The fierce urgency of education reform

Bob Frost

With all due respect it is a fact that intelligence is partially inheritable i.e. there is a strong correlation between parent's IQ and that of offspring.

There are further correlations between I.Q. and salary.

It would surely be strange if there were not a mismatch between the academic results of the offspring of high earners and low earners....

Rob Mason

Gove has to face facts on selection. If a school is oversubscribed it HAS to select. It has no choice. What will be its criteria? Now, the criteria is residence and a few other things. The problem will be greater in a free market. He should free schools to select on any criteria. Most will not but we need a few elite schools because the most able cannot function in ordinary schools. There is no critical mass. In a 1000 strong comp the best 10%, or 100 is spread over perhaps 50 classes. Streaming doesn't help because they are sill too few, isolated, prone to bullying and it is worse in bog standard comps where there is the greatest under performance.

Fortunately, human ability is normally distributed with a few very able, most in the middle and a few at the other end. Schools would reflect that with a few for the elite, most in the middle with little to choose between them and a few at the other end with enhanced vouchers. If we had a few residential schools we could get most of the thugs off the streets until they are 18, not getting into trouble or pregnant.

Teaching is far easier with selection. mixed ability forces reduction in standards because the teacher has to teach to the lowest ability because she cannot lose them. The more able then coast along. This doesn't happen in Eton. But is better for all abilities. Teaching to children of similar abilities is far more efficient whatever the ability level.

Battle 2807

Rob Mason: I am sorry, but I didnt understand a word you were saying.

Boudicca

You have the reason in your first paragraph .... "comprehensively."

Comprehensive secondary education has failed. It fails the brightest students and it fails the least academic. Until this is acknowledged and a 3-tier system of secondary schools is developed things are unlikely to improve. We need an

a) Academic Secondary choice (you could call it a grammar school if you want)
b) Technical Secondary choice
c) Vocational Secondary choice (you could call that a Secondary Modern if you want)

Lumping all and sundry together in huge, impersonal comprehensives doesn't work as the accumulated evidence of the past 40 years shows.

Beer Moth

"just how comprehensively the current system has failed."

Elegantly barbed James.

John Woolman

intelligence is not an acquired characteristic.....

Sir Graphus

The first step should be to outlaw mixed ability teaching beyond year 7

Ian Walker

Bob Frost: Science rule of thumb number 1; correlation is not causation.

To rule out environmental factors (intelligent parents influence on their children as they grow up) you'd have to separate a significant number of babies from their natural families at birth. Some people might not like the ethics of that experiment.

Colin Pritchard

My computer is showing this:

“Out of 75,000 children eligible for free school meals only 5,000 were even entered for A level. Of that 189, only 75 were boys. Yet in the same year Eton had 175 boys who got 3As at A level. One school with almost two and a half times as many boys getting 3As as the entire population of our poorest boys on benefit.”

Either the technology has got its knickers in a twist of the education of those writing for and/or editing the Specie these days is not what it used to be in my day.

I wonder if Boris could be persuaded to run his eye over things from time to time if he's not too busy rescuing damsels in distress.

Fergus Pickering

We have grammar schools in Kent. Our results are better than yours (taking into acount salary levels etc) but I think things would be better if we selected later. In Scotland they used to select at twelve. Public Schools select at fourteen, do they not? And they DO select. You can't go to Winchester just because you have the money. You have to pass the whatsit exam at a sufficiently high grade. Otherwise you have to make dso with Uppingham or wherever. So I suggest selection at fourteen. I think they do it like that in Germany. We re not the only country with a class system, of course we are not, but we are OBSESSED with class and I think that obsession is at the root of our educatioonal problems, which are really at the secondary level. The Primary Schools are all right and the good universities are all right. The Comprehensive secondary schools... well we all know, don't we? Of course I don't at first hand. I live in Kent you see. And in Kent we have...

Fernando

Colin, I agree that if anyone wanted an illustration of the poor standards in modern education the paragraph you quoted would provide it. The logic seems weak and where is the verb in the final sentence.

Woodbine Willy

James:
where does the Figure 189 come from?

michaelmph

“Out of 75,000 children eligible for free school meals only 5,000 were even entered for A level. Of that 189, only 75 were boys."

Which group of 189 was that? Back to school for you lad and no free school meals.

Michael

Victor Southern

It seems that a complete sentence is missing from this report of Gove's speech. It might read "Only 175 of those 5000 achieved 3 A grades at A level".

It may well be true that genetics have some bearing on this but I suspect the truth is that a grammar school offers an environment where "swots" are not derided and bullied. That allows brighter children to learn at their full potential. In many comprehensives they suffer and so tend to take on protective colouring. My own experience over a great many years show me that behaviour patterns are very different in private schools and grammars to those in comprehensives. Lastly, for many children in inner-city areas just getting through the day without being mugged is a blessing.

My old grammar school, now a college of something or the other, was in a poorish industrial town and of the 750 boys there I would guess that at least half came from poor households like mine. Very few failed and I know of at least 7 who went on to great success and renown [I was not amongst those].

So, perhaps, both nature and nurture are significant.

mac

Boudicca:

But the Croslandite comprehensive system hasn't really failed, you know; it's just that the required levels of 'fairness' and 'equality' haven't yet been imposed by the socialist philosophers who know far, far better what's best for children than those despicably reactionary parents (well, dammit, they're - snort - middle class, aren't they, so they must be misguided).

Ms Fiona Miller and Ms Melissa Benn regurgitate this "if only it were truly marxist" mantra with tiresome regularity in the Grauniad.

Gawain

Bob Frost. A correlation is not sufficient to claim a fact.

If your contention is correct it is the best argument I have heard for the abolishing of private schools. Since the children of high IQ parents have such natural advantages, they obviously don't need the privelages and resources of private schooling. It would be better for the country if the talented teachers and the investment in private schools were used to ameliorate the social problem that Gove has identified. The children of high IQ children will be fine because they're more intelligent.

Peter From Maidstone

When I transferred to Grammar School in Maidstone back in the 70s we moved schools at 13. I spent two years in a 'High School' and then transferred at the beginning of the 3rd year. I can't remember any 1st or 2nd years being at school all the time I was there into the early 80s. So I am not sure when it reverted to a 1st year intake. There was a wide range of social backgrounds represented in my time there. I am sure not sure we even thought of it as academically elitist. I still tell a friend of mine that he was in the 'sporty' class for those who were not so bright. We weren't well off by any means and both my parents were from poor backgrounds but had worked hard to improve their situation.

Ian Wiseman

Ian Walker: Bob Frost appears to be correct. Separated twin studies suggest intelligence is largely inherited. See for example :
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1520-iq-is-inherited-suggests-twin-study.html

General Zod

Presumably 189 out of the 5000 got 3 As. There is a sentence missing. Logic will help you to fill in the gap.

jon ryan

Where is the point in keeping in school children who have no wish to be there, nor who will derive any signifacant benefit from it?

Why not let such, let's be kind here and call them `less academically abled` to use approriate edu-babble, pupils leave school and start to earn. Rather than subsidising them at schools, subsidise them at places of work - apprentice them - at 14. This gets the msot disruptive out of the classroom, allows both teachers and pupils to concentrate on academic work rather than stopping Wayne throttling Cuthbert for being a swot. It would also bring the thuggy kids into conact with a bunch of cynical brickies and tyre changers who would not put up with what teachers have to put up with. So they would get some discipline. They would also have some money in their pockets. This would give them some self respect, a sense of worth that school cannot provide, as well as a salable trade: something of infinately grater valu that wot skool provids toda.

Arthur

"Logic will help you fill in the gap".

Yes, but only if you went to a good school.

Nicholas

Oh, dear, grammar schools proved their effectiveness over several centuries of British social mobility and then the Labour class-warriors came along and decided (as they do) that they know better.

Result. Education system in crisis and a general promotion of ignorance.

Churchill's "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" is never more appropriate than when applied to Labour's "comprehensive" education system which in half a lifetime has managed to unravel the continuously developed threads and rot the fruits of centuries of hard work, idealism, genuine philanthropy and aspiration.

Dirty Euro

My issues is that right wing reform is not the answer to this. Right wing reform would make this even worse.
It is the tories and elitists who want to cut the number of university places.

Dirty Euro

How would cutting places at university help solve this issue then? That just means even less poor people going to university.
These are just crocodile tears form the right.

Patricia Shaw

Until Gove can assure us that he will progress the educational advantages of ALL children, including Muslims, he cannot be trusted as Education Secretary.

Such a heavy leaning towards Zionism is unhealthy in a man who aspires to a position designed to advantage society as a whole.

Any Colour but Brown

Your later blog (compulsory sex education) shows the desperate need for reform, before our esteemed Govt can Balls it all up even more than it is now.

General Zod

Dirty Euro, university place expansion has been used by this government as a means to hide unemployment. Record numbers of students now fail to achieve a degree.

The problem needs to be adddressed by introducing more suitable education and training for those unsuited to university. That means actually addressing the problem though rather than just pretending that any educational establishment for the over 18s is a university.

Simon Denis

Rob Mason is absolutely right. Selection is the answer. The left's true reason for abolishing it was to impose a tax on middle class intelligence, which it saw as just another aspect of "unfair advantage". Their pseudo technocratic jargon - that mixed ability allows talent to percolated down among the proles - has been decisively discredited. The fact that Comprehensives are now trying to set and stream gives the game away completely. Selection can, moreover, be extended - to talent of all kinds; meanwhile, specialism, catering to gifts in abundance or scarcity, will help all. It is time to bring this in. It is time to end the communist nightmare that is British state education.

Woodbine Willy

Dirty Euro and others -
The increase in university places simply means that many graduates are no better placed to compete for jobs than an avegae 18-year-old with three a levels was a generation or two ago. But they're three years older and deep in debt.
Some benefit

General Zod: "Logic will help you to fill in the gap."
That approach might wash if you're marking GCSE papers...

Dirty Euro

Nicholas Grammar schools! what are you on about! They are just a way of dividing working and middle class people into grammars for the middle and secondary modern for the working classes. It is the opposite of helping everyone. It is a way of keeping people down and divided. Also what about people who good at maths and bad at english do they go to grammar school for maths and secondary modern for english it is an insane logic.

General Zod So you a university snob. There is no difference in a first class honours from oxford or Cambridge or any other university. If you want to proove you are more intellgent get a masters or phd do not expect other people to pretend to be dumber than they really are so you can find it easier. Record numbers are getting degrees to. Stop trying to make people think they are dumber than they really are. The fact more people are doing degrees should push the super bright to to mscs and phd's. We do not need your dumb down the averages to make the brighter one feel smarter.

John Bowman

So there is a correlation between free school meals and exam results. How scientific.

What were the exam results for children who paid for their dinner?

The logical fallacy here is that free school meals are taken by "the poor" and "the poor" exclusively because they are "poor" do not perform well educationally.

Which is interesting since the UK's wealth bulge - "the better off" - all came from the ranks of the poor in the days when people who did not think of themselves as "poor" had considerably less than those who are "poor" in current times.

In science correlation is no evidence of causal link.

People who perform badly at school are thick irrespective of wealth.

General Zod

Dirty Euro, I don't believe that even you believe the propaganda you just typed. I don't think anybody actually believes that a first from London Metropolitan University is equivalent to a first from Cambridge.

I interview undergraduates for graduate trainee positions every year. I reject Oxbridge firsts sometimes, but overall the Oxbridge and other top university candidates are in a different league from the rest.

General Zod

"Also what about people who good at maths and bad at english do they go to grammar school for maths and secondary modern for english it is an insane logic."

Up to GCSE level, those who are appreciably better than average at mathematics will on the whole also be appreciably better than average at English.

That is why the old 11+ tested both.

Fergus Pickering

Dirty Euro you live in a world of your own. Of course a first class degree from Oxford is better than one from the University of Central England. Even the UCE knows that. But I supose I am wasting my breath. Oh, and a first class degree of thirty years ago is better than a first class degree of now. In those days 10% of people got them. Nowadays 20% get them. QE bloody D.

Karl Marx

I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out that I am one of those 189 teenagers to get 3As at A level. I actually got 4. But I have no place at university...

Dirty Euro

Fergus Pickering and General Zod you talk rubbish. A first at Oxford is the same as a first at ICE or wherever. End of story. That may irritate you but is the truth. Stop your reverse class warfare drivel. The universities all have the same standards for exams. They are not in different countries. Grow up.

Beer Moth

Dirty Euro

I think you are being unfair here. No-one is trying to make you look dumber than you really are.

General Zod

Karl Marx, that is shocking. Even with the mess made of the system by this government I cannot believe that you won't get a place next year with 4 As at A level.

Fearless Frank

DE: A first at Oxford is the same as a first at ICE or wherever,

Yes but isn't it funny how an Oxford degree opens doors that remain impervious to a First from the university of Tufnell Park.

Nicholas

"They are just a way of dividing working and middle class people into grammars for the middle and secondary modern for the working classes. It is the opposite of helping everyone. It is a way of keeping people down and divided. Also what about people who good at maths and bad at english do they go to grammar school for maths and secondary modern for english it is an insane logic."

Absolute tripe - an in your case regurgitated tripe of the worse class warfare kind. Thank you though for reminding us all just why it is that the Labour party manages to remain at 27% in the polls.

Dirty Euro

Frank One word, Contacts!

Beer Moth Is there not a bit of alcoholic wool for you to chew on.

Nicholas You have no argument.

Cogito Ergosum

I am astounded. There is another coffee-houser who understands the science of statistics: Rob Mason 7.15pm 5th Nov.

OK, here are some more stats. The average IQ is 100, the standard deviation 15, in a near-Gaussian distribution. So about one-sixth will have an IQ greater than 115, another one-sixth less than 85, and about two-thirds between 85 and 115.

There are about 600,000 children born each year, so about 100,000 with IQ > 155 who should be in a grammar school. If each grammar school admitted 100 children per year, as mine did, that means 1,000 grammar schools are needed.

We currently have ca 160. This is a stupendous gulf between what we have and what we need. Tory policy is blind to this, and will be a disaster.

Schools should be planned in groups of six: one grammar, four midstream, and one special needs. Any other policy is simply ignoring the reality of what human children are.

Nicholas

Dirty Euro: Nicholas You have no argument.

And you do? You just spout inane class warfare drivel based on prejudice and envy on behalf of the comrades. Your "analysis" of grammar schools is simplistic tripe. You should try some real history rather than just regurgitating the garbage you were obviously brought up on by your Labour voting parents, communist brainwashing teachers and the other socialist influences who helped put those ridiculous last century class warfare chips on your shoulders.

And from first hand experience I know of plenty of intelligent working class lads who went to grammar schools and made successes of their lives and careers.

jon ryan

@Cogito Ergosum 11.49. Quod erat demonsrandum. Now can you explain to our Masters why we need fewer, better universities? (sorry, I can't do that bit in Latin)

Cogito Ergosum

Thank you, Jon Ryan 7.35am.

From my grammar school about two-thirds of us went on to university. Extrapolated nationally, that would imply two-thirds
of 100,000 children; that is about 67,000 university places a year, or 11% of the 600,000 born each year. Not the fatuous
Blair target of 50%. It corresponds to an IQ greater than 120.

An apology for a typo in my original piece: in the third paragraph "about 100,000 with IQ greater than 115" - not 155.