A devastating assessment
James Forsyth 12:36pm
This quote from a retired aide to General Petraeus about the British performance in Basra is, as Alex Massie says, devastating:
"The British failure in Basra was not due to the conduct of British troops, which was exemplary. It was, rather, a failure by senior British civilian and military leaders to understand the political dynamics ... in Iraq, compounded by arrogance that led to an unwillingness to learn and adapt, along with increasing reluctance to risk blood and treasure to conduct effective counter-insurgency warfare......British commanders attempted to cut deals with local Shia leaders to maintain the peace in southern Iraq, an accommodation that was doomed to failure since the British negotiated from a position of weakness."
To my mind, the key line in this critique is the last one. Governments should only talk to terrorists and insurgents when it is clear that the terrorists or the insurgents are losing militarily. Talking from a position of weakness simply emboldens them, encouraging them to think that they are on the verge of success. This is why it would be so foolish to reach out to the Taliban now.
Hat-tip: Tom Ricks
Previous
strapworld
September 5th, 2009 1:00pm Report this commentstep forward General Mike Jackson, Blair and Brown.
What a shower!
The Tower beckons.
Minnie Ovens
September 5th, 2009 1:27pm Report this commentThe fact is that the British have to exit Afghanistan gracefully.
How that is done is somewhat worrying in that the best theoretical method may not be used.
Brown has to twist and turn to attempt to come out of it looking good.
He is not comnpetent at doing this since he is not very competent at anything except hiding.
Unfortunately that possibly means that far more military blood has to be spilled than should be necessary.
Two points;
I'm uncertain as to who the terror is in the "war on terror". Westminster scares me more than anything in Leicester or Birmingham.
Training Afghani troops to ensure Afghanistan stability, an oxymoron if there ever was one, is a joke. It infers that there might be a stable base in the first place.
Talk to the Taliban now, talk later, don't talk at all?
In the medium term makes little difference, I'm afraid as I cannot see anything which will prevent them returning at their leisure.
It's Deja Vu all over again.
TrevorsDen
September 5th, 2009 1:44pm Report this commentSadly we have to regard Basra as a defeat - hiding that is just to protect Labour. And we must realise that we took the 'Basra' mindset into Afghanistan.
If Labour and the Milirary believe we performed well in basra then we have no change of winning 'our bit' in Afghanistan
and
If, given the restrictions placed upon them by Labour, the military thought they were doing the right thing in Basra they were sadly mistaken.
We are not in a desperate fight for national survival. The military should clearly limit what they do of the govt do not back up their words and ambitions with action.
Searcher
September 5th, 2009 2:42pm Report this comment"Governments should only talk to terrorists and insurgents when it is clear that the terrorists or the insurgents are losing militarily." Well, yes - but when terrorists are losing miltarily, why do we need to talk to them? Oh yes, I remember - because it worked so well in Northern Ireland.
JW
September 5th, 2009 3:00pm Report this commentIf you can imagine a very uncool aging uncle who's just read up on the latest fashion, then turned up at your 18th bash 'talking Jive' etc- and you've probably got a fairly close to the mark idea of the direction of 'political correctness / equality that now is relayed from the higher echelons of the Army.
They've been given an ideology to adhere to by people who've got it wrong from the start- the liberal left.
It's the same with the Police.
They just end up compramising their overall position, look weak and put at risk their own at the cutting edge.
It can't go on for ever.
mouse1
September 5th, 2009 3:48pm Report this commentLove it. A senior American officer accuses us of "arrogance that led to an unwillingness to learn and adapt". You couldn't make it up.
I don't remember the US Military having a wonderful track record when it comes to understanding local political dynamics, either.
Hysteria
September 5th, 2009 4:58pm Report this commentmouse 1 - well no - the point is though they have learnt to adapt - and we have forgotten what we knew.
drakes drum
September 5th, 2009 5:02pm Report this commentPerhaps the American was talking, retropectively, about Vietnam. It ticks every box!
Craig Strachan
September 5th, 2009 5:34pm Report this comment"Lions led by donkeys".
James J
September 5th, 2009 7:58pm Report this commentOur dominant political culture does not believe in military solutions and sees the armed forces, the army in particular, as a type of heavily armed police force.
You only have to consider the legal restrictions on our forces to see how ridiculous the whole thing has become.
With such a culture military operations are doomed from the start and should be avoided.
Fox in sox
September 6th, 2009 7:35am Report this commentLions led by donkeys? No worse than that. The disastrous first day at the Somme led quickly to tactical recognition of the need to change and the crushing victories of the battles of the 100 days in 1918. Similiarly we went from no combat aircraft in1914 to 20000 in 1918, organized as a completely new arm of the services. Sadly the MOD and top Brass lack the ability to change and adapt.
The Americans started badly in Iraq but have evolved effective means and will come out as victors, Basra was the most shameful British defeat since Singapore. We should learn from the yanks, much as it galls me.
george Firth
September 6th, 2009 8:14am Report this commentOnly total war and commetment to the destruction of the extremists in Afghanistan and neighbouring Muslim countries willsave the West from the New Barbarians. AP
Jeremy
September 6th, 2009 6:34pm Report this commentPersonally, I would consider it naive to accept the American version of events as being the whole truth and nothing but.
The American military can no more be trusted to tell the truth about the British, than Hollywood can be trusted to accurately represent British history or, indeed, the British character.
The only thing the Americans are good at is propaganda (about America, that is).
Back to top