Brown's speech: live blog
Peter Hoskin 2:04pm1404, PH: We'll be live-blogging Brown's conference speech from 1415 onwards. In the meantime, CoffeeHousers, your thoughts on how our PM will kick things off. Last year, of course, he got Sarah Brown to introduce him. Will he repeat the trick this year? Or will he get someone else? Mandelson, perhaps? Or someone off X-Factor? Or will it be nothing flash, just Gordon? Your predictions, please...
1405, PH: Brother Massie is also live-blogging the speech here.
1410, PH: Oh, and you can watch the speech here.
1416, PH: So what will Brown actually say? Well, his announcements on anti-social behaviour and childcare have been heavily trailed. Apart from that, we can expect some clarification of the dividing line on public spending, as well as some talk about cleaning up politics.
1421, JF: Walking through the conference corridors to the press centre there really isn’t that much of a buzz. This has been a fairly low-key conference and there is surprisingly little anticipation of the leader’s speech, unlike last year people don’t see it as do or die for Brown.
1422, PH: This is as good a time as any to remind you of the Brown Bingo card that a CoffeeHouser put together. Oversized marker-pens at the ready...
1424, JF: The news that Brown is going to back a recall option is a sign that he is casting around for eye-catching reform initiatives he can be associated with. Suspending ID cards denies the Tories an easy answer to where they would find savings, but one wonders what took Labour so long.
1424, PH: They're showing a senitmental history of the Labour Party. Much applause for Nye Bevan, the NHS, SureStart, the minimum wage etc. This is clearly a Labour crowd-pleaser, but will it make any difference outside the conference hall?
1425, PH: The video mentions JK Rowling. One of the "fighters"...
1426, PH: Oh dear me. They've got Sarah Brown to introduce her husband again.
1427, PH: This is shameless. "Gordon and me have been married for 9 years now, we've had some tough times..."
1428, PH: Sarah Brown: "I know that he loves our country."
1429, PH: Sarah Brown is rattling off the superlatvies. Apparently, Gordon is "gentle", "kind" and "caring".
1431, JF: She’s less nervous, more polished than she was last year. “I know he loves our country, I know he will always put you first” is the line.
1432, PH: Now it's a video stuffed designed to sell Brown to the public. Bono is one of the talking heads.
1434, JF: How many shots of Brown and Obama together can they get in?
1434, PH: Sarah Brown introduces "my husband, my hero ... Gordon Brown".
1435, FN: No surprise to see Sarah Brown – probably the smartest person in No10 right now. This time, she should just give the whole speech. Introducing some of the “other people who know Gordon well” - Stern? That bloked he hired then ennobled? Stiglitz? She says he husband is noisy and messy – yes, Sarah, and he has been known to trash the odd economy. She is excellent and speaking human, but that a Prime Ministers need an ambassadors to humans shows just what dire straits he is in. Now follows a cheap trick by Labour to put on a party political video, to try and fool the broadcasters into showing them. The BBC, at least, is wise to it. This video technique is used a lot in America. Utterly fails here if the broadcasters cut away from it.
1436, PH: Brown kicks off: "It is the fighters, not the quitters, who change the world"
1436, PH: He's already said "fight" a half-dozen times. "Big choices" has also cropped up.
1437, PH: Brown rattles off Labour achievements: SureStart, minimum wage, NHS etc. To be fair, it gets him a massive cheer.
1437, PH: Brown thanks his "constant friend" Harriet Harman. Ahem.
1438, PH: Now Brown is thanking Darling.
1439, PH: OH dear, he's regurgitating jokes: "People ask me what's happening to the special relationship. And I say Peter and I are getting on just fine." He used that one a few days ago...
1440, PH: There's "big choices" again.
1441, FN: “We’ve changed the world before, and we’ll change the world again” says Brown. Yes, because so ill-regulated were British banks that their bad debts literally spread across the planet. Lists what he has “achieved” since 1997. “Devol-you-shon” his voice is quaking a little. “Cancelling of debt, trebling of aid...”
Oooh, he smiles... joke coming. Memo to self: hold sides, unless they split...
1441, PH: Twice, now, Brown has said that his policies have helped the "hard-working majority, not the privleged few". This is going to be one of his central dividing lines...
1442, PH: He's said "hard-working majority" three times now...
1443, PH: Hm. Brown says the "Global New Deal" will save "15 million jobs". And how can we check that, exactly?
1444, PH: Now Brown's moved into the "do nothing Tories" part of the speech, saying that Cameron & Co. called the recession wrong.
1445, JF: Just leafing through the text, this is going to be a very aggressive speech. Fight is definitely the word of the day.
1445, PH: Now Brown is harkening back to the "lost generation" of the 1980s.
1446, PH: Brown: "It is Labour that is the party of British industry and enterprise". The corporation tax levels may say differently...
1447, PH: Brown is saying that the financial crisis was brought about by "right-wing fundamentalism". Erm, does anyone else spot the problem with that...
1448, FN: “not one British saver has lost a single penny” he says. But the British taxpayer has lost some £350,000,000,000 via the increase in net debt. Is it rude to point this out? Brown is very lucky that the Tories have not managed to drive home the real cost of the crash.
“Half a million jobs saved” - this is a lie, and one documented here.
“Half a million children lifted out of poverty”. Am pretty sure this is another lie – I’ll get back to you with the figures.
Then he talks about jobs created under Labour. In the private sector, all net job creation is accounted for by immigration.
Returning to his false dichotomy. Only the Tories thought they should “do nothing”... “The Tories were faced with the economic call of the century, and they called it wrong”. Another lie: the Tories supported the bailout. Brown’s lies really are coming thick and fast.
He’s choking on his words. Says “mainstream minority, em majority”.
1449, JF: Brown is ripping into the Tories and it is clear he really does detest them. It'll be intriguing to see how this plays outside the hall.
1450, PH: Now Brown's listing what he calls the "squeezed middle classes": the nurses on the ward, the builders on the site etc.
1451, JF: As Brown rails against bankers does he remember who decided their regulatory structure, who used to laud them at dinners and who was so keen to recruit them into his circle?
1451, PH: Like last year, Brown refers to his eyesight when praising the NHS.
1452, PH: A clumsy bit of triangulation: "Yes, too much government can leave people powerless. But too much government indifference can leave people powerless too." The "third way" sounded so much more convincing when Blair talked about it...
1453, PH: Here's a question Brown might regret asking: "The question is not whether to change, but how?" Any ideas, CoffeeHousers?
1455, FN: Back to his “ordinary” family and his “free” education. “My parents could not easily afford to put me and my brothers” - he means ‘my brothers and I’ - “through feepaying schools.” No, Brown went to an academically selective education where he had more attention lavished on him than even David Cameron at Eton. Its sickening, in a way, to hear him go on about this. To pretend he was a local kid in a comp. There are, of course, no limits to his stretching the truth.
1456, PH: While Brown is saying that the banks will pay back the people, he's also praising the industrial and manufacturing sectors - he's even setting up a fund for small manufacturing firms. Quite a change from a few years ago, when he used to hail our "world-beating" banks.
1456, JF: Brown’s delivery here is better than it has been in a while. There might not be much substance but there is passion.
1457, PH: Here's some public spending dividing line stuff: "We will not reduce investment in schools. We will invest more." I wonder how that lines up with Ed Balls's claim to be cutting the schools budget?
1458, FN: The banks will pay back the people, he says. Again, a lie. The IMF estinates that, when all is done and dusted, the banks will have taken £130 billion more than they will give back – we’ll never see that money again. Details here.
1459, PH: Now Brown's into the public finance stuff proper. He says that there will have to be "tough decisions" made about tax and spending.
1500, PH: Brown says that the Tories would "cut frontline services". His deficit reduction plan sounds awfully thin: 50p tax, cutting waste, realistic wage deals etc. Yet Brown claims Labour will halve the deficit in the next few years. Hm.
1502, JF: The speech is losing energy now.
1503, PH: Brown says that he feels "privileged" to have Neil Kinnock in the audience. The camera cuts to Kinnock and you can't help but be reminded of 1992 and all that.
1504, PH: Brown thanks Blair for introducing the national minimum wage.
1505, PH: There's the chidcare pledge.
1506, FN: “Britain started this recession with the second lowest debt of any G7 economy” he says. Yes, and in 1997 it had the lowest debt. Debt will increase faster than in Britain faster than ANY economy in the G7 – this is his failure. Hell, here’s a graph showing it:
1506, PH: It seems Brown is trying to catch up with the Tories' Broken Britain agenda. He says his government will not shy away from "social problems," before going on to mention family breakdown and antisocial behaviour.
1508, JF: It’ll be fascinating to see how the cultural left reacts to the idea of supervised homes for 16 and 17 year old mums. I expect Brown would quite like a fight.
1508, PH: Brown: "Whenever and wherever there is antisocial behaviour, we will be there to fight it." He goes on to say that communities will be able to ban 24-hour drinking.
1510, PH: Apparently, neighbourhood police "action squads" will "crack down" on antisocial behaviour.
1511, PH: And there's the U-turn over ID turns. "In the next Parliament, there will be no compulsory ID cards for British nationals." It gets the biggest round of applause since the beginning of the speech.
1512, PH: Brown says he want to "finish" the peace process which Tony Blair "started": complete devolution to Northern Irish police forces.
1513. PH: Brown calls on the audience to "pay tribute" to British armed forces. There's a lengthy ovation.
1513, PH: There'll be a lot of people doubting Brown's pledge that "the forces will have all the equipment they need".
1515, PH: Wow, it's taken Brown this long to first mention Barack Obama.
1516, PH: Strange. Brown is going to "pass legislation" which would mean the British government is obliged to increase overseas aid spending to 0.7 percent of GDP.
1517, PH: Brown refers back to the #welovetheNHS Twitter debate of the summer. He says to the audience: "You fought to save the NHS."
1519, JF: Brown is indulging in some health jingoism. The healthcare debate in this country is so simplistic it is infuritating.
1520, PH: Here are Brown's cancer care pledges. I fear he may be overreaching when he says that he wants to "beat cancer in this generation".
1521, FN: Afghanistan has very little to do about “terrorism in Britain’s streets” - shows how little understanding Brown has of the war that he even uses this as a reason to fight the campaign.
Another new law “obliging” a British governmnet to spend 0.7% of GDP on aid (Brown’s approach, latterly, was to shrink the economy until it hits this target). Doesn’t he realise how desperate this tooks, this “tying the hands of the tories” tactic? Why would he need to pass a law? How about putting it in a manifesto and letting the public decide? Answer: because he’s worked out how terrified the Tories are of revoking bad Labour laws that could mean bad headlines. The 50p tax – a stupidity test for the Tories as it will lose money – has encouraged Brown as they will be too scared to revoke what they know is a bad, revenue-losing idea unless they are called names by the press. Brown is rightly playing on the lack of intellectual self-confidence that the Tories still have. For as long as they dare not revoke bad Labour laws, he can go on making new ones.
1522, PH: I've lost count of how many times Brown has said "hard-working majority".
1522, PH: Now Brown is pledging free personal care for the elderly - not just for the "privileged few, who can afford to pay, but for the hardworking majority".
1523, PH: Now we're onto the cleaning up politics section of the speech...
1524, PH: Brown: "We should be in Parliament for what we can give." He mentions the recall mechanism.
1525, PH: There's the big electoral reform announcement. Brown says that the Labour manifesto will have a commtiment to a referendum on the alternative voting system in "the next Parliament". Shame they probably won't have a chance to enact it.
1526, JF: The Tory attack section is coming up now. He'll try and attack the Tories as austere, pessimists and depict Labour as pro-growth opitmists.
1527, PH: Brown says the financial crisis showed that the Tories "have no hearts".
1527, PH: Brown is being extremely disingenuous, saying that the Tories' "first priority" is the IHT cut "for the privileged few".
1528, PH: He just can't resist the old invesment vs cuts dividing line, can he? Brown says that the Tories would cut the Home Office budget by the equivalent of "3,000 police men and women". I'm sure anyone could go through Brown's cuts and put them in emotive terms too...
1530, JF: Brown says Labour will have a manifesto commitment to a referendum on AV early in the next parliament. So, Alan Johnson's proposal for a refrendum on election day has been rebuffed.
1531, PH: Brown says he is "the guy who won't take 'no' for an answer".
1532, PH: Now he's paraphrasing Goethe: "Dream not small dreams..."
1533, FN: Maybe you think it’s because I’m the guy who doesn’t take ‘no’ as an answer” he says now. More like a guy who doesn’t take “go” as an order. “Think big and then fight hard,” he says. “Since 1997, Labour has given this country back its future” - a strange way to describe the doubling of national debt and a net reduction in the number of (non-immigrant) workers in the private sector with a million Brits on benefits throughout that period. Can someone please take him off now? Does no one have one of those stage hooks to grab him?
1533, PH: Brown's winding down now. His closing message: "Never stop believing ... Because the task is difficult, the triumph will be even greater."
1534, PH: "Our guiding duty is to stand, to fight, to win and to serve!" And that's it. Broww gets what seems like quite a healthy ovation. But you suspect their hearts aren't really in it...
1537, PH: Well, I suppose that went as well as Brown could expect it to. He got off to a fiery start, but the whole thing soon started sagging. Enough to satisfy the conference delegates for today, but not enough to sway hearts and minds outside of the conference hall. I imagine many swing voters will be asking: where's the vision? And they'll be hard-pressed to find any.
1539, JF: My initial reaction to the speech is competent but not a game changer. It pleased the delegates but as with so much of this conference I'm not so sure how it will play outside the hall. The challenge for Cameron now is to make the positive case for a Tory government.
Previous
Tiberius
September 29th, 2009 2:12pm Report this commentThe keystone cops.
No, seriously, it will be Dobby the house-elf.
Steve
September 29th, 2009 2:13pm Report this commentWho's that shrill old bat Rimmer? LOL
sinosimon
September 29th, 2009 2:16pm Report this commentintro by the ghost of Christmas future? Could be his only hope.....although of course Scrooge decided to be more open handed with his own money.....
Racia
September 29th, 2009 2:33pm Report this commentOne word - pathetic!
Max
September 29th, 2009 2:33pm Report this commentSarah Brown on stage. God it was toe curling, he's so loving and caring. Please spare us. So glad Brown is not using his family as a prop
golfwidow
September 29th, 2009 2:36pm Report this commentPass the sick bucket please.
Steve
September 29th, 2009 2:49pm Report this commentAbsolutely unbelievable hypocrisy from Brown. He's a shocking liar.
Nick
September 29th, 2009 2:59pm Report this commentWell done Fraser for calling Brown's mistruths exactly what they are "lies" and not Brownies.
Bean counter
September 29th, 2009 3:03pm Report this commentSo I'm the son of a council worker who went to the local comp, but am now fortunate enough to earn £100k a year.
Am I in the 'hardworking majority?' Not by Gordon's definition (high earners cannot, by definition, work hard).
Am I privileged (as opposed to diligent or just lucky)? Nope.
So where does that leave me? I'm confused.
Sunlit Uplands
September 29th, 2009 3:04pm Report this comment"A quarter of a million new, green British jobs". What on earth can that possible mean? Just jibberish. Total and utter bollocks. 3 buzz words thrown together in a sentence and a big number added. Dear Lord. I really hope someone enquires as to the detail of that one..
Christopher Bowring
September 29th, 2009 3:04pm Report this comment1455 No, FN. Brown's grammar is correct; yours is wrong.
TrevorsDen
September 29th, 2009 3:05pm Report this comment'15' million - that was where the dart hit the board.
And as someone says - its good to see he does not use his family as a prop. But Sarah becoming blatantly political makes her a legitimate target.
Its clear that she will be pushed around like a bullet proof shield in front of brown during the election - and I foresee Mandy as part of the double act as well, fending off any questions with a quick blue suede shoe shuffle.
All so predictable, last time it was Brown propping up Blair.
Andrew K
September 29th, 2009 3:05pm Report this commentFraser, much though it pains me to say it,in this contextGB was right to use "me" rather than "I"; if it were Latin, it would be in the accusative case.
He's wrong everywhere else though!
Talia
September 29th, 2009 3:06pm Report this commentFraser, "me and my brothers" is correct: they are the object of the verb. You wouldn't say "they put I through school".
How I hate to defend him.
Dave
September 29th, 2009 3:06pm Report this commentSo Sarah Brown says that her husband "loves his country". That will be Scotland then.
SJH
September 29th, 2009 3:07pm Report this commentBrown's castigation of the markets: is he having another sly shot at one of the young pup leadership pretenders? See Ed Balls' speech on 13 Sept 2006 to the HK Chamber of Commerce:
“In my first speech as City Minister at Bloomberg in London, I argued that London’s success has been based on three great strengths – the skills, expertise and flexibility of the workforce; a clear commitment to global, open and competitive markets; and light-touch principle-based regulation.
“Far from weakening London’s standing, global financial integration and the emergence of new economic powers and regional financial centres have all strengthened the importance of London as the best partner for financial centres round the world.
I am determined to keep it that way.
We also know that globalisation and the rapid pace of change means that these trends would reverse very fast if we get things wrong."
cityboozer
September 29th, 2009 3:07pm Report this comment"he means ‘my brothers and I’"
No he doesn't, Fraser. If it wouldn't be "I" without the "and" it isn't "I" with the "and" either.
Michael
September 29th, 2009 3:09pm Report this comment1455, FN: Back to his “ordinary” family and his “free” education. “My parents could not easily afford to put me and my brothers” - he means ‘my brothers and I’ - “through feepaying schools.”
Wrong. 'Me and my brothers' is correct. Don't be a smartass.
Oliver Cromwell
September 29th, 2009 3:10pm Report this commentOh please not another 5 years of these gangsters!
They have trashed the public sector, smashed morale, and inspected everything to death.
Paul Williams
September 29th, 2009 3:11pm Report this commentLove the supervised homes for teenage mothers. I can see the headlines now:
Slammers for slappers
or
Slag Gulags
Neil
September 29th, 2009 3:11pm Report this comment"Whenever and wherever there is antisocial behaviour, we will be there to fight it."
A new role for John Prescott's right hook perhaps?
Nicholas Hallam
September 29th, 2009 3:14pm Report this commentSurely, "my brothers and me" FN ?
simon s
September 29th, 2009 3:15pm Report this commentSarah Brown comes across as a smug bobo. "My husband has a great job with a great pension - and I can go to Glastonbury and show how wonderfully progressive I am. You - well you get to work in the private sector and subsidize my virtue".
Andrew Savage
September 29th, 2009 3:16pm Report this commentThere shouldn't be ID cards for anyone. What happened to every person being equal before the law?
Besides, there's no useful savings if you're not abolishing the database entirely.
Johan Collet
September 29th, 2009 3:19pm Report this comment"1516, PH: Strange. Brown is going to "pass legislation" which would mean the British government is obliged to increase overseas aid spending to 0.7 percent of GDP."
Is that legally possible? Surely then he would like to pass legislation on other parts of the budget? minimum 20% on the NHS, perhaps?
what a crock of shit.
Alex Creel
September 29th, 2009 3:20pm Report this commentNow I've heard it all - Gordon's going to cure cancer..the tears are streaming - started as laughter...now I'm not so sure...
Martyn Rowe
September 29th, 2009 3:24pm Report this commentI've switched over to the cricket... I can't take any more bullshit...
Senor Frizby
September 29th, 2009 3:26pm Report this commentSwitched off - what a load of nonsense. The press say (again) that this is the most important speech of his career - he plans it - revises it - choreographs it - hones his props (wife!) - pays for a surgery smile - AND IT IS STILL RUBBISH!
Call an election you evil drone!
Private Schultz
September 29th, 2009 3:26pm Report this commentEven President Bartlett decided that a promise to "beat cancer in this generation" was a step too far!
Stevie
September 29th, 2009 3:33pm Report this commenthe means ‘my brothers and I’
No he doesn't - he knows his grammar.
Dean
September 29th, 2009 3:34pm Report this commentBritish banks were not "so ill-regulated" that their debts spread across the planet. They were ill-regulated because of the prevailing philosophy (zealously endorsed by the Spectator) that markets are inherently self-disciplining. And the crisis started in America under a Republican presidency which you also admired. Comments like these highlight the distance you need to travel before you will even begin to understand the origins and consequences of the credit crisis.
Pip
September 29th, 2009 3:36pm Report this commentWell - speech has just finished. I think his last sentence was "we stand and we fight to win and to swerve". Nothing changes.
Philip Walker
September 29th, 2009 3:39pm Report this commentIf you guys are going to be sarcastic about our glorious leader's grammar (and his wife's), you might at least get it right. "My parents put me and my brothers thorugh school" is perfectly good grammar; "my brothers and I" would be incorrect. Moreover, "kind" and "caring" aren't superlatives, they are mere adjectives. "Kindest" and "most caring" would be the superlatives.
Johan Collet
September 29th, 2009 3:39pm Report this commentAs the M People so aptly sang at the end of his speech:
"You done me wrong
Your time is up
You took a sip (just a sip)
From the devil's cup
You broke my heart
There's no way back
Move right out of here, baby
Go and pack your bags
Just who do you think you are
Stop acting like some kind of star
Just who do you think you are."
Jane Holmes
September 29th, 2009 3:41pm Report this commentUtterly vomit-making. Who are all these morons clapping and dancing at the end? Are they simple or something?
RMH
September 29th, 2009 3:41pm Report this commentIt was a turgid speech, totally bereft of class or quality.
It was a BBC3 speech, full of repeats from better years.
Paul B
September 29th, 2009 3:42pm Report this commentSLUT HUTS
Jane Holmes
September 29th, 2009 3:44pm Report this commentWhat is the point in a referendum on electoral reform when we are denied a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty? Wish I hadn't watched the speech, my blood is boiling!
DB
September 29th, 2009 3:52pm Report this comment@RMH: No this was a BBC 4 speech, reheating old stuff.
BBC 3 is younger and shoutier c.f. Clegg last week...
Ed101
September 29th, 2009 3:55pm Report this commenterr...Dean better than Cable who still thinks the short sellers where responsible for the banking crisis.
Billericay Dave
September 29th, 2009 3:56pm Report this commentVote on AV but no vote on EU what a T***
PayDirt
September 29th, 2009 3:57pm Report this commentDean : i seem to remember the Northern Rock crash came first
In2minds
September 29th, 2009 3:57pm Report this commentBrown wants to 'fight' the yobs, but then so do they!
Liz Brown
September 29th, 2009 4:04pm Report this commentReading this made me thoroughly glad I didn't watch it. The only thing that struck me (in the above reporting) was the promise of a Referendum on PR - would that be the same type of Referendum that was promised on the Lisbon Con/Treaty or another type of Referendum? James, Fraser and Peter, I hope you enjoy a well earned stiff drink having sat through that drivel
Anan
September 29th, 2009 4:06pm Report this commentI'll leave a comment on this story just for the fact that it marks the end of the Labourites.
This speech was a joke.
There, now I can come back in a few years or even decades and find this comment (unless shoddy journalism on the part of Fraser has led to the collapse of the Spectator! - pretty likely methinks).
:)
Prodicus
September 29th, 2009 4:13pm Report this commentBreathtakingly irresponsible from start to finish - lies included.
Brown no longer cares: time will run out before he has to deliver all this risibly unaffordable cobblers.
It's down to gutter-political shit-or-bust, now, the sole objective to rebuild the Daily Mirror vote (the Sun being lost) with Campbell and Maguire doing the heavy lifting.
'... and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss...'
BenM
September 29th, 2009 4:14pm Report this commentThatks for the graph, Nelson.
It shows that Britain has only now caught up with other comparable economies in terms of the size of our national debt.
No need for spending cuts then, is there?
And "fastest growing" levels of debt??!! Who cares what the spedd is, Mr Nelson! Thing is, your graph strangles seething Tory desires to cut much needed government spending.
As I say, well done sir!
Cuffleyburgers
September 29th, 2009 4:14pm Report this commentI think Dean old bean, that you will find that the roots of the problem lie partly in the shockingly badly regulated mortgage giants in the states Fannie mae etc, which were set up with the best socialistic motives of ensuring loans to people with bad credit histories, but had grown totally out of control and were crowding out more market regulated private lenders (because they were govt. backed they had lower finance costs). Failures of regualtion ensured that banks' capital levels were inappropriately low, and this was exacerbated by poor policies from central banks both the Fed and the Bank failed to look like removing the punchbowl at an opportune moment.
I would add to this that if banks as a whole get so big that they are too big to fail the there is a legitimate role for govt to say "right seeing as how we will likely end up as the stepper-inner of last resort, you are too big, you will lose your banking licence unless you spin off this subsidaiary, or improve your capital ratios" and so on. the govt failed to do this and under browns crap structure the few warining messages that did come eg. from the IMF were able to be safely ignored.
The fact that bankers' bonuses effectively privatised profit and nationalised loss (once the banks were too big to fail) was ignored by the shareholders and the government, so yes some of the blame should surely lie with non-execs as well as the Bank.
Nobody denies that regulation is important but it needs to be competently done and that is what brown failed at.
The collapse should be seen less as a failure of market capitalism than as a failure of regulation and corporate governance. The fact is that businesses and industries where government doesn't constantly interfere tend to manage themselves pretty well.
Dorothy Wilson
September 29th, 2009 4:15pm Report this commentComing in from a walk around 3.30, I switched the TV on - and almost immediately switched it off. I didn't want to break the screen by throwing my screen at the man.
Actually, any sight of Sarah Brown with her husband simply raises the question in my mind: how on earth does she put up with him?
TrevorsDen
September 29th, 2009 4:22pm Report this commentIf everybody believes it its a whopping great election winning speech.
But the reality is its founded on a load of lies. Lie after lie after lie.
The media though are too scared to pint out what are plainly verifiable lies.
So the moribund electorate will probably give labour another 5+ point bounce.
Assuming the tories et equal coverage their rebuttal will bounce them.
But Brown and labour must be picked up on their lies.
I repeat we are in a benign 'phoney war' 'twilight zone' period where the debt that Brown has built up does not have to be paid.
The cuts come after the election. Everything labour are doing is to spend spend spend in the run up to the election - a good old fashioned pre election 'boom'. They are pretending it can be paid for painlessly. A final lie.
Billericay Dave
September 29th, 2009 4:23pm Report this commentWhere is the vote on the EU, he wants one on AV just so he can fiddle election results. I will now vote for the most likely party to oust the useless Liebour MP where I live, and where the hell is the money coming from for all these so called new ideas, oh yes I forgot lets tax people who work and give it to those to bone idle to get off thier backsides.
Anand
September 29th, 2009 4:24pm Report this commentmarkets ARE self disciplining, but only if you DO NOT intervene.
If we had NOT saved the banks, many would have gone bust, THAT IS the market self disciplining.
It is governments duty to ensure that free market ideals do NOT lead to national catastrophe, thats where all this lunatic ligth touch regulation failed.
Repeal of the Glass-Steagull act was the start of it all and its been an ever winding path to putting taxpayers at risk of free markets.
That is not the markets fault, thats the legislatures fault.
Legislate to keep the markets isolated in times of market catastrophe and you can stand by and hapilly watch bad banks fail with near zero consequence on the taxpayer.
yarnefromhorsham
September 29th, 2009 4:27pm Report this commentOKOKOKOK - but more to the point -what does Bellman thnk?
James S
September 29th, 2009 4:35pm Report this commentSo if Brown "won't take no for an answer" what is hegoing to do next May when we all send him a very clear message?
Vulture
September 29th, 2009 4:41pm Report this comment@Dorothy
She's his 'hersuit' dear. Rhymes with weird.
Mark Howitt
September 29th, 2009 4:44pm Report this commentI'm shocked at Brown's brazen speech but also shocked that the editor of the Spectator does not know when to use "I" and when to use "me". I am less shocked that this thread has been more about that latter fact than anything else.
Stepney
September 29th, 2009 4:44pm Report this commentWow. Confining teenage mums - how very Victorian. But the good news is that this wasn't just a speech, this was like opening a box of ammunition and asking the Tories to help themselves.
U-turns: ID cards, earnings related pensions, 24 hour drinking.
Hypocrisy: the love of the hard working classes whom he's right royally screwed for a decade.
Imprudence: debt at record levels yet enough in the kitty for a National Care Service, free childcare and increased investment in education. Where's the money Gordon?
Lunacy: we fight to win.
Here you are Dave - go get the madman.
TrevorsDen
September 29th, 2009 4:46pm Report this commentKellner of YouGov now talking about his instant poll after Browns speech. Big surprise - Brown has improved since over the weekend. Not surprising since he is promising to continue to spend and promising it will all be painless.
Can any of these instant polls be worth anything?
Is Kellner to be trusted? SKY emails back seemed dismissive of Browns speech.
IH
September 29th, 2009 4:48pm Report this commentApparently the proposal for young mums to be housed in special units was a proposal originally made by the BNP!
Verity
September 29th, 2009 4:50pm Report this commentRe your headline, you were wise to point out that Brown is live as there is no evidence for his animate state available to the naked eye.
Thomas Cussans
September 29th, 2009 4:50pm Report this commentVacuous, pointless, meaningless.
A speech that will change precisely nothing.
Still thinking 'strategically', still plotting 'headline-grabbing initiatives', still smearing the Conservatives, Gordo the Goon heroically cannot allow himself to admit the only important truth: that he has been rumbled as an incompetent and nasty inadequate who has near single-handedly brought the country to its knees.
That he should, again, press his poor, long-suffering wife into action on his behalf makes only too sickeningly clear the depths of his delusions.
Augustus
September 29th, 2009 4:51pm Report this commentWe need people who can walk this country into the future rather than back it into the future.
Stickler
September 29th, 2009 4:51pm Report this commentIt's already been mentioned, and although I too don't like to defend Brown, I do like to take Fraser down a peg when he gets too cocky, so...
"'My parents could not easily afford to put me and my brothers” - he means 'my brothers and I'"
No he doesn't. "me and my brothers" accusative case, object of "put". Saying "my brothers and I" here is a common mistake made by people who don't really understand grammar and have been taught to avoid using "me" at all costs. Stylistically you can argue he might have said "my brothers and me" rather than "me and my brothers", but grammatically he is correct.
Nevertheless a fan
September 29th, 2009 4:55pm Report this commentI am the subject of the sentence, but the object of the sentence is me. The reference to his schooling is the subject; Gordon and his brothers are the objects. Therefore, Mr. Editor, the correct use of grammar is "me and my brothers". C'mon, you're better than Dale.
Verity
September 29th, 2009 5:02pm Report this commentPhilip Walker - Good for you! People with a tin ear for grammar drive me crazy. I propose that this be made into a capital crime. There's a new usage recently sprung up among illiterate socialists - is there any other kind? - which is use of the world "myself" to mean "me" or "I". "My sisters and myself went to school in Broadstairs". "Dave and myself went out for a drink." Frankly, I think this merits the rotan.
Simon Stephenson
September 29th, 2009 5:21pm Report this comment"me and my brothers"
I think Nicholas Hallam's the only one who has got this right. It should be "my brothers and me". Quite wrong, I'm afraid, would be "my brothers and I", Fraser, and also incorrect, in my view, is "me and my brothers", since it's correct, surely, to refer to oneself last in any list.
Could it be, however, as society has become more and more self-centred, that referring to oneself at the beginning of lists has become acceptable?
Jupiter
September 29th, 2009 6:03pm Report this commentHow much did the Prime Mentalist pay his wife to marry him?
Tiberius
September 29th, 2009 7:26pm Report this commentJupiter: all he did was promise to buy her a new outfit when they met Carla Bruni. Sadly for her, he shops at Matalan.
Dorothy Wilson
September 29th, 2009 7:56pm Report this commentDean: The crisis did not start under a Republican president but can be traced back as far as Roosevelt and were made worse by legislation introduced by Carter and Clinton. That encouraged banks to grant mortgages to people who had no hope of repaying.
And the problem with the banks in the UK was largely due to the Faustian pact they had with NuLabour. The banks were allowed to get away with the worse excesses of capitalism because they generated the tax to pay for the worst excesses of socialism under Brown.
The Bellman
September 29th, 2009 8:08pm Report this comment@yarnefromhorsham: In the words of Big Gay Gordon - I mean Al - thanks for asking.
I only watched about thirty minutes of it because I had to attend a meeting. Never have I been so relieved to have to talk with a management consultant from Stuttgart.
The bar was set pretty low - it's a conference speech. For all the 'make or break' blether from the Westminster lobby - the most smartest guys in the room, as long as that room is a saloon bar with a cockroach infestation at 4 in the morning - this is neither. On current terms, 'make' = not many rumours of a leadership challenge for the next couple of weeks. It will be forgotten, even by the most devoted afficiandos of cliche, delusion and hypocrisy, in about three days.
I guess that would mean 'Break' = actually being sectioned live on TV as Lord Mandelvort looked on, wearing a stove-pipe hat and twirling a moustache he'd groomed specially for the occasion.
As to his warm-up act by Sarah 'The Human Shield' Brown: if Mrs Bellman felt the need to go around *telling* everyone how much she loved me and was proud of me, I'd be pretty humiliated. (And I'm not easily humiliated.) She might as well have added 'and he's heterosexual and he didn't have to eat his weight in horse tranqs to make it to the podium'.
michael
September 30th, 2009 4:46pm Report this commentThey started small by turning peps into isas. Banks loved it, something new to sell at much higher prices.
Flushed with success, buoyed by Greenspan, blagged by Phoenix, banks in tow... the beginning of the end... the
demtualisation of the building societies. Prudence was dead.
HMG's dash for corporation cash and the bonus for margins culture in the city, became the hand in glove approach to driving UKPLC. Mega balance sheet performance achieved through 'soft loan sharking' and trading the 'promises to pay'.
gave rise to whopping tax receits.
HMG loved it. Lying for cash...Second nature.
When the hot air balloon finally imploded,
where were its designers? Only one remained, to fulfill his God given destiny.
The other two gone, happily troughing there ill begotten gains.
However, sensing the truffle of opportunity, they return.
It's time to huff and to puff, these three don't do bricks and mortar.
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