A great shame

Vulture

Tragically, the war in Afghanistan means that today's young are much more aware of war than their immediate predecessors. I have guided numerous parties of schoolkids to WW1 battlefields over the past decade, and they never fail to be moved by what they see - especially when they note the ages on the gravestones are close to their own. When I first attended the nightly sounding of the Last Post at the Menin Gate in the mid-1980s there were ten or a dozen people there. These days there are hundreds, many of them school parties or British squaddies.
What is significant is the lack of notice or respect paid to their war dead by our European allies, the French and Germans.

Watt Tyler

I daily remember how all those generations of English, going back centuries whose names were never etched in any stone, fought and gave their lives for my God given birth right of freedom.

As we are now governed by an unelected foreign power, I am greatly distressed that those many many thousands died in vain. This is the greatest shame.

Nicholas

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

Frank P

We have collectively fouled their graves - shame on us!

In2minds

“Remembrance Sunday. There is growing concern that younger generations are not as engaged with the act of remembrance as previous generations.”

But today, as with previous generations, they are usually the ones being killed. Perhaps we should concentrate on that?

Austin Barry

If you could speak to someone who died on the D-Day beaches or at Anzio and told them that we are now ruled from Brussels by the French and Germans, their plangent reply would be, "Oh, we lost then?"

Peter From Maidstone

I happened to be in town today just after 11am. Normally I am still in Church. I stopped in town and watched the parade coming back from the cenotaph. I must say that I was pleased to see a lot of people lining the streets, clapping the soldiers and veterans as they passed, both members of the RE and Ghurkahs. And then about 100/200 young cadets, Army, ATC, Sea Cadets and CCF. In fact I don't think I had seen so many before and I wonder if they are seeing a boom in memberships. So I was pleased to see a positive and enthusiastic response to the Armed Forces in town, and after the parade passed the Town Hall, where the Mayor and other dignatories took the salute, it was good to see so many soldiers and cadets in uniform around the town.

Andy Leeds

I watched the simple ceremony at the Cenotaph this morning. It had a simple dignity that was very touching.

I believe the Labour Government wanted to change it. The Queen and her people had other ideas.

TomTom

I was not aware that War Memorials were erected after the Second World War; in fact I think not. They were put up ecause of the County Regiment system and City 'Pals' battalions which basically wiped out whole communities in assaults on Somme, Ypres, Gallipoli etc.....towns like Bury or Bradford; or the loss of Carson's Ulster Volunteer Force on The Somme. The Second War mixed regiments with soldiers from different regions.

The Cenotaph was the product of fears of civil disorder after Bank Rate was raised drastically in 1921 to calm down postwar inflation. It led to huge unemployment especially among former soldiers as textiles and mining (the two big British exports pre-1914) contracted.....the "Homes fit for Heroes" had not been delivered but Poor Law poverty had and wifes of the MIAs had to wait 7 years for their husbands to be declared dead before Poor Relief flowed in their direction.

The Cenototaph was built to protect the established order from revolution as in Germany and Russia and focus the nation in a ceremony to recognise human loss. The succour to the wounded came from a voluntary organisation The Royal British Legion not The Exchequer. Firms like Vickers however did still have accounts to pay roylties of 3d/shell to Krupp for using their fuse design.....Kipling worked on the wording for the Commonwealth War Graves portland stone.....and supposedly this was to make everyone feel war had not made manufacturers very rich and Tommy Atkins lose what little he had.

Whether that can be sustained is not clear, and wheher MoD and BAE should be able to offload costs of death, injury, and disablement of human software onto voluntary subscription whilst billing taxpayers for their hardware, is highly debatable

The Welsh Jacobite

"There is growing concern that younger generations are not as engaged with the act of remembrance as previous generations."

Such concern, if it exists, is misplaced, and probably has more to do with prejudice against the "younger generations". For those with eyes to see the low point in "engagement" was 20-30 years ago. As other commenters have observed, of recent years attendance at ceremonies of remembrance, by people of all ages, has grown tremendously.

It is not the young who are at fault. If you are in your twenties you will have contemporaries who are currently serving in Afghanistan; you may well know people who have been killed. Remembrance Sunday will mean something to you, as it does to your grandparents.

If there is a problem it is with those in their forties and fifties. Thankfully it seems that even there there has been a shift, and many of them are losing the cynicism of their youth.

Rainer Unsinn

I stand to be corrected, but I failed to see either Brown or Millipede bow their heads at the Cenotaph.

Shows how much they care for the dead soldiers.

Dennis Churchill

“A war memorial is a symbol of community,”
Yes Community, singular rather than Communities plural.
We are the only country in the world where nationalism is officially discouraged and can even result in you losing your job.

Ken

Vulture:
Can't speak for the Germans but on the French I think you are wrong.

Mayors all round France receive written instructions on how to conduct the remembrance ceremony they perform every November 11 for the dead of both World Wars and the Algerian conflict, at town and village war memorials.

Every year the vibrant regional press carry plenty of reports and pictures of these commemorations. School children feature prominently alongside surviving veterans. Plaques on walls and religious crosses on bridges record where French resistance fighters were cut down and fresh flowers can be found there on a regular basis.

Only recently I saw a moving news report about a 70 year old Jewish refugee who had travelled from the US to find the surviving nuns of the convent at Figeac that had saved her and her brother from deportation during the Nazi occupation.

Furthermore you will find the war memorials, certainly in the south, are carefully tended year round.

In my tiny village virtually the entire population, young and old, turn out for the ceremony every year under the watchful eye of a 30-year-old Mayor.

Peter From Maidstone

TomTom, surely the cenotaph was erected in 1919, therefore it cannot have been due to concerns in 1921?

London Calling

Announced today the 94th soldier to die in Afghanistan, my thoughts are with their family and friends, along with all of those brave soldiers who have sadly lost their lives and to those who continue to fight on behalf of Great Britain.

Today is a Day of remembrance, to respect the fallen, it’s a great shame The Spectator has not marked this day with a more fitting post. The younger generation are aware if not engaged as you would appreciate, but then schools could do more to engage the younger generation to mark Remembrance Day, why not a British History Month?
As far as the disrepair of War Memorials you make a good point, however you fail to mention who is responsible for the care of war memorials, is it the local Council where the memorials reside?, if so the Shame is theirs and this disrespect of the fallen should be rectified immediately.

Peter From Maidstone

The Maidstone memorial is well looked after and used each year. On Saturday I took my son to Wittersham for a U10 football match and their memorial was beautiful and in excellent repair.

Dennis Churchill

London Calling
You write: “why not a British History Month?”
Because it would not be very “Multi-Cultural”.
Which bits of British history would you select for the third or so of the children in London who would have had no ancestors here when the events were taking place?

TomTom

Peter from Maidstone - good point. Bank rate was raised progressively to 7% by April 1920. The demobilisation of troops began very quickly after 1918 with no jobs for them to go to as women had been working in factories....which is why demobbing took until 1948 after WWII to reduce risk of unemployment.

The Cenotaph was commissioned 1919 but unveiled 1920.

The story of blinded soldiers selling matches on street corners is illustrative of the situation....and we forget that once a merchant seaman was torpedoed he ceased to be paid.

The fact that the Lloyd George Coalition won a 1918 Khaki Election and had nothing to show for it except a legacy of Marconi Scandal and war profiteering must have made frustration for soldiers entitled to vote for the first time after the Representation of The People Act 1918 unbelievably high. They could vote Coalition or nothing.

This is probably why Labour pulled out of Churchill's Coalition after VE Day. So even if my dates were wrong I stick to the essence of the point.

Nicholas

TomTom - nice bit of alternative history there. I bet you think "Oh what a lovely war" gives an accurate and balanced picture too.

Andy

Vulture, I've been part of Armistice Day (not Remembrance Sunday) ceremonies in France and there is no doubt they honour their dead. We processed from laying wreaths at the War Memorial (which also records the names of the missing) to the local primary school where we honoured the memorial to those staff who lost their lives, ending up at the churchyard where English and Canadian soldiers (the town was liberated by the Canadians) are buried. Unlike in Britain, it all happened on November 11th, as it does every year, because it is a holiday.

Tanuki

In a predominantly secular third millennium, I feel that the religious aspect of remembrance should be dropped. For me the important thing is the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month - not any religious 'sunday service' thing which is a movable feast, a show-event decoupled from the real date.

I've stood in silence as the Wootton Bassett repatriation cortege passes - but I do not bow my head - I hold my head high and proud in honour recognition and memory of the sacrifice the troops have made. They did not hang their heads and nor should I.

Dennis Churchill

A Green Jacket has just been reported as killed.
Nicholas
I would suggest ‘Mud, Blood and Poppycock’ by Gordon Corrigan rather than a piece of theatre.

Nicholas

"I stand to be corrected, but I failed to see either Brown or Millipede bow their heads at the Cenotaph."

Milliband definitely bowed his head. Brown did not.

Peter From Maidstone

Tanuki, why should the religious aspect be dropped? Is that what most veterans want? Is it not part of the English tradition for which so many died. It is customary in our culture to bow our heads in respect, which is why Gordon Brown's failure to do so is rather shocking. You are free to develop your own customs, but it seems rather disrespectful to describe a simple ceremony that seems to have a renewing relevance to British people as 'a show-event'. I think those participating understand it rather differently.

London Calling

Dennis Churchill

Our current armed forces, navy and air force do have British born service men and women who come from a multicultural backgrounds. I do not consider our British History in bits and pieces and neither to I disregard the brave Ghurkhas who have served our country so gallantly.

Your point is just as irrelevant as asking why someone who is Black and British should embrace Black History Month when they may have no affiliation with their cultural history now that they are British. If we are to engage our younger generation on Remembrance Day we can only achieve this by educating them on past and current Wars and by promoting a sense of British Identity alongside celebrating cultural backgrounds. It is obvious to me that our country is suffering from a severe identity crisis and its no wonder when the only History we feed our young at primary school is the Tudor period. There is so much more to our history than just King Henry the eighth and the bits and pieces we now teach, hence a detachment from the history of the past hundred years which was my point regarding the lack of engagement from our younger generation on remembrance day.

London schoolchildren are not the only ones in Great Britain who lack awareness and respect for those who serve our country past and present and it has nothing to do with what cultural background they come from, our forces of the future will no doubt be filled with people from various cultural backgrounds, but they will still be British.

2trueblue

It was very sobering to see the list of those recently killed and look at the span of ages of those who have given their lives in this current conflict.

I take exception that anyone should suggest we drop the religious aspect of the cermony, that is for the Queen to decide, she is the head of the church in this country.
I don't care what people perceive this 3rd millenium to be, this is a christian country, despite the Labour government and their efforts to change it.

Denis Churchill, I don't care where their ancestors come form, the history of this country is the history of this country, not a pick and mix choice to suit everyone. You come here, you go to our schools and you learn about the country as well. That lack is maybe why there is so much ignorance. WE ARE the only country to take such an attitude. As you stated further above it is the only country where nationalism is discouraged. When in Rome do as the Romans do!

This brings us back to our wonderful current leaders who have spent the past 12yrs. trying to change the face of Great Britain. Time to get rid of them.

TomTOm

TomTom - nice bit of alternative history there. I bet you think "Oh what a lovely war" gives an accurate and balanced picture too.

Snide comment. No facts. No debate. Simply snide with reference to a musical. You are clearly stupid or a dolt.

Vulture

Ken&Andy@ I apologise if I have done our French friends an injustice. I was thinking of the state of French war cemeteries on the Somme - many of which are shabby, crumbling and overgrown in comparison with their beautifully kept British neighbours.

German cemeteries, though immaculately kept - are eerily unvisited by Germans.
In a way one can understand this: the dead of the Second World War carry a big charge of embarrassment in that they died fighting for an evil regime. The German dead of WW1 (including many Jewish Germans) are simply (and sadly) forgotten.

In general, I think that the two world wars cured Germany of its previous militarism; but the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of pacifism. I was encouraged by an interview yesty with the new German Defence Minister in which he hinted that German forces in Afghanistan might take a more forward role. We could do with a bit of old fashioned Prussian militarism there.

George

To say that the young are not interested in memorials is an over-simplification. When I was a teacher, I took a school trip to Ypres and Tyne Cot.The normally boisterous youngsters were moved by what they saw, and treated the places with great respect.
At school, when the two-minute silence was signalled on Nov 11th, it was observed with dignity.
Of course, there are some stupid and insensitive youngsters, but at this time, when deaths in Afghanistan are an issue worrying all the most thoughtful young people (whichever side of the political debate they are on) remembrance has become a more important issue than it was say ten years ago. The drunken student who urinated on the war memorial is a horrible exception, and would be treated with scorn by most of his generation.