LIVE: Cameron's Europe speech

Jez

This is all bullsh*t.

Publius

"Every treaty and European reform will be placed before the people."

The Croatia accession treaty, for example?

MartSharn

Unfortunately Cameron is implicitly agreeing with the content of Lisbon.

He should simply say we'll ignore the parts of Lisbon we don't like. Then it will be Europe's move. When push comes to shove, what can they do? We are a net contributor so we have nothing to lose and plenty to gain (back).

Very thin ice indeed.

Verityred

Fair play to Cameron in the circumstances, plus highlighting Labour and the Lib Dems rotten role in all this.

CJH

Have to agree with Jez. Feel utterly let down once again by Dave and his crew. My vote now finally gone.

Chris lancashire

Looks like Cameron is getting it right again. It is indisputable that the No.1 priority is to clear up Labour's horrendous financial mess.

Jo

Finally the Tories point out that Labour are the ones who have broken the promise of a referendum. It seems debatable whether the Constitution was a constitution in the traditional sense, but as the Lisbon treaty is a rewording of the constitution as presented there is no reasonable and honourable reason to deny a referendum on the treaty. Why have the Tories been so silent on pointing out Labour's broken promise?

TrevorsDen

The merde is all yours jez

David Ossitt

He blames the other two!

But he promised and now he is breaking his promise.

It has been said that only 30% of the wider electorate are in favour of the EU.

What percentage of support is there within the conservative party?

It will probably be far less.

Politicians; can not get away with lying to the people indefinitely, in the end; truth will out.

David Cameron is standing on thin ice; he should listen to his sceptics.

The Gateless Gate

There is a credibility gap - until this is addressed by giving the public a referendum on Europe the Tories will flounder.

Amadeus Plonquer

'The Tories will reform the European Communities Act to ensure that such a betrayal never happens again.'

Nowhere near enough, DC. We want the damage UNDONE. And if you can't do it we'll find another who will. UKIP sound better every day. Don't take the British people for mugs.

Martyn Rowe

Cameron has played this well.

The EU is a deliberately complex institution and therefore a complex issue to tackle.

Labour are hoping that the Tories will dive straight into the trap of rejecting the Lisbon Treaty and holding a pointless referendum. Cameron is cleverer than that.

DC knows he must play the long game, play it cleverly, be as complex and awkward in his dealings with them as they are with us -fight a gentlemanly fight over every issue, make them know he means business.

If he'd gone into this gung-ho he would've been pulled apart by lawyers, Euro politicians and the media, lost all the credibility and would've needed to backtrack.

What is important now is that the party bites its lip and doesn't agitate. If Labour gains to traction over Europe, then Cameron is home and hosed in an election. Then he'll have the mandate to take the fight to Europe.

MartSharm

So, not only does he not object to Lisbon, he wants Turkey in? So a vote for Dave is a vote for a mosque on every corner. Oops.

Nick

Jo wrote:

"Why have the Tories been so silent on pointing out Labour's broken promise?"

Comments like this really beggar belief. Where have you been for the last two years ? There hasn't been a single discussion about Europe without Cameron and other Tory MPs berating Labour for not fulfilling their manifesto pledge to hold a referendum.

Extremely impressive speech and policy from Cameron.

Paul B

That was good stuff by DC, practical. pragmatic, straight and honest. You cannot un-invent the wheel and the Lisbon is with us, fact. Having a referendum on it will be a waste of time and money. He was wrong to promise such a vote two years ago, but it was an honest mistake and he has not been deceitful to the electorate, unlike Brown.

Yes the fantasists in the party will despise him all the more, but they are no more than an annoying rash, just like their comrades on the far left. The BBC reported today that the British public, placed the EU as 12th on their list of priorities. I think that's about right, most are trying to feed their children and heat their homes and get on with real life, rather about esoteric policy nuances.

Mike

Little Nigel Farage will be pissed tonight, Christmas has just come early for UKIP.

Roger Parkin

excellent response from cameron. very realistic. why do people accuse him of a 'u turn' on a referendum, he only ever promised one on a treaty which now no longer exists?

Lee Jakeman

This is all excellent stuff - it will alienate the public totally, making them realise that only revolution can save us.

2trueblue

Shame old Gordon didn't let us have the full shilling.
Good for Cameron to come up with the plan to tie up some areas where we can safeguard ourselves. As said before the Germans were ahead of the curve protecting themselves.
Shame all our noisy Labour lot could not look out for us at all. They could have made some effort especially as they knew they were not going to allow the referendum.

Fergus Pickering

Oh God. UKIP. UKIP is full of dreadful old farts who want women tied to the kitchen sink, homosexuals shot on sight, etc etc. Farage is a good act and I like Marta, though I'll bet she has no idea how much the UKIP faithful hate her for being a woman and being foreign, but the party is about as credible as a party as the Greens or the BNP, by which I mean not credible at all. Those of you who want to vote UKIP, you just bugger off and do it. My vore goes for smooth Boy Dave. All he has to do now is to save a maiden from rape by filthy foreign hordes. On yer bike, boy!

Tradebot

I find it unbelievable that Dave gets the rap from some you people for "breaking his promise" on the European referendum. Simply said , we could vote "no" until kingdom come but it would still not have any effect. Better to keep our gunpowder dry and lobby for a proper in-or-out referendum in the future.

After all, it was not the Tories who signed off this horrible treaty, thereby breaking an election pledge!

IH

I keep seeing "oh that's it then, I'm voting Ukip" - as if they have a chance in hell of governing - so you vote Ukip then what? I would love to know.

Jez

Fous le camp, TrevorsDen. Fous le camp.

Minimal. That's the important word here.

'This is all Bullsh*t', is only four words yet it explains extactly where (in my opinion) Ravey Davey Cameron is coming from.

Ok. How many words is Cameron going come out with above? 1000, 2000 or even 3000?

3000 words to say 'this is all bullsh*t'.

Wasteful.

Irene

Anyone with half a brain knows that this dishonest Labour government has to go.
There is only one alternative and that is Conservative - most sensible people know that. Ukip can huff and puff but will get know where IMO

Publius

Labour are going to find it difficult to oppose a British Sovereignty Act. And Labour are not going to win votes opposing the primacy of British law or of Parliament.

As for the accession of Croatia treaty, which ties in the "concessions" to Ireland, clearly this will be a lever.

On self-amending aspects of Lisbon, it sounds like Cameron is saying that a sovereignty act will stipulate that any amendment must be put to the people.

I await details.

Republican Tory

For those who keep saying "he promised" GROW UP and read what he ACTUALLY said NOT what you WANTED to hear two years ago when Lisbon was able to be voted on.

Yes his statement has holes in it, yes I would like to have seen it go further (why not use Trident on Brussels- we never use them for anything else)But it is a START so instead of throwing your toys out of the pram, get out there and help get eurosceptic Tories elected. I have told my MP " oppose Brussels or in 4 years time I will oppose you" For Gods sake give them a chance of 4 years to turn the tide, if they fail then we can kick them out but they are our best option at the moment.

Publius

"I think that's about right, most are trying to feed their children and heat their homes and get on with real life, rather about esoteric policy nuances."

-- Oh, please! Don't give me the "most people" bollocks.

Publius

@Roger Parkin
"he only ever promised one on a treaty which now no longer exists?"

Think of it this way. It's rather like fighting to regain your freedom when it "no longer exists". Pointless to some. Noble to others.

Jane Holmes

Martyn Rowe - absolutely.

Paul D

Sensible stuff from Cameron. As Martyn Rowe says this has to played out over a long time.

All the headbangers who still drain on about a referendum are ignoring the facts. It's already happened - the Treaty is ratified so now we have to deal with it.

The first thing is to make sure that a Conservative government is elected with a strong mandate to renegotiate our position in Europe. Every vote for UKIP is a wasted vote in this context - you'll feel smug for 5 seconds at having stuck one up at the LabLibCons parties and then you'll go back home and you'll realise that nothing has happened and you have thrown your vote away.

If you want a referendum on the Treaty why stop there? Let's have lots of referenda on past Treaties - let's start with Versailles and then what about Yalta?

Anyway, making Britain solvent again is a first term priority.

Herbert Thornton

Empty words from Cameron because even if he means what he says - which is doubtful because he is so weak - and because there is so little to negotiate, and in any case Europe will not concede an inch.

The only thing that will work is a referendum asking if British people want to be free from the E.U., followed - assuming the referendum shows that is what the British people want - by unilateral withdrawal.

UKIP has some attractions, but the danger is that UKIP will merely take votes from some Tories whereas the BNP will take votes away from both the Tories and Labour.

The best thing would be for UKIP and the BNP to agree not to oppose each other - i.e. agree that no constituency has both a UKIP and a BNP candidate.

After unilateral withdrawal, there is something to be said for agreeing a trading association with Europe, similar to the arrangement between the E.U. and Norway.

But there is also a great deal to be said for complete independence - see the excellent example of Japan.

Fragmeister

I got this from the Prime Minister in my in-box tonight.

http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page21213

My vote goes to Dave

General Zod

Phew, the sensible people are back on CH.

Well done, David.

Herbert, you still make no sense. What exactly do you think that the rest of Europe would give us if we withdrew from the EU? You clearly don't have an inkling of how difficult they could make life for us. Thousands of British companies could find it more difficult, more expensive or even impossible to do business around Europe almost immediately.

Pramston

In a General Election a vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour - if enough natural Tories go to UKIP we get Brown again. Enjoy that won't you!!

John Hall

General Zod
The EU does more trade with us than we do with them. They can't enter upon a protectionist spat as they'd ultimately be the greater losers. Nobody would gain from such an option being taken. Not all, not even the majority, of Anti-Lisbonites are anti trade with the EU but many do see an EFTA-type solution as per Norway or Switzerland as being the most desirable outcome.

General Zod

John Hall, you are forgetting financial services.

David Ossitt

Republican Tory

Is that not a misnomer?

No true Tory can be a republican.