Positive polls for Cameron’s European policy

Vulture

'He cannot afford to break that promise' - why not? he has already broken his promise to 'hold a referendum on any treaty that comes out of these negotiations'.

Cameron has all the backbone of a sponge and he will govern - if at all - entirely at the behest of our unelected EU masters, possibly with his foreign policy guided by David Millipede.

The fact that the British public - aided by a compliant media ( with the honourable exception of the Mail and Mel) don't see
this is a matter of shame, not pathetic self-congratulation.

Meanwhile, Dave's little chumette, the egregious trougher Julie Kirkbride has already broken HER promise: not to stand again at the election, and -incredibly- is offering her unlovely self to the voters of Bromsgrove once more.

Clearly she suddenly feels comfortable that breaking promises is now official Tory party policy.

Watt Tyler

If you go and read Dr Richard North et al as I did, you will discover that David Camerons European colleagues have alreday begun to state their objections to renegotiations, to wit: it ain't going to happen.

David Cameron WILL have to fall back on hinted vote. But he won't, and that is why he only hinted at it. He doesn't want to be seen to break a promise.

About the polls: it just shows that we are still hoodwinked, nothing else. What the bravest journalists, and you mentioned one of the best in the land, need to do is to exlain to people the nature of the hoodwinkery! Anything else is craven betrayal.

Stepney

Look at the non-Tory segments wanting a referendum! Some meaty food for thought there for both the non-democratic Labour party and the rabid europhile sandal wearers.

The real eye catcher is the 66% of those of no party allegiance...

Ben Stevenson

I am not convinced that this poll is very good for David Cameron. Apparently 42% of people think he has broken a promise. That is 42% of people who think they have a reason to not trust him.

Sacre Bleu

There is a third question to my mind to this survey. "Having promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, the Labour government did not do so - aided and abetted by the LibDems. It is now law. Do you see this as a broken promise or as a fair adaption of a manifesto promise?"

ed hall

Nonsense. The new "policy" is a disaster.
Get out of the bubble.
Cameron is a busted flush and if Labour weren't so pathetic they would probably win the next election.

JONNY

Vulture, I find this Sunday School stuff about broken promises rather quaint.
Naughty boy, stand in the corner.
But wait a mo - isn't it something they all do? Part and parcel of the loathsome business of being a politician.
Along with spin, lies, deception, skulduggery, and forging expenses.

Why pick on Cameron? He's a promise-breaking novice pygmy compared with the likes of Brown, Blair, Straw, Miliband et al.

Frank P

Who rigged up this spurious bullshit? You people need to get out of the Westminster bubble, move around and speak to some ordinary folk.

Watt Tyler

@JONNY

The fact that you have such low expectations is a pity, but probably not your fault. We have had, and continue to have a political class that lives in a state of resignation, always convinced that things will get worse. The question they pose to themselves is how to manage the decay.

What we need are leaders who don't lie, who don't abandon principle for political expediency. We want leaders who can fight the decay, who say, yes, we can achieve to our potential ablity, and who recognise the methods of governence required to achieve this.

I expect this of my leaders. I learnt the other day that Cameron is not the type of leader that a free-born Englishman wants or needs.

Vulture

@JONNY, You are quite right. I am being idiotically naive in expecting our honourable representatives to have a shred of honesty in their benighted souls. I certainly knew that Bliar, Bruin, Bollox and Mandelslime and the rest of their putrid clique were rotten to the core. I now see that I was ridiculously optimistic in hoping that any of the Tories would be any different. The scales have fallen from my eyes : they are ALL a bunch of lying twats. There - that's cleared the air.

Alan Phillips

I won't join in with the Bash Cam from within the Tory camp, IMO Dave is a realist and the IN/OUT option Referendum is something he could hint to the EU should they continue with the Brown Agreement.

It strikes me that first and foremost people want this country sorting out first, as displayed by anybody the left leaning brigade. They have to oppose everything DC throws into the ring, and hope something catches the ideals of the UK public to create a dividing line. As long as Bliar isn't the EU President, we as a country have the chance to get the besyt of both world, a few things back and the will of the country to work with Europe for the future. The Opt out question, is like having a septic leg, you don't chop it off until the options have been exhausted. You can't grow another, just as we need to debate the merits of being out of the loop. No Britain in Brussels, I can't see protectionism not appearing on their agenda after waving us goodbye in the docks of LeHarve.

Rainer Unsinn

"Vulture
'He cannot afford to break that promise' - why not? he has already broken his promise to 'hold a referendum on any treaty that comes out of these negotiations'. "
Explain to me, very simply, what a referendum on the ratification of an already ratified treaty would get us?
Apart from spending millions, which would be better spent on reducing Britain's debt, albeit minimally, of course

Tyranosaurus

Wonderfull to see how devoid of ironry the "labour party supporters" are - apparently 60% of them think that DC should continue to push for a referendum while conveniently forgetting that their man has already signed the thing. Also 12% of them somehow manage to hold the view that DC should have a referendum but that they don't want it. With that kind of logic, it is no wonder that GB still manages mid 20s in opinion polls rather than the 0% his performance warrants.

Verity

Vulture - Endorse. every. word. you. wrote. The man is as sleazy as Tony Blair, but without that disquieting lazy eye.

It was terribly obvious, over the couple of weeks previous to the announcement that our surrender was a done deal, that he was equivocating so no one could hold him to a definite promise. I thought no one in public life in Britain could be as sleazy as Blair, Mandelson, Jack Straw and Jacqui Smith, but live and learn.

Rainer Unsinn

I'm not sure how PH came to their results, but I get a slightly different answer.
A broken promise 42
A fair adaptation 52
Don't know 6

Should read

A broken promise 40
A fair adaptation 54
Don't know 6

This assumes that there are no votes counted that don't appear in the table.

patrickinken

Pity PoliticsHome did not ask whether the government's decision not to hold a referendum on Lisbon was a broken promise.

Obviously PoliticsHome is controlled by a Labour supporter.

Augustus

John Locke's political philosophy was very straightforward. The state's power and existence is due entirely to the will of the people. But that power can be retrieved by the people. And when can that power be retrieved? Simple. Whenever the state misuses its right and takes away people's
liberty. Then the people have every right to
revolt. A state which takes freedom away from the people undermines its own legitimacy. The more a state takes away freedom, the more it asks to be reprimanded by its people. The people who stand above it
and whom it is supposed to serve.

Chris lancashire

Well done Cameron. Sensible response to changed circumstances. It was amusing to watch slimy Hain on QT last night attempting to sling mud over this when he's already covered in it.
And for those contemplating voting UKIP or, even more astonishingly, LibDem, just remember what 13 years of New Labour has brought us - uncountable broken promises and a bankrupt nation.

Naomi Muse

The people who should be blamed for breaking an election promise are the government.

In all the doublespeak how can the opposition hold a referendum at all - they are not in a position to do so?

'It was a good decision' Brown is the one to blame, and his future in Europe or the US is what he currently has his eyes on whatever happens to the UK.

ChrisP

Ben Stevenson - If you take the 25% Labour Supporters and 15% Lib Dems you are at 40% already - that is the way our system works.

Frank P - just because the poll result doesnt meet your worldview hardly makes it spurious - have you got proof?

Just goes to show that treading the centre course is always the wisest option.

TomTom

The proof of the pudding.....as they say....has more than 1167 people contacted by Email. Cameron has zero traction in Northern England and even less now so Labour and Tory voters switched off will go UKIP, BNP, Abstention Party.

That means Cameron will lack any mandate for public spending cuts

McKenzie

Are Speccie readers really this moronic, or is this article just for conversion purposes?

Sir Graphus

1. Someone wrote that Cameron’s new EU policy is like installing a new burglar alarm after the robbery.
This was meant as a criticism, but actually, it’s the best that can be done. Having a referendum now would be effectively having a vote about whether we’d prefer not to have been burgled.
Well, Cameron hasn’t been in charge of security for these last dozen years, and in fact the present security guards brazenly ushered the burglars in through the open window.

John David Barnett

Poor old Vulture. His bilious comments almost write themselves!

Im suspect that Mr Cameron is as Eurosceptic as the majority of the Party, but his plan is a little more subtle than the bull at a gate crazies can grasp.

I trust him.

John David Barnett

Frank P

I spoke to a few "ordinary folk" a day or two ago. The minute I mentioned the Lisbon treaty, their eyes glazed over.

Most people are underwhemlmed by the whole thing.

John Bowman

Why no question Do you want a referendum on UK staying in the EU, I wonder?

strapworld

We have to move on. I find the absolute hypocrisy of the Labour party and its craven politicians pointing fingers at Cameron and saying he broke a promise, quite disgraceful. It IS that party aided and abetted by the liberal democrats who have created the situation where our beloved country has been sold down the river.

We should really turn our anger at those two parties. In those parts of the country where the labour party have a good majority the Conservative Party should have posters throughout telling the people the truth. Labour has given this country away! similarly in the Lib Dem area's.

I want a Parliament without a Labour or Lib Dem MP. If that means the BNP are elected so be it. If that means that empty barrel, Farage,is elected so be it. But these politicians have got to learn.

If such a thing could be attained - it happened in Canada!-
the I consider that Cameron will realise that he will have to give us a referendum on IN or OUT sooner rather than later.

There again, what about starting a new party. The Coffee House Party!

With sensible policies such as Banning the Labour and Liberal Democratic Parties! Restoring the Death penalty (That's two fingers to the EU!) and charging Blair, Brown and Clegg et al with War Crimes and Treason. A Flat tax system. Banning all road camera's, Making police walk the beat, Sentences to be served IN FULL absolutely no remission! No further immigration and any young muslim with a UK Passport who may go to Pakistan/Afghanistan for training purposes, will have to go into a two year quarantine when they return! Those without a UK passport will be returned to Pakistan. Lastly a return of National Service in the armed services for three years without any exception!

Quite reasonable policies I believe they may get some support!!

General Zod

Sell your tax policy to the BNP and you have your ideal party, strapworld.

Vulture

@ John David Barnett 'I trust him' (Dave).
I can only say, JDB, that your trust is deeply touching. And deeply misplaced.

I tell you who I trust. This week I've met, drunk and broken bread with a Field-Marshal, a General, and a Colonel. To a man they spoke plainly, honestly and did not dissimulate. They are what Britain's leaders used to be like. To a man they dissed Dave for screwing the country in his Bliar-lite way.
He is a pathetic example of a degraded and dishonest political class.

It's a great pity that Britain does not do military coups. The Army are about the only depository of courage and honour left in this shabby shard of a once great land.

Yours biliously, Vulture.

JONNY

'The man is as sleazy as Tony Blair'

She gets wilder and wilder and wilder.

JONNY

' To a man they dissed Dave for screwing the country in his Bliar-lite way.'

I had the distinct impression they were dissing the indefensible conduct of the Afghan venture by our Labour government. Throwing away our men's lives by cheese-paring on their equipment.
At least that's what the media reports.
Why on earth should they diss Cameron?
What's he meant to have done or said?
It's unbelievable.
He hasn't even been in power yet.
I suspect you're just a wee bit short of toppling over the void Vulture.

Nick

Somewhat ironic that one moment Vulture is bemoaning the loss of sovreignity of the British people to Europe and then the next he is advocating a military coup.

Alan Phillips

At worst, DC broke an aspirational promise, at best Brown and NuLabour lied through their teeth, sold us a pup, murdered our democracy underlined their Big Brother State ideals...

I know who should be asked to explain their "broken promises"

General Zod

Indeed, Nick, but the frothy-mouthed don't tend to be self-aware.

Peter From Maidstone

Alan Philips, I am sure that everyone is aware who we should and do blame for giving away our democracy. I don't think anyone is blaming DC for that. But he is called to a different task, and seems to be failing at it. His job is to get our democracy back, but all that he has proposed is manifestly NOT going to achieve anything like what is required. This is why he is being criticised.

If a policeman happened on a murder scene of course he should not be blamed for the murder, but if the murderer is seen running down the road and the policeman does nothing to apprehend him then he also become liable to condemnation, though for a different failure.

We know that DC did not give away our nation, but I am growing less and less confident he means to get it back.

Watt Tyler

Vulture said that the leaders of the British Army have the necessary qualities to lead us. A military coup is a means to an end. If that end is a higher quality democracy, and British sovreignty, then it does not contradict those things. I am sure that the posters here are intelligent to grasp this, and so they must be deliberately misunderstanding.

As I said before, nowadays it is not enough to call people who worry about their ancient birth rights "frothy-mouthed." We are a growing band of people. This was a tactic of Labour during the course of their power-grab. Therefore I think that Conservatives who do the same have the same agenda. Only, they don't realise that there is no real power to obtain.

Dorothy Wilson

Rainer Unsinn
November 6th, 2009 12:37pm Report this comment

"Vulture
'He cannot afford to break that promise' - why not? he has already broken his promise to 'hold a referendum on any treaty that comes out of these negotiations'. "

He could not hold a referendum on the treaty that came out of the negotiations because he was Leader of the Opposition and not Prime Minister and thus did have the power to do so.

Liz Brown

no point in having a referendum now that teh damn thing is signed, sealed and delivered by LIEBOUR. It is BROWN who broke HIS Manifesto promise. Put that in your pipe and smoke it all you damn fool Liebour lot

Richard

That is a bit rich from the Labour supporters and a substantial minority of LibDems. Their parties broken promises are the reason we had no referendum.

Rob

Sometimes a promise cannot be fulfilled. The one on the Treaty is one of them. When Cameron promised a referendum on it he did not know that it would be fully ratified by now. A bit rash to make a promise when it is contingent on events outside his control but that's life. The bottom line is that he needs to keep a lid on the issue until he gets in power which Labour was hoping he would not be able to. Well, it looks to me as if he will and any dissent now will die away over the next few months and the Tory electoral prospects will not be damaged. Then it will be whole new ball game. Cameron and the Tory party will then have to decide to accept that the EU is the government of the UK or have a referendum to pull out. I think they will choose the latter.

Peter

I am quite sure a majority would support renegotiation but that presupposes it is an option. It is not an option. So the question is irrelevant.

Cameron has three options, only. To accept the treaty/Constitution and make the best of it.

To accept it but withhold any further payments until the EU accounts are signed off and acceptable reforms of the CAP are agreed.

To hold a referendum on "in or out" and accept the result. If it is "out" then the process for withdrawal should be implemented directly after the vote,.

.... .... ......

jonny.2.46.
Desperation is an ugly thing.
What else does she have?

Barbara

What a disappointment he's been to many. Hague too has not fulfilled all he promised. Where is the English spirit, have they not got any left? The Blues have really let down England enmass; we were expecting a good fight, one we'd all have supported to rout this Stalinistic government, but it is not to be. Instead we have appeasement, and we all know where that leads. I don't agree that the country has accepted this Conservative idea at all, looking on many forums, which its healthy to do, they all have the same message. NO to the EU, and we want a referendum now, on a In or Out vote. So how one can say Cameron's ideas have been accepted is a fallacy, its simply not true. Papers have for years given their version of things, but now the public want to see and hear the truth, not poles that are obscure and cannot be verified. Please, don't patronise the electorate with untruths, we've had 12 years of that with the present Stalinistic government, its time for 'truth' to prevail and nothing less will do. The loss of our country effects us all and what will ensue, we've had enough of untruths, stealing from us, and deceit, now is the time for 'truth' so lets hear it.