Cameron promises Sovereignty Act

Publius

A cast-iron guarantee then?

Olly boy

Yes but this treaty is self amending so I don't see how we can have a vote on the further loss of power to the EU.

Verity

" ... whatever repatriation package that the Tories manage to negotiate once in government."

Is he mad?

What Olly Boy said.

Sir Graphus

This is the best that can be done in the circumstances.

A referendum on a ratified treaty is not practical at all. We are where we are and it’s gutting that we can do nothing about it.

Frankly, I cannot believe the gall of Brown/Blunkett’s taunting Dave on the “cast iron guarantee”; it was they who promised the referendum, and it was they who ratted on that pledge. I’d be keeping my mouth well shut if I were them. At least 5 of the 12 points that they trail in the polls are due to their referendum betrayal, and they ought not to be reminding the public of what they’ve done. Mind you, I’d have preferred a bit more pluck from Dave; attack is the best form of defence.

TomTom

How can you have a Sovereignty Act ? Germany has a Grundgesetz from 1949 which bans the delegation of sovereign powers to outside agencies and a Verfassungsgericht to uphold that Basic Law.

Britain has a Supreme Court which is a subset of the ECJ because it has no written constitution to uphold and it can strike down any British Sovereignty Act using the interpretative powers of the Lisbon Treaty to declare any such Act in Non-Conformity with EU Law.

The British System is a Sovereign Parliament which has made itself subject to The European Council because The Executive has decreed it and The Executive is omnipotent in the British System

Amadeus Plonquer

Why are you couching this issue as though it were a factional Tory issue. It isn't. This is an issue bnetween those who claim to govern us and those of us who choose who we elect.

If this - or the next - government can't solve this problem then we'll find others who can.

Period.

2trueblue

Verity, Brown/Blair denied us the referendum, they had the power. Then Blair gave away our rebate, presumably to oil the wheels of his presidency. You got the wrong man when using the word oily.

So far we have seen noting out of Labour to protect us. The Germans were away ahead of the curve and have protected themselves. Labour have had 12yrs and all they have done is leave the UK in a terrible state. Who wants another term of then????? You moght not be affected as you have moved out, we have to live with it.
I would rather anything than another day longer than need be of this present shower. Think of something positive or have you no other raison d'etre than to attack Cameron on a daily basis?

Yow Min Lye

Meanwhile, the ratchet that is surrendering of British sovereignty has just clicked up another few dozen notches.

Michael St George

Just four words - stable door, horse, bolted.

Oh, and a fifth - treason

Peter

It's a done deal and there is little more he can do, other than a referendum on whether we want to stay in or withdraw.

He should vow to withhold all payments until the EU's accounts are signed off.

But however much people bleat on about his guarantees to hold a referendum and try to tar him with the Blair/Brown brush the situation is entirely different. And with this government's connivance the EU has got exactly what it wanted all along.

David Lindsay

A complete red herring. Lisbon is self-amending.

Laban Tall

Speaking from just outside the stable, new trainer Mr Cameron acknowledged that prize racehorse National Sovereignty had gone before he arrived, but assured the public that new, stronger bolts and locks would be fitted at once. Should the horse ever reappear, he pledged, the door would not be left open again.

Ex-Tory voter

"his party’s manifesto will not contain a commitment to a referendum on whatever repatriation package that the Tories manage to negotiate once in government" My vote will not contain any commitment to a party that tries to fudge the issue. Lisbon is self-amending. Weaselly words like those quoted above are meaningless. The question now is in or out. Such a referendum is perfectly feasible. I'll be looking for a party that will offer it.

echo34

if lisbon is self amending, surely that indicates that states can have an effect on its contents therefore it could be watered down if the will is there.

TomTom

Are you in a Skinner Box echo34 ? What do you mean "states" ? They do not exist de jure since they have ceded sovereign powers to The European Union which has its President, European Council and Foreign Office....the European Union now changes the Constitution and does not require town councils in Westminster or elsewhere to approve.

It is a Sovereign State alongside the USA and Russia and will probably soon have its own Security Council seat when Brazil or India take ours.

Brown is the last British Prime Minister using royal prerogative; henceforth the European Council is the main body running Europe with The Commission. Be interesting to see how they will levy their federal taxes

Verity

2TrueBlue - "I would rather anything than another day longer than need be of this present shower."

Be careful of what you wish for. Cameron would be worse.

If we let them stagger on for a few months after the election, Dave will be sacked, New Leader, vote of No Confidence. Labour gone, probably forever, and Conservative PM.

Frank P

2trueblue “I would rather anything than another day longer than need be of this present shower. Think of something positive or have you no other raison d'etre than to attack Cameron on a daily basis?”

I'm pretty certain that none of the CH conservative dissenters relish the thought of ‘another day longer than need be of this present shower’ either. (I would have added “of shit” to that sentence and even then it’s not strong enough to adequately lambaste the traitors who have sold us out.

But, and it’s a big but: what can Cameron do now to reverse the damage that Blair, Brown, Mandleson and all their co-conspirators have wreaked on this country? Precious little it seems, if his four o’clock exposition today is any guide.

When boiled down to substance, he’ll bolt the door of the empty stable and then padlock it as well. And he’ll tell the new owners of all the horses that they won’t be able to steal any more of our horses. Big deal when we haven’t got any more horses, just horseshit that he is showering on the English people.

His silence during the theft/sell-off of our heritage and sovereignty has been deafening. We knew NuLab’s agenda – part leftist ideological, part gravy train: jobs for the boys. The excuse for that silence – ‘he must keep his powder dry and his cards close his chest lest Brown & Co steal his thunder and peek at his hand’ – was stupid – even if true, which I now doubt.

Stupid, because someone has now pissed on his powder and stolen his cards by ratifying the treaty before a UK election. So it has been a rout, as anybody with any foresight could have told him. We must therefore infer that he knew that anyway and that the ratification of Lisbon Treaty suits the Tory hierarchy, even though it infuriates the majority of patriotic conservative voters.

This magazine has backed closer ties with Europe, despite the wishes of its loyal readership. Its owners would seem to have more extra territorial interests than British interests. They help to finance the Tory party. I’m sure many other moguls have similar off-shore interests.

I no longer have any faith in any of the mainstream parties to look after Britain’s interests in general and England’s in particular. Cameron is a shill. Verity is right. Though it pains me to say it, it would be better in some ways for Labour to be left to pick up its own mess; to have to scrabble in its own scorched earth.

Another election would follow rapidly, then real conservatives rather than troughers could build a new party to repatriate our sovereignty, impose sensible immigration laws and start afresh. A bonfire of the vanities on November 5th please. We're in deep shtuck and, after today's showing, Davey boy is exposed as just another EU facilitator, with what Verity believes is both ideological and gravy-train motivation? I tend to agree with her about both.

General Zod

Verity becomes more ridiculous by the day: "Cameron would be worse" than Brown and the Labour shower? The ravings of a lunatic.

What more do you want? Nukes launched at Brussels?

Richard Manns

Ladies and Gentlemen,
First of all, you forget the principle of Paliamentary Sovereignty, which Mr Hannan has mentioned in his blog: simply, Parliament cannot sign anything that it cannot unsign. Acts, treaties, etc.

But what about the practicalities, you say? Well, it's fairly easy to gauge that: watch the vituperative language from the French and Germans. They seem to react if you ruffle their feathers, and there's been some serious ruffling recently. When a Frenchman starts talking about castration, you know he's doesn't like what he sees. Had it not mattered, the Germans and French would never have shoved their oars in to be so offensive to an incoming government.

Frank P

Daniel Hannan has just fired his first shot across Cameron's bows. Interesting!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/6504497/Daniel-Hannan-resigns-from-European-Parliament-post.html

He has obviously adjudged that Dave has shot himself in the foot and figures that he'll lose the election and as a consequence the leadership of the party. He's a great dissident. Would he make a great leader? And who would back him? Discuss.

Despite his erstwhile backing of Obama, I would vote Tory if he were to win the leadership of the party. The rot has set in for Obama anyway; pity our blogosphere campaign before the US election was ineffective, but Glenn Beck and Fox in general have now run with the Obama antecedents and Marxist associates we adduced last year and are sticking it to him. He's a one termer.

Frank P

General Zod

Nukes launched on Bruxelles?

Nah, far too close to home. Despite the prevailing westerlies, we could easily get some fall-out. What an excitable fellow you are! All we are asking is that the unelected bureaucrats there get the hell out of our affairs. Doesn't seem an unreasonable request to me. Mind you if they don't soon desist, a couple of nights of Bomber Harris style blanket bombing should do the fucking trick. Why don't you piss off back to your day job of kissing the boy David's hairless ring, you cretin. I'll bet you had an orgasm today as he delivered his latest 'assurances' to his devoted and credulous disciples. Sovereignty Act, my arse! What sovereignty is left after twelve years of the Long March stamping on all the carpets of the corridors of power? Sure you're not General Nod! Wake up FFS!

General Zod

Frank, you are a true vulgarian. Thanks for the laugh.

saddleworth

If there is a majority in favour of leaving the EC (and most polling shows there is) its voice will never be heard voluntarily by any politicians in Brussels or Westminster. If the electorate are to refused democratic solutions, as they consistently have, civil disobedience is the only answer.