The war on Dannatt continues

strapworld

Mr Hoskin, what a weasel sentence you write "I SUSPECT he's more in the right"

I believe that any attack by labour on General Dannant will be another shot in their feet.

The vast majority of the public will be on the General's side and will give Labour politicians short shrift should they attempt this, especially in the safety of the House of Comons!

What I want to see is ALL newspapers publish the names of any member of parliament/minister etc who gives a quote. I find the practice of 'A Senior Labour MP', 'A Minister said','A spokesman' etc. etc. etc.

It is an affront to our democracy.

Pete-s

The video clip showed Broon at his usual evasive self. A dishonest man acting in his usual dishonest way. What a lump of slime, he and his gov are!

Pete Hoskin

strapworld: I was trying to be understated - the link does actually go to a post of mine where I'm more overstated, so it's not like I'm on the opposite side of the argument from you. Apologies if that's not clear above.

Chuck Unsworth

'Senior Labour Sources', eh? Enough said, I think. Name a single 'Senior Labour Source' with the slightest honour, decency and integrity.

What these idiots don't seem to understand is that Dannatt is not on on exercises, he's at war - and so far he's winning. He's taken on NuLab and its placemen in MoD, and they have been exposed for exactly what they are. It's rare for a CGS to make such observations whilst still in post - and Dannatt should be commended for having the sense and courage to do so.

But, as always, Labour would rather attack the man than the ball. They would rather indulge in petty politics than actually dealing with the underlying problem. The difference this time is that their actions will result in severe blowback. For a Minister to speak as you report is, frankly, disgusting. But it does once again graphically demonstrate the mindset of the most senior politicians in the Government. The public will recognise exactly what is going on.

How's recruitment going these days?

Rhoda Klapp

What 'senoir labour figures' would attack a man with an MC for doing his job as he sees it? (I don't think Dannat has done the right thing all the time, especially with regard to procurement, but I support him in this).

Name names. This is dirty play, I see no reason why they should be protected by the lobby. Scum.

Pete Hoskin

strapworld: Have changed "suspect" to "think": don't know if that works better for you. But - trust me - I share your anger over all this.

Nicholas

"One minister said"

Which minister? Why do Labour ministers and mouthpieces hide behind cowardly anonymity when conducting their nasty attacks against those who dissent from their propaganda and/or tell the truth? Rhetorical question. We know the answer. Because they are despicable shits.

The veiled threats and pre-emptive spin are entirely typical of this bullying clique of gangsters and extortionists but nevertheless unbecoming for the government of the country.

Pete Hoskin

Rhoda et al, I should stress for clarity's sake: I don't know who the Labour sources are in this...

Mitch

Heard Dannant on Today this morning and was particularly unimpressed. Just used tired management phrases.

Why is he producing a 'shopping list' at the end of his term? Wouldn't it have been more use at the beginning, or anytime since?

Whonickedmyhair?

Given the choice to believe the General or the Govt, which has questions over its honesty, is tired unpopular and in its third term, I guess the public will side with...... Looks like another own goal to me.

Jonathan Cook

Several things seem clear to me:

1. Dannatt is acting in the interests of his men and their safety, and not in his own personal interest.

2. The government are prepared to use their Smear Unit against Dannatt.

3. Gordon Brown has an instinctive dislike of the armed services. He allows his own bile to damage the best interests of the country.

4. Dannatt is leaving and diplomatic relations with a government who he believes are failing the troops is no longer important. He is now no doubt airing issues that he has been raising in private behind closed doors, which the government have been rebuffing.

5. Dannatt is right. The government are wrong.

6. It is as stupid for a government to get on the wrong side the armed forces as it would be for them to get on the wrong side of nurses and doctors.

Rhoda Klapp

Does Dannat have a little man, a lance-corporal should be about right, who sidles up to lobby journos and gives them unattributable stuff about 'senior labour figures' and what goes on in MoD meetings?

No? You mean he just says out loud what he thinks, in public?

No wonder they don't see eye-to-eye.

Vulture

Absolutely right, Strapworld. If Nu Liebour try their usual smear and lies tactics on Gen. Dannatt they will not only
increase (if that is possible) the public contempt in which they are held - they will get in a fight they cannot win.

Only one profession comes close to the armed forces in enjoying public respect and affection - and that is nursing. So if Liebour want to be even more hated than they are already, go ahead and try and trash Dannatt.

They are despicable scum unfit to lick the sand of Afghanistan off a squaddie's bootsoles.

Ray

How many of the laddish, beer-swillin' press-briefers who inhabit New Labour's command bunker have ever dodged real bullets, as Dannatt has in Northern Ireland (where he won the Military Cross), Bosnia and Kosovo?

MattsDad

If General Dannatt has the courage of his convictions to say in public what his forces require to do the job of their political masters, then it shows in stark relief the absolute cowardice of such 'labour sources' who can't even bring themselves to stand by whatever convictions they have and argue in the open.

As for government ministers saying he is 'fair game' absolute shame on you. Who are you? If you had an ounce of the courage and bravery of Sir Dannatt and his men and women, you wouldn't be hiding behind pathetic weasly words.

I have never been as angry as I am now with this useless, self-serving government.

Your day of reckoning draws near. I just wish it were tomorrow.

TrevorsDen

Browns performance before the committee and his innuendo over the extra 2000 troops was utterly disgraceful.

Either that or shatteringly incompetent.

But what Brown did not say or make clear was that when 'options' were discussed and where presumably each option required a different troop level, he did not confirm that the option decided upon had the appropriate troop level.

One cannot help but think that if that was the case he would be happily making that clear.

I consider that the present situation has numerous analogies to WW1. Maybe I will blog on that - but in both cases politicians set the army a task but baulked at suffering the resulting casualties.
In both cases the Army had to overcome new and difficult tactical problems and found themselves under equipped.
In both cases at key times govts withheld troops from theatre.

Unlike WW1 this govt and the MoD is being slow/incompetent at resolving the tactical problems it faces.

Irene

This is ever so slightly off topic - but I am seeing a pettern forming - last weekend through to monday the press, TV, media were full of Afghanistan and the 8 soldiers killed - lunchtime monday up pops Liam Donaldson announcing 2 more deaths from swine flu, a six year old who died the previous thursday and a GP who died on the saturday - the media switched to covering the swine flu - yesterday Brown was getting a hammering, the funeral of Rupert Thorneloe was being televised and again up pops Donaldson with new cases of swine flu - again the story switched slightly from Brown and most of the todays papers are leading with swine flu - the timing to me was no coincidence or am I being paranoid.

IH

MattsDad - my thoughts exactly

The Bellman

Christ, this government is a disgraceful, incompetent mess. It's not like they are short of enemies, so one wonders why they feel the urge to make more? But then you remember that they are a bunch of adolescent JCR hacks who run a country like a union social committee, and this sort of politicking is pretty much the limit for them.

To most people, it will demonstrate, once again, that men like General Dannatt occupy a vastly different moral universe, one in which their methods have no currency. So if it makes them feel better to demean a man who has given his country thirty-odd years of quiet, loyal service, then let them lay on; but let those who do so, do it openly. And let those who report their petty backbiting attribute names to the innuendo. It will do nothing more for their political fortunes than add yet another chapter to their inglorious history, in which their utter inability to distinguish between party interest and national interest is again exposed.

Steve.W

With a month to go before retirement General Dannatt 'speaks out', poor timing General. I hope, for his sake, the book he intends to write is excellent.

Bruce, UK

"senior Labour figures" - traitors and cowardly traitors at that.

r

In the eighteenth century, Dannatt would probably have challenged Brown to a duel, and then shot him at dawn on Putney Heath.

Frank P

Irene

"... the timing to me was no coincidence or am I being paranoid?"

Only if you use this Government's lexicon, wherein paranoia = sussing out their duplicity and spin.

As for Dannat: he's dannat, been there and got the MC shirt. How can anybody from this measly, dying administration say anything to discredit him that won't rebound collectively on the government; in fact the anonymity of the source makes it inevitable. So the more 'anonymous' sources the better in this regard, eh Pete? :-)

2trueblue

Interesting that Brown did not have his usual tractor statistics ready? The truth is that we have a bloated ministry of defence and that is where the money goes.
It is like everyting else since Labour has come to power, a very inflated bunch of peole who are in management roles and a lot of hot air. They are great with talk and initiatives but short on real delivey and actually doing the job. Spin, spin, spin.
Remember Dr Kelly?

logdon

"One minister said: 'Once he’s gone, we can have a go at him. He can write his book and talk all he wants, but he’ll be fair game then.'

He's not the only one. They're next.

These people talk and act as if they're the only ones allowed to do so. That they are protected by some imaginary bubble when in reality, they live, like Michael Jackson in a world of fantasy, immortal until the actuality of mortality hits.

Dannat airs his well honed and considered views and they're on him like a ton of bricks. How dare he contradict our dear leader, is the message we're getting here.

Don't these cretins realise it's over?

That the public is well and truly appraised of and appalled by their tactics and greed?

More lies than honesty. More politicking than national good. Career zombies who are not fit to even lick the boots of this general.

This is Blair’s war. All glory but no reality. A miasma of spin and mission creep. They love the idea of sending our troops to far away places to bring stability and a western idea of equality yet their ingrained ideology will not allow the essential marrow of war to intrude in that process.

Here’s one. I read of Labours phoney public stance on the so called battle against drugs yet our troops are ordered to stand by and not interfere as miles and miles of opiate producing poppy’s are grown and harvested by Afghani farmers. We cannot deprive them of a livelihood is the stance, meanwhile our cities are awash with cheap heroin which kills, ruins lives and helps create the ‘Broken Britain’ IDS has put so much effort and soul searching into in his investigations.

That analogy applies equally to the war effort. No thought of consequence. In the pecking order the squaddy is ground zero. Cannon fodder, sating and massaging the ego’s of ex trade union aparatchiks and self seeking dullards.

We have to decide what this war is all about. Initialy as massive and punitive symbolic punishment, don’t mess with Uncle Sam, and quite right too.

Now what? An ‘I’d like to teach the world to sing’ social worker outreach?

If this is Labour’s way of fighting a war whose aims change depending on which talking head minister chucks his or her oar in, we are doomed to fail. It is a ghastly rerun of Apocalypse Now, now.

Meanwhile the likes of Dannat, a senior General who has the sheer affrontery to demand the tools to achieve his political masters will is hung out to dry.

This is as low as it gets.

Cjamesk

Name these cowardly "sources" or is that too much to ask?!

Alan Eastwood

I thought you may be interested in this email I sent to one Labour MP (Former Shop Steward).Following a quote he gave about General Dannatt. To date I have had no reply, although I did send a reminder!!

crausbyd@parliament.uk

date12 July 2009 13:38
subjectGeneral Dannatt
mailed-bygooglemail.com

12 Jul (5 days ago)
Dear Mr Crausby.

I have read of your criticism of General Dannatt.

""David Crausby, a Labour member of the Commons defence committee, added: 'It is not appropriate to play party politics at this time. Dannatt should just get on with the job. After the conflict, if there are lessons to be learnt, we should do so in a considered manner.'""

You, sir, are playing politics with the lives of our young men and women. AND as a very proud father of a son in the armed services, who served in Iraq and is now awaiting to go to Afghanistan, I object in the most strongest terms to your criticism of this most honourable of men. I am damned sure if either of your two fine sons were serving your attitude would be completely different. (It would be interesting to know just how many of your fellow Labour MP's have served in the armed services or have family who are!)

If you had a tenth of this man's guts you would be demanding better equipment i.e. helicopters and vehicles NOW not sometime in the future - which, to me, appears to be the Labour Party way, make a statement, cross your fingers and hope it comes about!

The General has been consistent in his demands for more troops, more helicopters etc. The Labour Government
have been consistent in their refusal. I would like to know where your military knowledge comes from. Certainly not, I would suspect,from your position as a convenor at the Amalgamated Engineering and Electrical Union.

Just what do you mean 'IF there are Lessons to be learnt' Just how many dead soldiers do you need before YOU act for them?

You may appreciate that I am angry. I am, with you, your government, which I regard as the worst this Country has ever seen.The illegal wars, The lies and the sheer contempt you and your ilk are showing towards the people of this Country.

Your remarks are a disgrace. You are putting party before the lives of our men and women. General Dannatt was putting his responsibility, his DUTY OF CARE, towards his men and women, before self! Now that I admire.

Where is the Labour Party's DUTY OF CARE to our armed services?

They deserve better than this!
_______________________

This man is a member of the Commons Defence Select Committee.

I do hope all families of servicemen/women and retired veterans in his constituency will give this man the treatment he deserves. THE SACK!

Pat

Steve.W

General Dannatt has 'spoken out' throughout his service and is rightly revered throughout the Army. He is a man of honour with a deep regard for the welfare of the men and women he leads. Your remark is not only inaccurate but highly insulting.

EC

This is terrible.

It's about time HM Queen dismissed this lousy government and called an election. The EU constitition (er Lisbon Treaty) should be justification enough let alone all the other stuff that has gone down in recent months.

Get the buggers recalled from their summer holidays at their own expense and let's have an election AND a referendum.

We want a referendum on Lisbon Dave!

Chuck Unsworth

@ Steve.W

And your point is? Maybe you think he should never speak out? At least he's doing something, which is more than can be said of many.

andrew@la-drutiere.com

r - how I long for those days!

This bunch of lying cowards would have been wiped out years ago.

Nicholas

I thought Brown's body language and vindictive facial expression in the clip were revealing. I found his "performance" repulsive and disgusting. The man is a devious, lying, malevolent poltroon.

Florence Nightingale

Last night ,during a discussion on Sky News of today's newspapers
,Kelvin McKenzie had no hesitation in naming the Minister who, in his opinion, made the unsavoury remarks about General Dannatt. The chap he named is an ex-Shop Steward in a car factory, and has a little bit of muck under his nose which purports to be a moustache. It is frightening to consider his role in Govt. and I thank God every day that my son, who served in the first Gulf war, is no longer in the Army.

Laurence Hodge

Any "war on Dannatt" will de facto be a war waged against RUSI. Mission creep?

David Leaver

I rang David Crausby's (a Bolton MP who think's Dannatt shouldn't be involving himself in politics)saying as I wasn't a constituent I wasn't to phone his office.I'll make a deal Mr Crausby. You concern yourself with the good folk of Bolton and don't get involved with spouting about matters of national interest and I won't phone your office.And by the way Mr Crausby I hope the renovations to your second home are going well: money well spent I'd say.

Daveyone

don Brown has not been elected as Prime Minister he was not even voted for as Labour leader by his party, he did not put a Labour candidate up against David Davis last year so how can someone with such a disregard for democracy have any further ligitamacy in office?
In addition to the financial mistakes this guy, who spent 10 years at the top of the treasury, has left us with he has also brought words into our vocabluary such as Starlinist Brown, Orwellian and Soviet Britain so he has well passed his sell by date and needs to go to the country TODAY!

AndyM

David Leave,
I emailed Crausby about his views on this issue and received a reply back asking for my address. I assume that as I live well outside his constituency I'll also not get the courtesy of a reply. What lightweights these people are!

Jess The Dog

These "senior Labour figures" briefing against General Dannatt are traitors - during a time of war, when soldiers are dying, there is no other term. Their smearing of General Dannatt will undermine morale. They are traitors, they should be identified in public and hung out to dry.

Jamal Akhbar

This Talabour regime (not a government) has been at war with Britain and its people since it was elected. They haven't finished with us yet.

Andy

"A Labour source accused the general of 'building up his own reputation at the expense of the Army' and added: 'The man’s a hypocrite." Takes one to know one, I was always told.