Griffin has achieved exactly what he hoped to

Dennis Churchill

The Anti-British Nationalists were always right about needing to deprive the BNP of the “Oxygen of publicity” demonise the party and intimidate people from open support.
The political class could deliberately allow support for nationalism to grow in order to justify stronger immigration controls but their record as successful strategists is a bit suspect.

Fergus Pickering

Yup. Most enjoyable, wouldn't you say, Fraser?

Moraymint

"He only cares about the BNP target voters who might be watching: the white working class".

... deserted by all the mainstream political parties. So, are we really surprised at the rise and rise of the BNP? "Orthodox politicans" are c******g themselves.

Let's be clear. The mainstream political parties have achieved the near-impossible: deserted by the white working class and now shunned by the middle classes.

We are now left with a political class and the likes of you and me.

This is a sad state of affairs and a shocking indictment of the shambolic British political system ... which is utterly failing its citizens right now.

Small wonder there is social tension in the air.

AngloWelshDragon

Never mind Griffin orchestrating some great coup, the great unwashed baying for blood outside television centre must be winning him votes by the hundred.

As for the politicians, as you say, they will set out to make themselves look good in the eyes of their own tribes but the real point will be missed.

Even if the jeering mobs and the brilliant (unlikely, I know) perfomances of the rest of the panel leave Griffin looking like a fool and the BNP then turns up its toes the issues at the root of the despair of ordinary people - mass immigration, islamic extremism, the denegration of our culture - have not gone away.

The issue is not about Nick Griffin's racism, whether or not the BNP is a neo-nazi party or a bunch of raced-obsessed lefties it is about mass immigration and islamofascism and the fear of ordinary people that their country has been stolen from them.

Dean

One could of course be forgiven for thinking that the Spectator itself has contributed to the 'oxygen of publicity', given the amount of coverage you have devoted to Griffin in recent days.

But let's get real - UK 2009 is not Weimar Germany 1933. Griffin appearing on Question Time may be unsettling to a political establishment that is determined to suppress discussion of the issues that cause people to vote BNP. But it is not going to change the course of British history. Our democracy should be strong enough to handle the occasional expression of extreme opinions.

Ken Livingstone said that giving Griffin airtime will increase the number of racist attacks. But you can use this argument to suppress almost any expression of free speech. Expressing a view is not the same thing as incitement to violence, and in general British courts know perfectly well where the line should be drawn.

crappy little country, crappy people in it

You won't need to watch Question Time to hear shrill criticism of Griffin. Turned on News 24 to hear the indian-subcontinent-accented voice of such a critic likening Griffin to Hitler (I thought that was Bush, btw). Thinking that this was all too predictable, I turned off. All such schreeching will surely alienate the white working class who, still believing in the British tradition of free speech, see Griffen as a victim. They will see him as someone being shouted down for stating concerns that their political elite have decided are untouchable. They will see Griffin as someone who hasn't abandoned them. The worm is turning, and it is obviously spooking the people who stole our country.

Frank P

"PS. Coffee House will be live-blogging tonight's Question Time. Stay tuned from 2230."

Isn't that a bit 'shrill' in and of itself, Fraser? Good article except that you seem to have missed the irony that you are as bad as the rest. Of course Griffin is on to a win-win. He's the only one on the favourites and the rest of you want to back the outsiders, when it comes to policy, 'cos you don't like the name of the two favourite horses: 5-1 on Non Immigrato, Evens 'Outta Europa'!

"I gotta Horse ... I gotta Horse!" In fact "Prince Monolulu" Griffin has several horses and will nobble the field bar two, tonight.
You couldn't make it up. (Sorry Richard Littlejohn, but as you said yourself this week, you had your chance and blew it).

It's easy, buy those two horses, withdraw them from the race and put them out to stud. They'll produce winner after winner in the GE Stakes.

David Ossitt

"For every 50 people who think he disgraced himself, there may be only one person who thinks he might have a point"

You wish!

In my opinion he will have at least 10%.

Peter From Maidstone

As far as the New Labour is concerned, Tony Blair has already won this Question Time debate. It’s not about whether he does badly or well – he simply wins from the publicity. He’s been on Channel Four news, got an interview in today’s Times, all will be splashed all across the tabloids tomorrow – and that’s before we consider the Question Time slot itself. Then, he will win because, as we emphasise in the leader of this week’s magazine, millions watch Question Time. For every 50 people who think he disgraced himself, there may be only one person who thinks he might have a point. But, for Blair, that will be enough.

Wilhelm

Well Fraser its you and the liberal media's fault, isnt it ?

Your shrill reaction on the Spectator has completely and utterly backfired. Oh dear !

Beer Moth

"He only cares about the BNP target voters who might be watching: the white working class."

I am white and I have to work for my living and I am sick of watching my nation being handed over to those who are changing it into a place in which my children will be estranged in their own land.

It is so refreshing that there might be someone in the whole stinking Westminster pile, who is bothered in any way about us.

... ..

Whatever the public decide at the election for the main three parties....Nick Griffin & the BNP can not be blamed for.
FACT-Labour have encouraged unfetted immigration.Stuff the voter.
FACT-Conservatives have gone dumb on the subject in 'fear'of what Labour will say about them.Stuff the voter.
FACT-Lib Dems are calling the BNP,yet again do not tell us what they will do about immigration.Stuff the voter.
The second MAJOR gripe of us Brits is Europe.Just repeat the above and you have the three main parties policies.Stuff the voter.
The majority of ALL British voters WANT immigration curtailed and LESS EU meddling.
Fraser, Are you 100% sure of your 50-1 ratio? And have you got it 100% the right way around.
While politicians act like it's ALL ABOUT THEM,how THEY come across,how THEY look to EACH OTHER,THEY WILL LOSE SUPPORTERS,even their core supporters.The next election is ALL ABOUT US.The GREAT British public,who are sickened by the lot of them,their useless policies,their arrogance,their greed and their sheer ignorance of what is REALLY being felt by us on the front line.
Media outlets forget at their peril the KINNOCK POLLS,you think it's only relevant to the main three parties,but add a party like the BNP,who very few will admit to voting for if questioned,and you have a recipe for an EARTHQUAKE of an election.
Am I going to vote BNP?You bet ya!
Am I going to vote BNP? NEVER!Just a bunch of racist thugs!!!!
Which of my answers is the correct one?
Now, which one of the answers is mine?

Nicholas

The anti-fascist brigade don't seem to see the irony of their demands to stop the BNP from being heard. One wonders what their "anti-fascism" is rooted in. Socialist fascism I suspect.

Verity

"Griffin has achieved exactly what he wanted …" ... which puts him ahead of Gordon Brown and David Cameron.

Moraymint correctly writes: "The mainstream political parties have achieved the near-impossible: deserted by the white working class and now shunned by the middle classes.

"We are now left with a political class and the likes of you and me."

Quite.

TrevorsDen

Absolutely spot on Mr Nelson - I love you and want to have your babies!

"Let's be clear. The mainstream political parties have achieved the near-impossible: " Look lets be clear about this, its the appalling policies of the Labour Party over 12 years that put us in this position.

brown parrots BJFBW which was a godsend for the BNP and what do we get - a strike where British workers were specifically excluded by immigrants.

It is only the temperance of the mainstream opposition parties that does not fire up a maelstrom of racist backlashes.
That of course is what labour relies on.

Oscar India

The reality is that most of the protestors outside and, apparently, inside the BBC are not there because they're outraged about Griffin on QT. They're there because they see themselves as a walking moral high ground. They think they're important. That's why not one of them stopped to think "Hang on....by turning up and breaking into TV Centre am I not playing into the BNP's hands?". Zero self awareness combined with a megaphone. Great.

Herbert Thornton

Fraser's comments seem to me to be summarised in his assertions that Griffin is not interested in persuading people that his party has reasonable and desirable policies, but merely that he wants to "draw a shrill reaction from his critics", and that for every 50 people who disagree with him, "maybe" only one will think he "has a point".

I think that Fraser is indulging in wishful thinking.

I thing that people who disagree with the policies of the BNP should explain, among other things, why the British Parliament should become subordinated to increasingly unreasonable, rigid, and bureaucratic rule from Europe; why the British people should continue to be denied a promised referendum on the topic; why immigration should continue to be allowed and even encouraged; and above all, why British people should tolerate the rapidly growing presence of Islam when its followers are so reluctant to condemn Islamic terrorism, when other of its followers publicly call for people to be beheaded, and when the Islamic community has actually been the source of atrocities in Britain such as the London bombings and when the security services know - and have warned - that elements in the Islamic community are still endeavouring to form terrorist cells to commit more atrocities.

strapworld

I do agree with Moraymint and I am quite surprised with you, Fraser.

Why are the BNP becoming more succesful? It is because the 'mainstream' parties are all looking the same way and are all ignoring the dangers to our society and our way of life that mass immigration brings.

I have many friends who are black carribean and who consider themselves, as I consider them, British. They are as concerned about the real threat coming from muslims.

I am sure the BNP will have MP's elected at the next general election. That will be the fault, totally, of Labour/Conservative/Liberal Democrat politicians who have closed their eyes to the changing of our towns and cities and in many cases welcomed it!

People are now waking up to the fact that someone, a party, any party! is taking their concerns seriously.

I doubt that Cameron will do anything- he has no perception of the problem at all- Brown neither and Clegg ignores the evidence in Sheffield itself!

I abhor the BNP and its far left stance. BUT I am aware that on that one issue, immigration, they stand to win seats..

logdon

Moraymint

As in this? What a circus?

Note a Labour MP, Virendra Sharma's racial partisan presence. So much for her take on democratic free speech. Would she be as vociferous on behalf of her white constituents?

I think the answer would be, in her neck of the woods, 'your having a larf, aren't you?'

Three arrested at anti-BNP protest
Last Updated: Thursday, 22 October 2009, 15:20 GMT

Three arrested at anti-BNP protest

Three people have been arrested as anti-fascist protesters demonstrating against BNP leader Nick Griffin's appearance on Question Time broke through a security cordon outside BBC Television Centre.

About 25 protesters gained entry to the reception area of the building in White City, west London, as more than 500 people demonstrated prior to filming of the political debate show.

The Metropolitan Police said there were three arrests, two for violent disorder and the third of a person wanted on warrant.

The BBC said the disruption was dealt with promptly. The number of officers on the ground appeared to increase significantly as the crowd grew in numbers during the evening. A police helicopter circled overhead.

Mr Griffin, 50, was preparing to share the platform with Justice Secretary Jack Straw, Tory peer Baroness Warsi, Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne and writer Bonnie Greer.

As the debate approached, the chants outside Television Centre grew louder with the crowd yelling: "We're black, white, Asian and Jew, BBC shame on you", and "we won't let Nick Griffin through".

But the BNP leader used a side entrance to gain access to Television Centre.

Senior BBC broadcaster Jeremy Bowen said as he left the building: "I think it's fine that people are protesting. It's a legitimate protest. People are making clear their views. I think we live in a free society and there's free speech and while it's obviously highly controversial, I personally think it's the right decision to have him on."

Labour MP for Ealing Southall Virendra Sharma joined protesters outside the building. He said: "It's important that we show our opposition to a party that is deliberately trying to divide our communities."

logdon

PS

Before anyone ploughs in, I realise that by having a go at her partisan affiliations I am denying her free speech, but anyone notice the paradox?

As in the Cartoon demos where 'Free speech go to hell' banners were paraded with impunity, and apparent ignorance of the irony incurred, most Muslim demos are actually just that. Demo's denying this privilege to the rest.

To me that is about as supremacist as it gets. Do as I say, not as I do.

There's a biggy coming up with the imposition of shariah as it's subject.

Will kettling now consist of making a nice cup of PG for those thirsty Jihadis.

Or will the rule of law be applied equally?

Paul B

I`m getting fed up with the BNP traditional support being described as white and working class. I am white, I am working class, and I don`t support them, nor do any of my friends. How about describing their support as bone headed low lifes. That would be far more accurate

Noa Zrk

I'm incredibly annoyed with the unbalanced and insidiously pejorative use of language by the fourth Estate. Why are the BNP described as Racists and their opponents anti-facist? Why not call them Nationalist and the Far left or International Socialist. But then, that wouldn't pre-attune the reader to the required mindset, would it?

TGF UKIP

Oh dear, Fraser, not very popular people are you, the villagers?

I suspect Griffin gets the sympathy he does in the Coffee House but not support because he at least discusses immigration and Europe.

Now hands up all those who can name the party leader who absolutely forbids mention of Europe and immigration by his team.

Any white working class people who vote for the Cameron Clique must be mad.

TrevorsDen

The BNP will not have an MP elected at the next GE- that is pure hysteria.

OPh dear -- Its that 'mainstream parties' again. The government party is to blame. Tories in opposition are careful NOT to exploit the racism that the BNP does.

But some do not want to listen - just pander their own prejudice.

jack straws dad

Churchill:

Indeed it is evident that Christianity, however degraded and distorted by cruelty and intolerance, must always exert a modifying influence on men's passions, and protect them from the more violent forms of fanatical fever, as we are protected from smallpox by vaccination. But the Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword, and ever since, its votaries have been subject, above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness.

as seen on todays EUReferendum

Wilhelm

Fraser has single handed alienated the entire readership of the Spectator.

Well done son.

Not for Prophet Motive

Paul B - then who do you support? ... because there is no one supporting you and your family.

Merlinski

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

As Evelyn Hall wrote in "The Friends of Voltaire" (1906).

It sprang to mind as it has been attributed to Churchill in the past, and seemed apposite given all the claims about just who is laying claim to whose mantel.

I'd rather know what people think so I can avoid them in the future than have them silenced by the rent-a-mobs in the pay of those who would tell me what to think - a category which seems to include the BBC on current performance.

Merlinksi

Merlinski

A question was raised somewhere recently,

"Why is it that Islam, of all the world's religions, is the one with the bloodiest borders?"

Did we ever get an answer?

David Ossitt

Peter From Maidstone

"As far as the New Labour is concerned, Tony Blair has already won this Question Time debate"

Peter what are you on about?

Please elucidate.