My beef with Stern

Bill Rees

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that people like me, in our 50s, have lived through a golden age that is now rapidly coming to an end.
Not because of climate change, though, but because of bossy politicians, 'experts' who know what is good for us, and busybodies who want to tell us what we should think, eat and say.

Ben Stevenson

Exactly right. I don't believe we will convince huge numbers of people to give up things they enjoy.

The focus on tackling climate change should be better technology, and improved infrastructure so countries are equipped for whatever challenges arise. These two things would be beneficial whatever the extent of climate change.

TrevorsDen

"People are, understandably, not going to accept being told ... "

But by your own admission you say you believe that 'people' are causing global warming. So by your logic people should bear the consequences.

The absurdity is not in the remedy - it is in the diagnosis.

Tiberius

I claim the Phil Woolas defence: I've never heard of Nick Stern.

Verity

"Those of us who think that climate change is happening and that human activity is a part of it have a big enough case to make...".

Oh, Gawwwwwdd!

Frank P

Stern is an America-hater and counter-culture warrior. What more needs to be said? However, as the vast majority of the punters in the West have now swallowed this bullshit, along with the accompanying methane, it will have it's effect on the habits of the populace and, like the BSE sacre, cause unnecessary panic in the markets.

"People are, understandably, not going to accept being told that they can’t fly, eat meat or have the heating on"

Well, already my ability to do any of the things you list is already severely curtailed by cost; so how can you say they won't accept it? What can they bloody do about it, other than massacre the whole political breed and their apparatchiks and start again? Perhaps we are nearing that point and the Griffin monster is the first indicator that its about to erupt.

Frank S

The impact of humans on the climate is so small that 20 years and 100 billion dollars of research subsidies have not found any convincing evidence. Stern, or Lord Swampy the Snake Oil Salesman as some might know him, has a simplistic view of the impact of CO2. Like other gases, the radiative impact is not linear at current concentrations, but is on a flattening out curve. Even a doubling of CO2 levels is not cause for alarm, and in fact ought to be welcomed for the boost it would give to plant growth.

Frank P

PS
What 'climate change' anyway? The phrase itself is tautology. A nonsense! Or rather more Orwellian new speak.

Diane C - London

The green fanatics are so vociferous that one could be forgiven for thinking that their opinion is accepted by everyone. But it's not. I actually don't know a single soul who spends any time at all thinking about it, worrying about it, doing anything to stop it, or even believing it. In our own quiet little way, we are simply ignoring it and will continue to do so until the whole sorry scam is exposed as exactly that - a scam.

Paul

The Technology led approach is all well and good but unfortunately comes up against people (normally those are over 50) who refuse to allow windfarms or change to lower wattage lightbulbs.

Ray Burston

James, the reason you are having an uphill battle to convince people about man-made climate change is because more and more of us are looking at the evidence and coming to the conclusion that it is bunkum!

biggestaspidistra

I wonder if the Spectator should have waited a week before writing this, in case Stern wants to clarify his statement.

After the Neather admission I'm reconsidering the reasons for everything. A postal strike to end Christmas. Enforced vegetarianism in the UK, rather than cleaning up one Chinese foundry. Diversity to end free speech.

Liz Brown

Bullocks to the whole damn lot of global warming alarmists

Welsh Drinker

Forgive me, this is total OT but I think helpful.

THE NEW TELEPHONE 'SCAM' HAS ARRIVED.

I received a call from a 'representative' of BT,
informing me that he was dis-connecting me because of an
unpaid bill. He demanded payment immediately of £31.00, or it would be £ 118.00 to re-connect at a later date.

The guy wasn't even fazed when I told him I was with
Virgin Media, allegedly VM have to pay BT a percentage for
line rental!

I asked the guy's name - he gave me the very 'English' John Peacock with a very 'African' accent - & phone number - 0800 0800 152.

Obviously the fellow realized I didn’t believe his
story, so offered to demonstrate that he was from BT. I
asked how & he told me to hang up & try phoning
someone - he would dis-connect my phone to prevent this.
AND HE DID!! My phone was dead - no engaged tone, nothing - until he phoned me again.

Very pleased with himself, he asked if that was enough proof that he was with BT. I asked how the payment was to be made & he said credit card, there & then.

I said that I didn't know how he'd done it, but I had absolutely no intention of paying him, I didn't believe his name or that he worked for BT.

He hung up.

Dialled 1471 & phoned his fictitious 0800 number - not
recognized.

I phoned the police to let them know. I wasn't the first! It's only just started apparently, but it is escalating.

Their advice was to let as many people as possible know of this scam. The fact that the phone does go off would probably convince some people it's real, so please make as many friends & family aware of this.
---------------------------------------------------------- --

A colleague replied with the following

Real con job, don't get caught

This is good but not that clever. He gave the wrong number - it should have been 0800 800 152 which takes you through to BT Business. The cutting off of the line is very simple, he stays on the line with the mute button on and you can't dial out - but he can hear you trying (This is because the person who initiates a call is the one to terminate it). When you stop trying he cuts off and immediately calls back. You could almost be convinced! The sad thing is that it is so simple that it will certainly fool the elderly and vulnerable.

By the way this is not about getting the cash as this would not get past merchant services - it is all about getting the credit card details which include the security number so that it can be used for far larger purchases.

Cheers

Olaf

I'm cold, I like steak and live at the top of a hill. Other than a potential new Liebore 'beef tax' this all looks like win win for me.

BTW I now list human driven global warming along with fairies and the Loch Ness monster. Except we don't have, fairy protection tax or monster pollution tax. Yet.

Ivy Eileen

Terry Wogan had the best put-down for this this morning - "aren't cows vegetarian ?"

Bocephus

Climate change doesn't exist. In Chicago freezing winters are followed by hot summers. It was ever thus. In London a heat wave in June is followed by 3 weeks of rain in July. It was ever thus. Come back to me when the weather in London is like Monte Carlo. Now that would be climate change.

paul hughes

Yes, cows are vefetarians and very few cows have caused fiscal crises or invaded foreign countries on dubious grounds.

I'm a hard right winger and a vegetarian. The right have morals whilst the left enjoy ideology to which they bend reality and force compliance. Vegetarianism is a moral choice, if it is also a green choice then I am pleased to have extra weight on my side of this divide.

I truly can't understand how people can "ooh" and "aah" over lassie, whales and pandas whilst chomping on pigs, sheep, cows and anything else within reach. I "ooh" and "aah over everything that moves (besides Labour scum and benefit parasites) whilst refusing to eat anything which has enough self-awareness with which to attempt an escape.

Conservatism, if it means anything, is the realisation that some things are beautiful, that some things are worthy of sentiment, that some things are worth preserving. Conservation, therefore, is a worthy cause for any true Conservative and the damage done to the environment by the farming of meat is, in an age of exponentionally rising population, anathaema to anyone who wishes to reconcile more people with limited resources.

Yes, it's a sentimental argument. Yes, it's my choice. Yes, we all have the right to eat whatever we like, etc... 200 years ago we had the right to send boys up chimneys, slaves to the new world (210 years ago) and women into joyless marriages. Having the right to do something doesn't make it right.

Free the cows! Eat a carrot!

Draughtsman

Give me strength - is there no limit to the drivel that these warmists can spout and still be reported seriously in the media? For pity's sake look at the science not the computer generated propaganda. The latest revelation by no lesser a person than Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT one of the world's foremost climatologists who studies real world data not computer predictions and this time from the ERBE satellite, has shown, using fifteen years worth of data, that the effect of CO2 on the Earth's climate is only one sixth of that assumed in all of the computer models. If the science had not become so politicised then this finding would end the debate and the rediculous CO2 scare would be over. Has it been reported anywhere in the media? No. So much money and power is tied up in this scam now that if we were on an annual basis up to our waists in snow drifts in June the warmists would still be saying 'well just wait another ten years and you will see'.

Unless politicians of all persuasions are bigger and more gullible fools than they appear, then my opinion is that they know that man made global warming is pseudo scientific bullshit but see it as a marvellous way to screw taxes out of us and dictate to us how we should lead our lives in the name of saving the planet.

Far more worrying the possibility that the world could cool in the next two decades with all the implications for food production that would entail, is not even being considered.

The Bellman

@paul hughes: "Conservatism... is the realisation that some things are beautiful, ... that some things are worth preserving."

And that some things are delicious in an improving sauce, served with seasonal vegetables and a decent bottle of wine.

As Homer Simpson pointed out: You don't win friends with salad.

TomTom

Is Lord Stern seriously suggesting we eat vegetarians as an answer to this conundrum ?

paul hughes

...in which case we ought to make the best use of the available agricultural land. Meat is an inefficient source of protein.

Tiberius

Good to see you again, Bellman.

Have you been away while the immigration scandal has been mot du jour?

oldtimer

This is the thin end of a wedge - like the fart tax about to be imposed on farmers` cattle. That started with someone at No 10 wondering aloud a few months ago (it even featured on the Spectator Coffee House blog).

If you really believe all this stuff, what better way to start than by slaughtering all wild animals. The wildebeest must create quite a stink, especially when they are running for their lives. When you have dealt with them, it will be time to start on the humapn population. How about compulsory euthanasia at 65? Not only would it help the cause of global warming, just think how much would be saved on pensions? Moreover, in a welcome double whammy, the savings in benefit payments would solve the national debt problem in a couple of years, private pensions could again look forward to solvency, and the government could look forward to an accelerated stream of IHT income. Why the delay? We need action this day!

Draughtsman

Paul @ 1.47pm. I am over 60 and I won't change my incandescent lighting for the dismal old fashioned 1980s CFL technology. What I will do is wait for LED (Light Emitting Diode) room and area lighting to become readily available, which it should within the next year to eighteen months, although at a price at first, and change to that. LEDs are really efficient, give out a strong flicker free light, and will last for many years.

The Bellman

@Tiberius: I was in India all last week, so I'm running to catch up with all the thrilling news that I missed during my absence. I mean of course the real news, like Cheryl Cole's album release, rather than the spurious, somewhat marginal stuff about how it seems the UK isn't the major economy best-placed to withstand the recession after all.

I know we're not supposed to enjoy bad news, but at least when there's some *proper* bad news around, McSnotty goes into hiding and are spared his ludicrous swanking around like a recently-appointed head of house prefects. Frankly I could happily suffer further collapses in GDP if it keeps that gurning, delusional buffoon off my television set.

Alfred T Mahan

Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.

The big question is - is it the people who come up with this nonsense, or us for being mad enough to let them into positions of power in the first place?

Nicholas Hallam

There is no aspect of our freedom that climate alarmists will leave untouched if we let them.

John Bowman

Eleven years of observed data showing no warming and then cooling, during a period of increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration, does not support the claim that CO2 is the primary forcing agent of climate behaviour.

That Mankind affects the environment and climate is indisputable, but not significantly by a single factor - so do plants and other animals and natural events.

Weight for weight meat and dairy contain a far higher concentration of essential nutrients than non-meat.

One of the main ways Mankind can affect local climate is land use, which would increase enormously if we were to attempt to feed the growing World population with non-meat produce.

For a better understanding of vegetarian diet, visit Africa.

Fergus Pickering

Paul, if we chomped on carrots all day we wouldn't free the cows. We'd kill 'em. Besides, have you never heard a carrot's amplified cry of pain as you pull it out of the ground. You don't suppose it WANTS to be eaten, do you? Personally I think Swift had the right idea. Eat babies. Or eat this arsehole, Stern.

2trueblue

Its the new religion, climate change. Anyone who diasagrees with it is airbrushed out and not invited to the jamborees that the enthuastiasts throw to chat to each other and impress us with their importance. What I do believe is we should all clean up after ourselves, be less wasteful, and the governments would do better getting food providers to put our food, that has to be packaged, in containers that can be recycled. Thats just common sense. They can tax me into oblivion and I still won't be brainwashed by their new religion.

Snowman

I tell you what bugs me. We're told that the density of CO2 has gone up from 280ppm (parts per million) some 200 years ago to 380ppm now. Well, that means that the air today contains 99.962% of particles (mostly moisture) other than CO2 rather than 99.972%. Can you spot the difference? And this infinitesimal change in the composition of air is supposed to be killing life as we know it. We must be mad, no question about it.

Snowman

Man’s activity – flying, cooking, driving, steel bashing and the rest – accounts for around 4% of the aggregate annual discharge of CO2. Nature releases the bulk. Nothing short of all the 6bn people who inhabit this planet dropping dead can produce any meaningful reduction in the aggregate. Asking us to drive slower, switch bulbs, chew carrots or whatever is indeed akin to telling people to pee into the ocean to stop a tsunami. Marginal at best, and totally worthless at worst. And only good for men who don’t mind wearing wet trousers anyway.

Emil

James Forsyth

Since your comments suggest you are a fully paid up member of this new religion could you please tell me at exactly which point would you like "climate change" (which has happened since time began) to stop? The trouble with people like Stern is that some muppets start to listen to them and they then have to look for the next activity to ban, or more likely tax to the high heavens.

Ben Elford

If it's really the case that people are the real problem, then it would be a selfless act on Lord Stern's part to purchase a single to Switzerland (on the train, of course).

Any other worthy nominees?

Scottish Cheeselog

Possibly they're starting to push this stuff about methane because they need a new narrative. The story about the big bad evil CO2 that's destroying the planet (apart from being a necessary and unavoidable part of life) is steadily fading away in front of the actual science involved. Not to mention the real life observations which are basically showing their models are complete crap. The alarmists still need a stick to beat us with because they can't bear to give up power and will never admit that they're wrong. So when they fail to force us back into the dark ages in the vain and pointless attempt to reduce carbon emissions by 80%* they'll start expanding on this how-dare-you-eat-meat-it-causes-methane mantra.

* Which, because we breathe out CO2, will probably result in us only being allowed to breathe free for 12 minutes in every hour, and be taxed to the hilt on the other 48.

Andy

So we're supposed to eat veg because animals produce methane. Does that mean vegetarians never fart? The real driver of man-made climate change (assuming it exists) is too many people. Who is going to address the problem of rapidly expanding populations?

Thomas Cussans

Stern is a sanctimonious, self-important hypocrite. It is depressing beyond belief that anyone should seriously the vapourings of this pinhead.

Fartin' Frank

Haven't they missed a trick here?
Cows' contribution to eco-doom is supposed to be the methane from their bottoms - and methane, surely, is a fuel.
So capture the stuff, bottle it, and sell it as "dairy energy"

AlisonC

As someone who did a science degree, (over 25 years ago when a degree involved having to understand science, and to think) and having some knowledge of climate variation, I am not convinced about the current 'climate change' ranting. Climate on earth is subject to variation and I'm not convinced man has much influence. During Dinosaur era, it was much much hotter, and there were no cars/pollution... Take the 1600s, a mini ice age. (all those paintings about people skating on the Thames) We came out of it (warmed up) but there was no significant man activity involved at the time, as there was no industrial activity. So I think it's dubious. Yes, a cow costs carbon, so eat less cow. Eat rabbit which reproduces itself 100 fold in a year for almost zero impact. Tastes quite nice although the rib eye is tiny :-)

And don't spend billions ameliorating something that is unproven. Spend it on contraception for developing nations, and nuclear power. Not wind effing farms which are effing useless...

Snowman

Andy @ 7.14

Who is going to address the problem of rapidly expanding populations?

One has to break the argument about overpopulation abit. The affluent West (or is it effluent, never sure which) plus Russia, Japan don’t breed enough, certainly not in sufficient numbers to replace the dead (see Mark Steyn for much more, and much better explanation). The new epicureans don’t want to be fussing with kids, and have the State (or rather the future taxpayers) to rely on as their happiness inducing bodily functions droop away. In the low income countries it’s just the other way round, sort of. There, the children are still perceived as the best hedge against poverty in old age. ( I just realize, can I say this? Isn’t it racist?). Anyway, how would one go advocating a break on breeding in one part of the world, and the reverse in another?

MaxSceptic

"Those of us who think that climate change is happening and that human activity is a part of it... "

Et ti, Brute?

You have some serious work to do if you wish to restore your credibility.

Nicholas

Is Stern a vegetarian himself? I understand a meat free diet can lead to feeble mindedness. The posts by paul hughes seem to confirm this.

This is the usual drip feed approach of the Banning Brigade. Same tactics with smoking and now drinking. Same arseholes involved.

Austin Barry

So alarmed am I by Global Warming that I have resolved to retain my personal methane gases for the rest of my life. To this end I have given up Guinness, beans and onions. I hope that other CoffeeHousers will join me. If we can build up a sufficient head of steam our movement will surely explode across the world in a tsunami epitomising Nick Stern's glorious global rescue strategies.

TGF UKIP

Oh Tiberius, of course you've heard of "Nick" Stern. As Sir Nicholas he produced the Brown commissioned, riddled-with-holes "climate change report. Now of course he's Lord Stern, but fellow villagers like Nick and Jim must always refer to each other by their diminutives.

In2minds

Well done paul hughes @ 3.12pm, I declare you the winner. The formulaic approach of Stern and funnily enough the carnivores, is rather worrying. If you say “I don't eat meat” this can lead to a lecture from those who do and is often based on a variety of dud concepts. Bugger the morality, economics the carbon footprint and green-ness of it all, what if you don't eat it because you don't like it? The clever squad seldom factor that into their lecture!

Archie

Nick Stern: Who he? And, er, just who is going to tell the Indians that cows aren't allowed?

Pedro

A recent poll in Australia which previously showed a big majority of people thought climate change was a serious problem has now dropped to a minority. This is despite the media, especially the ABC (our BBC), reporting, uncritically, every press release or report put our by the alarmists. These alarmists are running out of new ways to induce fear so they are clearly losing the propaganda war. Soon I expect politicians to start jumping off this bandwagon.

Ian Walker

"This is my belief, but I think that the public isn't ready to accept my belief, so instead of arguing the case like a grown up, I'll wrap it up in some sugar and feed it to them piecemeal until they don't even realised I've changed them."

Presumably your New Labour membership card is in the post already?

NickW

An unanswered question or two.
One million plug in electric cars in the UK will increase national power consumption by 15-20%. Given that we already face a generating shortfall in the near future; where will the electricity come from and at what price?
When winter comes; and the temeprature is below freezing; how will electric cars be heated and demisted, and what will it do to their range?

Coney Weston

Well having read all the posts on this site I think one can honestly say that Lord (what did he get a peerage for anyway) Stern has been firmly put in his place. So all you posters should now go out and have a good steak to get your strengths back.

Carl Barron

Climate guru: Stop eating meat,you say?

Another stupid idea is this. For as the entire output from the UK of co2 is approximately only 2 per cent of the total Global production of co2.

Hence if the UK ceased to exist it would make very little difference at all.

This wild speculation as to Co2 is only a new form of Tax, nothing more, nothing less.

Signed Carl Barron Chairman of agpcuk

Frank P

paul hughes

'Free the cows! Eat a carrot!'

Why don't you f**k a cow and stick the carrot up he orifice you're talking out of.

James

Why do I get the impression that your punters are being exploited - to up your hit rate. I get it! I get it! You write twaddle in support of bollocks and we go incandescent! It's great fun and good comedy (better than most of what we see on TV). But I thought you had been appointed the POLITICAL editor of this magazine.

Btw., there are so many witty ripostes on this thread, I hate to have to pick a winner, but once again Austin Barry heads my short list - so far.

Tom Tom

You're on it too, you wouldn't be the Tommy Tucker who used to post on TDA and Melanie's old site, are you? If not, you're certainly in his class.

John Sherouse

Global warming will fix itself, it's called an ice age. We have them. We also have interglacial periods (think warm thoughts). When the Earth is transitioning from one to the other it experiences warming and cooling. Warm periods are good. During times of relatively high temperatures and relatively high CO2 concentrations, we see high biological diversity and populations spreading to the poles. During cold times we see mass exticntions and restricted habitats for those that survive. Warm = good. Cold = bad. Fear the cold, fire the politicians.

Frank P

John Sherhouse

Good! Another sane man joins the commentariat.

Bert

Seems like expectation management.

Outline the worst case scenario so that incremental erosion of liberty does'nt seem so bad.