Senator Edward Kennedy, 1932 - 2009

Mike

David Blackburn: this odious person would have been a nobody without the Kennedy clan support.

His failings are well documented. He was a colossus only with regard to his girth.

IH

Loathe him.

James

A man who gave comfort to terrorists and hated Britain.

Bruce Finch

Don't forget the episode with WIlliam Kennedy Smith in 1991 when Ted Kennedy woke his drunken nephews up and took them cruising for women ending up in a notorious rape trial after an attack on the woman Kennedy Smith brought back to the Kennedy estate. And all of this backed by Kennedy money, obtained through bootlegging by his appeasement father Joe Kennedy, who thougt we should give in to Hitler. He was always accompanied by a posse of lawyers (the first people to see Kennedy after Chappaquidick). So he had some major legislative achievements without doubt but was a deeply flawed individual with some serious scandals which would have unseated many others who had not had the outriders of Kennedy finance and the shock troops of his hardworking legal defence team.

Austin Barry

He was a preposterous coward. One would like him to meet Mary Jo in the Elysian Fields to explain his cowardice, but I suspect he may be headed in an entirely different direction.

Chris lancashire

Like some other Coffe Housers, your eulogy fails to resonate with me.

David Fleming

Utterly nauseating. I find it revolting that you so glibly describe his abandonding of Mary Jo to her agonising death as "fail[ing] to report the crime immediatly".

David

The references to his father are rather pointless. After all, his elder brothers distinguished themselves fighting in WW2.

THX1138

You cruel vile people, you should be ashamed of these hate filled comments.

Ted Kennedy RIP

Anne Wotana Kaye

An unpleasant man, a true son of his nasty, Nazi supporter of a father. He represented the typical "liberal" born with a silver spoon in his mouth, who endorsed the most politically correct causes, always with an eye on the future political benefits of doing so. The liquor merchants have lost a good customer.

DB

Kennedy's endorsement of Obama was in no way decisive in the outcome of the nomination battle as you suggest. It attracted attention for, at most, 24 of the thousands of hours of coverage and fascinated beltway pundits whose minds were already made up. It did not decide the outcome.

strapworld

Well written Vulture.

This man HATED the English. HATED! as all Kennedy's did and do!

We should remind people of this mans links with the IRA! and Irish nationalism in general.

An absolute coward who was a legend in his own mind! The world will not miss this one.

Fergus Pickering

What on earth, THX, is to be said FOR this odious man? He wss a cheat nd a liar. He left a girl to die in his car because he was too cowardly t get help for her. He supported the IRA as long aa it was fashionable. What exactly has he got going for him? Byron said it (about Lord Castlereagh).

Posterity will ne'er survey
A nobler grave than this:
Here lies the bones of Kennedy
Stop traveller, *** ****

John W

Bruce, UK

I totally agree with your comment. The man supported the IRA and their North American funding operation.

Peter Wilson

@THX1138: You cruel vile people, you should be ashamed of these hate filled comments.

'Cruel vile people' eh? What for writing stuff on an internet blog?

As opposed to those 'good kind people' who leave young women to drown, and fund other people to make bombs that kill innocent women and children?

Dmitri the Impostor

The US never extradited a single Irish criminal suspect to the UK. Pas un seul.

Now the US wants to lynch Gary McKinnon under a skewed and asymmetric treaty for causing $750K of economic damage and a bruise to its extremely bloated amour propre. And they interfere in other countries' judicial decisions. And and and ...

Oh, yes. The relationship is a "special" one all right and Edward Kennedy gave it more of a "special" je ne sais crois than most.

As for his bleeding heart postures, they were the usual typical luxury of the rich.

Thanks for your encomium, Mr Blackburn. Noted and filed.

Tom Pride

Ricky
August 26th, 2009 9:35am - Jonah McBeth had just knighted the man......no wonder he was doomed....

Yup, and Mandy’s just out of hospital.

richardb

odious man good riddance

frank goddard

THX.What a ridiculous comment.
This man was no friend of the English,neither was his father.
Good riddance, and god bless all those that suffered at the hands of the IRA.
Frank G...English pensioner

Daniel

My most vivid memory of the lovely "Teddy" Kennedy was about 20 years ago, when he approached a Para private in Northern Ireland and berated him for being a "murderer". The Para just ignored him and Kennedy was finally led away, none to reluctantly, when it appeared that the Para was about to lose his temper!! What a wonderful man!

CS

Vulture has it spot on in all respects other than his astonishment that a Coffee House pundit should fawn over Kennedy.

Surely you've learned by now that Coffee House pundits are obsessed not with the rights or wrongs of politics but rather with power.

They're like rabbits caught in the headlights when it comes to power and influence which is why they continue to suck up to the egregious Mandelson and treat his least fart as a pronouncement of poltical genius.

Personally, I use Coffee House these days to keep up on the political news. I've long since stopped relying on it for decent analysis (with a few exceptions).

AAE

@David Blackburn

What on earth motivated you to write such a piece? The man was close to being, if not in fact, a murderer, and Noraid paid for countless other murders (profiting Gaddafi in the process). Politicians gloss over such dreadful and painful realities with abandon, betraying those whose lives have been lost and wrecked, and this consensual puff can hardly be described as decent, let alone rigorous journalism.

David

The irony is how many posters here berate the left for being intolerant.

I disagree with Kennedy over a lot of issues, but can still recognise his achievements within his own ideological sphere, as well as his obvious flaws.

I see no reason for bile and vitriol.

Big Alec

Frank Goddard - "This man was no friend of the English,neither was his father."

Come on, no one likes the English. You can't blame the guy for that.

Tom Pride

And, I have thought that the IRA campaign was a part precursor of the 9/11 outrage. It was the IRA (with financial support from Noraid and its US supporters such as Edward Kennedy) which developed the terrorist strategy of targeting trophy / landmark buildings (with a casual disregard for incidental loss of life) to maximise worldwide press coverage.

Take that, add in the Tamil suicide bomber and the immoral disregard for individual life and liberty of an extreme statist ideology which deliberately seeks to maximise casualties and reap the whirlwind. At least he did realise the consequences of IRA support after that event and changed his ways.

Two other things –

I sympathise and share the US view on the release of al-Megrahi and his return to Libya. It must feel somewhat similar to what most of us in the UK felt on the release of unrepentant terrorist murderers from prisons as part of the Clinton inspired Northern Ireland Agreement.

As Mr Brown cosies up to Gaddaffi, has he forgotten the boat loads of Libyan arms and semtex (paid for by Noraid dollars) shipped to Ireland by that terrorist in chief – the UK’s reward for The Lady’s support of Ronald Reagan’s bombing run on Gaddafi?

Pete Hoskin

CS: Well, we've cited Mandy's "viciousness"...

http://is.gd/2zwj1

... and his ineffectiveness ...

http://is.gd/2zwqn

...in recent weeks.

But sorry to hear you feel that way about Coffee House's worth. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions, if you have any. Just fire an email to the usual phoskin @ spectator.co.uk address, or leave a comment here.

Victor Southern

A man who hated England [as did his father], who lead a largely disgraceful life - a perjurer, a panderer, a coward and a cheat.

A man who actively supported terrorism and the bombing of innocents.

He is not redeemed by his scheming and conniving Senate career.

Aged and Furious

768 service personnel killed in NI -mainly by US funded weapons. A young woman left to drown followed by a huge cover up. He had a part in both.

I struggle to see what overwhelming good Kennedy did to off set this and warrant a eulogy? If bloggers on here are 'cruel' what was Kennedy?

THX1138

Frank g my father was nearly killed in an IRA explosion in Long Acre in London so please don't lecture me on the sins of the IRA.

Ted Kennedy changed course on the IRA and ended
up working very hard behind the scenes with Clinton,
Blair, Mitchell & The IRA to bring about the peace settlement we all now enjoy. He should be cogratulated for helping bring peace to NI and a life lived to the full in public service whatever you think of his politics.

I'm frankly shocked by the hate expressed on this thread!

Rose

@THX1138: You cruel vile people, you should be ashamed of these hate filled comments.

No, the comments are the truth.

What is it about socialists that they laud evil in the name of compassion - yet have no compassion for the victims of evil.

On the other hand they persecute honesty and truth in the name of diversity and equality.

Was there ever such a warped bunch of 'devils spawn'? But at long last their days are numbered, and their heros dying: light is shining at the end of the tunnel. There are indeed green shoots stirring, but none that will bring succor to socialists.

The Bellman

'He condemned violence on both sides...' The last refuge of the moral coward. The violence of Enniskillen is conflated with the violence of Loughall, the legitimacy of a sovereign democratic government is eroded and the murderous actions of an illegal, unrepresentative terrorist faction dignified.

I have no desire to see Kennedy burn in Hell; but I hope he is confronted with the consequences of his actions at his judgement.

Oscar

I suspect Coffee House pundits are all anxious to keep in with the BBC for the sake of their careers. Or perhaps simply for the sake of the meal ticket. Such is the malign influence of that all powerful organisation.

strapworld

THX1138,

And I, sir, am astonished by your remarks.

The majority are against you and I believe you should ask your father for his views!

David

It will be interesting to see the reaction of some here when those on the left, as they clearly will, celebrate the death of Lady Thatcher.

A.F

Bad as he was, what does it say about those that voted to keep him in office.

David

"The majority are against you"
Mob rule, eh?

"I believe you should ask your father for his views!"

That's rather presumptuous of you. I'd say he knows his father's views better than you do.

MikeF

In all probability Ted Kennedy would never have risen as far as he did but for his family name. But the reality is that that name has had no real force - as opposed to prestige - since the late 1960s. Whether you attribute that to the assassination of Bobby Kennedy or the Chappaquidick incident is a matter of debate.

The extent to which Ted Kennedy's subsequent politics were a matter of principle and how much they were a matter of opportunism and self-promotion are also a matter for debate. But the only place that debate has any relevance is in the US.

So let Ted Kennedy rest in peace. The only wider point to be made is that the whole Kennedy era is now over. Even the name does not matter any more.

Andy Carpark

David @1:56 - You can have my reaction in advance. Howls of execration from the righteous left are the ultimate accolade, the shriller the better. But I doubt whether they will make too many charges of cowardice stick.

Meanwhile, I notice the following: (1) early use of the word "ironic" in your post of 12:37, a sure-fire sign of a someone bereft of factual arguments; (2) the failure to offer a shred of defence for Kennedy's foibles as detailed in the thread; (3) the failure to cite a single example of his achievements. Unless you count the making of pious noises at no personal risk as an achievement. Who knows? Maybe you do.

John Lea

So many people on here see the world in black and white: IRA = Bad, British Army = Good. Hey coffeehousers, it's a polkadot world!

Tim Smith

The ignorance displayed in this discussion is shocking.

Edward Kennedy never supported the IRA. He actually issued a statement on St. Patrick's Day in 1977 condemning those who supported the IRA's activities in the US (i.e. Noraid).

He was a strong supporter of the SDLP throughout the 1970s and 80s.

He only began speaking and meeting with Sinn Fein in the 90s because the SDLP told him that bringing Republicans in from the cold would help to end the conflict, which it did. The Irish-American lobby played a major role in securing the 1994 ceasefire that effectively ended the IRA's campaign in Northern Ireland itself.

Anyone who can prove otherwise without citing an editorial that spews the same baseless garbage as seen in this discussion will get a chocolate biscuit.

Victoria

God bless his soul; but as they say one will be judged on how you lived your life, when you die.

David

"Howls of execration from the righteous left are the ultimate accolade, the shriller the better."

I dare say the left may say the same thing about the reaction to the deaths of those on its side of the ideological scale.

"1) early use of the word "ironic" in your post of 12:37, a sure-fire sign of a someone bereft of factual arguments"

No, it's a simple sure fire sign that I've spotted something ironic.

"2) the failure to offer a shred of defence for Kennedy's foibles as detailed in the thread; "

I have no wish to defend them. In certain cases, he well deserves criticism.

"3) the failure to cite a single example of his achievements"

Well, there was leading the charge to deregulate the airline industry. As a Conservative, that's certainly an achievement I can get behind, much as we did here when Thatcher did the same.

"Unless you count the making of pious noises at no personal risk as an achievement. Who knows? Maybe you do."

No. I do on the other hand go for common, decent, Conservative decency. Something sadly lacking here.

Verity

He was a lying cad, a coward, a drunkard, a war-monger, a womaniser and a self-indulgent ambulatory (well, he had to walk to his car) tub of lard.

Chris

John Lea, the reason we see IRA = bad, British Army = good, is that IRA = bad, British Army = good. You can choose to abandon all moral judgement if you like, and dignify it with a silly metaphor; we prefer not to, thanks.

Verity

John Lea, what American TV series did you get "Hey ... it's a polka dot world" off?

Costello

A disgusting eulogy for a repulsive human being - As so many coffeehousers have already stated.

Costello

"You cruel vile people, you should be ashamed of these hate filled comments."

It's hateful to point out he caused the death of a woman and his first thoughts were how he could cover it up? It's hateful to point out that he was a major supporter for terrorists? Ted Kennedy should be judged like any other man - by his actions - and any moral, educated person who is aware of his history would condemn him.

Chris

John Lea, I simplify, but you are a simpleton. 'Say what you like about that Hitler, he had a lot of support.' (Yes, I know about Godwin's Law, but I know of no easier way to demonstrate that you are not making a case.) Bloody Sunday, which was a tragic aberration, does not detract from the moral superiority of the British Army over the IRA, which killed the innocent as deliberate policy.

ndm

The Spectator really needs to do some soul searching about why it is attracting such vile commentary. Clive Davis and Alex Massie have at least voiced their dismay at the form this (and other) comment thread has taken.

David Blackburn was right in his closing that:

-- Love him or loathe him, this man was a colossus; a great orator who had supporters and enemies on both sides of the political divide. For both the length of his service and for what he achieved, Kennedy will be remembered as one of America's greatest political figures.

I can only suppose the vile contempt shown in this column to be a product of ignorance.

Ian C

The idea that this man actually understood what the word 'inequality' actually meant has always seemed laughable.

As for his eventual u-turn on the IRA, he was supposed to be a an intelligent member of Congress, motivated to staesmanship. He learnt too darned late in life nad he has British blood on his coffin.

There were better Kennedy's.

strapworld

David, Mob Rule? what planet are you living on?

We live in a democracy where governments/ councils etc are elected on a majority! Votes in all meetings are decided on a majority. If that is mob rule I hate to think what your definition of democracy is!

On the father point. When someone uses a family member (as TGX did) it does not follow that the view expressed is supported by that family member.

I have had many friends and former colleagues killed or maimed by IRA atrocities, but does that add anything to the argument? Of course not.

Anyway I found your contribution juvenile.

Verity

ndm - Great orator or great windbag of the Capitol Hill variety? I am afraid your post is the product of ignorance. You have no idea of the contempt in which Edward Kennedy was held outside DC and the Martha's Vineyard tendency.

Gary Williams

Ted Kennedy a "colossus"?
I might be less scathing of every single thing the man did than some appear to be, but Ted Kennedy was about as much of a colossus as Harriet Harman is. If it weren't for the advantages of his father's ill-gotten wealth, his brothers' unique, iconic status, and the Senate rules which disproportionately reward seniority over competence or integrity, few people would have bothered with Ted Kennedy. If he had not had his huge headstart in life, he would have been lucky to get as far in politics as Mayor of Cape Cod.
Amongst the other revealing episodes of his "colossal" life, one might want to think about his having been expelled from university after having been caught cheating, and let us not overlook his crucial role in perverting and debasing the Supreme Court ratification process.
He was not the worst guy in the world, but he was very, very far from having been a great one.

TGF UKIP

THX 1138, your reaction is as predictable as that of your friends at the BBC - Lefties of the world united in grief and ever eager to excuse the sins no matter how heinous, so long as the hearts in the left place.

JohnAnt

"So let Ted Kennedy rest in peace."
No, let's not, it just encourages the Kennedys. Like the rest of them, he played the Old Democrat card when it suited him, also the New Democrat card, the Irish card, the anti-European patriotic American card, the IRA card, the 'Look that's enough with the IRA' card, the Catholic obedient Son-of-the-Church card, the liberal Catholic anti-clerical card, the union-friendly card, the boss-friendly card, the wealthy, privileged patrician card, and the man-of-the-people 'I feel your pain' card when canvassing for blue-collar and black votes.
This, contrary to mawkish public opinion, does not make him a many-sided statesman, but rather a slippery and self-indulgent big-mouth.
The Kennedys and the Gores - I don't know which of these pompous, self-aggrandising political clans is the less attractive.

THX1138

TGF

"THX 1138, your reaction is as predictable as that of your friends at the BBC"

As is all the hate poring out from the fringe right on this disgusting and vile comment thread

Ridcully

THX1138: You think this comment thread is "vile and disgusting?" Better keep away from Guido's blog then, I can't imagine what adjectives you would have to resort to.

2face

@THX1138
Kennedy and Clinton didn't create the peace everybody enjoys. 2-man teams of SAS and SBS commandos created peace by covertly snuffing IRA members. When the IRA terrorists became scared for their own lives, they suddenly became interested in peace.

Verity

Hmmmm ... John Ant. Neither do I. They both have a laughable, overweening sense of entitlement. Al Gore thought the world was going to snap to it when he put out his movie, whose name now escapes me, such is the fleeting nature of fame ... and although it flickered briefly, it was like a candle in the wind, was it not? And Al Gore has now abandoned it and gone the Hollywood route.

The Kennedy bedrock is now gone, Schwartzenegger's Shriver wife didn't get what I'm sure they consider familial terrain in Syracuse.

But it does show you how far you can go with a sense of entitlement.

Can I suggest that people who used to enjoy Conservative Cabbie's blogging on The Speccie go to his excellent site ... conservativecabbie.com for more on this. Go and have a look at his well-written and interesting blog. He needs traffic to get new posters. If you liked him before, you will like him now.

Verity

Number Plate, it is unfortunate that an individual like you feels he has something to contribute yet is unable to express himself articulately and grammatically. It must be frustrating to have to use pidgin English when you have so many things to say!

Can't you learn to spell what I assume is your mother tongue? In Singapore, there are children who can spell and write in three languages all the way through school. Is it too much to ask such a towering thinker and all-round plugged in individual such as yourself to be able to write competently in one language? There are people here, not just from Singapore, who can write in at least one other language in addition to their mother tongue.

Your term "fringe right" smacks of student politics, and from your embarrassing self-referential photograph that you posted on The Wall a couple of weeks ago, you are way, way past your student days, if you ever had any.

Further, I invite you to define "digusting and vile comment thread". If your definition is, "They are posts that don't agree with my self-elevating assessment", that doesn't count.

Austin Barry

THX

"As is all the hate poring (sic) out from the fringe right on this disgusting and vile comment thread."

I see nothing in the anti-Ted comments on this thread that are factually incorrect or inappropriate. 'Disgusting and vile' does though precisely describes a man who leaves a girl to drown.

Dmitri the Impostor

@9:41 Yes, we heard you the first time, and the second.

If you trouble to audit the comments on CiF yesterday you will find that the balance of sympathy is little different from that in Coffee House.

This isn't a fringe right thing. Not a bit. It's just that most people know a pious, grandstanding fraud when they see one.

Or two.

anon

for an accurate portrayal of the man, read this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1209313/Ted-Kennedy-The-Senator-Sleaze-drunk-sexual-bully--left-young-woman-die.html

in today's Mail.

THX1138

Verity

With apologies to Samuel Johnson but:

"punctuation is the last refuge of the scoundrel'

Verity

Number Plate, given that your Johnson quote has been changed by you to suit your purposes, what on earth was the point?

And given that Johnson was a specialist in the English language, having compiled the first complete English dictionary, the misquote - I'm sure intended to sound mischievous and witty - is so inept that it makes the blood run cold.

daustins

Let's see. A drunken man who passed four houses with telephones, told friends NOT to call for help to get Mary Jo out of the car, saying he would. And he did. Hours later. He slept off a drunk and then called his priest and his lawyer before the cops.

Had he not been a Kennedy he'd still be in jail.

Yes. A real prince of a man. Burn, baby, burn.

Simon Arnall-Culliford

A Kennedy was speaking at Harvard recently.

In 1974 I lived at Guildford, the IRA blew up the 'Horse and Groom' They missed me by 10 minutes. NORAID, a fund raising organisation for the IRA had collecting boxes in McDonalds. The Boston police also made donations to NORAID.

Harvard University have as yet made no comment