The defence test

Verity

One more issue on which Cameron does not have the courtesy to give the voter's a clue on how the Conservatives would advance in government. A vote for Cameron is a vote for a pig in a poke.

The Conservatives could ramp up the Defence budget by exing out all funds for "overseas development". We need the money at home, for our troops and military equipment. Case closed.

strapworld

Mr. Forsyth, I am with you on this. But Cameron is so devious on the question of the EU that I am seriously concerned about our sovereignty under him!

He has to talk to the electorate unequivacably on his intentions on the EU and the much vaunted referendum. On Defence of our nation. On what Britain will be like under his leadership.

The people need truth!

But, I will not hold my breath. The Blair tribute act will not come clean. Hence our serious concern.

Rex Burr

Interesting that David Cameron is expected to be a kind Prime Minister.

2trueblue

The MoD is too big and could be trimmed down freeing some money for the front line. That and a dozen or so quangos should help the budget out, because in trhth these people do not benefit us are are very expensive. Also if Cameron wants to truely look for extra cash there are lots of highly expensive management consultants that we do not need to consult with!
He is right that we have hardware sitting around that has the wrong software. Why on earth has that not been sorted out before now? It is truely unbelievable, and we are talking years here!
Is there anything that the current government have a handle on?

TGF UKIP

Both the editorial and yourself still pussyfooting round on this issue, I see James.

Contrary, though, to its function as a fanzine for The Speccie to spell out what a lamentable, shameful disgrace the stance of their beloved Hilton/Cameron Tories is on this issue.

bill

Yeesh why can't we just concentrate on defending British shores and asisting internationally on a scale that befits our population and GDP.

The British Empire collapsed and we are now a little island with some big problems.

Here's what to do:

Canel 90% of foreign missions, and send now spare helicopters to Afghanistan, or better yet, just bring our boys home so they won't need the bloody helicopters. Sell them on Ebay...

lawrence greek

"Any assessment of public spending that started from the question of what should government do rather than what does government do, would lead to more money for defence"

Not true. No one would argue that defence is a role for government, but it does not automatically follow that the defence budget must increase.

Moraymint

I'm a lifelong Conservative voter who spends many a day in despair at this lot (and in torpor when I contemplate the socialists holding office for much longer).

If the Tories don't treat defence and security as their Number One public spending priority in the light of current and looming world (and possibly national) instability, then I would recommend my fellow countrymen bone up on self-reliance and weapon handling at the earliest opportunity.

C Powell

Defending a nation's citizens from enemies at home and abroad is the key task of a government. Employing a load of diversity co-ordinators is not. Time for the Tories to show that they understand what the true role of the state should be.

John Moss

There are more civil servants at the MoD than soldiers in the Army.

A 25% cull of desk jockeys will release £1.25bn a year, plus we must be able to manage better than Labour!

Trevorsden

Canada it seems has cut its spending by 20% but has still been one of the most significant allies in Afghanistan.

We have a big defence budget plus a lot of money put in from the contingency reserve. That money needs to be spent wisely and to immediate effect. More money would be pointless if it is spent with the crass stupidity that the MoD currently displays.

Verity

Rex Burr - By whom?

C Powell, Cameron thinks that the true role of the state is to make him prime minister. This is all about him, not Britain. As the Blair government was all about Blair, not Britain.

Strapworld, the "much vaunted referendum" is anything but vaunted. They feint and dodge around the question whenever it's asked. All I can gather is, he has kinda implied in a sorta way that if the Irish and Czechs shove the Lisbon Treaty where the sun don't shine, Dave will generously have a referendum in Britain. Kind of. Well, probably.

If the Irish get bullied into voting Yes this time and the Czechs also don't come through, this notional referendum, that Cameron hasn't actually promised anyway, would definitely be dead in the water and we should all just accept it and help Camerons further his personal advancement in the Union of European Socialist Republics.

TGF UKIP

Ah! Now 11.33 pm and I see my post timed at 7.43 pm has appeared along with a clutch of others timed at between 6.47 (Verity and 8.23 (Bill.)

Yet approximately 25 minutes ago the only post appearing was C. Powell's timed at 10.19 pm.

What a truly bizarrely operated site this sometimes is.

Now I'll see if my post to James' piece on Tory caution has also appeared.

TGF UKIP

Yup! That's there too now. Presumably the carrier pigeons were facing a strong headwind today.

Hysteria

Moraymint - probably a business opportunity in your closing sentence!

Verity/Bill etc. - we have debated this before (sadly this blog does not allow us to reach a conclusion) but in essence it is overly simplistic to disconnect Defence spending from aid, intelligence , policing etc - all have a role in homeland security.

Sadly if the next lot screw it up we will be in Moraymint's back yard boning up on just Home security....

Verity

C Powell, you forget Gender Equality Assessors. How could> you!

All this army of destructive non-wealth-creating leeches on the public corpus.

All created by the communist Common Purpose set-up for no reason other than perpetuating, and aggrandising, control.

Odd that "1984" and "Brave New World" were written around the same time. Or perhaps not so odd.

Verity

C Powell: "Time for the Tories to show that they understand what the true role of the state should be."

But they don't.

strapworld

For those concerned abot Cameron, as I am on the EU especially, an article today shows just how wedded Cameron is to the EU.

Especially when he has Old Etonian chief of staff Ed Llewellyn, an ardent Europhile who used to work for pro-European Lord Patten, working for him!

Tell me now that we can trust Cameron to give the British people the referendum now!!!

May I recommend Peter Oborne's column in today's Daily Mail. Writing about Blair wanting to be the President of Europe, in which he says:-

"There remains, however, one very significant obstacle: David Cameron. The Tory leader could very easily stop the Blair Brussels bandwagon stone dead.If he sent out a clear message to European leaders that Blair is unacceptable to an incoming Conservative government, that would be an end to it.
Yet Cameron has done no such thing".

"Although he has allowed William Hague, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, to attack Blair, Cameron himself has not expressed his opposition, and remains highly unlikely to do so".

"Cameron's colleagues say that this is no more than mature and pragmatic politics. They argue that a Blair presidency of Europe would be good for Britain!"

"Moreover, David Cameron also has a personal interest in a Blair presidency."

"Tory strategists believe they stand a better chance in the next General Election if Labour didn't harness Blair's campaigning skills and, instead, he concentrated on his European ambitions".

"I am told the crucial intermediary between the Blair and Cameron camps is the Tory leader's Old Etonian chief of staff Ed Llewellyn, an ardent Europhile who used to work for pro-European Lord Patten, the former Tory Cabinet minister and ex-governor of Hong Kong".

"Llewellyn forged a powerful bond with Blair when he worked in a diplomatic role in Bosnia in the 1990s"

Is there any wonder that people, like myself are looking at Cameron and not liking what they see?

If Cameron wants the support of sceptics like me he has to be absolutely forthright in saying that he WILL hold a referendum on the EU even if the Lisbon Treaty is ratified.

If he does not, I will not support the Tories and will vote for another party that will offer me some hope that we will challenge this autocratic, undemocratic, cabal called the EU.

But it does show that I am right to call Cameron the Blair Tribute Act. He wants to fool the British people as Blair did.

Will they fall for the same trick again?

Jamie

Discussion on defence seems to be held only in the context of equipment shortfalls in Afghanistan. This is unfortunate.

It is a nasty world. We face a broad range of future risks, including resource competition amongst our energy suppliers in the Middle East ('tanker wars'), vulnerabilities in our information infrastructure ('cyber-attacks'), nuclear proliferation and failing states. In different ways each challenges our economic and territorial integrity.

Ensuring we have the right of blend of people, skills and equipment to meet these demands is a uniquely difficult task. It is also expensive.

TrevorsDen

Lord preserve us from the usual hysteria from Verity and TGF.

This issue Mr Powell is - does defending the nation need us to blow £15 billion minimum on 2 giant aircraft carriers (and their exotic jets) and billions more on scores of extra air superiority fighters and high tech, specialist, APCs? All part of a glamorous, for show, EU Army?

Or does it require us to provide a suitable variety of armoured vehicles, combat engineers and associated equipment, predator drones, helicopters, transport planes, light attack aircraft.

And more men carrying rifles.

We have a big defence budget. Its just being squandered. Unless people stop and think about that we will perpetuate our current predicament.

Verity

Just as the Min of Agriculture is run by a vegetarian, I am certain that Defence is run by a pacifist. To Labour, anything that upsets the natural order, and is therefore destabilising, is to be desired.

Strapworld quotes Peter Oborne: "Tory strategists believe they stand a better chance in the next General Election if Labour didn't harness Blair's campaigning skills ...". Well, maybe, but I think Blair's "campaigning skills" had already headed south at the last election, when the Tories actually prevailed in England. I think Blair's hissy,prissy voice had become a turn-off even then.

strapworld

Verity,

The Ministry of Derfence is run by a 'former'? communist!

Ed

If one wanted to keep General Dannatt onside, it may be worthwhile to consider him as a SecState for Agriculture - he's a farmer, after all, living on Pippas' fathers farm where LadyDs family have been for years.