A procurement strategy which puts troops in danger

Slim Jim

Your last sentence says it all really.

TrevorsDen

There are no votes or kudos in marginal or heartland constituencies for Labour in buying American.

In point of fact the way forward in quickly transforming our defences is to buy off the shelf or second hand from America. We will save zillions in research and development (which usually comes to nothing anyway) which can be better used.

Andy Leeds

The incompetence and negligence of this rotten Government is beyond belief.

lawrence greek

There is something seriously amiss in the MOD procurment department. What, I don't know.

TrevorsDen

PS - America is not Europe.

paracelsus

They're obviously saving every penny for that 'National Emergency' they'll fabricate some time next Spring.

No election here, too dangerous...blah, blah, blah.

The day this disgraceful bunch is ousted from office will truly be a day for national celebration. Street parties for all!

Rhoda Klapp

Defence procurement is wasteful and ineffective, that is beyond dispute. It is also corrupt, even if actual bribery and kickbacks are not present (and I don't know) we certainly have too many personal angendas and conflicting interests, not to mention the revolving door between MoD, the services and the industry.

BUT, you can't just pick an example like this and jump to easy conclusions as to who is at fault. You need an expert insider to know what's really going on, to compare the stories and try to divine some sort of truth.

One fact is certain. The whole procurement system is rotten, was rotten before the layest events, and will remain rotten until somebody gets a grip. I can't see either party providing that somebody any time soon.

Nicholas

Traitors. Labour always was and always will be the biggest enemy of this nation and its people.

Barry

The important bit is at the end of the article - protecting the purchase of the Future Lynx.

The Army wants a chopper not the RAF, so it's got to be something that fits within the rules that dictate what choppers the Army *are allowed* to operate. This includes the weight of the helicopter so it's got to be something smaller and lighter than a Blackhawk - which the Future Lynx is. Even though it cannot carry enough troops.

The RAF don't want the Blackhawk because that eats into their budget for operating fast jets which, while doing great service in Afghanistan, could be replaced in the close air support role by slower, cheaper aircraft fielded in much greater numbers. But the RAF don't want that either.

There are lots and lots of dividing lines between the services that are either arcane or just plain daft. They need addressing as it is now killing troops needlessly.

If James Arbuthnot thinks the Blackhawk is just the job, why didn't the Defence Select Committee recommend the rules that dictate what the Army can operate be changed in 2007 and why aren't they recommending the rules be changed now? Our Armed Forces are lions led by donkeys both in the MOD and Westminster.

TGF UKIP

OK, now let's see if the Tories can do anything with this gift.

Don't hold your breath folks, but imagine what Blair/Brown/Mandelson/Campbell would have made of something like this.

John Page

Loads of detail about helicopters on Richard North's eureferendum blog, with links to other well informed sites.

Rhoda Klapp

Peter H, shouldn't eureferendum or its sister site defence of the realm be on the blogroll here?

Denis Cooper

I suspect that TrevorsDen may have something with his "PS - America is not Europe".

It seems only yesterday that Heseltine was storming out of No 10 over helicopters - is this the latest episode in the same saga?

We need to completely re-write the EU treaties, not as per Lisbon, but deleting both the commitment to a never-ending process of "ever closer union" and all the references to defence, security and foreign policy.

Colin

As I've written here before, if played correctly by the Tories, this could see of Labour for a generation.

Roy Lewis

John Page is right, instead of listening to te MSM wiith their "nicking" from bloggers and their "listening" to the "Masters of Deceit". For heavens sake Read the Defence of the Realm blog from Dr Richard North, where all this and a lot more was written about months ago.

Edward Sutherland.

I suspect that if the UK was China half the MoD procurement dept would have been shot by now for negligence,incompetence and worse.Why haven't heads rolled (metaphorically speaking) for the debacle over the Chinook acquisition?

Athesius the Facilitator

It would take months possibly years to get a couple of squadrons of blackhawks into service on the front line. As somebody who has served on a Royal Navy commando squadron my pals and myself are aware of whats required to deploy. Training on the tarmac and in the hangar is just as important than training in the air.
WE KNOW THAT THE BIGGEST PROBLEM AS WELL AS A SHORTAGE OF HELO'S IS THE SPARES, THEY JUST WILL NOT FUND THEM. It's robbery and canibalisation of serviceable aircraft that keeps good "cabs" on the ground. These and lots of other problems should have been sorted out before this government committed our forces into Afghanistan.

mitch

Gordon will never wash the blood off his hands, both theirs and ours.

Jim

From Friday's Telegraph:

"An enquiry by the commons defence committee found that helicopter numbers WILL FALL from the current total of 550 to between 300 and 400 by 2020."

"The PLANNED reduction comes despite defence experts claiming that lives are being lost in Afghanistan because troops have to move on the ground, making them vulnerable to roadside bombs...."

And this from a government which has just allowed the spending of £2 billion on refurbishing the Ministry of Defence in London, has spent £70 billion on management consultants, is still committed to spending billions (despite spin to the contrary) on ID cards, is probably going to fritter £20 billion on the olympic games, and wastes untold billions on pointless Quango's.......

This is far and away the most inept, deceiptful, despicable and dishonourable government this country has ever had to endure, and no punishment would be to great for them, no fate too horrific.

My greatest surprise and regret is that if you couple this with events like the recent announcement of the "creation" of "thousands" of green jobs through "millions in green investment" which came on the same day as the announcement that Britain's only wind turbine manufacturer was going into receivership with the loss of 600 jobs because the government had refused to provide financial help, if this were a Conservative government doing these things with a Labour opposition the opposition would have rightly torn them limb from limb and the media would be hounding them relentless until they resigned in shame.

Yet today both events have passed with hardly a mention, the death of the British wind turbine company has already completely disapeared from the media.

Deeply saddening.

Will Yoxall

Blackhawks are the wrong choice for the UK, we couldn't operate them for three or four years at a minimum, the Bell 412 Griffin is the only option which could be pursued relatively quickly.

Also the Blackhawk (and its sisters like the Seahawk etc) have a pretty poor safety record.

However more money for Defence as a whole (not just the Army) is desperately needed. The next war may for instance be at sea and it takes a hell of a lot longer to build up a Navy than it does an Army.

kein

we are all doomed................

Lee Hannaford

Hi Will
Sikorsky have muddied the waters and the Conservative Party and those that are uneducated have jumped on it. Yes the Blackhawk could provide a short term stop gap, we could retire the Puma and Lynx Mk7/9 cabs and send the crews to the US to retrain. The Blackhawk is operated by US forces in AFghanistan so logistics and engineering would be simple as we could just jump on the back of their chain. Those crews could be retrained in 6 months and in theatre.

Could we do that with the Bell 412? Or could that be a longer term solution?
What would happen to those Blackhawks? Well we could give them to the Afghan Air Force for example.

The Bell 412 would fall under the weight limit that precludes it from being an RAF cab and not a AAC cab so the AAC should be happy.

The Bell 412 is a longer term solution unless we can ask the US Marines to free up some of their Huey's. It is cheap, it can be organic (Operated and owned by the service that uses it - Army and Royal Marines) and we have a training system in place already at RAF Shawbury.

However you last comment, more money I think misses the point. We can spend the money that the MoD is given better. We don't and I think that is the biggest crime of all.
Remember we have a helicopter fleet that is 536 strong. How many can we deploy to Afghanistan? Roughly 18 or 3.35% or the total fleet. And remember we have been in theatre for 8 years!

After 8 years we can only struggle to deploy 3.35%. 60 and 84% Prime Minister. Look at my number, 3.35%, and it suddenly brings your number in to context!!

Ean Craigie

The frustration is that Brun will never admit that he might, just might have got it wrong. Can any of the many knowledgable readers help me out, can a private citizen legally challenge him either in or, hopefully, out of office.