Tories cock-a-hoop about Lib Dem disarray

Hysteria

economics taking a bartering ...???

Norman Dee

There is a simpler answer to the question of student support, the problem is being caused by the sheer numbers of people going to University, and yet we are still desperate for the more highly qualified graduates, I suggest that those areas which are desperate for graduates give free tuition, and those who think the world is ready for another media studies 2:2 graduate can pay for the privelige themselves, or at least borrow the money as they can now.

Paul Williams

...personally I think the case for tuition fees is fairly straight forward, students will benefit from their university education...

Says who? I had a university degree and not only did it land me in thousands of pounds of debt, thus preventing me from getting on the housing ladder, but having a degree actively hindered me from getting a job -'you're overqualified' is the phrase I heard over and over again.

Given the chance again, would I go to Uni; no way!

Colin

The tories have no chance in Richmond, sadly...

Wrong candidate. A real blunder by tory HQ. With right on Susan "sixth form" Kramer as sitting MP, and a rabidly anti resident, useless lib dem council, the seat is there for the taking.

However, the last thing we need is a champagne swampy character, with too much inherited money and a predilection for telling us off for owning cars and the like.

Laughing Gravy

As a former academic and university administrator, I wish to add a comment about fairness that has not been made previously. For many years it has been policy that overseas students pay full cost fees. I think this was introduced by Shirley Williams. Now, home and EU students pay a government set fee and the government provides a grant to universities for teaching such students. The unit of teaching resource thus generated does not, however (and never has), equal the fee paid by full cost students from abroad. Is it fair that poor students from abroad should subsidise rich students from the UK and EU? Incidentally, the cross funding of various university activities is a scandal - why should funding provided for teaching french be diverted to fund research in chemistry? I can assure you it is.
The only solution is for all students to pay full cost fee (the government can subsidise individuals if it wishes), and for all university internal accounts to be made public so that we know where the money is going.

chris as usual

To repeat - the Liberals should be attacking Labour after 12 years of total disaster - by not doing this they make themselves unworthy of consideration.

Personal attacks on Tories because that have been to Eton are entirely counterproductive.

The electorate will decide, and the aren't that stupid.

jon dee

Clegg's juvenile smears of David Cameron have done nothing for his reputation and credibility and he has a lot of catching-up to do.

All this after swotting-up the value of the State Pension.

Colin

is this working?

Colin

nope...

Cole

Or can the Tories win Richmond? Seems that Goldsmith has spent £250,000 so far (see Electoral Commission website). presumably more to come?

strapworld

I think it rather rich that politicians that had a University education for free should now ensure that students start working life-IF they can get a job!-in serious debt.

One comment made was that students get a better job. BUT surely we should look at the positive that University Students obtaining degrees help the country, surely!

We should do our best to ensure that University is free for our home bred students.

Boudicca

Living where I do in a village on the edge of the Surrey Hills, a fairly large percentage of houses are worth £million+ - but they don't have to be particularly grand to do so.

My local Parish councillor is a LibDem - Guildford Council recently ditched the LibDems in favour of a Tory Council. This is the kind of area the LibDems should be courting - but you don't do that by threatening to charge a tax levy against properties which middle-ranking executive levels aspire to.

£million+ houses in many parts of the country may qualify as mansions. In much of the SE they are just nice, detached 5 bedroom houses with an in and out driveway.

Hysteria

@Laughing Gravy "Is it fair that poor students from abroad should subsidise rich students from the UK and EU?"

Interesting question. What would not be fair is taxpayers money funding anyone other than UK nationals.

John Page

Are university tuition fees a good way to spend money? A specialist interviewed on WATO the other day said Yes, a far lower proportion of children from poorer families go to university than from middle class families. BUT compare the two groups when they have good A level results, and the disparity vanishes. So put any extra (ha!) money into improving education in schools.

Any Colour but Brown

"chris as usual
To repeat - the Liberals should be attacking Labour after 12 years of total disaster - by not doing this they make themselves unworthy of consideration."

Does this, then, mean that the LibDems support the "achievements" of Labour over the last 12 years? If so, it put them in the same political wilderness that Labour belongs in.

EC

Boudicca,

Surrey is full of airheaded women driving 4x4s extemely badly. Any deficieny they may have had drivng and parking a normal cars is magnified tenfold with 4x4s.

At the weekends Surrey males are little better. They drive these deadly machines far too aggressively and far too fast.

Their should be an additional driving test for anybody wishing to drive a 4x4. Also a really massive increase in Vehicle Excise Duty.

Tax the buggers off the road!

Stephen

I live in a City where the local Poly was "converted" into a Uni. Some of it is good some bad. Sorry to sound elitist but I so agree with the posting that Govt fee support should be given to courses where there is a real job need and "Pot Hunters" seeking a 2.2 in say Media Studies should not be equally supported by Govt fee schemes. University education should be about the pusuit of excellence not POt Hunting

EC

There there!

Laughing Gravy

@ Hysteria. I agree with your point. The solution is for all universities to charge full cost fees to all students (and they might differ between universities and between subjects within universities). Then individual students can be given government grants and/or loans to cover all or part of the fee. Public policy can be expressed by the degree to which students are assisted. For example, if more chinese language students are to be encouraged, then the fee support for those courses can be increased.

Paul B

I see nothing unfair in foreign students, be they from rich countries or poor countries, paying large fees that subsidise students from this country. In fact I believe its a good idea. The foreign student always has the choice not to come here. We could try to do the same with the NHS.

Paul B

The proposal to let the government decide which courses it would pay for and which it would not pay for, is extremely dangerous. Lots of room for political manoeuvring there. Cherry picking the courses which it believes are right for the for the country and which are not. It would open up a can of worms. For example ,take the ongoing & current debate into green sustainable energy/man made global warming. A government could decide that global warming exists-deniers are flat earthers-and as a result cut off all funding to departments led by sceptics to that belief. Not beyond the imagination is it?

Grants would be a new weapon to assault the individual with keeping us docile and toeing the line, herding the population into the officially sanctioned viewpoint/sheep pen. Sweeties darlings.

The solution is simple. Adopt a market approach. Whatever the cost of the course, the student pays, (hopefully with foreign students paying a premium to reduce cost to home students) The student can then take a loan (or not) from me -the taxpayer- and pay it back at an agreed rate. Get the state out of universities, it can be done and it is desirable. Make universities compete. At present I can see no incentive for them to try to reduce costs. Subject the universities to market discipline and privatise them, raise money for HMG, which can be set aside as an endowment from which future student loans can be taken, although this will need topping up.

I do not see a right to a university education, which the rest of society has to pay for.

Polly Gamma

Oh come on Boudicca - don't act daft. You know as well as everyone else does that there's plenty of folks who think a 5 bed with an in and out driveway is a mansion. Or did you just wan't to hear someone say it again?

DM

The mansion tax is retrospective, not based on earnings or geography, reeks of envy and uses class war as a weapon. It's disgusting. Why mansion tax, why not two home tax, boat tax, holidays three times a year tax, 4 x 4 tax, two car home tax - anything? The whole thing is illogical and arbitrary. It's all about status symbols. What anyone has already spent their money on is theirs. It should not be taxed after the event. (Council tax is for ongoing council services). Most people can't afford fancy luxuries or one million pound homes. But many would like to work and save hard for them. Why hammer their aspirations or personal choice with THEIR money?

Polly Gamma

EC does one qualify as an air head if they use 'their' incorrectly, and instead of 'there'?

EC

Dear Surrey wife,

Most definitely! However in my case the condition is only temporary. It is cured by the first pot of black coffee. Unlike your driving.

Polly Gamma

Best not to let your 'temporary' condition affect you when you are posting on blogs unless you are a bit of an air head.

EC

Polly(sic) Gamma,

Nice try. I'll give you another one for that.

THX1138

Boudicca I grew up in Guildford, couldn't wait to get out, in my day that awful snob David Howell was MP (we all thought he was gay). Boy George married his daughter Frances who writes turgid novels about upper class shagging and has inherited her fathers distaste for the lower orders from accounts that reach my ears.

As for 5 bed executive homes costing a £million plus in boring old Surrey in my part of norf LDN you be lucky to get a two, two down terrace with on street parking for that.

Frances