Outside the inner circle

rmh

These Senior Tories - are these the same ones who lost 3 elections in a row? Are these who most would say are out of touch?

As these the same landed gentry who are not quite where Cameron needs to position the party?

Ken Davies

Are there really "senior Tories" making these complaints or is this largely Labour's latest desperate spinning against Cameron?

James J

“Sofa government” might just be another consequence of having a political class with virtually no experience outside politics and no senior management experience before entering politics. Maybe it is also why so many government projects go wrong.

David

Sorry, but it smacks of a group of people who have found that they just aren't all that good to be at the heart of things. There are lots of people like that in every organisation; the difference with MPs is they can complain anonymously to the press to make trouble.

Ray

It's interesting how many of the 'inner circle' have also made dodgy Commons expense claims - and yet somehow lived to fight another day.

R King

Those "Senior Tories" wouldn't be Tebbit & Co would they?
As rmh said they lost three elections.

Shut the f**k up you silly old men!

TrevorsDen

Yawn.

The great magnificent Mrs Thatcher never had a clique did she?

Ohh err....

Now as I recall there have been numerous working parties set up, run by people like IDS.

I also recall the need for some people to be in the news and for some people to have a need to write something, however daft. Just point me to any political leader who behaves any differently. Oh I forgot - Churchill - he won WW2 because he went round asking every Tory backbencher for their opinions.

Jeremy

...'Cameron has the potential to be a really significant prime minister,' says one frontbencher, 'but he risks destroying himself because he won’t widen his circle.'

I would agree with the first part of that statement - but "potential" is what it currently remains. In contrast to the second part of the statement, I think that one of Cameron's great virtues as party leader is his ability to reach out to, and communicate with, voters beyond his circle of party supporters. Not all of his predecessors as Tory leader have had this ability. However, he should obviously note the recent grumblings and rumblings from within his own party. Perhaps Dave should try out some of his inclusive listening and communication skills upon his own Parliamentary Party. It would be dangerous for him not to "include" them.

CS

How can their views be "hard hitting" when they're anonymous?

Chuck Unsworth

About time some of these 'anonymous sources' were named - if indeed they actually exist.

David Ossitt

R King

"Those "Senior Tories" wouldn't be Tebbit & Co would they?
As rmh said they lost three elections.

Shut the f**k up you silly old men!"

I will bet you are a real joy to be around; the centre of attention, fascinating everyone with your erudition, wit, and natural good manners.

Sheila

If you want anything done, ever. You have people around you that you feel you can rely and trust on 110 per cent.

The Conservative backbenches are overflowing with rubbish.

Cameron is not Superman but he'd do well to keep much of that stink out of the way. They have been useless for a decade.

Peter Wilson

Hmm would these 'senior Tories' be Lord Mandelson?

Vulture

Cameron has been the beneficiary of the fantastic unpopularity of the Liebour Govt. The fact is that the public have not fallen in love with him - Tory poll leads should be stratospheric, not just 10% or so. But barring accidents, he is going to be the next PM lightweight puffball though he is. His Premiership, it is already safe to say, will be disastrous given his lack of experience, ideas, policies or willingness to make 'tough choices' ( as opposed to talk abt them). Nope, Dave is going to be a disaster.

TGF UKIP

Hello, hello, hello! The Tory trolls are out in force this morning. Must be our Tamzin co-ordinating, otherwise it might look a little less obvious.

Too late, though, chaps, when even the fanzine hacks have repeatedly criticized Dave for rule by clique, you can hardly be surprised when Tory backbenchers and non-clique Shadows start complaining to other jounos about a party within a party.

Peter Buss

Peter -I see David Davis yet again gets a mention.Please forgive me but I cannot feel sorry for a man who in a fit of self indulgence and self aggrandisement threw away an important job for frankly nothing. Cameron needs team players - not prima donnas.

chris

We have to appreciate that the party is full of reactionaries who do not understand much of what Cameron has achieved. They are conspiracy ridden and back-stabbers. Loyalty does not raise its head. And the same goes for the constituencies run by the old guard. Most of them don't like Cameron.

As an example, look at the disgraceful article in yesterday's Telegraph by a so called Grandee, Lord Salisbury. Having reeled off his views 'speaking in the garden of his Chelsea home', he goes on to announce that he has decided that he wants 'a half-elected, half-appointed House of Lords, defined by "independence and authority". He then confirms that he is buggering off. The sooner the better.

Moraymint

Just reinforces my view that whilst I shall be ecstatic to assist in the ejection of the Labour Party from Government - 12 years of unmitigated car crash politics - I am filled with trepidation at the Tory incompetence that is likely to follow swiftly thereafter.

Where does one look for a glimmer of hope these days?

paracelsus

This analysis is based on the assumption that this type of reporting is, in effect, factual.

Where are the direct quotes? Where is the real substance? It is all hearsay and supposition. All successful leaders have a group of trusted personnel. How is this any different?

People will always bitch and moan about something. Can we have some real reporting for once.

CS

Why should Tory poll leads be stratospheric, Vulture? If they promote policies that people will vote for, those are already broadly the policies of Labour so there's no great difference to inspire voters. And if they go for clear blue water by adopting the dog whistle policies, they won't get high polls because relatively few people want those policies.

I think it's more than likely that, after what became of the brave new dawn of 1997, the electorate is all inspired out. They've had 18 years of being run with vague competence by a bunch of bigoted bastards led sucessively by a heartless cow and a clown, followed by 12 years of being run with vague incompetence by a bunch of smug bastards led successively by a ham actor and an incompetent. Why should the voters "believe" in anyone ever again?

People voted for painful medicine in 1979 and got an 18 year dosage. Now they're being asked to vote for years of austerity again to fix the chaos of the last 12 years. The electorate may be prepared to vote for the medicine but they're hardly likely to do so with wild enthusiasm.

JohnAnt

I've no objection to Dave communing with a few selected souls. But are the selected souls (Osborne et al) really all that select?

Kevyn Bodman

David Davis 'threw away an important job' for something more important; he wasn't convinced that Cameron et al were robust enough in their opposition to 42 detention without charge so he resigned, risked his seat and brought the issue to the front of the news agenda and of political discussion.
He did it in the knowledge that his action would damage his political 'career' but he did it anyway because he is one of those who puts principle before the trappings of office.
The House of Commons, the Conservative Party and the country would be much, much stronger if there were 50 more like David Davis.

Tiberius

These complaining Tory backbenchers are no different to tea boys or semi-retired odd-job men complaining they can't attend main board meetings. If journos short of something to write about during the silly season can't honestly see that, then they would be better taking some extended leave.

Susan Hill

Was it not ever thus ? Did NuLab not do the same only more so ? The problem comes if they continue to stay a secret inner circle if/when they are in government.

Publius

When these "senior Tories" have the courage to identify themselves, I might listen. Until then I'm not interested.

As for this nonsense about cliques, well what next? Will we hear complaints from "senior Tories" that Cameron is not "inclusive" enough?

Andy Carpark

Nothing new here. Cameron has adopted the political techniques, mostly imported from the US, that Labour wielded so effectively to gain power. Gaining power is his immediate objective and perhaps his only one: time will tell. But until he gains it, it would be incompatible with his chosen techniques, not to say pretty naïve, to come out as a radical "ideas man" or a cuddly, collegial party manager.

For the same reason, it would be premature to judge whether he has anything else in his kitbag beyond focus groups, psephological software, triangulation and sofa government. Since most of us will be voting on the Barbary ape principle (that a troop of Barbary apes would be preferable to the incumbent shower), it scarcely matters *yet* whether Cameron has any talent as a problem-solver. That is a discussion for next year.

But if one has to do a little ball-gazing, I long ago came to the same conclusion as Squire Vulture and other worthies: that he is destitute of talent of any description. Mastery of political technique is not a talent. It's a different kettle of fish altogether and a decidedly on-the-nose one at that.

Tony E

CS, the poll leads are no stratospheric because the polling is more advanced than it was in 1997, and most pollsters use a more balanced method to conduct studies.

The only people who are generally shouting about the diference between now and late 96 are the Labour party, in that they are using their innacurate but very high poll results at that time to suggest something that is not the case now.

As to Cameron's inclusiveness, I think most of the noise is probably media/labour generated. The Conservative benches want to win, they will put aside differences to see that happen. If there is a problem, it will only really erupt once Cameron is, (or fails to become) PM

Rhoda Klapp

Cameron is supposed to be the leader of the party. There is more to leadership than running a cabal of your mates, some of whom may not even be party members, and emerging to tell the party what to do, without explanation or justification. But then some party leaders are quite happy to undermine parliament and the authority of MPs, and indeed democracy itself, such as it is, to maintain their power.

Maybe there ought to be a limit of half a dozen whipped votes a session, so parties were obliged to keep their sheep under control by consensus rather than dictatorship.

Crystal Bullet

There is a bright side to Cameron’s clique. As a consequence of his environmental policies the UK’s economic malaise will be exacerbated. The lower middle-classes will be embittered by a few years of Cameron environmentalism. This will revive both the pride in and mythological strength returned to Britain by Thatcherism.

If Cameron cliquishly wins power, a permanent return of the greens to be seen as a foreign and rather Germanic force will occur. Only if Cameron wins, governs badly and then subsequently loses after one term in office will there be significant enough pressure to re-unite UKIP (and by implication some of the BNP) into a new Thatcher-proof Tory party in opposition. Such unification may happen if Cameron does not win but would not revive pride nor slay the greens.

Chingford Man

"Those "Senior Tories" wouldn't be Tebbit & Co would they?
As rmh said they lost three elections.

Shut the f**k up you silly old men!"

How many elections did the Tories lose in Lord Tebbit's day? And there's me thinking he was instrumental in the party winning 3-in-a-row.

What have the Notting Hill Set ever done? Achieved a 10pc lead over a government so far gone that it's starting to smell?

Andy Carpark

Just come across the following from Geoffrey Wheatcroft.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jul/27/cameron-trust-leader-voters

'We've since learned that [Andy Coulson] had been recommended to Cameron by the accident-prone George Osborne, and he was cheered by the Tory press, or at any rate by Matthew d'Ancona in the Sunday Telegraph. D'Ancona said at the time what a splendid choice Coulson was. He now writes about this "brilliantly successful journalist" – perhaps he has in mind the "Andy Coulson's Bizarre" showbiz column that used to adorn the Sun – and he adds that Coulson did after all resign over the bugging scandal: "As they say in Essex: the boy done his bird." '

That clinches it. If the Editor of the Spectator hails the appointment as a stroke of genius (or whatever) that is good enough for a prole like me. The Cameron-Osborne duopoly will be a disaster. It will look Blair and Brown look like Rogers and Astaire. No, make that Crick and Watson.

Verity

Vulture has written what I would have written. TGF UKIP also.

Peter Buss - Regarding David Davis, what you tritely define as "frankly nothing" is "principle". Look it up in the dictionary.

Tiberius, it must be a real pleasure to know that you are a more acute political observer than are well-connected, seasoned lobby correspondents in Westminster. I'm surprised you're not prime minister yourself, you're so astute.

On a general note, those who whine on that David Cameron is going to win the election after the Tories being thrashed for three elections in a row, and he's therefore a particularly clever saviour, please note: The Tories didn't get thrashed in the last election. Tony Blair squeaked in, mainly on the Celtic vote, with a titchy majority.

In the previous two elections, the country was fed up with John Major and it was inconceivable that Labour wouldn't win. They did so with a charismatic, self-elevating phony who somehow - certainly not through competence - managed to hold their eye through the next election with his new style governance by sound bite and sofa interviews on the telly. By the third election, the thrill was gone and Michael Howard just about sewed up England.

Dave is level pegging with Blair in self-regard, not to say adoration, but he doesn't have the barrow boy's quickness with words. He's a half-filled balloon, barely afloat. As someone said above, "as light as thistledown". Charisma and principle free. He hasn't sacked anyone - except a couple of peripheral people no one had ever heard of - for expenses cheating. That says a lot, right there. The rules don't apply to David Cameron and his pals.

I am immensely depressed by the thought that he might slither in, because it will be the end of Britain. Now is the time we need a staunch Conservative with real principles to fight off the ever-encroaching EUSSR and deal for once and for all with Islamic aggression.

drakes drum

Trevors Den has been commenting for a long time through his rose tinted spectacles.

Perhaps he can now enlighten us all who was a member of Churchill and Thatcher's 'clique'?

She had a number of confidants but she did not have this cosy arrangement that Cameron has.

Cameron is copying Blair almost down to the final full stop.

Trevors Den had better wake himself up because I fear that Cameron will prove, very quickly, to be a damp squid. He has no depth, has both feet firmly on either side of the fence, is a slave to public opinion- and leaders should LEAD public opinion.

Has no idea how the majority of people live.

Surrounded by former Eton buddies and Bullington Club Pals and Hague is supposed to be the one to keep him in touch with the membership!! (Memo: Must find the baseball cap).

David Davis was and is more attuned to the real Tories and the Conservative Party may well be elected at the general election and this Country may well get Prime Minister Cameron.

But be prepared to be let down badly. And that worries me very seriously as I can foresee nothing but trouble ahead, internally.

Publius calls this 'nonsense' He/She is obviously part of the problem.

The Tory Party is now filled with ostriches- heads well and truly in the sand. Unable and unwilling to look around them and think.

Well the shock will come soon enough.

Cameron will let us all down badly. 'jolly boating weather'

David M

Whatever you think of Blair's morals or methods, he was an election winning machine. Cameron isn't stupid, and senior Tories moaning won't change his reliance on Blair's management system (i.e. sofa opposition/government)

Mirtha Tidville

perhaps `Dave` regards them as Fruitcakes, Loonies and Closet Racists...........

TGF UKIP

Well, who's this galloping over the hill to the defence of his young hero?

Why it's none other than old Tiberius himself. How vastly unsurprising!

As for the views expressed on David Davis, my own belief is that he did the very sensible thing by baleing out.

Judging that the shooting star Project Cameron was destined at some point in the none too distant future to disappear over the horizon in a shower of sparks and shit, DD has positioned himself perfectly to pick up the pieces when the Tory Party comes back to its senses.

JONNY

'But barring accidents, he is going to be the next PM lightweight puffball though he is'

I suspect Mr Vulture you may be in for a rude awakening.
In my view, Cameron will be the hardest toughest PM we've seen for many many years.
But the next year or two should show if you're a rubbish judge of character

Nick W.

As a leader he needs to provide guidance to his team along the lines of;
"Has anyone got ideas on how we might solve "this" specific problem?"

One problem at a time, organised, focused effort and discussion with contributions welcome from everybody including prospective candidates.

Time has to be made for it, and the channels and structures of the party need to be adapted to allow the rapid flow of information between individuals and the leadership, in both directions.

Put an ex officer in charge of party organisation,with instructions to establish a flat pyramidal hierarchy.

A forum and a welcome for disorganised flashes of genius is also required.

Verity

Peter Buss writes, re David Davis: "Please forgive me but I cannot feel sorry for a man who in a fit of self indulgence and self aggrandisement threw away an important job for frankly nothing."

Well, Pete, I for one forgive you! No probs! Did Mr Davis tell you personally why he "threw away an important job"? You say "for frankly nothing". You know that, do you?

Oscar

An article by Andrew Rawnsley and an unattributed letter (written in the style of one of Stalin's memos) adds up to 'the complaint that won't go away?' All I can detect is some frantic Labour spin doctoring. Can we have something genuine to talk about please?

Kirsty

Cameron is aware of the common complaint, but he'd rather have a clique of people whom he considers capable, than a big tent of mediocre just for the sake of appearing inclusive. I don't know how good those strategists and advisers are, but sometimes when you read something from those "senior tories", you sort of understand why Cameron relies on outsiders. Those "senior tories" need to come up with ideas that are workable, policies that throughly thought out, instead of opinions that appeal to certain quarter of the party. If they're not capable of that, why should Cameron include them?

Oscar

BTW Vulture - the Tory lead has been consistently around 15% since April. This compares extremely well with Labour's 1997 election result. You should try reading PoliticalBetting.

David Ossitt

Sheila.

'The Conservative backbenches are overflowing with rubbish'

Come on girl stop mincing your words; get it off your chest, YOU DO NOT LIKE real Tories do you?

Could it be that you are flying a very different flag?

Kirsty

"Mastery of political technique is not a talent"

Sorry, it is. You can say the same about Tony Blair, he won 3 elections.

David

Margaret Thatcher was not "heartless". Determined, yes.

R King

David Ossitt
July 28th, 2009 10:44am
"I will bet you are a real joy to be around; the centre of attention, fascinating everyone with your erudition, wit, and natural good manners."

Such acerbic wit and so original its amazing what they teach in comprehensive schools these days!
By the way does your mummy know that you are playing with daddies computer while she is at bingo?

Why not stick to the thread?

Verity

David Ossitt, Sheila is one of the newer trolls around here. They are so thick and easily detectable that it's not even any fun baiting them.

Drake's Drum - I too despair at the thought of a Cameron win because he will take us toute de suite deeper into the EU and continue the socialist destruction of our national identity and independence. That's why I keep praying for a Labour victory ... because they would be kicked out in 18 months max and we would, in the meantime, have a new, effective genuine Tory leader. I'm worried to death about what is going to happen to Britain if Cameron gets in and has five years in which to finish us off as a nation.

Tiberius

Verity: would those be the same well-connected, seasoned lobby correspondents who almost to a man swooned when Obama was elected?

Tiberius

TGF: talking of "well who", I can't recall you getting out of bed during the week before midday to post on here. Did you have some kind of alert to pick up this thread?

Nicholas

Nick W. What a load of managerial-speak bullshit. Sounds like Mr Rupert Pongo-Sandhurst meets Mr Rupert Corporate-Blue chip. "Right, chaps, how do we get this empty plastic barrel across the stream with just this 15 foot length of plastic clothes line, two A-frames, a false moustache and a cricket bat?" Is that what passes for "leadership" in modern Britain?

And a "flat pyramid" - that I'd like to see. (Yeah, yeah, I know - no need to explain).

Verity

Kirsty is correct. The socialists got someone in who was perceived to be one of the middle class (which is a very, very broad class, by the way that includes anyone who is employed in the private, wealth-creating sector, i.e. not on the taxpayer tit) ...

Blair won two elections in a large sense, and slipped in under the net on the third, before going on to a series of non-jobs with flashy titles and giving David-Nivenesque-Wing-Commander after-dinner talks to the Americans. All the while flying under the radar with all these weird remits, which no one has ever figured out, in the ME. I mean, WTangoFoxtrot is the man actually doing?

And who's paying the freight?

TomTom

The great magnificent Mrs Thatcher never had a clique did she?

Well her first Cabinet comprised Heathites opposed to her...maybe Cameron can get his opponents into Cabinet ?

Augustus

"Dave is going to be a disaster"
He certainly will if he's still got his L plates on come election day.

Ken Davies

I wish to dissociate myself from the comments made above by someone purporting to be Ken Davies.

David Ossitt

R King.

"Those "Senior Tories" wouldn't be Tebbit & Co would they?
As rmh said they lost three elections.

Shut the f**k up you silly old men!"

This; your first post, indicates that you have a profound contempt for the Tory party elders, that you have a foul mouth and little if any respect for elderly men.

Your second post.

"Such acerbic wit and so original its amazing what they teach in comprehensive schools these days!
By the way does your mummy know that you are playing with daddies computer while she is at bingo?"

This tells me that you are a bigot, a fool and a sarcastic supercilious snob.

You wrongly assume; that I am a child, that I am making the best of my poor comprehensive education and that my family is working class. (hence the bingo)

I think; that a word that David Cameron used today, and later apologised for having done so, would best describe you.

The word; was not twit!