From maladroit to managed

Vulture

Like Dave's 'lock' on further EU integration, Postman Pat's 'lock' on immigration is a case of bolting the stable door after several million horses have cantered INTO the country.

Pat says that Liebour have 'managed' immigration. They certainly have: managed to turn huge chunks of this country into not-so-little Islamabads. One can only hope that they suffer the electoral consequences.
If that means a BNP presence at Westminster, they only have themselves to blame.

Incidentally, you hypocritically lament the absence of a debate on immigration : how about giving us one here on Coffee House where we are all still eagerly awaiting Fraser's long-promised post on Neathergate.

Alexandrovich

Is this the much promised 'addressing' of immigration and Neather?

Geoff Miller

Johnson says:-

“Part of its (the BNP’s) attraction is that it is raising things that other political parties don't raise."

That's good then isn't it?

"It would take the absence of a national debate as the green light to distort the debate."

How can you distort a debate that you have just said is absent? Labour has REFUSED to hold the debate. the Tories have hidden under their desks. Its the most important issue to the British public. It HAS to be debated and the public voice heard.

"It has absolutely no inhibition about lying about these issues."

That is rich. Labour has done nothing BUT lie about immigration - as with most other things.

The BNP tells the truth. The British people know its the truth. They know the mainstream politicians are all liars, crooks and Quislings.

And that's what is hurting the LibLabCon merchants.

Time for change WE can believe in.

Chris

I'd just like to say 'Neather,' in the vain hope that the tinfoil hat brigade will stfu.

Andy Leeds

God's death. This lot really are morons. We all know what the BNP have gained popularity, and in solid Labour areas. And who are scum bags like Johnson and Hain to say with which elected representatives they will and will not speak to ? Arrogant scumbags. We, the people, decide who are grace with our votes, not them.

Colin

These people should just be ridiculed and vilified in equal measure wherever they go.

The time for treating them with respect is long gone.

Colin

I'm talking about hain and johnson, of course.

Rhoda Klapp

We don't need an open door policy, one has been given to us by the EU. Right or wrong, we in the UK are not in fact in control of numbers immigrating to this country. We are in partial control of where they come from.

It would be a mistake to regard net immigration as the crucial figure when discussing social or cultural effects. If a British citizen retires to Spain, or leaves to look for better prospects elsewhere, and a non-anglophone untrained person arrives on a truck, this is not zero sum. It is likely to be negative (debateably). But it is not moot. We need a proper debate, but we aren't going to get it from the likes of Johnson and Hain, who know the answers already, without going to the trouble of finding out the truth.

Rainer Unsinn

Has Johnson addressed the Neather claims? No.

Will he? Not unless he really has to.

Why not? Because he knows only too well what the Times has recently found out

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6907991.ece

Crucially, they attempted to hide documents that should have been released to an FOI request.

David Ossitt

“Part of its (the BNP’s) attraction is that it is raising things that other political parties don't raise”

Wrong; its attraction, is that 95% of what the BNP has to say, in particular on Europe, immigration, enforced multiculturalism, the silly pandering to Islam that has resulted in great swathes of our inner cities are now Islamist enclaves.

“Like Hain, Johnson will not share a platform with Griffin to discuss the issue. Rather, Johnson will proclaim, from the comfort of a TV studio, that “immigration has been a good thing for this country”

Like Hain he states this as though it were a virtue, when in fact it is the exact apposite, he and Hain are cowards, moral cowards at that, neither of them dare to publically debate with Griffin, they each have too many skeletons in their cupboards and are terrified that these old dirty bones would be let out, for all to see.

Frank P

Melanie has once again made up for the editorial deficiencies of this magazine in her Daily Mail column today by synthesising the covert disparate strands of Leftist history. Yet another seminal work.

Occasional Ostrich

Is 'maladroit' the new word for 'incompetent'?

Is 'absolutely' the new word for 'yes'?

Irene

Too little too late I'm afraid.

Dorothy Wilson

Rhoda K is absolutely right. And if Labour has managed immigration what about the story in yesterday's Sunday Times [News section, front page] headlined: "Home Office ignored risk of dangerous immigrants".

According to that in 1999 "officials agreed to fast track 337,000 applicants with minimal checks".

So much for Labour's approach to managing!

Nicholas

Protest comment on behalf of all commentators on immigration and EU issues being stereotyped as insane, window-licking, extreme right-wing, ranting, foaming, foam-flecked, aged, racist, Daily Mail reading, Little Englander, etc., etc.

Ben

You mention 'net immigration'. What we want to know is how many are coming in and who are coming in. My guess is that we are losing more and more educated people and bringing in people who are a drain on the economy.

Carroll Barry-Walsh

It's not just about numbers but about the type of people who come here. 108,000 Frenchmen coming here is one thing; the immigration of 108,000 people from Pakistan raises quite different issues. This is what must be debated.

jon

The average emigrant leaves with £143,000. The average immigrant arrives with close to £0.

Boudicca

I don't agree with your comment "there is a need to defeat the BNP."

Why? The BNP is a legal political party. It appears to have been far more truthful than Labour in its comments about the Government's policy towards immigration and various other matters. Whether you like it or not, it is representing the views of a substantial minority of the country - and not just 'indigenous' Brits. Many people from ethnic minorities who settled here after the war are disgusted at Labour's importation of 3rd world terrorists and criminals.

The BNP should be encouraged to moderate its views and adopt a more moderate approach to achieve its aims. That is all.

I don't support the BNP. But I'd rather see them moderate and succeed, than ever again see a Labour Government.

Liz Brown

"successive Governments"? I assume that he refers to Liebour from '97 till now. This appalling Subgovernment has positively encouraged immigration.
And now they have handed our control over over immigration to Brussels and Johnson weakly says that the BNP is becoming more successful - what the hell else does he expect the voters to do?

Dennis Churchill

I thought Johnson was “Relaxed” about immigration and population projections not so long ago. I wonder what Labour’s polls are telling them.

Frank P

Nicholas

Protesting to the deaf in the suites of Old Queens' Street is pointless; to the streets! ... around them!

We need a new party of the right to absorb the the disaffected conservatives who believe that the Tory Party no longer represents them. I nominate Daniel Hannan as the guvnor. he's young enough, bright enough and leary enough to pull it off. If he sets up an interweb fund I will contribute my spare score of obsolescent pounds Sterling. I'd bet there are millions more out there. That's how Obama picked up a head of steam - from web contributions (plus the graft from the multifaceted Chicago machine). I'd even go on-the-knocker for Hannan; would make a change from the boring constitutional to keep the joints working in HM Sandringham Country Park. Might even slip a leaflet through her letter box; does she have the vote, btw?

Hannan should make a pitch. However, my chip-in would be dependent upon his undertaking not to continue to bum Obummer's load: one aspect of his ethos that I can't fathom. Perhaps he's like to explain it himself?

I'm serious, gang. I bet he could get a better shadow cabinet together than the current puddle of dogpiss. I know its a bit late in the day, but it might, at least, make the Cameroons address some of the issues we 'window-lickers' hereupon have been highlighting, but which have Neather been properly addressed by Cameron's agitprop. I wonder who barred Nelson from keeping his promise?

Naomi Muse

"Occasional Ostrich" asked: November 9th, 2009 10:03am -
Is 'maladroit' the new word for 'incompetent'?"

Perhaps more literal translation as far as the postman is concerned, and being 'Bad Right'.

Absolutely has always been a word for 'Yes'.

Frank P

Btw; I'm reminded f the old wartime song: The Seigried Line (and I paraphrase):

Whether the Neather my be right or wrong
Have you any dirty washing Fraser, Dear?
We’re wanna hang out the washing on the Coffee House line
If your cojones are still there?

Nick

"The average emigrant leaves with £143,000. The average immigrant arrives with close to £0."

Is this really true ? Every single house over £5 million in my part of London appears to have been bought by an American/European banker or a Russian/Middle Eastern businessman.

Watt Tyler

Look at the language he uses. He talks about the rise of the BNP due to a lack of debate. There hasn't been a debate because the Labour/liberal-elite thinks that it knows what is best for us already - i.e. a different sort of Britian. So they have acted without consulting us - that is what he is admitting. It is this arrogance that is seeing the rise of the BNP.

(At this point we should discuss Neathergate... No takers?)

And in fact, when the BNP try to bring this to the public arena, the elite tell us that they are lying.

The liars are the politicians, and the journalists who tell us that Labour have only been maladroit when we all know that they have been deliberately scheming.

The first step in the war against them is to cancel your TV licence. They would have a tougher time selling us propoganda if the BBC fell.

Frank P

Nick

" ... my part of London" ??? Hmmmnnn! Which Billionaires' Row: Bishop's Avenue or Kensington Palace Gardens?

Try Peckham, Brixton, Balham; etc. Or the SS Republics of Brent or Tower Hamlets.

2trueblue

G Miller, the tories went to the country on the EU, the electoratr returned Labour.
The tories went to the country on immigration, the electorate returned Labour.

Just thought would point that out.

Labour have mismanaged pretty well everything. Immigration and EU are two big issues they denied us any say on. They had their own agenda, and were not interested in what the electorate had voted for or wanted. That is why the BNP is now a threat to them.

BNP are going to take seats in our next parliment and lets hop they take them form Labour. Dialogue has been denied on a lot of subjects by Labour as they are collectively an undemocratic, unpatriotic, selfish, group of individuals who have enjoyed a great majority in the house of commons and pushed through the most appalingly thought out legislation. The volume of laws passed is eye watering, and lacks quality.

Roger Davies

Mention the word "immigration" then the "BNP" light flashes, mention the words "failed economy" then the light "incompetent Communists" flashes. I would prefer to have a number of odious BNP MPs than the so called ex-Communists that fill out Labour ranks. At least the BNP supports the UK whilst the Labour Communists seek it's destruction.

Nicholas

Peering out from under my tin-foil hat, adjusting my Cross of St George dressing gown and wiping the spittle from my keyboard, may I just observe that Neathergate has been somewhat upstaged by the FOI revelations regarding the 337,000 risk analysis lite fast track immigration "checks" (or lack of them) and the government's attempts to prevent the disclosure of this scandal. (This is the same government that has introduced draconian legislation for the indigenes on the basis that they need to be protected from the risks of domestic and imported terrorism and crime - the irony seems to have escaped them as has the ability to add 2 to 2 and make 4).

A few decades ago this revelation would have brought a government down in ruins and shame. Now political correctness and bien pensant bollocks is so far entrenched in the commentariat that the shock horror posturing and sneering contempt are reserved for those poor citoyens who dare to comment about it.

We the unworthy, not always being of mixed race or white working class background do not have the "first hand experience" to qualify us to articulate a view. We must therefore be silent and read the blogposts of our betters without comment, lest we be lampooned and stereotyped as right-wing untermenschen undeserving of serious engagement.

I now doff my virtual tin-foil hat squires, young gentlemen all, knuckle my forehead and withdraw backwards, half-crouched and deferent to your all seeing, enlightened superiority and to reflect humbly how much more effective the post-1997 class system is in dividing and ruling to the one which went before it.

Ken

I'm beginning to wonder if a BNP victory at the GE might be best.

It would be a massive dose of salts to the system;
It would confront immigration and Islam;
It would clean out the Rotten Parliament;
It would provoke heart attack among the Guardianistas and heartburn for Specci writers;
It would drive a wooden-stake into the Communistlabour party, its entryists and fellow travellers;
It would shakedown the other mainstream parties stirring philosophical rebirth?;
It might allow for some return to Common Sense in daily life;
It would give voice to the politically disgusted;
It would shock the EU with possible beneficial results.

But it ain't gonna happen ...

However what is still happening is the massive meltdown threat to the US and UK economies caused by the throat-lock still employed by the bankster class.

Its Neatherland and criminals in high finance (and their political allies) that need a blogging.

Boudicca

Frank P
November 9th, 2009 11:11am

I'll go on the stump with you.

I hope Labour is annhialated after the next election because we badly need a new Opposition. One that actually represents what a majority of the people of this country want. Hannan's the man.

Yarnesfromhorsham

Bit late in the day to find the truth. Why fight in Afghanistan when the terror is already here?

London Calling

If we were to have a sensible debate about Immigration and the effects it has had
It would have two outcomes, first the exposure of incompetence by the Government to control it and secondly a backlash of anger by the public which would inevitably turn towards immigrants themselves creating social unrest. At present the Government have only two realistic options, to get tough at home and on our borders.
More resources are needed to remove the one million illegal immigrants that are already here and there needs to be a more realistic quota on how many have entered, are entering and can enter in the future of our small Island.

Multiculturalism has been good for Britain, but too much isn’t, even those who are second and third generation of immigrants agree that we have a social crisis, housing crisis, employment crisis and the recession has bought these issue to the forefront. How sad for Britain that it takes the BNP to harness all these issues and speak openly when all other parties have buried their heads in the sand. The issue is not what we can do about the colossal mistakes made, but what we can do to secure the future
from the inevitable civil arrest as a consequence. Meanwhile the bulk of our Army
is abroad fighting someone else’s war on our behalf whilst a more serious one is brewing at home.
I despair…the terrorists are already here living amongst us…and in that respect
Melanie Phillips is correct…’Multiculturalism can seem to kill’, the problem is we seem to like the fluffy version at present…

biggestaspidistra

"Multiculturalism has been good for Britain"

why, LC?

Noa Zrk

London Calling @ 1:53pm
"...Multiculturalism has been good for Britain...".
Can you please explain what the benefits of multi-culturalism are?

Frank P

Londonistan Cloying

"Multiculturalism has been good for Britain,"

That may be your opinion, but it doesn't accord with the views of most of the punters hereupon. Nobody denies that a measure of racial mix is good for any country, but the establish culture and customs of the country should prevail. When newcomers come in too large numbers, many of them illegally and try to import and foist upon us a culture based on a religion founded in hate; intent upon conquering the Globe with force if necessary, then something has to give, or blood will flow. In fact it should flow if we we have any resistance left in the benighted sod.

Frank P

Boudicca

"Hannan's the Man." Who will print the t-shirts for us? Great Slogan.

In fact make it two lines on the caption:

Cameron's the C-c-c-c-c-coward!
Hannan's the Man!

Toni

As a commentator above says A BNP win would do ALL of thIs:

"It would confront immigration and Islam;
It would clean out the Rotten Parliament;
It would provoke heart attack among the Guardianistas and heartburn for Specci writers;
It would drive a wooden-stake into the Communistlabour party, its entryists and fellow travellers;
It would shakedown the other mainstream parties stirring philosophical rebirth?;
It might allow for some return to Common Sense in daily life;
It would give voice to the politically disgusted;
It would shock the EU with possible beneficial results."

SOUNDS GOOD TO ME! And it CAN happen Just takes a X in the box. The BNP is the only party that will deliver all this.

Verity

They weren't maladroit. It was deliberate policy. The immigrants were imported as a weapon against the British.

JohnAnt

'Maladroit'. Interesting choice of word for 'clumsy'. Norman French, patronising, understated. Not a word the underclass uses much. More of a dog-whistle to the bien-pensant middle classes
So it's just a case of 'oops, butterfingers!' is it?
No, I don't think so.

Verity

Hannan's the man. Yup. Works for me.

Verity

Frank P - Obama also picked up a gigantic head of steam from Saudi Arabian contributions. Don't know how they wangled it, but doubtless the values of the souk also apply in the Democratic Party.

Verity

Cameron is not popular. The only people who ever defend him work at The Speccie.

Marcher Baron

Maladroit? Not really; malevolent, malicious, malfeasance, malfaction, malignant, malign, malodorous and malpractice more like it.

.... .... ......

Frank P.
Read the article at lunch....excellent and quite alarmingly true.
How do we put everything the right way up though?
Alfie G

Roy Smith

"BECAUSE THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC EFFECTS ARE NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE". Now that is an admittance is it not? Nothing maladroit about that!

London Calling

Multiculturalism has been good for Britain because it has broken down the walls of prejudice and promoted diversity. The alternative, segregation, ignorance and racism is backward thinking and unproductive. Following the Second World War we required a large influx of immigrants to rebuild our economy. When the Immigrants arrived they were not fully welcomed and were in many cases refused accommodation whereby signs were put up in windows, No Dogs, No Irish, No Blacks.

The problems we now face due to mass immigration has nothing to do with what people think is positive or negative about multiculturalism but the consequences of the Governments policy to allow a continuous overwhelming influx of Peoples into Great Britain without consideration.

logdon

When multiculturalism opened the door to a monoculture it became self defeating.

How many churches in Saudi?

Mohammed's declaration that there was no room for more than one religion in the Arabian penninsular still holds true.

And that culture fanned by fanatical Wahabbi's is sweeping the world.

MikeF

The raw numbers of immigrants, as dictated by central government policy, are not really the issue. It is the spurious use of 'minority sensibilities' as a smokescreen for the systematic disparagement of established culture by local govenment and the quangocracy. The very people who are the first to decry the targeting of immigrants as 'scapegoats' for wider social problems are the ones who deliberately set out to create the resentments that provoke it.

Jez

Some more lies. Ace.

2trueblue

Verity, Cameron is not popular? What country are you living in? The last poll put the conseratives at 42% with every chance of winning the next election. This has not the case for the past 15yrs. What is it with you and Cameron? Who the hell else will deliver a new government? Get out and about girl and meet some new people.

daniel maris

Well some points:

1. Net migration is not the issue in terms of mass immigration effects. The people leaving the country are not necessarily those living in areas of high immigration. Moreover net migration disguises changes in the country. Would we really be happy if we had say 10 million immigrants from Pakistan and Afghanistan and 11 million emigrants from the his country, giving a net outflow of one million i.e. no net migration at all? No, I don't think so. This is about the cultural effects of immigration. Let's drop the bogus "migration" word.

2. We can't trust government figures. They have no idea how many people are living here illegally.

3. It is simply not possible to control immigration as long as we remain members of the EU.

4. What precisely are the benefits of mass immigration? I am not saying there are none. But nebulous statements need to be challenged. And if politicians are not going to admit the downside: a sense of alienation caused by being unable to communicate effectively with neighbours and shopkeepers; depressed wages; increased crime; importation of archaic social attitudes and practices; social tension and violence etc - well then, where is the honest debate. The idea that mass immigration is always an unalloyed blessing is absurd.

Noa Zrk

LC

What makes you think that the Irish and West Indians are from different cultures?
Who invented the term 'multi-culturalism' and why?
Do you seriously believe that the UK, the world's leading democracy in the 1960's and 1970's had serious racial problems?

Do you consider that the way to promote tolerance is to actively facilitate the mass immigration of millions of third world muslims to become benefits beneficiaries?
Do you want a curry that badly?

Amadeus Plonquer

Managed? This would appear to be some new definition of the term 'managed'. But we shouldn't use this to put down the future Lord Postman of Pat. The poor fellow hasn't had the benefit of a first class education like the rest of us as he was too busy finding ways to have his postie brothers strike and bring our nation to its knees. The Great High Postie has no management skills at all, so its no wonder he doesn't understand what management is.

This is the whole point of Labour - to allow people with no management skills whatsoever to manage one of the great offices of our nation. To learn on the job. Lifelong learning sort of thing. And a little downturn in the economy is well worth the price, what?

In short, Pat the Postman couldn't manage a fart at a baked bean eating contest.

Wattus Tyler

@2trueblue

Barosso WILL deliver a new government for you.

TomTom

We know Labour Policy on Immigration. They will never persuade the public they are right. Intimidation no longer works.

The BNP will be increasingly successful in The North and not simply because of Immigration but issues such as Law & Order; Identity; and simply because they have not been in Parliament stealing public funds while being arrogant and supercilious towards voters.

There is NO way Labour can counter matters which have a pre-revolutionary aura. The system is approaching collapse....maybe reading "Reinventing Collapse" would be advisable for these Ministers. They wanted to overturn the system in their infantile Marxist period but it is their System which is going to be overthrown. The Dustbin of History and the Labour Party are to be reunited.

The days are passing and Labour politicians should reflect how little time remains before their party melts away and union bosses can no longer play politics but must attend to their members' angry hostility.

London Calling

To Noa Z

LC
What makes you think that the Irish and West Indians are from different cultures?

I didn’t think that Noa…The British did at the time. I was merely pointing out what it it was like when the first immigrants arrived here in Britain.

Who invented the term 'multi-culturalism' and why?

The term ‘multiculturalism’ emerged in the 1960s in Anglophone countries in relation to the cultural needs of non-European migrants. It now means the political accommodation by the state and/or a dominant group of all minority cultures defined first and foremost by reference to race or ethnicity; and more controversially, by reference to nationality, aboriginality, or religion, the latter being groups that tend to make larger claims and so tend to resist having their claims reduced to those of immigrants.
http://www.answers.com/topic/multiculturalism

Do you seriously believe that the UK, the world's leading democracy in the 1960's and 1970's had serious racial problems?

Yes we did have racial problems. My Great uncle was an earlier member of Oswald Mosley’s Black shirts and I was told of later stories of when immigrants first arrived here groups of fascists including my Great Uncle drove around London in Vans and would randomly pick up Irish and and West Indian men, drag them in the back of the van, beat them up and when finished would throw them out onto the road. These racists attacks were quite common and very often unreported. I am ashamed that a member of my family behaved in such a thuggish way, but I am more shamed by the fact that my Great uncle’s mother was born to Irish parents.

Do you consider that the way to promote tolerance is to actively facilitate the mass immigration of millions of third world muslims to become benefits beneficiaries?
Do you want a curry that badly?

I think you need to read my previous posts with two eyes instead of one, I have made it quite clear that Immigration has become a serious issue due to the governments incompetence to control it.

I love a Vindaloo…and many other delicious foods from around the world, I am not sure Muslims will agree with your association with them to curry though :)

Bunnykins

On the parliamentary basis that the 'Ayes have it' I noticed a picture of Nick the Prick resplendent in poppy-adorned overcoat on one of the on-line tabloid front pages. Is he, like Gordon, visually challenged? I was startled to see he has something that can only be described as a Brown Eye.

Dennis Churchill

Bunnykinns
Clegg is a bit Multi himselve, isn’t he Russian-Dutch? Quarter English ancestry. Amazing how many of our political class have foreign parents or grandparents---might have something to do with Continental Europe often getting a bit dangerous for the political class there.

Geoff Miller

Why does the Government insist upon using the statistics of "net migration".

Its as if the composition of UK society is irrelevant - just numbers. Community, history, race, land and culture are irrelevant to Labour.

They just want to smash British society.

Not only are many Europeans returning home but many British people, and by that I mean native British, are leaving the UK.

We did.

Those coming in are largely third world and Muslim.

The future homogeneity and cohesion of the UK is under serious threat. In fact it's probably already too late.

Anyone who thinks that having a significant muslim population in the UK is anything other than a bad idea and a recipe for civil unrest is insane.

Before emigrating I lived in Tower Hamlets for 7 years.

I left because I saw the future for the UK - and it's not bright.