Europe Referendum back on the cards
James Forsyth 7:30pm
Ian Davidson, the Labour MP who has been leading the charge for a referendum, has managed to get down an amendment on whether or not Britain should remain in the European Union; the Lib Dem’s failure to get the Deputy Speaker to accept their amendment on this yesterday led to them storming out of the Commons. Davidson has succeeded where Nick Clegg failed by proposing a two question referendum which would ask:
The amendment will appear on the Order Paper tomorrow and will come to a vote next Wednesday. (Update: The Lib Dems have been on the phone to point out that it is not certain that their will be a vote on Wednesday and therefore Davidson hasn't achieved more than Clegg. But it still appears that the Davidson amendment has a good chance of coming to a vote)
“Should the United Kingdom retain its membership of the European Union?”“If it remains a member of the European Union, should the United Kingdom approve the Lisbon Treaty?”
This amendment has a real chance of passing if the Lib Dems and the Conservatives support it considering how many Labour rebels there are. Nick Clegg wrote earlier this week that it is time for the “debate politicians have been too cowardly to hold for 30 years - time for a referendum on the big question…This generation deserves its chance to say where we stand on Europe - in or out.” Surely a secondary question on Lisbon is a small price to pay for such a vote?
Yet, if Clegg assents to this amendment he would expose just how deeply his party is split on the Lisbon treaty and he might face a rebellion from the Europhile party grandees in the Lords who pushed Ming Campbell into going back on the Lib Dem’s manifesto commitment to a referendum.
Tory support for a two-question referendum can not be taken for granted. Some close to the leadership worry that supporting an in or out referendum could both re-open old Tory wounds on Europe—7 Tory MPs are supporters of The Better Off Out campaign and a referendum would likely see several more come out of the closet, there is also the Maggie factor to consider—and allow Labour to portray them as extremists bent on withdrawal. But conspiring to deny the public a vote on the Lisbon treaty would spur the mother of all grassroots revolts and be the wrong thing to do.
David Cameron and William Hague should take this opportunity to set out their position on Europe, for membership but against Lisbon. This is a sensible, reasoned view that polls suggest most of the public share. The Tories must stop being scared of their own shadows on Europe. If they need their courage boosting, they should think of what a blow it would be to Gordon Brown’s authority for him to lose a referendum on Lisbon.
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Don Quixote
February 27th, 2008 8:34pm Report this commentThat motion seems to split the difference between the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives perfectly. You can't say fairer than that but it sounds from your piece like they will both find convenient reasons to wiggle out of it. That's modern politics for you.
Max Kaye
February 27th, 2008 9:20pm Report this commentSo there is a 'righteous man in Sodom', after all. Thank you Ian Davidson.
It'll be interesting to see whether Clegg tries to wriggle out of this one.
I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that the Tories don't blow this opportunity and keep a firm hand on the tiller.
Dave B
February 27th, 2008 9:38pm Report this commentExcellent news. If Mr Clegg tries to wriggle out of this one, he'll lose what little credibility he has left.
Teesbridge
February 27th, 2008 10:02pm Report this comment"...position on Europe, for membership but against Lisbon." Yep. I'm a buyer of that. I voted Yes in 1975 (just after my 19th birthday) and I would still vote Yes to membership. Lisbon is just plain wrong, and needs a No vote. And for the love of God, can we please, please stop letting That Bloody Woman (or those who purport to know her mind) set the terms for debate. She is a pernicious ghost in the machine.
Herbert Thornton
February 27th, 2008 10:36pm Report this commentI hope I'm wrong, but I think that most MPs - whether Tory, Labour or Lib/Dem - are mortally afraid of a referendum on either question.
I look forward to next Wednesday in much the same spirit as I contemplate my wife's intention to buy a ticket on the next lottery.
Dave B
February 27th, 2008 11:15pm Report this comment@Herbert Thornton
"I look forward to next Wednesday in much the same spirit as I contemplate my wife's intention to buy a ticket on the next lottery."
Nicely put :-)
I'm borderline euphoric myself, which is silly, but there you go.
Nick Kaplan
February 27th, 2008 11:20pm Report this commentWhat fantastic news! It will be interesting to watch the Lib Dems squirm over this one, it is so very obvious that this was a con to distract from the real issue. The Lib Dems love the EU and want the Lisbon treaty to pass, they believed that had a referendum on “In or Out” been allowed nobody could have sensibly voted for “out” and thus through restricting our options they could have then claimed support for full steam ahead with EU integration. Teesbridge, I hope you don’t mean Maggie… one should have more respect for the lady who rescued our country from the socialists and has been trying to rescue us from these ludicrous EU bureaucrats since the 1980’s!
Dave B
February 28th, 2008 12:52am Report this commentI check my email, and right on cue, I get an email from Intelligence Squared to tell me of their March 5th debate 'Britain should have a referendum on the EU treaty'.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/intelligence/492291/special-emergency-debate-britain-should-have-a-referendum-on-the-eu-treaty.thtml
I vote in favour of the motion. :-)
Kevyn Bodman
February 28th, 2008 3:31am Report this commentA chance to set out a 'sensible, reasoned view' indeed. And there are reasonable positions to be had on either side. But instead I predict we'll get posturing, trimming and mendacity.And whipping. This will further increase the divide between the political class and the people, and that can never be a good thing. My opinion of Clegg is not favourable, neither is my opinion of Brown or Cameron, but this should be about much more than which politician is more embarrassed than the others. I would like the UK to withdraw from the EU because the essential element of civil government is that the people can remove, by peaceful means, those who pass laws and institute policies that the people are subject to. That is not a feature of the EU. The EU is too big and has too many politicians and officials, many of whom want to *do* things. These government-type activities benefit the government and their caree-oriented officials; they don't benefit me. In more specific policy areas I want to reject ID cards, (the EU loves them) and I want the UK to have control over its borders and immigration policies. And I've got no interest in being a big player on the world stage. There is little risk of damage to our trade in the longer term; trade benefits both sides in the exchange, so why should remaining EU members hurt themselves. What are the arguments for staying in the EU?
Mike Stallard
February 28th, 2008 7:40am Report this commentI think we ought to have a position vis a vis the EU like Norway or Switzerland.
So how do I vote, please?
And let's have a little less despair, shall we? It's like kicking off the heads of daffodils in the spring.
AlanofEngland
February 28th, 2008 8:10am Report this comment"...for membership but against Lisbon" What polls support this view? I suggest given the chance the public will take the chance to dump the rotten to the core EU with its rotten EMPs and challenge a decent UK government to join a free trade area, or common market that people of my generation thought we were supporting. That will give the great liars of the past Heath et al, a touch of "they don't like it up 'em"
adrian drummond
February 28th, 2008 8:51am Report this commentNot exactly a big talking issue in the papers this morning. I could hardly see a mention. This suggests than your headline is wishful thinking. Regrettably.
Paul Williams
February 28th, 2008 9:55am Report this commentI really hope this is true, but I can't find it on today's (Thursday) order paper or anywhere else. Is someone able to confirm this, it would be fantastic news if true
Dave B
February 28th, 2008 3:55pm Report this commentIs this story accurate?
Sam Pepson
February 28th, 2008 4:21pm Report this commentYes, it seems to be. Here is the relevant url. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmbills/048/amend/pbc0482702a.1319-1321.html
Not Tobrite
February 28th, 2008 5:37pm Report this commentI would think that Dr. Richard North of " eureferendum " has covered both the question and the answer on his blog.
Liberty Valence
February 28th, 2008 5:51pm Report this commentI am really looking forward to voting against both the Lisbon Treaty & the UK's continued membership of the EU. So let's hope the amendment on Wednesday carries for once.
David Lindsay
February 28th, 2008 6:12pm Report this comment"David Cameron and William Hague should take this opportunity to set out their position on Europe, for membership but against Lisbon." Who says that that is their position? The first part certainly is. But there is not the slightest evidence that the second part is, too.
Louis Cypher
February 29th, 2008 3:23pm Report this commentStill not much the the media about this and its Friday - what's happening?
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