Motives for murder

Dennis Churchill

I fear we view these conflicts through European Post –Christian eyes and have little or no understanding as to how they are viewed by Muslims.
After the deaths of the Guardsmen (and RMPs) I am surprised no one has commented on Mandelson’s comments on Irish Radio some years’ ago about: “Chinless Wonders”.
No wonder the British public is sickened by a government that sends an army, the political class despises, to die and be maimed in a conflict that has nothing to do with us while opening our borders to the real threat.

TGF UKIP

"Criminally insane" thus starteth the transatlantic leftist media and political whitewash to be applied by nobody more liberally than The Big Red One and his politburo.

logdon

I subscribe to a number of anti jihad and US conservative sites and have forwarded their takes on this tale of outrage to various media outlets including this one.

They tell an unspun, non pc truth on this latest example of Islamic treachery.

My concern was that this would, like the fragging of tented troops at the onset of the Iraq War by a Muslim soldier be warped out of all reality, and bland catchalls subsituted for the reality which is....

This is without doubt Jihad. It should, hot on the heels of our own killing of five soldiers by so called onside Afghan police, raise questions about Muslims in the military.

There is already is so much to say about this and the far wider implications of Muslims dwelling within our societies.

This should suffice for now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EA1v2r8sHc&feature=player_embedded#

James Strong

No, not criminally insane.

Why will you not face facts?

He did it for his god, and millions of his fellow worshippers would approve.

Adam

He was a criminal lunatic? Possibly, but a little early to be calling it based largely on hearsay.

Jihadists are criminal lunatics? Do you even know what Jihad means?

General Zod

Well, he sounds like a lunatic to me, but of course you'd prefer to think of him as a typical Muslim.

Perhaps the Americans should kill his family just to be safe. After all, they are Muslims too.

votingbnp

"Now that the facts are becoming clearer, it seems that Major Nidal Malik Hasan’s horrific act was religiously motivated."

The facts were clear the moment his name was revealed. The silver lining to this cloud was watching the media evade the truth in their usual pathetic fashion.

Have they done a "muslims fear backlash" story yet?

logdon

"But looking at the emerging picture, my hunch is that he is criminally insane first and a calculating Islamic extremist second. In fact, I doubt whether there was much calculation involved."

David, your naivity is astounding. Get a bloody grip.

This is Jihad. It's what they do.

They hate us.

Here's some advice. Log on to Amazon.UK and order Obsession. Watch it and absorb the message.

Thats the first tiny step.

Then again at Amazon, type Islam and Jihad. Out of the mind boggling plethora, order The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam by Robert Spencer

Watch and learn.

Then come back without this lame excuse making which passes for journalism these days.

Prodicus

With all this known about him how the wossname was he permitted to carry on wearing the uniform and lurking near weapons? His superior officers have a lot of explaining to do. Had I lost a son or daughter in the massacre I'd be starting proceedings against them today.

Sam ARMSTRONG

I hope that all the Americans who leave comments on this site attacking Britain's dhimmitude are paying close attention to what has happened today in Texas. Particularly the excuses that are now being made on behalf of this psychotic fanatic.

Frank P

About 18 hours late, but better late than never, I suppose.

The mullahs are rubbing their hands in glee and planning their next outrage. We (and by we I men the West) are totally infiltrated and complacent. The senior officers who registered reports on the attitude and prior behaviour of the perpetrator of this Islamic outrage and did nothing to remove him from the armed services and have him put under surveillance should be cashiered themselves.
The West is riddled with such subversives, which is in character with the governments on both side of the Pond.

" Of course, jihadists are criminal lunatics but it does not follow that all criminal lunatics are jihadists, even those who are ‘devout’ Muslims."

You still don't geddit, do you David. There is a war on: it is between Islam and the 'Infidels'. It's time for people to choose their side and stop waffling.

Verity

Oh, I think we know how they’re viewed by Muslims, Dennis Churchill, given their inclination to run off at the mouth. And carry signs. And, inexplicably, wear desert garb.

TGF UKIP – You took the thought right out of my head.

David Blackburn – God you lefty journalists make my head hurt. You write: ”my hunch is that he is criminally insane first and a calculating Islamic extremist second. In fact, I doubt whether there was much calculation involved.”

Oh, really is that why he gave away most of his possessions the day before the murders? He wasn’t planning anything much?

That police woman got that sucker four times. I love it that the lump of lard was felled by a woman. Allah's not that akbar after all, eh?

Peter From Maidstone

You better choose which side you are on soon David. It looks like you are consistently batting for the wrong one. This is jihad. It is what they do.

Ken

...and, as a certain Mr Neather noted recently, Europe is letting hordes of these unworthies through the gates, without let or hinderance.

Now perhaps Mr Nelson will deign to understand why the Neather revelations and the rage they have released, are not going away anytime soon.

How's that draft, and its graphs, progressing?

Murgatroyd

Motive?

Blood and terror to secure the planet for Allah.

What we might call lunacy or mental health issues, but in the Islamic world has the support of numerous influential scholars who refer their wards to teachings in the Koran and the hadith.

Jihad.

All else is sophistry.

Hawkeye

Adam said: "Jihadists are criminal lunatics? Do you even know what Jihad means?"

Yes I know what jihad means - it means kill innocent people.

It may well have meant something else originally, but that is what it means today to a bunch of armed fanatics who seem to take great pleasure in recording their "jihad message" before going and killing anyone unlucky enough to be around them.

logdon

Meanwhile the POTUS, B. Hussein Obama who loves to apologise to the Muslim world seems lacking when it's Americans who die.

Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting
A bad week for Democrats compounded by an awful moment for Barack Obama.
By ROBERT A. GEORGE
Updated 9:18 AM CST, Fri, Nov 6, 2009

President Obama didn't wait long after Tuesday's devastating elections to give critics another reason to question his leadership, but this time the subject matter was more grim than a pair of governorships.

After news broke out of the shooting at the Fort Hood Army post in Texas, the nation watched in horror as the toll of dead and injured climbed. The White House was notified immediately and by late afternoon, word went out that the president would speak about the incident prior to a previously scheduled appearance. At about 5 p.m., cable stations went to the president. The situation called for not only his trademark eloquence, but also grace and perspective.

But instead of a somber chief executive offering reassuring words and expressions of sympathy and compassion, viewers saw a wildly disconnected and inappropriately light president making introductory remarks. At the event, a Tribal Nations Conference hosted by the Department of Interior's Bureau of Indian affairs, the president thanked various staffers and offered a "shout-out" to "Dr. Joe Medicine Crow -- that Congressional Medal of Honor winner." Three minutes in, the president spoke about the shooting, in measured and appropriate terms. Who is advising him?

Anyone at home aware of the major news story of the previous hours had to have been stunned. An incident like this requires a scrapping of the early light banter. The president should apologize for the tone of his remarks, explain what has happened, express sympathy for those slain and appeal for calm and patience until all the facts are in. That's the least that should occur.

Read it all

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html

Mirtha Tidville

Totally agree with Verity, just wish the Police Woman had been a better shot and despatched this lump of lard to meet his ancestors....still looking on the bright side he`s got the rest of his life on a Texas chaingang to look forward to

Anne Wotana Kaye

It worries me that the FBI had this evil bastard under suspicion six months ago, and yet he was able to go on and do this terrible act. I hope, that under Obama, the USA isn't going the way of Nu Labour Britain. Here, the Security would probably be called off, accused of racism, and after the event Bleeding Heart Lawyers would be queuing up to get on his case and plead his 'innocence.'

Verity

Mirtha Tidville says this jerk will spend the rest of his days on a Texas prison chain gang, but for his own security, he will not. Some prisoner would be likely to accidentally bury an axe in his head while chopping rock or whatever it is they do on chain gangs. American prisoners are surprisingly patriotic, and they are big supporters and admirers of the military.

This jihadi manqué, if he makes it out of hospital, which I sincerely hope he does as I want him to have his survival taken out of his own hands, he will probably be placed in the Estelle High Security Unit at Huntsville Prison. He will have no contact with other prisoners. And the guards won't be exchanging any light chit chat with him, either.

Anyway, at least he'll get to talk to his lawyer, who will take his appeals up as high as possible. I doubt that an aspirant jihadi will ever make it to the Supreme Court, especially with so many witnesses. Maybe the Supreme Court of Texas, but I suspect that's as high as he'll get, if that.

Now comes the good bit. All this time, on his own with lots of time to think, through his appeals, he has time to contemplate his end, which will not be as a jihadi killing for allah and getting rewards in heaven at all. He will be strapped onto a gurney and given a lethal injection.

But I do love it that he knows he was brought down by a woman who had quicker wits and was quicker on the draw than him.

If he lives, he is in for a very rough time in Huntsville.

Verity

PS - Mirtha Tidville, you say you wish the police woman had been a better shot, but she hit him four times! And look at all the armed men around. She is a heroine and I hope she recovers quickly. His bullet went through both her legs. I hope there is no permanent damage for this heroine.

Noa Zrk

Criminally insane? Not by any reasonable definition or even Clearly he knew exactly what he was doing and what the consequences of his actions would be. Calculation surely only relates to the number of dead and wounded resulting from his actions. If you are arguing that he was insane because of his religious beliefs then you are arguing that all people hold such beliefs are insane. It may be true, but is beside the point.
I am afraid your assessment of this man amounts to a fundamental misunderstanding of his beliefs and motivations.

General Zod

You people are idiots. Do you seriously believe that this guy was part of some jihadist conspiracy? He was a lone lunatic.

You are utterly paranoid about Islamic militancy. I'm just as scared of people like you as I am of real Islamic militants.

Hawkeye

Mirtha Tidville said: "he`s got the rest of his life on a Texas chaingang to look forward to"

I rather doubt it. If I recall correctly, Texas and Florida have an annual contest to see who can execute the most criminals in a 12 month period.

I think we can depend on the Texans to send Mr Hasan into the hereafter, martyr or not.

Derek

My suggestion for Spectator writers who don't get the issues is that they be sent on half pay for six months to the magazine's subscription department where their readers don't get their issues either.

Verity

Apparently, around 30 UNARMED soldiers had gathered at the centre to have their innoculations as they were being deployed the following day.

This jihadi managed to kill 12 people and wound many, including the heroic police woman who took him down.

Flags on Federal Buildings in the US are being flown at half mast.

Verity

Hawkeye, you shouldn't write comments like that because people who don't know the United States are in danger of believing you. Texas does put quite a number of people to death, but then it is a state with around 35m people. Don't know about FL, but there is no "contest".

Not for Prophet

General Zod - Ever read the Q'ran?

Pot Head

Lucky for You Americans Christians never shoot anyone. Otherwise America might have the developed world’s highest murder rate.

That’s right they have!

Anne Wotana Kaye

General Zod: Yes, you are right. We are all damn idiots. Idiots that don't see something wrong when an American Army psychologist goes around on base dressed in a white nightdress, looking like a complete nut. Sorry, if this offends any PC sensibilities, but I go further and state the US Military is in need of psychologists for the Big Brass who make military appointments. Why employ a Islamist in this position, and when he was suspected by the FBI months ago, why were his services retained? You think we are all paranoid? Either you are just out to wind people up in a juvenile Devil's advocate game, or you yourself are seriously wrong. Considering yoru nom de plume, I think you are just being contrary for the sport of it.

Anne Wotana Kaye

Correction: I should have written psychiatrist.

Noa Zrk

"...You are utterly paranoid about Islamic militancy. I'm just as scared of people like you as I am of real Islamic militants".

Oh, come come General! High flown drama queenery or what! Speccie bloggers are not generally known for their (literally) explosive propensities or their armed response to aggressive insults to their beliefs.
The fate of the rogue blogger is worse; they consign themselves to the less than tender mercies of Verity and Anne Wotana Kaye, and may God have mercy on their souls.

Alexandrovich

General Zod: '30th Greatest Comic Book Villain of All Time'.
More like General Fucking Nuisance.

Frank P

In two words General - Zod off!

The joke is over, from here on in you will be ignored.

Roy Smith

Isn't this proof there's not a sane one among them? Isn't this proof they can be born and bred in a country and want nothing more than to kill a good portion of you? Doesn't this prove the insanity of importing this religiously obsessed jihad Muslim creature?

Verity

A W Kaye, not to mention that that white Islamic desert dress and the dinky little hat were completely inappropriate attire for an off-duty soldier on a military base.

It was provocative and in yer face on a military base of a country that is fighting militant Islam and a country which has lost so many of its citizens at home and overseas to Islamic aggressors.

Especially as the FBI were already monitoring him.

Call me Infidel

@Pot Head
"Lucky for You Americans Christians never shoot anyone. Otherwise America might have the developed world’s highest murder rate.

That’s right they have!"

Who says smoking dope doesn't mess you up? How many Christians went on the rampage with a gun last year shouting Jesus is great Dope Head? Don't worry, you just get back to your weed man.

Finzi Holst

Verity-

Hate to bust your feminist bubble, but there were not a lot of armed men around. You are surprisingly ignorant of the facts about Fort Hood. They have MPs and civilian police for security, plus some other private security. The location where the terrorist Hasan did his shooting was full of unarmed soldiers, both men and women. The vast majority of personnel at Fort Hood do NOT carry weapons. The brave police officer was the first responder on site with a weapon.

Why else do you think the coward Hasan chose where he did to commit his grand act of cowardice? Gheesh. Get a grip on your Fruit of the Looms, my dear. Do you really think a Muslim terrorist would walk into a facility with only two handguns where he knew all the personnel were armed? No way. That is not the way of brave Islam.

That said, like you, I agree that she is a hero and I am very glad she took Hasan's decision when he would die away from him.

Frankly, all present at that facility ought to be able to take a shot at him -- one at a time. Starting with the wounded first.

Beer Moth

Is there such a word as 'khuffirphobia'?

Murgattroyd

The disconnect from people like General Z is more disturbing than the event itself.

Think about it General Z - you are part of the problem.

Frank P

Gerard Vanderleun draws attention to an excellent piece by Jerry Pournelle on the 'motivation' for the massacre:

http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/terrorwar/treason_punishable_by_dea.php

Put simply his heinous crime was treason. The political correctness of his superior officers obfuscated his prior actions and they were therefore complicit.

Thus do civilisations first falter, then fail.

logdon

Robert Spencer nails it.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/spencer-on-savage-re-fort-hood-jihadist.html

logdon

He didn't snap, this was planned. Meanwhile America prostrates itself looking for a 'reason'.

More 'outreach'. More 'understanding'. More of the idiotic 'why, oh why, do they hate us so'?

When the answer is staring you in the face, they hate you because you are an infidel, is ignored because how could they possibly think that, we are in trouble.

Bush was bad enough, Obama is terrifying. He will jump to CAIR's tune like a marionette.

His reluctance yesterday, in his address, by relegating this act of jihad to second place after an Indian Nation frivolity was both shocking and telling as to where his priorities lie.

US military, on US military property within the US are mown down by an ingrate Muslim who received his doctor's training courtesy of that US military and all Obama thinks of is a shout out to Native Americans?

Here's a snapshot as to how it's panning out and the signs are not good.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

When Nidal Hasan came calling
Nov 06, 2009 06:41 pm | Robert

A copy of the Koran and Nidal Hasan's business card, given to a neighbor yesterday before he went on his jihad. (Thanks to Cindy.)...
read more

Fort Hood shooter regularly described war on terror as "war on Islam"
Nov 06, 2009 03:15 pm | Robert

Islamic jihadists routinely characterize anti-terror efforts as part of a "war on Islam." But of course, there is no war on terror, and there is no war on Islam. There is just the Islamic jihad against the U.S. and the West. "Hasan Called War on Terror 'War Against Islam,' Classmate...
read more

Muslim vets group: No reports of harassment of Muslim soldiers. None.
Nov 06, 2009 02:17 pm | Robert

CAIR's Ibrahim "Honest Ibe" Hooper must be fuming at Abdul-Rashid Abdullah. As I explained here, he needs hate crimes. But the greasy Islamophobes aren't obliging. "Muslim Veterans Group Says No Reports of Harassment of Islamic Soldiers," by Joshua Rhett Miller for FoxNews, November 6 (thanks to Axel): A Muslim veteran...
read more

Playing the victim card: Florida mosque requests extra police protection, even though it wasn't threatened
Nov 06, 2009 02:08 pm | Robert

The thuggish Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) is playing the mainstream media like an accordion today, knowing that no reporter will ever dare ask them why they're condemning yesterday's jihad attack while opposing every anti-terror measure that has ever come down the pike, and smearing and defaming those who are...
read more

Murgatroyd

If I were an Islamic supremacist I would wish to see many more events such as Fort Hood - it would give me immense pleasure to observe the victims blame themselves.

It would put quite a spring in my step I dare say.

Anne Wotana Kaye

Verity: I agree with you, of course his gear was innappropriate. But if you will excuse my vulgarity, he was simply doing what all those revolting creatures crawling around in burkas and otehr odd garments at the shopping malls are doing, simply taking the p*ss out of all of us. Already "The Guardian" and other pothouses are concerned about an Islamic backlash. Left to me, I'd give them a good backlash, right back to a place where they would be stoned to death if they didn't obey orders.

Peter H

Any chance of sending Mr Blacburn on a lengthy secondment to the New Statesman?

Vulture

@I', beginning to think that the 'criminal lunatics' are not confined to Texas.

Is not criminal lunacy an apt definition of the politics of the ostrich as practiced by the Speccie team and such latter day appeasers as Gen. Zod and DavidDP?

By refusing to face the ugly facts about Islam they are actually encouraging more and greater bloodshed ahead.

Read the Koran, guys. It's all there. But at least that enemy is in plain view - they tend to wear beards, burquas, robes and funny little caps. It's the fifth column writing for the BBC, Guardian and - sadly - the Spectator (Mel P excepted) excusing developing Jihad as 'isolated incidents' that we really have to worry about.

Mind you, I was surprised to hear a piece on R4's Today yesty that got under the BBC's PC radar: reprting on another front that's opened in the ongoing war between Islam and the rest of the world: this one in Thailand, where insurgent Islamists have killed more than 3,000 Buddhists with their usual charming methods of bombings, burnings, beheadings and general mayhem.

Wake up General Zod : its coming to a place near even you. Soon.

logdon

Spot the parallels?

Our Brain Dead Country – by David Horowitz

Posted by David Horowitz on Nov 6th, 2009 and filed under FrontPage.
USREPORT-US-TEXAS-SHOOTING

A Muslim fanatic with an Internet site praising Islamic suicide bombers as defenders of their comrades is a Major in the U.S. Army with access to military intelligence and lethal weaponry. And it’s not as though the army didn’t know that he was a Muslim fanatic and supporter of the Islamic jihad against the West. He was under investigation for six months because of his anti-American, jihadist rantings. He did not want to be deployed. He wanted to be discharged.

But despite his identification with America’s enemies, the army kept him in its officer corps. How in God’s name was this possible? But it was. And so, after calling America the “aggressor” in Afghanistan and Iraq, this Muslim jihadist traitor army officer picks up his semi-automatic weapons and heads for the center at Ft. Hood where soldiers are being deployed to fight the jihadists in Afghanistan to conduct his massacre. Yet this morning the Fox News Channel chiron says “Investigators search for a motive in the Ft. Hood killings.” Is everybody out of their mind?

The Ft. Hood killings are the chickens of the left coming home to roost. Already the chief political correspondent of The Nation has decried even mention of the fact that the jihadist killer Hasan is a Palestinian Muslim. According to The Nation this is “Islamophobia.” This fatuous attempt to protect America’s enemies carries on The Nation’s 60-year tradition as the leading fifth column collaborator with America’s enemies — defender of the Rosenbergs, defender of Hiss, defender of their boss Stalin, defender of Mao, defender of Castro and now defender of Islamic terrorists. But The Nation is only the tip of an iceberg. The fifth column formed out of the unholy alliance between radical Islam and the American left is now entrenched in the White House and throughout our government. And in matters like the Muslim jihadist Major Hasan our military is its captive.

The Fort Hood massacre is the first of the preventable atrocities we have been warning about on our websites since 9/11 — the atrocities which are apparently necessary for Americans to wake up to the threat that confronts us. We have a vast internal threat in this country in the form of this unholy alliance between the anti-American Left and radical Islam – whose Muslim Brotherhood network extends through our universities, our government and our military. It is “politically incorrect” to recognize this fact. You can be barred — as I have been — from speaking at universities for even talking about it. The embargo of discussion of the Islamo-fascist threat puts every American (including the infidel collaborators) at risk. Hasan had semi-automatic weapons. But they weren’t nuclear. That possibility is just around the corner unless we undergo a sea change in our attitudes and marshal the intelligence and the courage to recognize the threat.

http://frontpagemag.com/2009/11/06/our-brain-dead-country-by-david-horowitz/

Anne Wotana Kaye

Logdon: Good day, I read your posting with sadness, and agree with the contents.
This is really tragic. Not only the murder of all those military personnel, but the fact that the USA has gone the way of Britain (no longer Great Britain). Through all the misery of living in this politically correct, bolshie country, I imagined that America was still the Land of the Free. How wrong I was. It seems that the USA is the home of the free only if you tick certain boxes. I wasn't exactly thrilled when Obama got elected, bringing with him the trashy Hiliary Clinton and all the greaseball Democrats, but this is worse than my direst nightmares. It is no longer paranoid to see Reds under the beds, they are out in the open sitting on the highest chairs in the country.

Verity

Finzi Holst - I think you wrote your post before my retraction went up. I did say that the men were not armed.

Anyway, to those above (this moronic system of posting does not allow one to refer back to the thread) posting excuses for this vile creature and Islam in general, he had been under surveillance by the FBI for six months as a possible jihadi. He had been posting affirmatively for jihad under various names and was being monitored. Clearly not closely enough, but they were on to him.

This will all come out at his trial and will be taken into account in his psychiatric evaluations. We may even get some landmark decisions.

Not for Prophet

Logdon, Obama’s behaviour was so outrageous as to be breathtaking. Doing a bit of stand-up for the Native Americans before getting down to the massacre. This will not have gone down with most of the public. Even Democrats. Still, it’s a pleasure to watch him sinking like a stone. I think it's going to be a shoo-in for the right Republican in 2012.

AWK – Oh, certainly. It’s an act of aggression and hostility to the citizenry of the country. Like those attention-seeking, inyerface slappers in places like Luton who wear desert attire designed to keep shifting desert sands out of mouths, noses, eyes and ears. It’s an intentional affront that they, with their low intelligence and poor education, probably think is somehow clever. I thought wearing a mask on the public highway in England was against the law? Does anyone know? If David Cameron promised to outlaw the wearing of face coverings in public, he would probably get elected even though everyone loathes him.

Anne Wotana Kaye

Not For Prophet: I agree with you, pity prophets are ignored in tier lifetimes. Re: Cameron, the Red/Blue = Mauve Cameron will probably say don't wear face masks. but you can cover up if the whites of your eyes are showing.

JohnAnt

Hasan's entire behaviour seems to me to be that of an emotionally unstable man pushed over the tipping point by some outside influence. It's not impossible that he was deliberately groomed by islamists and then 'recruited' as a patsy for mass-slaughter. Who was the stranger who was seen visiting his home two days before the attack on Fort Hood?
This is what you get for two decades of anti-competitive, inclusive, PC-sensitive recruiting practices throughout the western world.

Verity

For much, much more information on this event, that the MSM are discreetly sweeping under the carpet, go to jihadwatch.org

There's information there that I guarantee will never see the light of day in the cowardly and cowed MSM.

Robert Spencer is a hero.

JohnAnt

Some quite perceptive stuff about the media reaction here
http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/11/06/hasan-with-ptsd-or-media-with-factitious-disorder-by-proxy/
and an interesting news snippet here (Hasan was a member of a Dept of Homeland Security Task Force)
http://gawker.com/5398253/nidal-hasan-ft-hood-shooter-participated-in-homeland-security-disaster-preparation

Geoff Miller

THE STRANGER - Rudyard Kipling

Please note the third part closely. And Kipling had much experience of Muslims.

THE Stranger within my gate,
He may be true or kind,
But he does not talk my talk —
I cannot feel his mind.
I see the face and the eyes and the mouth,
But not the soul behind.

The men of my own stock
They may do ill or well,
But they tell the lies I am wonted to,
They are used to the lies I tell.
And we do not need interpreters
When we go to buy and sell.

The Stranger within my gates,
He may be evil or good,
But I cannot tell what powers control —
What reasons sway his mood;
Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
Shall repossess his blood.

The men of my own stock,
Bitter bad they may be,
But, at least, they hear the things I hear,
And see the things I see;
And whatever I think of them and their likes
They think of the likes of me.

This was my father's belief
And this is also mine:
Let the corn be all one sheaf —
And the grapes be all one vine,
Ere our children's teeth are set on edge
By bitter bread and wine.

logdon

Geoff Miller
November 7th, 2009 4:25pm

Rumsfeld's unknown unknown's, derided at the time repeats this theme.

As you say, Kipling, another one much castigated by the lefties for his love of Imperial India, has more knowledge of these people in his little finger than a Miliband will learn in a lifetime.

The difference is connection. Here's his insight into the plight of the forefathers of the ones now repeating history.

TOMMY

by Rudyard Kipling

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

logdon

It may seem that I have no words or personal opinion on these matters when I post entire pieces from noted US commentators.

I do, but for me Robert Spencer, and this from Barry Rubin do not need any piecemeal extrapolation or subjective appraisal.

They are stand alone opinions from stand alone souls who brave the onslaught of a passive and pathetic MSM.

When I heard the BBC news description of this jihadi killer as, 'who happens to be a Muslim', my heart sank. I knew the tale was already told in their infected brains. Same old, same old from these disgusting liars for whom the truth is another country.

Here's Rubin's take.

Understanding the Ft. Hood Attack: America’s the Bad Guy This I Know, Because My TV Told Me So

Posted: 06 Nov 2009 02:11 PM PST
[Please subscribe, original analysis by a 30-year veteran Middle East expert]

By Barry Rubin

My teenage daughter watches the “Bones” series and described the latest program to me. An American soldier who had served in Iraq is found dead in the United States. FBI agents discover he was in a battle where U.S. soldiers had stormed a house and one of his friends was killed by Iraqis posing as civilians before the Americans wiped them out.

Of course, you know what happens. The soldier killed in the house really died from friendly fire; the rest of the soldiers murdered all the Iraqis in cold blood and planted guns on them. She hasn’t seen the end yet but I can guess that one of the other murderous American soldiers who’d been there had also finished his enlistment, returned to America, and killed the second soldier to shut him up.

I feel sorry for American veterans, soldiers, and their families who must put up with anti-American slanders from rich American show business types who live in luxury, feel smug, and never do anything for their country but bash it. This is also the kind of thing that brings us to a world where Libya, Iran, and Sudan condemn Israel for alleged war crimes as part of the Western intelligentsia cheers.

Might such an incident have happened? Yes, but I doubt if there are one hundred other shows presenting the heroic and decent acts of U.S. soldiers there and elsewhere, the kind of ratio that probably prevails.

Of course, other kinds of incidents also happen so here’s my outline for a future script. A young man, the son of Palestinian immigrants to America, grows up hearing constantly about how heroic (Arab/Muslim version) or provoked and justified (Western version) were Palestinian terrorists who deliberately murdered Israeli civilians.

For whatever psychological and other reasons, he becomes increasingly pious in his religious beliefs. But his piety is developing in an environment in which radical Islamists are overwhelming conservative traditional Islam in offering their interpretations. He reads in the holy texts injunctions to wage Jihad, to conquer the non-believers, and of how they are enemies. And he reads on the web sites interpretations which stress the radical passages and interpret them for the present day.

Is this the only and inevitable interpretation of Islam? Of course not, but what’s important is that this is the prevalent one, the exciting and trendy one. These interpretations may be opposed by those of a more traditional bent but it is not daily and energetically denounced by them in effective terms.

Among these radical Islamist interpretations—so contrary, it should be noted, to Arab nationalist doctrine, in which he seems to have no interest--is that all Muslims must always fight on the side of other Muslims, above any national loyalty. But what if Muslims are fighting Muslims? Then whichever side is allied with non-Muslims must be wrong, according to the radical Islamist ideology.

So he rejects without even considering it the obvious counter-argument: the United States if fighting to help some Muslims who are fighting other Muslims. Then, too, the “other Muslims” are radical Islamists, like him. He knows which side he’s on. And it is logical to think that in his inner turmoil the question that tortures him is this one: Do I have enough guts, am I a good enough Muslim, to put my beliefs into action or am I just a cowardly hypocrite?

What about his taking in some assimilation, acculturation, American patriotism? They’re out of date. Hearing a public critique of contemporary Islam as a religion or of Islamism as an illegitimate offspring of Islam? That's out of bounds.

There are scenes of him joining the army and getting a free medical and psychiatric education at the American taxpayers’ expense. Ironically, to get to the armed forces medical college, he drives from Silver Spring to Rockville, Maryland, past the sites where the “Beltway Sniper”—a Mr. Muhammad with a very parallel story—shot his victims.

And then there’s footage, too, of September 11 and of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He’s shown to be getting a certain viewpoint from both sides: Jihadist into one ear; a constant, withering criticism of America from its own media pours into the other.

If his fellow soldiers speak differently, well that just marks them out as personal enemies, doesn’t it? At Walter Reed Hospital, where he’s posted, he preaches Islam trying to convert his colleagues and patients. Well, isn’t that what the doctrine says: give them a chance to become Muslims and if they reject that then all the worse for them? But he’s disciplined for this behavior. Can he have doubt, then who is the “enemy” of Islam according to the interpretation he accepts?

Did the Taliban and al-Qaida launch an attack on the United States and slay in the thousands? That doesn’t matter in this world view. If the United States fights back then America is the aggressor and must be fought and its people killed. When examined closely, many "condemnations" of terrorism by Islamic and certainly from Islamist sources only criticize terrorism against Muslims or within Muslim-majority countries.

And is the problem here a psychological one? Well, he is more closed, more serious, more fanatical, more deaf to nuance or to the appeals of just having a good time. But that’s not the cause of what happens, it’s only the difference between his becoming a terrorist personally and cheering on others who do so.

He is a loner. But so what? He needs no human leader. He has his divinely inspired texts, and also websites, and most important his ideology to guide him. And so one day, facing the prospect of being shipped out and being forced to “fight” (he’s a psychiatrist not an infantryman but still part of the “enemy” army) he takes a gun and starts shooting his fellow American soldiers.

To cite only two of many examples, when anarchists threw bombs or assassinated leaders 100 years ago or when groups like the Red Brigades launched terrorist attacks in Europe thirty years ago, was the cause the fact that they were pursuing their versions of anarchist or Communist politics or that these individuals had personal psychological and social maladjustments? Whatever the mental elements in their behavior, the motive and direction were political ideology.

Jihadist attacks in the United States have been defined out of existence. No matter what happens--a planned attack on Ft. Dix, the murder of two people standing in line at the El Al counter at Los Angeles airport, a driver deliberately running down people or two others with a trunk full of weapons in the Carolinas, or honor killings all over the place--we will be told this has nothing to do with Jihad or Islamism or an interpretation of Islam.

Afterward, there will be a different type of a cover-up in pretending that this had nothing to do with Islamism or Jihad but is merely a matter of an individual's mental illness. In contrast to the plot of the "Bones" show cited above, those who speak out on these points won't be killed but merely will have their characters assassinated.

We will be told that this is a unique case which has nothing to do with anything else.

Set the story at Fort Hood in Texas.

General Zod

Frank, don't worry, you are on ignore because of your potty mouth and your unthinking bigotry.

General Zod

Actually, I'd be silly to ignore Frank. He's too easy to wind up.

By the way, do the rest of you bigots seriously believe that every Muslim is a radical militant?

JohnAnt

Zod, We're not asking whether *every* muslim is a radical militant. We're looking at the motives of one this particular muslim, Hasan, and examining the steadily increasing radicalization and deliberate programming of observant muslims within mosques and madrasas, that turns many young males first into sympathisers, then abettors, then assistants, then active terrorists. No, not every one, but potentially, in time, a large minority - large and militant enough to overwhelm the more passive majority.
But reading the Koran with the radical anti-semitic and anti-Christian, anti-unbeliever footnotes and commentaries such as in the edition sold publicly to visitors in the Regent's Park Mosque - that would certainly help considerably to turn a pious believer into a fanatic.
I guess his fellow soldiers had realised what loony direction Hasan was going in, but his superiors chose to ignore it because of their mantra of 'inclusiveness'.
I note that President Barack Hussein Obama, instead of promising to root out subversion from the Army of which he is Head, today simply praised its 'inclusiveness'.
Inclusiveness has not in the past ever been the attribute of a successful army. The esprit de corps does not usually accept little touchy-feely variants.
Such as: Oh please sir, I hate this dreadful hat they've issued me with, can I wear something else?
Or: please sir, I don't actually want to go to war, I've just realised I'm on the enemy's side.

General Zod

JohnAnt, there are two possibilities with this guy: he was a lunatic; or he had become a fanatic of his own accord (internet logs may help with this), but a cursory review of the postings on here of Frank P and several others will show you that they are paranoid bigots who want to believe that every single Muslim wants to kill them.

I am very concerned about Islamic militants and that is why I still believe there is a role for our troops in Afghanistan. I believe further that it is time to declare Pakistan a failed state and for UN forces to tackle the Taliban there too. The Imans who come to this country to preach hatred come mostly from there. Solve that problem and we can start to improve the situation here.

Frank P

Mark Steyn has weighed in;

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/hasan-american-maj-2640337-name-major

Sample:

>Thirteen dead and 28 wounded would be a bad day for the U.S. military in Afghanistan and a great victory for the Taliban. When it happens in Texas, in the heart of the biggest military base in the nation, at a processing center for soldiers either returning from or deploying to combat overseas, it is not merely a "tragedy" (as too many people called it) but a glimpse of a potentially fatal flaw at the heart of what we have called, since 9/11, the "war on terror." Brave soldiers trained to hunt down and kill America's enemy abroad were killed in the safety and security of home by, in essence, the same enemy – a man who believes in and supports everything the enemy does.
And he's a U.S. Army major.
And his superior officers and other authorities knew about his beliefs but seemed to think it was just a bit of harmless multicultural diversity – as if believing that "the Muslims should stand up and fight against the aggressor" (i.e., his fellow American soldiers) and writing Internet paeans to the "noble" "heroism" of suicide bombers and, indeed, objectively supporting the other side in an active war is to be regarded as just some kind of alternative lifestyle that adds to the general vibrancy of the base.
When it emerged early Thursday afternoon that the shooter was Nidal Malik Hasan, there appeared shortly thereafter on Twitter a flurry of posts with the striking formulation: "Please judge Maj. Malik Nadal [sic]by his actions and not by his name."<

There's more, read it all. An to think the buyers of this magazine let Steyn go.

Anne Wotana Kaye

Geoff Miller: The Stranger: What a wonderful poem, by a great poet. Somehow, despite being a lover of Kipling I had missed this work. The other one, shown here, Tommy, I know and love. So Logdon, thank you too. Perhaps we should all try to blog in poems which fit the occasion, it would surely be uplifting in these frustrating times.

Verity

Geoff Miller - like A W Kaye, I too would like to say thanks for posting "The Stranger" which was new to me, too and is absolutely wonderful.

General Zod, A quick, easy, yes-or-no question: ever read the Q'ran?

You do understand, do you not, that it is the duty of every Muslim man to further the accomplishing of Dar-es-Salaam?

logdon

The madness has begun.

It's like a bad dystopian novel where the nightmare never ends and all objective honesty is curtailed by an overarching all encompassing faceless entity.

The protagonist is screaming, he's behind you yet they don't listen, blinded by the security blanket of falsity and the doctrine of moral equivalence.

Orwellian is an overused term, as is Kafkaesque, but who could argue with those visionary's when we are confronted by the msm's indifference to what is staring them in the face.

The agonised frustration of Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters is so palpable in this clip, it oozes from his pores, yet Bill Reilly plows the furrow of least resistance, almost wilfully blind to what is going on.

This absolute craziness is leading to a whole new ball game.

Remember America has a second amendment, the right to bear arms.

Ironically, in view of what's happening now, designed to aid militias and to prevent the state overwhelming it's citizens, the time is fast approaching where that state is bullshitting its citizens and browbeating them into serf like submission to the orthodoxy's of pc.

The tea parties rained on B. Hussein's little parade. They spoke out in unequivocal terms that they, the Americans who populate America are the enfranchised, that they do care and do have a a say.

Disparaged and sneered at by the Pelosi's and rich, corrupt and controlling Democrats they still stuck to the message. A message so powerful that Obamacare is now in the doldrums.

This is the worst atrocity on US soil since 9/11 yet Obama cannot even give it clear priority in his first speech following the event. He prefered a Native American â˜shout outâ™.

Something is so wrong, so deadly wrong with that one single act of defiance against his own military and by extenuation, country, we have to seriously doubt this shyster's every future word.

It seals our suspicions and you can bet it's not lost on that vast majority of patriotic Americans.

Hereâ™s a voice expressing what all sane and informed people are thinking.

Lt. Col. Ralph Peters to Bill O'Reilly: Ft. Hood Shooter Major Hasan Is An Islamic Terrorist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCY1lsJg8zs&feature=player_embedded#

Anne Wotana Kaye

Logdon: Read your comments seriously. We are in the midst of a Kafkaesque scenario, where the puppet masters are trying to control us mentally and physically. "unless you have this battle of hearts and minds won.." blurts out Brown, with his sickly elocution and strange mouth sounds and shapes, whilst Big Brother/Sister creates ever more controls. The battle for our minds is now in full swing - PC forbids us facing who is killing in the name of religion. Has anybody seen any Crusaders on white horses, bearing crosses lately? No, but I am sure plenty of burka-clad characters, accompanied by bearded men in long nightgowns are taking over converted churches and synagogues. They are funded by monies given by Nu Labour to keep them sweet. Even more sinister is the battle for our hearts. Emotions are what drive the majority of people, rather than pure logic. How will Nu Labour tackle this? They have already dug deep into the very fabric of personal and family life. After destroying generations of decent familial behaviour, they remove children on the pretext of protection, placing them in institutions or nurseries where they are open to abuse of the most horrific forms. Urban slum youth have had the hearts torn out of them, and with no mother figures to respect, nor father figures as role models they gang rape without conscience, seeing it as a badge of honour. Years ago, there was a book "The Clockwork Orange" which was filmed in its terrible detail. The film was banned in the UK for many years, but now one can see it. But why bother? Worse can be seen on the UK streets where Nu Labour has grabbed both minds and hearts.

Noa Zrk

General Zod
November 7th, 2009 11:33pm

"..I believe further that it is time to declare Pakistan a failed state and for UN forces to tackle the Taliban there too. The Imans who come to this country to preach hatred come mostly from there. Solve that problem and we can start to improve the situation here...".

Please clarify how you propose to obtain UN support to attack a current Ally with a democratic system of government?
How will this prevent the preaching of Islamic terrorism in the UK?

Verity

I've been over at jihadwatch.org and a couple of commenters there have mentioned the very interesting sudden MSM description of local muslims as "a vibrant community".

How did this meme get going, I wonder.

General Zod

Have you read the Koran, Verity? Every verse? Every interpretation? Or do you just select the bits that feed your prejudices?

Not for Prophet

The Orwelian disinformation has begun:

From The Telegraph: "General George Casey, US Army chief of staff, cautioned against jumping to conclusions about whether religious beliefs motivated the accused gunman, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a Muslim born in the United States of immigrant parents.

"I'm concerned that this increased speculation could cause a backlash against some of our Muslim soldiers. And I've asked our Army leaders to be on the lookout for that," Gen Casey told CNN's "State of the Union."

WTF?