John Denham’s Mosley comparison merely sensationalises race-tensions

Ctesibius

We don;t need to go back to the 1930's to remember widespread voilence and mayhem on the streets. Does the name 'Arthur Scargill' mean anything to Mr. Denham?

Austin Barry

As far as I can tell from the Sky reports about ten disconsolate white yobs, kettled by bobbies, were faced with a seriously agitated mob of, er, local community members. Denham is right to be worried though. There will be more of this.

Jez

I am sincerely glad you've taken the time to actually look at this- in a sensible manner anyway.

Here's a quick video of the leader of the 'Black Flag of the Caphilate' group, Anjem Choudary- speaking as the riots were unfolding, yesterday evening in Harrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Z8ryINZAM&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elionheartuk%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded#t=221

Any UAF/Respect members watching this;

Listen to what Choudary's Islam4UK & the rest of the militant UK Muslims really think of you.

I'd just like to explain that the fascist anti-semites in the 30's were the BUF.

Today the UK Islamafascist's are the anti-semites.

You are promoting a Muslim dominated Britain in the next 50 years by silencing any debate, any critical questioning or outright fairness across the board of this looming social disaster right now.

Peter from Maidstone

What is most shameful is a Communities Secretary unable and unwilling to address the real tensions within our national community. There are a lot of other people asking why Britain cannot be kept British in a manner which Labour has not allowed for the last 12 years. Keepign Britain British does not mean excluding other races and cultures, but it does mean insisting that British culture has primacy. I don't support violence - and there seem to be plenty of violent Muslims turning out onto the streets - but the simple argument of the EDL does resonate with a great many people.

Will Mossop

Another ignorant comment from another ignorant Labour minister.
No wander they will never see poweragain. Good.

Tiberius

Denham is adopting the typically idiotic view that the totalitarianism of white Right-wingers is revolting, while any other kind has some measure of justification.

Barbara

Why give it that kudos?
So NuLabour can set up a nice, irrelevant straw man to knock down, making them look oh-so-'ard. Wouldn't surprise me to learn they had a few agents provocateurs in there, stirring.

Suki

Denham doesn't give a damn about what happened in Harrow (where the pictures show people wearing T-shirts emblazoned with 'Soldier of Islam').

It's just the same old Leftist trick of trying to smear anyone who objects to the Islamification of this country.

As to re-engaging the white working class! What a hoot. They've got your number this time, Denham. You worry about re-engaging your colleagues in other forms of work. They won't get fooled again.

TrevorsDen

No matter what the motives of the EDL the only people I saw attacking the police were Muslims, many with Pakistan bandannas wrapped round their heads.

Denhams one-eyed remarks were totally at variance with who was actually carrying out the violence.

pete-s

The communities minister has deliberately mislabelled this group to give the impression they are BNP. This is a Labour tactic as there are scared of the votes they are losing to the BNP. So give the impression that this group are racist thugs. Where bin reality it was the pro Islam protesters who were rioting and carrying the weapons.

Steve.W

A large number of people from the left embrace the idea of 'fight the BNP', now what do they mean by that?

James

The English qualities that I believe in defending include tolerance and the the rule of law. As the EDL represent neither of these, Denham is right to issue a warning.
You do not have to be a politically correct Guardian reader to be repulsed by BNP/EDL

james

So groups of illiberal Muslims are now labelled anti-fascists & those who are forced to pay their unemployment/housing benefit are the fascists?!

more info/photos:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/09/911-remembrancestop-the-islamisation-of-europe-sioe-rally-attacked-by-muslims-in-the-uk.html

Verity

David Blackburn or the sub" What "race tensions"? What races would that be?

Islam is not a race. It is a religion, freely adhered to.

Islam is not a race. It is a religion, freely adhered to.

Islam is not a race. It is a belief system, freely adhered to.

The only religion that is also a race is Judaism.

Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam are not genetic. They do not carry gene patterns or racial characteristics. There was absolutely no valid reason to include the incendiary word "race" in your headline or your piece.

James

Tiberius:
The totalitarianism of right-wingers is revolting, as is the totalitarianism of left-wingers.
Labels at the extremes of politics are meaningless. You either have democracy and the rule of law or you don't.

Ray

"Denham is right to express concern that the EDL’s provocation tactics might incite extremism from the far-left, far-right and indeed militant Islam."

Since when has that multifarous bunch of malcontents called the far Left needed an excuse to throw bottles and bricks at the far Right?

James J

Anti-Fascists or anti-British?

Minnie Ovens

I quickly reviewed a few articles that have appeared over the past year with regard to the drastic affects of immigration on the ethnic population.
I have included snippets, some of which show that the present rate of immigration will have far seeing compounded effects on households and housing in the next ten years.
This takes no account of the negative social inter-reaction of differing cultures and increasing over-population.
John Denham is, at best, myopic in not realising this might happen, at worst, knew it would happen and didn't care.
There is no doubt that any clashes in the future have been set up and can be blamed on one body, specifically the Labour government.
Shame on you and your colleagues Denham.

"But even these changes are dwarfed by the inflow of the past decade, with official net immigration running at about 300,000 a year. In historical terms, it is quite an experiment. the efforts of a small, independent research outfit called Migrationwatch, which came on to the scene exactly five years ago this week. It issued a report that was denounced as alarmist, scaremongering, even racist.
By March this year (2007), the actuarial projection, based on 2004 figures, was that one third of the extra 223,000 households that would be formed annually by 2026 - ie, 73,000 - would be attributable to immigration.
In other words, the housing requirement caused by immigration to England is twice what was predicted when Labour took office just 10 years ago. This failure to acknowledge its level even now has badly affected local councils, which rely upon an accurate assessment of their population in order to qualify for Whitehall grants, and has obvious knock-on effects on other services such as education and healthcare.

2)It was a prediction that Britain could expect to receive more than two million immigrants every 10 years for the foreseeable future unless curbs were introduced. It was absolutely spot on, but few thanked Sir Andrew Green, the retired diplomat who founded Migrationwatch, for pointing it out. More than that, efforts were made - including official ones - to traduce his motives and to trash his group's research.

echo34

look at the media..

right wing fascists cause the trouble.

muslims get to "express their anger"

different rhetoric for each.

Ricky

Like many people I find the street fighting Right pretty obnoxious.

However, I am fascinated by the fact that a number of the young street fighting Muslim youths were sporting Pakistani flags and bandanas.

Is this the multicultural vision Denham and others are trying to protect? Or does it reflect a serious division in our society that Denham and his cohorts are really responsible for?

Rhoda Klapp

What makes the EDL right-wing? What makes Islamists not right-wing? What gives a religion the protection of anti-racist laws? Does that apply even to a racist religion? Or any religion no matter how distasteful or criminal?

If anybody has actual answers, rather than the cynical or partisan answers I might give to such questions, I'd like to know.

Ann

Denham is an ignorant idiot. The violence on the streets of Harrow came from adherents of the religion of peace. Even the BBC has been forced to admit this.

Ann

Verity, as usual, talks through the back of her neck. There is no such thing as a 'race'. The Jews are not a 'race', they are an ethnicity, a nation.
Oh, and so are the Sikhs. Ever heard of them, babe?

William

Because of course, it isn't really provocation when Islamic extremists take to the streets now is it (witness the furore over the Danish cartoons)?!

Alf Tupper

To all those people who fear the Islamification of the UK, there is a simple remedy: read the adjacent blogs of Dr Massie and Dr Davis.

There you will discover that in fact, you only THINK there's a problem. It's all in your mind.
Nothing to worry about; your kids will be perfectly happy in the UK of the future.

Their comforting words always make me feel that much happier when I am beset by such febrile imaginings.

C Powell

Given the well-documented links between the Islamists and fascism from the 1930's onwards, the inspiration which Islamist ideologues got and continue to get from fascism (not just in their attitude to liberal democracy but in their glorification of violence and violent anti-Semitism) and the way that the Islamists seek to use violence or the threat of violence to shut down anyone who disagrees with them, why can Denham not see that the fascists here are the Islamists? Oh, I forgot: they're practically the only people who will vote Labour next time and, after all, they're only in this country as a result of Labour's malevolent immigration policies.

The Left's appeasement of and cosying up to totalitarian ideologies, whether Communism in the past or islamofascists now is utterly repellent and one reason why I hope they will never again hold power.

Nicholas

Denham and his government are beyond parody. They are the biggest fascists in town and whatever violent disorder extremists of both persuasions engage in is entirely the consequence of New Labour policy and/or New Labour incompetence.

They were the ones who thought "cake and eat it" immigration was a good idea, who rammed multi-culturalism and diversity down our throats and who suppressed the freedom of speech to oppose it without being accused of being a racist or one of the other pejoratives the Left use against those who dissent. New Labour alone have exacerbated immeasurably the racial and religious tensions in our society and introduced stupid laws which have had a completely negative effect on the situation. And New Labour are the people who rushed into wars abroad and ignored the powder keg here.

So Denham, you stupid little man, take that great beam out of your own government's eye before you point out the splinters in the eyes of those, white or asian, who have to deal with the consequences of your folly, day in and day out.

Tiberius

James: I'm attempting to characterize Denham's view, not make an academic judgement.

Austin Barry

The truth, horrible for our politically correct masters to contemplate, is that the Harrow 'riot' was by muslim youth. Harrow as banlieue 13 is a difficult concept to consider: what would Winston Churchill, a pupil at the school on the hill, make of it? Actually, we know, he wrote "Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith."

Archie

Well Mr. Denham, welcome to the wonderful multi-cultural paradise that you and your incompetent apology for a government have created! We won't listen any more! You and the rest of the vile, duplicitous creeps who throw 'racism" at any voters - your employers, Mr. Denham - who are concerned about the turning of many of our cities into third-world hell-holes. I will do cartwheels down Regent Street when you lot are booted out at the next election.

Suki

Alf Tupper, I've stopped clicking on those other bloggers you mention.

It only encourages The Spectator to keep using them.

There's plenty more out there well informed than those two.

Beer Moth

Rhoda.

In my estimation, the contortions you cite, are all part of a desperate attempt to delay catastrophe.

Avoidance now is impossible, and the best we are offered by those who have led us to this sorry pass, are these attempts to smother and hamper the realisation in the public, that history is back; that they are headed towards the horror and violence that they had thought would never return.

James J

Ann, just because something is repeated often enough or would be nice if it was true does not make it true. There is such a thing as race just as there is such a thing as a breed of dog or natural variants of other animals living in different environments.
Races can be identified not only by the obvious physical differences but at the level of DNA.
Because you want something to be true does not automatically make it true.

Mr Ian Price

Denham typically displays how out of touch with reality politicians are. Its not a question of fascism or racism. It's not anti Muslim or anti Asian. It's about British passport holders committing treason and being allowed to get away with it. The government is afraid to do anything that threatens their gravy train jobs. We don't mind having a multi racial society but we don't want an evil medieval regime taking over here and it will while we remain unrepresented.

Verity

Ann - The Sikhs are a nation! Who knew?

I have indeed heard of them, babe, and met many when I lived in India - many of them in the armed services and the police.

The Jews aren't a race? Are Semites a race? (I realise this includes Arabs who tend not to be Jewish.)

What about Common Purpose, Ann? Is it a race, an ethnicity or a religion? Or just a weapon of repression?

Habib Siddiqui

I agree with John Denham's statement that the planned demonstration by the hate group was nothing short of provocation to incite violence, and that the group's behavior is similar to fascist groups of the past. Unless such hate-groups are controlled right now, the UK will be visited by one of the worse hate crimes of the new century.

Evangelion

The UAF and the Islamists have one thing in common, anti-Zionism. The UAF/Socialist Workers Party want Israel wiped of the map. David Cameron a signatory to the UAF charter needs to distance himself from this front group, who are the real reason young Muslims are on the streets confronting the Police. The UAF needs to be stopped before someone gets killed due to their provocation.

Austin Barry

Perhaps, instead of 'multi culturalism' with its implicit sub-text of the benefits of 'culture', we should use 'multi tribalism' with all its implicit pejoratives. Because that is what we have, raw and torpid like a gun on a table.

MikeF

Nothing is more predictable or contemptible that this failing, pointless administration should now have recourse to that old standby of the left - 'anti-fascism'. It is puerile, but also of course irresponsible and inflammatory. Nevertheless if the members of this adminstration think that that is a tactic that might keep them off the dole queue next year then they will play it. Stand by for some particularly wrteched posturing over the next few months.

I believe Mr Denham has said something about the EDL seeking to "exploit" the white working class. Well maybe that is the case - but what has made them exploitable in the first place? That is the crucial question and one to which Denham and his like are never going to give an answer.

Andy

We would not need a "Communities Minister" if Labour had not systematically destroyed the indigenous community by unlimited immigration and multiculturalism. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Verity

While I'm at it, John Denham, you have the look of someone who refers to Pakistanis and/or Muslims as "Asians" to avoid using the words Pakistani and Muslim which tells us that, in your mind, you think both of these words are perjorative and make you uncomfortable. Why is that?

And Pakistanis are only from the sub-Continent of Asia. They're not "Asians" the way the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and SE Asians are Asian. So could we bin this stupid construct, please?

Also, is it not a vivid sign of the problem in Britain that people refer to third generation Pakistanis as "Asians"? Could it be because they are still masquerading in their primitive desert attire, keeping themselves intentionally separate from our nation in which we have a stake and they do not?

Jez

Just listened to the EDL spokesperson getting even more of a taste of liberal-left media reality on Radio 5 just now.

These liberals really won't accept what's going on, will they.

Jez

Habib Siddiqui
September 12th, 2009 10:14pm

"I agree with John Denham's statement that the planned demonstration by the hate group was nothing short of provocation to incite violence, and that the group's behavior is similar to fascist groups of the past. Unless such hate-groups are controlled right now, the UK will be visited by one of the worse hate crimes of the new century."

Very interesting Habib.

Could you please tell me what your personal opinion is in regard to the Gaza protests that shook London in January?

Many thanks.

Cassandra

The accelerants needed for a conflagration are in place. The only question is when the spark will come. If past history is anything to go by it will be an absurd little trigger event (Bosnia was warmed up by an urban myth of Bosnian muslims sodomising a Serbian boy with a bottle, the actual shooting up of a Bosnian Muslim wedding by Serbs helped). In the absence of any sensible political discourse, violence will follow. Ironically, the sooner it happens the easier it will be to damp down and address. Glad I live in the sticks.

terence patrick hewett

This is simply an argument between International Socialism and National Socialism; one produced Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot the other Hitler and Mussolini. Not much of a choice.

Alan Akbah Me Old Matee

I think that the overwhelming majority of Britons - as evidenced by recent opinion polls regarding immigration levels - are rightfully opposed to the excessive influx of uneducated and unskilled economic migrants or benefit scroungers.

I see the issue as twofold. Firstly we have the inordinate amount of immigrants, primarily of Asian origin, far beyond that which the country can maintain economically or culturally. Secondly, due to such massive influx of said immigrants and their associated religion, we have a terrifyingly strident, unashamed and expanding faction of Islamic extremists within our land.

Combined, this is causing and shall cause further problems for our economy, housing, environment, welfare, policing, security, crime, comity, camaraderie, neighbourship and society in general.

It is undoubtedly simplistic and racist to blame all Asians for Islam's excesses, or indeed all Muslims for a few abhorrent religious maniacs. However it is simply a numbers game: the 2 million or so Muslims living here invariably accommodate a significant faction of terrorists and sympathizers; that fact is indisputable. Remove Islam from Britain and you shall find there is no terrorist threat.

People are rightly incensed and exasperated that we should continue to import those who, at one extreme, seek to kill us, and at the other extreme seek to transform our country. The focus of this transformation is rooted in the Quran. Make no mistake: proselytizing religions such as Christianity and Islam strive to convert. The immigrant adherants of Islam are, unfortunately, from countries where religion is somewhat more important than here in Britain. The religion itself, as taught and believed in these countries, is somewhat more violent and aggressive than that to which we are accustomed.

In short, it is madness and morally repugnant to wilfully import millions upon millions of barbaric religious nutters, many of whom hold views about women, gays and Jews that would have been outdated in the 1800s. Skilled immigration for specific jobs is understandable, welcomed and to be promoted. Wholesale immigration by the millions for no purpose other than "multiculturalism" is tantamount to cultural suicide.

Nick

What the hell is going on? I couldn't believe the comments by this elected "representative" - harking back to the 30s? What is he talking about? No one in the EDL was alive then. I certainly wasn't. So far as Islam is concerned, my memory goes back precisely eight years. And plenty has happened since then to make me genuinely and legitimately concerned for the future of MY culture. Max Hastings, of all people, wrote in the Mail this week that Mohammad is now the third most popular boy's name in England - and that fact is being covered up. Why?

Because, as this idiot of an MP has just shown, this country of ours is being betrayed by the very people whose job it is to protect it.

They just don't want to have the debate, to address the actual issues at stake here.

But it looks like the citizens of this fine country are going to take matters into their own hands.

TomTom

Mosley was a Labour Minister ousted by Ramsay MacDonald for his Keynesian approach to Depression. Why does Denham draw attention to Labour and Mosley so blatantly ?

Simon

I heard Denham's statement while watching the news which was showing pictures of hundreds of rioting Muslim youths and a few white men surrounded by the Police. It did bring home the biased level of reporting of this sort of thing.

I think the ten or so protestors will have been very pleased with this coverage as it does hightlight their cause well. I should think that was one of the most successful protests of recent years when you consider that ten people turned up, achieved worldwide publicity for their cause, were escorted back to their cars and went home. Well done to them.

Ben Shand

Habib Siddiqui.

"Unless such hate-groups are controlled right now, the UK will be visited by one of the worse [sic] hate crimes of the new century."

Thanks so much for that insight.

Is this personal prophecy or does it have a more substantial basis, the details of which perhaps, as a responsible community member, you might want to share with the Police?

Mike Spilligan

John Denham should first ponder why his job is necessary - then he should come swiftly to the conclusion that his present and former colleagues in Nu-Lab have created the job for him -and previously, that other know-nothing, Hazel Blears.
Also it's clear that Denham doesn't even know "up" from "down", let alone "left" from "right"; but he does know that it's an opportunity to try to conflate the philosophies of the BNP, the EDL (if it has any) and the Tories.

Jez

The 'Casuals United' are (they say on their website anyway) going to oppose 'Hizb al Tahir'(Hizbollah?!) as they march through central London today.

My frustration is at the lack lustre establishment that have made it possible for sufficient numbers of completely alien cultures to come to the UK and then feel they need to march through British cities.

(Is that their right?)

Well it wouldn't have been 40 years ago- but due to the absolute mismanagement of the social situation in this country; by the successive governments, we have people who say;

(Quote) In the Muslim world, Hizb ut-Tahrir works at all levels of society to restore to the Muslims a means of
living an Islamic way of life under the shade of the Khilafah State (Caliphate) following an exclusively
political method."

- and have thousands of their followers marching through British streets publically stating this.

Unfortunately i cannot physically travel to London and personally participate countering this demo today- i would though (if i was going) be careful to avoid any Casuals- as i feel there's a certain way of making your feelings heard.

I would though, certainly plant myself near/with anyone from communities that have to live daily under the threat of radical Islamic fundamentalism (e.g. Bradford, Luton, Stoke, Dewsbury and Israel) that are as outraged as i am that these people have thousand stong demo's just to tell the British 'sub-humans' just what their going to do in approximately 30 years.

Scandalous.

Roy

Whose brilliant idea was it to start all this off and bring in these different looking ethnicities? Looking back on the 1930's sound like sweet dreaming, the present reality is a nightmare.

egh

As I skim through this strand one feature strikes me:
Total disconnect between Rulers and the Ruled.
The rulers are apparently a race apart, who have no recognition of the so-called electorate. So many grains of sand for treading on, is what the British People have become.

The so-called electorate can talk, riot, and believe in the integrity of the electoral system- but they are irrelevant to the Ruling Race.

As for those aliens and intruders who may not be named or labelled:

Roy whetston

The last twenty years has seen the abolition of the Anglo-Celtic people. The liberal elite have seen them replaced by Africans, Poles, Asians and God knows what. If they were an endangered species of woodpecker Bono would be staging gigs for them. So a bunch of English kids throw some stones this is meant to be shocking - I don't think so.

Procrustes

Denham is using the same argument Blair did for third world debt - the problem magically appeared and it had absolutely nothing to do with the UK government or its policies. But the good guys will now fix it.

Blair's argument was pathetic and shallow at the time and Denham's attempt to recycle it reveals the bankruptcy of thought pervading government.

Jez

Breaking;

The EDL *will* be (attempting to- if not attacked) peacefully opposing the outragous Hizbollah march through London today- as before it was only stated that the seperate more confrontational 'Casuals United' were to be organising a presence.

Fron the EDL's website;

"13th September 2009: London
The Home Office bent over backwards to ban us from Luton, yet Hezbollah, a Muslim Terrorist Organisation's supporters are due to march through London this coming Sunday. I wonder if we have missed the Al-Qaida March? We urge everybody who can to come to London to oppose this. More to follow."

Welcome to NuLab's 2009 Nu-Britain 2009.

Nightmare.

Ann

"Are Semites a race?"

No, Verity, they are not a race, for the simple reason that there is no such thing as a 'race' and there is no such thing as 'Semites'. This is an invention by a German pseudo-scientist racist called Wilhelm Marr. If you want to swallow his lies, that's your problem. If you wish to propagate them, then I will counter them.

Ann

James, there is no such thing as a 'race' in the way that you and Verity (and Marr) are pushing the concept. A 'race' suggests purity, and there is no such thing. There is genetic AFFINITY, but not PURITY. That is wht the Nazi theory of race, based on Marr's ignorant theories, was dumb as well as evil. Ditto for anti-black prejudice.
At the fundamental genetic level, all humans are far, far more closely related to each other than they differ from each other, let alone differ from other species. Even within seemingly monolithic ethnic groups, there is great variance at an even finer (!) level, so they are not monolithic.

old fogey

I fled Birmingham (!) nearly twenty years ago, because of the increasing Islamisation of the city. A recent visit, with friends,was appalling. The disconnect between the governed and the governing class is so vast, and in fact beyond repair, that eventually the peoples opposed to Islam, whether radical or not, will have to , one day, take matters into their own hands. It will not be pretty, but it will be come to be seen as unavoidable.
One thing has long baffled me; the curious, informal alliance between Islam and the European left. I can see the left are using Islam as a agency with which to criticise America,capitalism and western values (since the demise of Marxism and socialism), but did they not appreciate that they too would be swallowed up in the coming to power of the sharia adherents; that feminism, freedom to engage in homosexual activity, etc. would be proscribed. Now I realise that the left are not deluded on this; to them it is a price worth paying, in order to emasculate America and bury capitalism. The more distasteful, to them, side effects will occur only after they have long gone, and until then they will still preserve their jobs, their grip on public polity and discourse and the cringing deference of the BBC and the liberal media in igeneral. Denham is a disgrace, but then I regard Boris Johnson's comments re. ramadan in the same light.

John Bracewell

I live in Britain and I do not like:
1. Women/men who wear secretive clothing in public, for security/safety reasons.
2. Violence from any group.
3. ‘Religions’ which foster hatred and violence.
4. Police women having to don scarves to enter a religious building.
5. Weddings where men and women are segregated into single sex groups.
6. Enclaves of people living in ‘no-go’ areas.
7. Generations of immigrants who continue to wear their parents’ style of clothing.
8. People having lived for sometime in this country that cannot or will not speak English.
9. Indiscriminate bombing of innocent people in an attempt to adopt another style of living.

WHY?

It is simple. I am English and therefore British. The British way of live has been and still should be along the following lines:
1.People in public should be recognisably dressed.
2.Violence is not displayed by the British, only when at war and part of the Armed Forces.
3.The British Police have a uniform which is recognisable and need not be varied to suit part of the population and have the right to go anywhere in Britain.
4.Men and Women are equal in Britain and should be allowed to mix and go anywhere it is legal to go, together or separately.
5.Ghettoes should not be part of the British way of life.
6.Immigrants and their descendants who have chosen to live in Britain should adopt first and foremost British culture, whilst continuing their previous culture in private if they wish.
7.People living in Britain should be able to communicate with each other in the language of the land.
8.No group should or should be allowed to try to change the British culture to their own minority view except by reasoned argument and persuasion.

I want to live in a Britain that I recognise from 40 years ago, multi culturism is being allowed to change this land into a place of increasing strife and danger, and one unrecognisable to the indigenous population. This does not happen in other countries,for example, if a British person travels to a country which prohibits alcohol they are not allowed to flaunt that belief/way of life and must conform to that country’s wishes.

Verity

Allan Akbar (great name!) - I agree with almost everything you say, but, you write: "It is undoubtedly simplistic and racist to blame all Asians" - Asia isn't a race; it's vast and very diverse continent that includes 1.3bn Chinese, 1.1bn Indians, Koreans, Mongolians, Singaporeans, Malaysians, Vietnamese, Thais, Laos, Kampucheans and Indonesians. These people are all generally respected. ... "for Islam's excesses, or indeed all Muslims for a few abhorrent religious maniacs." Until Islam is Reformed, and as followers of Mohammad have to buy into the whole thing, basically everyone who adheres to this religion approves of "up to four wives", desexing little girls to make them passive and good little breeders, conversion by the sword - meaning kill unbelievers if they refuse to convert, and killing apostates; a daughter can only inherit one half of what a son inherits; it takes the word of two women in court to equal the word of one man; swearing an oath means exactly zilch when the lie was told in the service of Islam, and killing homosexuals. Again, none of these are charactistics found in "Asians". They are discretely Muslim.

(Most Asians value truthfulness, for example.) These are Arabic desert beliefs that have spread to dumps like Pakistan and Afghanistan, which had never developed civilisations of their own. Please stop referring to Pakistanis as "Asians" and give them their nationality, Pakistani.

Ann - you obviously have a bee in your bonnet. There are five, some would say six, races.

Old Fogey - Yes, Islam is a weapon for the left to bully the owners of Britain and Europe. The only entertaining part of all this is, the Islamics owe them no loyalty and will not take orders from them. In other words, the the destructive, vicious left has a tiger by the tail and now, entirely predictably, they can't let go.

daniel maris

Ann - Both Jews and Sikhs are defined as a race by our legal system. Go figure!

As for the substantive issue, no doubt the BNP and Neo Nazis are lurking behind this provocation.

That's irrelevant, in as much that they will always seek to exploit any political situation for racist ends.

What is relevant is why the Left-Liberal establishment are unable to look Islam squarely in the eye and see it for what it is.

Islam is as much a totalitarian political ideology with global ambitions as Communism or Nazism. It was a big mistake to allow two million of its adherents into the country and it is an even bigger mistake now to appease Islam in all the many and various ways that Labour ministers do.

We need to stop Shariah and roll it back.

Brewster

The real fascists in this set-up are the UAF - a very unpleasant organisation with links to the Labour Party. They deserve each other.

Rob

If Government Ministers are not telling outright lies they distort the facts to justify their silly and incompetent policies.

Anne Wotana Kaye

If only! If only there was a really charismatic patriot to lead a party in opposition to the rubbish sitting in 10 Downing Street. If only there was a person of integrity, brilliance and love of country who could heal and restore this land, and stop it becoming a Third World state, with banana state values and morals. If only the politically correct blind could see that the fascists in this scenario are religious fanatics, who play the rotten system to a fine art. Its not just housing and benefits of which they grab the lion's share, its power. And this is just teh beginning. Unless the citizens of Britain arouse themselves and show their mettle it will be too late. If only!

Jez

daniel maris;

"As for the substantive issue, no doubt the BNP and Neo Nazis are lurking behind this provocation."

*sigh*

They really aren't pal.

Do some reading on the subject with maybe a little less speculating- and you'll find people will recieve your arguments far better... and ironically, apart from that ridiculous origional statement, you're 100% correct in the rest of your statement above (as an opinion).

Here's the latest;

Guardian 18 minutes ago;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/13/english-defence-league-protest-palestinian

"... the English Defence League were today involved in a standoff with pro-Palestinian demonstrators in central London.

There were several brief confrontations as EDL activists chanted... 'Muslim bombers off our streets'."

The demonstration's organiser, Raza Kazim, from the Islamic Human Rights Commission, said:

"It's (The Al-Quds demo)in aid of the oppressed people of Palestine in particular, but the idea of al-Quds is more general than that. It's for people who have been oppressed. We look through the prism of Palestine and the kinds of things that have happened to the Palestinian people. We have come out to say that we are with them..... Asked about opposition to the rally, Kazim said people including supporters of Israel usually protested.

But with them, he said, were "the BNP, the EDL, the racists, the extremists - all of this unholy alliance have got together" to say oppression should continue."

The only thing unholy is the Far-Lefts embrace of anti-semitism.

Like it or lump it;

Those lads today, the EDL (and not the horrible picture provided by the Guardian article), have countered a demo calling for a Caphilate of Muslim control in the UK, universal anti- Israeli propoganda to be adopted in Britain and support for Hizbollah.

This with a massive real threat to their well beings and maybe even their lives after the violence unleashed in their direction by UAF/Muslim thugs previously.

As an opinion, the EDL don't sound like Neo-Nazi's to me!

Verity

Daniel Maris - And this illiterate government defines Islam as a race. They are totally disconnected from reality.

You write "As for the substantive issue, no doubt the BNP and Neo Nazis are lurking behind this provocation." Insofar as I understand it, the BNP draws its skirts away from such events, so your assumption may be wrong. They are inching toward respectability and do not want to be labelled a party of thugs.

As I mentioned above, the socialist/Gramcsis/Trots/Marxists cannot now alter their position on Islam because they have a tiger by the tail. Most amusing.

Do not, incidentally, imagine for one minute that David Cameron would do one thing differently regarding the immigrants, their refusal to integrate, and all the many special rights and favours and free passes accorded them. To repeat: David Cameron would not do one thing differently. That would be to set his face against the EUSSR, where his well-polished, comfortable future lies.

Anya

For what it's worth, I've felt I've been experiencing the 30s ever since Labour came to power. The hunting ban (banned in Germany in 1934), the increasing authoritarianism and surveillance, political correctness/appeasement, the recession/depression followed by quantitative easing (risking hyperinflation). Now there's the EUropean superstate trying to swallow us up whether we like it or not. A big bust up can't be far behind.

a semite!

Jez, now I've got the proof of your silliness guys.
not all muslims are semites and not all semites are muslims, proof again that you're not educated much. go ask yourself what is a semite and a non semite, I think wikipedia will do this time.
then, to add up to what i am saying, you should understand that chaudary and co do not form a majority so i don't understand what's with you.
then know that a lot of blacks, whites and chinese and russians and polish and so on............ are muslims in this country so i don't know where you hope to get this time.

Ann

It's hilarious to see Verity sounding off on 'integration' and 'stake in this country', when she doesn't even live here, having upped and left when things got a bit difficult.
We who live here have a stake; she doesn't.

Ann

"Ann - you obviously have a bee in your bonnet. There are five, some would say six, races."

Nonsense. You are the one with a bee. I am looking at the scientific facts.
The whole concept of 'race' is scientifically meaningless. It cannot be defined rigorously, because it's based on a fallacy. There are probably 100 distinct ethnic groups in Africa alone, but with somewhat blurred boundaries in some cases and sharp ones in others; yet to some people all these people are simply 'black'.

The fact that the idiots in charge of our legal system use this term proves nothing. English and UK law are full of inconsistencies and downright stupidities. These great legal minds can't even grasp the fact that Jews can be both members of a distinct religion and members of a distinct ethnicity: it's just too difficult for these fine minds.

Augustus

The populism and fascism of the 1930s has long been discredited.
The problems of the 21st Century
(immigration, Islamism, bankruptcy of welfare states, financial panic, and every-man-for-himself feelings that people got living in a consumer society) are different. There is a new cast of extremists, many of whom are adept at gaming
a legal system focussed on the past, the most hardened of whom are living among us. But why is ethnic pride a virtue, and nationalism a sickness? Why has it suddenly become criminal to ask questions today that was considered a citizen's duty to ask ten years ago? The person of average intellect and social status today is certainly confused and disempowered.

Immigration politics in Europe, unlike America, has become a major pivot of politics. In Europe the immigration problem is the race problem, so declaring immigration a success
and an 'enrichment' becomes the only acceptable opinion, and to declare immigration a failure is
all but reveal oneself a racist. To express misgivings becomes a confession of racist inclinations. Real discussions about the increasing diversity of European society, and whether it is a good or a bad thing, are all but shut down.

logdon

Demonising by definition?

In Britain the SIOE is trashed by the right wing extremist nomenclature and thus John Denham without even remotely examining the facts on the ground, the video evidence or, come to that, eye witness accounts, places blame for the recent rioting and unrest on ‘white right wing hooligans’.

Here’s evidence which squarely contradicts his stance, in fact it’s the polar opposite to his deceit.

The big lie, tried on time after time is unravelling and any glance at reader response to these recent stories and subsequent official fabrication will show that, at last we the public are awakening from the deadly malaise of blind acceptance.

This article busts the myth and shows how in league Islamism is with totalitarian dictators and Nazi groups who share precisely the same sentiments of gross antisemitism.

Neo-Nazis Join Islamists at Al-Quds Day Demonstration in Berlin

It is misleading to describe Germany's contemporary Nazi groups as “right-wing."
September 13, 2009 - by John Rosenthal

Alongside the internationally better known National-Democratic Party of Germany or “NPD,” the German People’s Union (DVU) is one of the two main German political parties of the so-called “extreme Right.” As discussed in my earlier PJM report here, in German usage this expression is, in effect, just a euphemism for neo-Nazi currents and
organizations. Both the NPD and the DVU are officially classified as “right-wing extremist” organizations by Germany’s domestic intelligence service, the so-called Office for the Protection of the Constitution or “Verfassungsschutz.” A statement published by the DVU on Wednesday, however, makes clear just how misleading it is to describe Germany’s contemporary Nazi groups as “right-wing.”

The topic of the DVU statement [German link] is the “Al-Quds Day” demonstration that was held on Saturday in Berlin. The statement reads as follows:

Just as we are following with sympathy the development of friendly relations between Venezuela, Russia and Iran, we also see ourselves as standing in solidarity with the victims of Zionist occupation in Palestine.

Zionism is, moreover, a problem of worldwide dimensions, which affects the lives of all peoples. The coming together internationally, shoulder to shoulder, of all patriots is therefore more than appropriate.

For us it is a matter near to ours hearts to draw attention to the Jerusalem Day demonstration this upcoming Sunday in Berlin and to call [on our supporters] to join in the demonstration in a dignified manner.

A “right-wing” movement that approves of Hugo Chavez’s Marxist regime in Caracas and its developing ties with Russia and the Iran of the Islamic Revolution?!
0D
The DVU statement is followed by the official announcement of the Berlin “Al-Quds Day” demonstration by the sponsoring organization, the Quds Association [Quds AG]. The announcement appears under the words: “In the Name of the All-Merciful.” The first paragraph begins as follows (capitalization and bolding in the original):

There are different designations for the PROBLEM of our global community: “international finance capital,” “imperialism,” (in Arabic) “Istikbar,” “the Great Satan and his allies,” “globalized power,” etc. One can call it what one wants. The foundations of the PROBLEM are to be found in the USA, England and Israel. For over 60 years, the Palestinian people has been made to feel this constellation of power more intensively than anyone else. The brutality practiced by the Israeli military regime for the last three years in the largest open air prison in the world, the Gaza Strip, makes clear what the global community can expect from the ideology of Zionist domination in the 21st century. Unqualified loyalty to Zionism has become the glue holding together the EU and thereby the Zionists are seeking step by step to get control over the EU structures.

The announcement goes on then to call on demonstrators to “do something against the warmongers in Palestine, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Lebanon” and against E2the oppression and exploitation of many nations.”

One of these nations appears indeed to be Germany. Thus we read further on:

There is an economic assault of international finance capital on the Federal Republic of Germany occurring, whereby a large part of the population is being gradually pushed into poverty. Hand in hand, we must build an acceptable resistance to globalized injustice.

Apart from the religious invocation of the “All-Merciful,” the essentially “leftist” tenor of the above is unmistakable. It is, moreover, hardly surprising that Nazis would endorse such an appeal. Railing against the evils of “finance capital” — or, in the original, “Jewish finance capital” — has, after all, been a traditional staple of Nazi discourse. The essential continuity between the principal “enemies of humanity” identified by the Quds AG – the USA, England, and Israel/“Zionists” — and those targeted by Nazi propaganda is equally obvious. (Even the reduction of Great Britain just to “England” is a classically Nazi touch.)

In any case, the DVU’s expressions of sympathy for the Venezuela of Hugo Chavez and its support for the “Al-Quds Day” demonstration raise an obvious question for the officials of Germany’s Office for the Protection of the Constitution. Instead of insisting upon a 9
Cright-wing extremist” designation that only breeds confusion, why not simply call a Nazi … a Nazi?

(For some related articles, see my earlier PJM report “German Neo-Nazis View Islamists as Allies” and Jan Langehein’s “Germany’s Other Anti-Globalists: Neo-Nazis Against the G-8” on World Politics Review. Hat-tip to Thomas von der Osten-Sacken and the German-language Wadiblog.)

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/neo-nazis-join-islamists-at-al-quds-day-demonstration-in-berlin/

Mike

The single most compelling reason for racial divides in Britain today has not been caused by the EDL or even the BNP but by John Denhams government and their obsession with multiculturism. Their discriminatory and one sided application of benefits & law and order infavour of Islamic groups has created this divide and has been used as fuel for fascist elements in the country. Even more so, some Labour policies are themselves fascist in nature although the liberal left wouldn't admit it. The behaviour of many Labour sponsored quangos in search of that elusive world of harmony, have gone out of their way to target any detractors of their twisted agendas by denying honest debate and calling all opposition racist. Britain had come a long way from the days of Enoc Powells rivers of blood and instead of letting natural evolution integrate different groups, Denhams bunch of idiots in power have forced the issue and have turned the clock back 40 years on racial integration. He is partially right on one thing even though he doesn't know it that the racial divide is predominantly between hard line Islamication and the rest of the population rather than white vs coloured. Most ethnic (non Muslim) groups from the Indian sub continent are vehemently racist against Muslims to an extent many whites don't understand or even believe in themselves. The reasons which Labour won't acknowlege is that every ethnic group with the exception of Muslims have integrated into Britain, observe both British and their own customs and obey the laws of the land. Bringing in Sharia law alongside UK law has divided the country and its no surprise that Muslims stand out as an isolated group amongst many others in Britain. Labour has enabled the extremists in UK Muslims to beat their drums and this has brought racism back to the table of politics once again. John Denham should take time out to look inwards at his own fascist party members rather than blaming others for the state of race relations in Britain today.

Dixon

"Ann
September 12th, 2009 7:39pm

Verity, as usual, talks through the back of her neck. There is no such thing as a 'race'. The Jews are not a 'race', they are an ethnicity, a nation.
Oh, and so are the Sikhs. Ever heard of them, babe?"

Pot calling the kettle an idiot by the looks of things. An "ethnicity" is not the same as a "nation" or else Britain would comprise hundreds of countries rather than four! And Sikh is a religion not an "ethnicity" or a "nation": there are white Sikhs and even if you in your confused mind are referring to the tendency for Sikhs to have originated in the Punjab the people of that area can just as easily be Muslim.

I think you should leave Verity to it if you dont want to make us laugh in your addle-headed attempts at berating HER reasoning.

As for "theres no such thing as race" it sounds like Ann has just done the same ridiculous Open University course that I have!

Span Ows

a semite!Jez, now I've got the proof of your silliness guys. not all muslims are semites and not all semites are muslims, proof again that you're not educated much.

I don't think anyone has said this have they?...it's what you would call a strawman argument. You set it up to then - cleverly - knock it down.

Re Chaudary et al not forming a majority...eh? So what? You mean we shouldn't expect problems until the problem makers are 50.0001% of the population?

Jez

Hi 'a Semite',

Yes, your right. I am uneducated. I left school when i was fifteen. And i got a job. You should try it.

Unfortunately to counter your prejudice- through that same word; 'work' i have a car the size of a tennis court that says 'hello' to me when i get in it (vroom vroom!), a four storey renovated Victorian town house with a cinema room (very posh!) and hold a senior position within a many millions of pounds turn over company (oh, happy days!).

Is that ok?

I actually said in the post (i think your referring to); "Today the UK Islamafascist's are the anti-semites."

Meaning (drum roll); The Islamafascists hate the Jewish people.

And this is why i think this;

I've met quite a few Israeli's in my travels and they were sound. Very tough lads. This was in different places and it was purely in a 'travelling' situation. I had great respect for two of them in particular, who at different times came out to fight their corner spectacularly. Another bloke i worked with on a building site was from Tel Aviv- for a little prospective time wise, this was at the same time the Muslim community in Bradford worked together closely and burnt down the city in 2001. I shared a house with two half Jewish brothers from London for while who were Gooners. They were top lads (shame about who they supported though). And to finish it all off, one of my best friend's father was saved by a Jewish couple just after World War ll.

Now i think of that lot when i hear anti-semetic... sorry, i forgot.... anti-Jewish prejudice/remarks etc.

These from anyone.

So. I read everything i could lay my hands on regarding this subject. Thanks to the Internet you can do this. After a while it is quite depressing.

Here's the conclusions; At varying times in history, many people have opportunistically manipulated situations to use the Jewish population as a scapegoat to secure their positions, wherever.

Some secular Jews have done some incredibly terrible things. Most have not- and Jewish communities through history have had the sh** end of the stick prodded at them for being proud/sustaining of their religion, identity and heritage.

Also- some non-Jews throughout history have done some incredibly terrible things. Most have not.

Same with journalist's, professionals, trades people etc. Both Jew or gentile, you'll find outright tossers.

I think the word we are looking for 'a semite', is 'balance'.

Where i'm from in the North means i tell this to people's faces though, which maybe isn't that good- for anyone... except me probably.

Where's is all this going?

Right. The core philosophy of Islam (as my opinion) is to eventually dominate the region it settles in. This through population explosion and a complete refusal to assimilate into the surrounding culture. There is a core belief that the Jewish Homeland of Israel is on stolen land and many influential organisations take that Elders of Zion book as being true. Hamas for instance has several parts of it's Charter (22 btw) that is pasted straight from this book. This (i personally think) would have been presented to the Mufti of Jerusalem etc by German National Socialists with the intention to introduce this into the Middle East region in the late 30's.

Any Muslim worth his salt will back up my accusation of institutional anti-semetism if you speak to him or her off camera, thinks your a 'jo shmo' nobody and he/she thinks you agree with them to start off with.

This is my opinion only;

What is happening to this country is a steadying Islamification. Bradford/Birmingham/East End/Burnley/Dewsbury etc is proof of this. The word 'vibrant' tossed about by the media is a lie. They think we are worthless trash and (again as an opinion by me only) that our girls are 'slags'.

There is absolutely no wish to assimilate to the host culture. When this place 'goes' (my opinion) then we've have had it- 20,000 years of one history 'taken out' in less than a hundred.

And that is what those EDL lads are out on the streets for shouting thier heads off, risking life, limb and (definately) liberty. This simply through having no political voice speaking for them, me, or the rest of the UK working class on the whole for the last 50 years.

That's where i'm coming from 'a semite'. And i (still) have a right to that opinion.

Verity

A Semite - no one said Islam hasn't been imposed by that ever-handy conquering sword on people other than Semites ... mostly poor, ignorant Africans. And also denizens of the Hindu Kush.

Later, across the Med on unsuspecting N Africans.

However, when it was a religion of the Saharan nomads, who were, by and large, at the time .... around a couple of thousand or more years ago ... Semites, it was confined to the Sarharan countries. (Islam grew out of moon worship. There wasn't a lot to do in the vast desert at night, year after year. It's not as though they could look forward to the Beatles or Elvis or Michael Jackson.) You had your roast ram's scrotum and crouched around and looked up at the moon, which was always looking down at you, and pondered. (Frankly, I feel the lack of vegetables did not serve their nerves well. Thank God for babaganoush!)

Ann - You come across as having a somewhat obsessive agenda. No offence. You've been away for quite some time, I note.

Mike writes: "Most ethnic (non Muslim) groups from the Indian sub continent are vehemently racist against Muslims to an extent many whites don't understand or even believe in themselves."

They're not racist, Mike. They are against Islam no matter what colour is practising it. You have to understand that the sub-Continent was Hindu for thousands of years - at least 5,000, which is a long time - and then the trouble-makers arrived from the ME. Calling the indigenes of India "non Muslim groups" is really insulting.

Make Mine A Beverage!

Span Ows - Just a wild guess, but did you write your post after a couple of bevvies?

A Semite!

I'll tell you one thing, I don't care about what u own because you'll never get what I got however one thing you should try make the difference between a jew and a zionist. Try it, it'll refresh your mind perhaps. muslims hate zionists not jews, and in fact in case u did not know muslims and jews have a lot in common, so if israel was a state that was abiding by the law of the torah u wouldnt bear it whatsoever, becoz actually u as a non jew u have no value to their eyes, u might not even get the status of a slave that would be too luxurious for u. if u lived in an islamic state ud have the right to be defended by the muslims themselves, anyhow.
u dont seen to know a lot about judaism, israel, islam and so on. then i personally dont believe that you guys only "stand up against militant islam" from ur look it's like ur against islam itself and the whole of the muslims, at least be clear about that dont try to play that game that others have played. and anyways if it was not the muslims, it would be the jews, why? becoz as a human u will always look for a problem urself. so this way u'd be insulting and demonising the jews living in the uk who own big houses, cars and so on, saying "why are they living better than us" yes yes it happens everywhere, even in france where they go against the arabs saying "why do they have more money than us french". saw it all.
and if there was one nation that should shoot people like u it should be the muslims who r seeing their land occupied, killed like rabits at every corner of the streets, seeing their kids being snatched away from them and sold out. u should go to these places it might give u another side of the story, also bear in mind that a lot of ppl around the world are sick of the uk/usa/israeli game, people allll around the globe, so if there are angry ppl we should see it should be them, not your kind that can't even geographically locate a middle eastern country for instance becoz ur govt has got u as a ring in their finger, playing up with u, and ur anger and the anger of others, good job, ur filling the agenda as a sheep, carry on we'll see where is that going to lead u all.
secondly is a sharia state was to be made it would be in their country not in the west for sure but again do u even think of that.
anyways i could not read your entire post. but thanx for replying anyways.

Jez

Hi 'a Semite',

"if u lived in an islamic state ud have the right to be defended by the muslims themselves, anyhow."

Really?

That's brilliant! I'll book the plane tickets now!

Me the wife and Kids, we'll go to Saudi Arabia or Baluchistan or even the Hindu Kush- and open a bar, or a bikini shop or a church. Then probably get 'defended' to death in about ten minutes. That'd be really great. Thanks.

"muslims hate zionists"

Don't we bloody know pal. About 2000 Al Qud marched through London yesterday telling us.

"so this way u'd be insulting and demonising the jews living in the uk who own big houses, cars and so on, saying "why are they living better than us" yes yes it happens everywhere.

I've told you 'a semite'- my house is lovely- and my car is lovely- and i'm lovely, so their no need to question whether people are better than me.

"even in france where they go against the arabs saying "why do they have more money than us french". saw it all."

Who? What you on about? Are you commenting on the massive rise in anti-Semitic attacks by parts of the Muslim population on Jews there? (thus causing a huge influx of new settlers to Israel. Big word here 'a semite'- * irony *)

"and if there was one nation that should shoot people like u it should be the muslims who r seeing their land occupied, killed like rabits at every corner of the streets, seeing their kids being snatched away from them and sold out. u should go to these places it might give u another side of the story, also bear in mind that a lot of ppl around the world are sick of the uk/usa/israeli game, "

That's the politics of Global liberalism 'a semite'- in the first two instances anyway... pushing blindly for their vision of borderless world trade where there is only one identity; the 'Global Citizen'.

Israel is fighting for it's existence in the third instance- and many in the driving seats of liberal power in the first two countries you mention, whether those positions of control are political or in the media, they really hate them for it.

"secondly is a sharia state was to be made it would be in their country not in the west for sure but again do u even think of that."

If i turn up at a rugby club on my own and bring a football, i'm not going to make everyone play football am i? Now if everyone *except* me turned up with a football and i had a rugby ball, then i'd quite probably (due to the laws of averages) have to end up playing footy.

When the Muslim population of this country hits 50%+ then they aren't going to be watching episodes of 'Songs of Praise' with Thora Hurd on a Sunday afternoon are they?

You guy's will want your own thing. Obviously.

And that thing, an Islamic state/or Islamic controlled enclaves, is incompatable with the values and culture of a Christian Great Britain that hundreds of thousands of British men & women fought (and died) for in two World Wars.

Thanks.

Alan Ackbah

'A Semite!' says:

"so if israel was a state that was abiding by the law of the torah u wouldnt bear it whatsoever, becoz actually u as a non jew u have no value to their eyes, u might not even get the status of a slave that would be too luxurious for u. if u lived in an islamic state ud have the right to be defended by the muslims themselves, anyhow."

That's like saying living under Sharia Law is better than being ruled by Satan and his minions: Judaistic or Christian Law doesn't rule countries like Islamic Law in any country the world over. In fact the only possible reason to include a comparison between how non-Jews would live under Jewish or Islamic Law is to vilify Judaism and the one Jewish country.

The very emphatic name 'A Semite!' as used by a Muslim is emblamatic of a new rationale that is spreading around various Islamic and Leftist circles - namely to claim that as some Muslims are, by their birth, Semitic, and as all Jews are Semitic, it is therefore morally permissable for Muslims to vilify and criticize up to and beyond the destruction of the Jewish State. Kind of like how it is permissable to criticize the Scottish or Welsh as they are "part of the club".

This same logic applies to a dismissal of charges of anti-semitism by rabid Islamic antisemites, as who is to disallow criticism of their own?

Unfortunately for the Jew-haters, "anti-Semitism" as a word has but one definition in English: "theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews."

The full guise of their deceit becomes apparant with such statements as:

"if there was one nation that should shoot people like u it should be the muslims who r seeing their land occupied, killed like rabits at every corner of the streets, seeing their kids being snatched away from them and sold out"

So at one turn, Jews are Semites just like them, worthy of equality and subject to all the criticism met against evildoers; and at the next, Jews are evil invaders who must be repelled at all costs.

I do say that rather smells fishy.

paul maleski

Lebensraum.
Alas,John Denham is 60 years too late. The issue of non/white Christian immigration, should have been dealt with, under the 1948/49 British Nationality Act. The indigenous people, should have been asked via a referendum: What sort of country did they want to live in? Tragically, this was not done; today, the UK and much of Western Europe are left to pick up the pieces of a grotesque Boasnian multi-cultural experiment. Hitherto, utopian melting pot Zangwillian devotees, are now frantically shutting the stable doors, after the mules have bolted. For the real war is not being fought on the streets, by the EDL and the Trotskyite ANL but in European maternity wards.
For European civilization to survive, it has only one realistic course of action: Drang nach Osten, a peaceful drive to the East, towards a white Christian {minaret free} Lebensraum.