Dumbing down

Stephen

A slick performance but what about the logic? Gove lists three questions from science exams and then asks, rhetorically, 'Are these questions preparing our children for a life in science?' A question to ask Gove is 'Should every question in an exam be preparing a child for a life in that subject?' What of the children who will not be scientists? Is there room for a question (and we might only be talking about one question - presumably Gove has picked a particularly simple question to illustrate his point) designed to examine the competence (as well as knowledge) of a child who is not destined to become a scientist. In fact, what would be the point of an exam in science,especially at Key Stage 2 and GCSE, that was pitched at such a level that only those who are destined to make a success of a degree in science can pass? The point is that there will be some ludicrously simple questions, aswell as some extremely taxing questions, in any exam that is designed to be used to examine the vast majority of the population whose ability is likely to reflect a normal distribution curve. And isolating one example of a poor question does not necessarily render the whole exam or examination culture faulty.

Pete Hoskin

Stephen: I see your point, and Gove is clearly being selective. But...

I did my GCSE science exams in 2000, and never came across anything as remotely easy as that microscope-telescope question (and the "dumbed down" argument certainly existed at the time).

To my mind, that sort of question just shouldn't belong in a paper for 16 year-olds. GCSEs certainly shouldn't be like the early rounds of 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire' - where there are a few "no-brainer" questions to get respondents warmed up.

se1man

Perhaps Gove should tidy up his office a bit before we trust him to tidy up our education and exam systems.

Bardirect

Gove's approach is perhaps a little too utilitarian, but change his question into "Is this standard of education preparing our children to live in the modern world and make educated choices about their lives?" and the answer is still going to be a resounding "No"!

Edward. E, Aldrin Jr.

I can't see anything wrong with these modern science exam questions. I think they're great.

You guys should quit carping and trust your Govenment.

Draughtsman

I wonder how the GCE, not GCSE, Physics, Mathematics, and Chemistry O levels I took in 1964 would compare now? No multiple choice answers to questions that I recall in those days. If you didn't understand the subject enough at exam time you failed. End of story. Perhaps things are fairer now for the youngsters.

Jim B

Just because he hasn't figured out how to play woolly hats in his CD player, look at stars through a microscope and walk to work with Queen's Greatest hit glued to his head, why should he try and spoil it for the rest of us?

Stephen

Pete: Thanks for the reply. I take your point too, and I wouldn't seek to defend every question. But neither would I like to see a limited number of questions that could/should be altered used as a basis for redesigning an exam policy.

On the issue of the 'warm-up no brainer' questions: Why not have a couple of questions that ease the anxious examinee into the exam (though that doesn't necessarily mean that a question as easy as microscope/telescope is a suitable candidate for this role)? Interviews often begin gently so that a candidate is relaxed and able to give their best. We're testing young people at Key Stage 2/3 and for GCSE's here not selecting for an Oxbridge chair.

Hereford

Hey Ed: you certainly failed GCSE English didn't you?

;o)

Fearless Frank

The 'telescope/microscope' question isn't really science, anyway - it's an English vocabulary question (and a pretty dumb one at that).

Peter

There are a lot of poorly educated clever people out there and also a lot of well educated stupid people.Just as there always has been and will always be.In both groups there is a great lack of commomsence.
Just read the comments on any topic in any paper or in any group conversation/discussion.
The tech. knowledge and lifestyle changes made over recent generations demand that any exham paper should be more robust than past paper.
Multiple choice question are for "Millionaire" and the like and not for the education system.

Fragmeister

As a science teacher I often have to answer the "what's the point of science" question. Few children want to be scientists. The point of the exam should be to test student's abilities to make critical thinking and logical decisions based on evidence. I don't think most of the science in schools does this.

Science Guy

These were some of the questions highlighted by QCA earlier this year when they reviewed the science exams earlier this year as being too easy. That said, since the science gcses were reviewed a couple of years ago they have become the norm rather than the exception.

However, there are other, more serious problems with the curricula. The core science GCSE is all of the science for citizenship without any real knowledge required. Even triple science is not the answer - I have pupils that are bored silly as it is too easy for them. The worst is the abuse of the BTEC course; in theory a good practical based course but in practice, due to it being 100% coursework, a course easily manipulated by schools looking to boost their position in the league tables. I am aware of one school which completes this 2 GCSE equivalent course in 18 hours of teaching time rather than the 180 hours it is supposed to take!

EC

Pete,

The dumbing down began in 1965 under Harold Wilson and Barbara Castle et al. The GCE 'O' & 'A' Levels were aimed at more academically inclined pupils. In 1965, at the same time the Grammar schools were being abolished and merged with Secondary Modern(sic) Schools to create Comprehensives the Old Labour government introduced the Certificate of Secondary Education(CSE) in addition to 'O' Levels so that the less academically inclined could walk away from school with a piece of paper.

The rot really set in in 1988 (under Schhh,you know who) when the GCE 'O' Level was merged with the CSE to create the ONE SIZE FITS ALL exam the GCSE!
Standards were bound to drop!

There are different 'A' and 'B' paper sets within the Maths and Science GCSE exams and, hopefully, Michael Gove must surely have been quoting from the 'B' paper? - He didn't say.

Michael Gove is right. Maybe he'll re-invent the GCE 'O' Level and the CSE!

David Lindsay

If Michael Gove really wants to do something about exams, then he should promise to bring back O-levels instead of GCSEs.

But that would entail denouncing the Prime Minister who made the change, the Education Secretary who closed so many grammar schools that there were not enough left at the end from the record ever to be equalled.

Can you name her?

I think you can.

Kevyn Bodman

I particularly like Mr.Aldrin Jr's closing sentence.

Like Sir Robin Butler with the modern technology telephone in the Cabinet Office I do hope he is taking the piss.
But, like Tony Blair, would our leaders know this?

Kevyn Bodman

I particularly like Mr.Aldrin Jr's closing sentence.

Like Sir Robin Butler with the modern technology telephone in the Cabinet Office I do hope he is taking the piss.
But, like Tony Blair, would our leaders know this?

john miller

Err, Stephen, it's science mate. Not catering. Science. Agreed, not every child wants to study science, but would you really want to be operated on by a brain surgeon who only knew how to make a judgement call on battered sausages?

Obviously not, but if you agree that a brain surgeon needs a bit more education in real science, why waste their formative years with rubbish? Come to that, why waste children's time with any rubbish? Is it interesting to learn about battered sausages? Is that inspiring?

I studied science with a sense of wonder at the mystery of it all. I doubt that battered sausages would have had the same effect.

Finally, anyone who studies real science wouldn't be duped by idiotic government advisers propounding theories of tertiary smoking and secondary drinking as they impose their Stalinist regimes upon us all.

Trumpeter Lanfried

How can anyone possibly defend these bloody silly questions? Their sole purpose is to increase the pass rate and massage the stats.

Science Guy

In response to John Miller the questions are likely to have been tsken from Science A as Science A papers are multiple choice whilst Science B papers are short answer questions. That said, it is probably harder to get an A or A* grade on Science A than B.

Mrs R

The questions Michael Gove quoted are more suitable for Primary School children. They are also examples of what used to be "general knowledge" rather than being subject-specific.

If this is all our 16 year olds are expected to know, and is an example of the assessment of their reasoning, analytical skill and knowledge of scientific fact, then I despair for the future of UK-based scientific research.

It's no wonder our Universities are questioning whether our school leavers are suitably prepared for the rigour of a degree course - which they would commence a mere two years after taking their GCSE exams!

TGF UKIP

Wot clip?

Minnie Ovens

Edward. E, Aldrin Jr.
American? Brought up in the US comprehensive system?
Or, such a dumb statement that it must be to take the P***.

Could someone take the Exam papers for the 11+, O level and A level (Oxford and Cambridge) of 1959 and compare them to anything in 2009 that equates to them.
A and A are not too difficult but is there something similar to the 11+ (or Common Entrance)?
I just have the feeling that as we attempt to reinvent the wheel we might find out, in time, that the wheel was pretty good.