Swearing allegiance

salieri

What a sad, sad little man Goldsmith has become since leaving the Bar. First Bliar's poodle and now McBean's, and on behalf of both showing such conceited indignation at the mere thought of being questioned. What does he do for a living now?

Dave B

It would be a huge improvement if the political left would just stop denigrating British culture and history.

Chuck Unsworth

Goldsmith seems to have lost it somewhat. When asked why people 'should' swear allegiance his response seemed to be that he couldn't see 'why not'. Is this really the level of intellectual underpinning of his position? Very poor. He didn't seem to recognise that this sort of charade does little to change the fundamentals. Indeed he was of the view that, having attended a few of these 'ceremonies', they were eminently successful. Well, that's OK then. The proof is in the eating - and we're a very long way away from that. Still, I suppose it gives him something to fill his otherwise empty days.

mike

We were doing OK, why can't all the parties stop coming up with things we don't care about. All governments had their own idea of how to manage the mob. The Tories before Maggie ruled by the "know your place" bit, and we did and were happy. Maggie ruled by using the police force as her incentive, do what we were told or get the c**p kicked out of us, we knew our place. Some got beaten up, some went to prison and the rest of us did nothing, most were not happy, that would be the workers and poor people. Now we have this gang, trying always to do the right thing, to please everyone, they need to do what is needed, ignore the press and the blogs, proper folk don't bother with either. That's what is needed.

Faceless Bureaucrat

What a sad end to a once great nation - I suppose we should be grateful he isn't suggesting our school-children should swear alliegence to the European flag. Still, give him time...

Mull

I see to be doubly f-ing irritating that you have started putting adverts in the RSS feed of your articles, even though you only give out lame partial feeds. I'm unsubscribing from this blog now, it's crap.

The Laughing Cavalier

The looniest idea of all is to have some sort of "Citizens Corps". Perhaps they could be called Brown Shirts.

Caroline Hutton

It's worse than that. What about children in Northern Ireland where even the policemen don't swear an oath? It will be a red rag to a bull to many youngsters for whom it will become a point of honour to refuse in a public and dramatic fashion in order to prove that they have other inimical allegiances, republican, religious or otherwise. The whole point of Britishness is that red rags are pointedly not waved

RW

To propose that school children should swear allegiance to anything at all is a thoroughly obnoxious and very un-British notion. It's surprising Goldsmith can't see that. What would happen to those who refuse to comply - would they be regarded as second-class citizens? or worse, logged on a database of suspected future subversive elements? What would the Supreme Leader want to do next? Make them swear an oath of allegiance to himself?

Ted Tedford

I wonder if Her Majesty's Government consulted Her Majesty before tumbling into print with this absurd idea?

William Norton

This is a truly exciting proposal, which copies the great success they have had at achieving unity and loyalty in the US. Of course, you couldn't copy the US example directly. It would have to be adapted to reflect life in the UK. How about this: "I promise to try to work towards a system in which on a going-forward basis I render an appropriate amount of social cohesion under the Flag of the United Kingdom, and to the unit or units of governance of which it is a meaningful representative symbol (until such time as it is replaced by that blue thing they have in Brussels), a number of Nations co-operating in a dynamic modern devolved constitutional arrangement (but not in England), under such form of religious symbolism or ethical code, if any, in which from time to time I currently claim to believe, indivisible for the foreseeable future, with a reasonable degree of liberty which takes into account the justifiable need to maintain absolute vigilance and security and social justice for all special interest and minority groups who can shout loud enough and threaten to kick up a fuss if they don't get their way."

P Orrell

The usual lefties are kicking off - 'Baroness' Kennedy for one - but the reason the Queen has been dragged in is that the royals are held in pretty high regard among the non-Anglos in the UK.

Discovering this was a big surprise for NuLab, but it's pretty sad that multiculturalism has left the UK in a position that the only common icon pretty much everybody can get behind is the Queen.

EyeSee

It is Sun reader tat, aimed at making people of the same intellectual capacity as New Labour oinks believe they are 'doing something'. As the EU makes a Sovereign redundant, why bring up an oath, just after signing a document consigning Britain to the bin, with the Queen? You can certainly see the incentive for NL to abolish education, as they are doing remarkably well with. Oh and Mike, to make observations, first observe. If you want to trot out trite remarks about the administration (Thatcher's) that fed wealth into this current shower, you will find your peers read the Sun.

Pete

What if your child is a republican? Won't they have the freedom to express that opinion ? Should they lie and swear allegiance to the queen just like our MPs who then vote allow EU laws primacy over UK laws? laws. Our political class really are dross.

Austin Barry

Goldsmith also wants to update the national anthem by "removing verses which are rarely performed". So why bother then? We're ruled by buffoons.

verity

William Norton - Well said! This whole idea is typically nuts. The socialists do not understand normal people and should not be trying to prescribe for them.

James

It is dawning on our political class that if you don’t have a culturally homogeneous country then people increasingly resent paying high taxes for a welfare state supporting people they have little in common with.

Thomas Widmann

Are all school leavers supposed to swear this oath to the Queen, even those that are not her subjects? Let's face it, there are many pupils in British schools that are citizens of foreign countries. Would they be asked to leave the room while their classmates take the oath?

Pete

Could you opt out of swearing allegiance to Britain and instead swear allegiance to England?

CS

If you are a British citizen by birth, you legally owe allegiance to the Queen whether you like it or not. So what's the point of rubbing it in for those who may not be wild about the idea but are currently not too bothered either because it doesn't really impinge on their day to day life? It's like this myth that people in sensitive positions sign the Official Secrets Act. They don't. The entire population is bound by the Act whether they sign a piece of paper to say that they agree with or not.

Lance Diatessaron

CS: I signed the Official Secrets Act, and it was made clear to me that I would be bound by it forever. I resented having to sign, in the same way that I would resent having to take an oath of allegiance. I have no intention of divulging secrets, and not because I signed an agreement, but because it would be wrong. Similarly, my loyalty to HMtQ arises from the contract between myself and my country, embodied by the sovereign, and my ancestors and successors, and is not contingent on taking an oath. As RW says above, this is all very un-British.

mark

Lance - great post with which I completely agree. Although as a retired RAF officer I can say that I too signed the Act AND pledged an oath of allegiance to the Queen. But of course both of these were in the context of the military and so was completely normal and, erm, British. But to insist that everyone does it - Good Grief.......!!!! But as another blogger has said - it will take around 10 years for anything to be agreed so no need to get too worked up about it. I would love to hear what HM has to say about it!!!!

Michael Remington

Similar controversy in Japan, where the Education Ministry has tried to punish teachers and pupils who don't stand for the flag and anthem at graduation ceremonies. Interestingly, the Emperor - who is normally heavily marked by the government agency which runs his household and prevented from speaking on any controversial subject - made a point of telling a garden party guest within hearing of journalists that he thought this was nonsense. Hope HM takes the same line with Brown in their next meeting.