have seen on the telly hitting the nail is Rory Stewart.

It just pi**** me off that "our boys" are getting blown up whilst our patheitc elite twiddle their thumbs.

It is a very sad situation.

All we need is LEADERSHIP. Pretty tough when the consensus is wrong and the leaders are sub standard. So, another talking shop must be the solution. Boom, boom.

Disorganised1

Well I thought it was a good idea Daniel, and I think our armed forces would think so too.

We need a policy in Afghanistan, not a confluence of rhetoric.

TrevorsDen

Such a commission sounds like a good pre election ploy for the Conservatives.

Labour stumbled in to this war without any clear aim apart from seeking kudos on the world stage. If the Defence Staff did not spell the consequences out to them they were negligent. If they did then Labour have been shown to be cavalier.

Steve.W

Quote - “If the government wants to stem the haemorrhaging of elite support for NATO’s Afghan mission.”

Elite support, what does that mean, bugger the voter?

George Laird

Dear Daniel

Rebuild support for the afghan war, why?

We lost it.

We should never have invade in the first place.

The troops need to get out and leave.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

Henry Rogers

Disorganized1

We certainly do need a policy, but we need it from elected representatives whom we can sack if they cock things up.

Quietly taking advice and weighing that advice up is one thing but leaving major policy decisions to a Commission would be quite another. Politicians sheltering behind Wise Old Men or Wise Old Women (WOMs & WOWs perhaps?) are dodging their responsibilities.

And if Brown feels he now lacks the authority to make major decisions himself he could always seek a new mandate before this parliament expires.

Philip Hotton

Paddy Ashdown would be a good choice for such a commision as he has a military background, the current leadership has I believe no experience of military service, neither does it seem to have any empathy for what our troops are undergoing, they the politicians continue to make noises, whilst our courageous young men are giving their lives for a situation that many believe is of no benefit to UK, will we really make UK any safer by increasing the enmity of the entire muslim world for our activities in afganistan and Iraq, we should relearn our history we have been defeated twice in Afganistan and the afgans beat the largest military force bar the chinese,the Russians, how many lives and what cost did the russian military spend in afganistan. we should get out before we loose any more of the cream of our military in trying to recover another failed nation, will this be our vietnam ?, or our Sudan?, we can no longer afford imperialistic actions unless we get greater support from other Nato states, I ask, where are other Nato countries we give a disproportianate amount of money and blood to this cause, and does our current leadership give a S*** !! I think not, Brown must lead with a key minister, give this war the attention and the financial support it needs, I am sick of seeing coffins whilst our politicians pontificate, and continue to line their pockets whilst our young men and women give their lives, truly they are lions lead by Arseholes

TrevorsDen

I sometimes think Defence of the realm and EU Referendum have too big a chip on their shoulder. But the story re. helicopter they they relate today just about sums up the ineptness of our military effort.

http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2009/07/in-class-of-its-own.html

One point of the story (via The Sun) is that helicopters (Lynx) are leaving, have left, the theatre not entering it.

Does anyone really care to believe a word this government says?

frank goddard

I think that some of you on this forum should read that excellent article in last Friday's Times by Matthew Parrish.To me this proved once and for all that we will not win in Afghanistan.The country is vast and ruled by warlords in their own regions with their own ideaologies.Their allegiance to the Taleban can change over night as the Taleban are everywhere as Matthew pointed out.The infrastructure is poor the country is mountainous the regions are large.I did not know that camp Holland was in one of thse regions with 2000 Nato troops (Dutch and Australians)there.How many other camps with small pockets of troops are there? We never hear of these!!!!How can we win when there are no goverment agencies following into these areas behind the troops? So many questions to ask and it would take years and agreat loss of lives.The Taleban will always be there to pick up the pieces by intimidation or other means.
We are a country sacrificing our young men who are trained to defend our sovereignty,our borders.They are not miles from our shores,just to satisfy the notion of a few stupid politicians that we will be attacked in our streets.If our borders are properly manned this will never happen.If our immigration policeis are properly adapted it will never happen.If our refugee and asylum problemwith the UN is re-written it will never happen.If our Human rights laws with the EU are re-written it will never happen.Our involvement in Afghanistan has NOW to be run down,and a GE has NOW to take place.
Gordon Brown has had his chances,and he has failed utterly on so many issues.He is on the wrong track again with Afghanistan and our troops are dying for it,they are not defending the realm.If theyhave to die,and Brown and his cohorts are right,then let them die on their own streets and their own land,not in some worthless non strategic arid foreign country who do not want western democracy,purveyed thro'out the world by US agencies.
Today was a sad day seeing all those coffins,Blair and Brown have a lot to answer for,and I am surprised that a few Speccie Journo's are going along with it.
Frank G...English pensioner

Rhoda Klapp

Leaving out the wisdom of being there, which should be a subject in its own right, let's look at Korski's suggestion. What it does is to put all the influence into the hands of a couple of trans-nationalists, totally outside the proper UK political process. Like all of Korski's suggestions. NATO's military and civil strategy seems to have lost its way. Let's see them redefine the mission, explain the strategy, then the UK, that is parliament and the electorate will be able to work out what we can handle, and indeed how much we can afford.

Cogito Ergosum

In the middle of the Great War, 1916, we did not mess about with Committees of Enquiry: we changed the Prime Minister.

That's what we need now.

Francis

"the haemorrhaging of elite support for NATO’s Afghan mission"

The SAS are unhappy?

"Given the excellent work undertaken by Paddy Ashdown and George Robertson on the IPPR’s National Security Commission,"

Useless lefty drivel about running down the military.

"why not ask them to take a proactive look at British operation"

Because they would come out with more useless left wing drivel.

Stephen

On Defence the IPPR was rather a poor document and totally illogical. To summarise it said the world is likely to become a more dangerous place and the US a less reliable ally, so it is safe to cutback on Defence spending. We should co-operate more with European allies to develop a broad range of European defence capabilities. The UK's contribution to these broad capabilities would be to cut back those capabilities which Europe as a whole is weak in, primarily big ticket naval capabilities, and focus on those which Europe has in abundance, infantry and helicopters. The point on how relaible our European allies are likely to prove (and have proved in Afghanistan) and the will they have to use those assets was skipped over.

If anything, the IPPR report shows its authors as the wrong people to be doing a review of British Defence needs.

Mike

I couldn't agree more but this presupposes we have a prime minister willing to listen, read and accept their findings. To date Brown has totally ignored all advice from experts ranging from pension provisioning, local taxes, transport and especially equipping our military in a proper manner. Leopards don't change their spots and Brown is too old and entrenched in his archaic and twisted views that any report would be kicked into the long grass. Until a new PM of sound mind takes over we might as well forget it.