Brown on the rack

Vulture

The soft left is gearing up to remove Bruin, is it, James? And when is this removal going to take place exactly? And how?
If Bruin is on the ropes, why don't they wrap one around his neck and pull hard?
Because, as you know only too well,the two things that are softest about the soft left are their heads - and their balls.

General Zod

Polls since the beginning of October:

8 Nov 39 29 18 Con +10
5 Nov 38 24 20 Con +14
5 Nov 41 27 17 Con +14
29 Oct 41 28 16 Con +13
29 Oct 42 25 21 Con +17
25 Oct 40 27 18 Con +13
23 Oct 40 27 19 Con +13
18 Oct 44 27 18 Con +17
18 Oct 43 26 19 Con +17
16 Oct 40 23 20 Con +17
16 Oct 41 30 17 Con +11
15 Oct 40 28 19 Con +12
11 Oct 40 30 18 Con +10
9 Oct 43 29 16 Con +14
9 Oct 42 28 19 Con +14
9 Oct 42 28 18 Con +14
9 Oct 44 27 17 Con +17
8 Oct 45 26 18 Con +19
8 Oct 40 31 18 Con +9
7 Oct 43 29 17 Con +14
6 Oct 41 28 18 Con +13
5 Oct 40 27 20 Con +13
2 Oct 40 28 18 Con +12
2 Oct 41 29 17 Con +12
1 Oct 40 28 19 Con +12

One poll in single figures. Average lead of 14%.

JONNY

I signally fail to believe Miliband would do any better than Brown.
Does the country really want to be run by a wonky-faced juvenile geek?

TomTom

Brown cannot be removed before he dissolves Parliament. The option is simple....election now or election later. The Prime Minister decides. John Major chickened out of that and had a party leadership contest; that is not the way our system works.

Brown will be Prime Minister as dissolution; David Cameron might succeed him thereafter

Maggie

Charlie Whelan is being wheeled out to tell anyone who'll listen (ie the BBC) that Gordon Brown is a decent man who is being unfairly smeared by The Sun.
Unfortunately we all know that Gordon is a close friend and confident of Whelan, Damian McBride, Mandelson and Draper, and that like them he has spent the whole of his political life churning out smears, malicious gossip, innuendo and black propaganda directed at his rivals and opponents. The fiction of Gordon Brown the decent man being unfairly maligned just won't wash.

Ian C

The prospect of a single figure Tory majority, or a hung paliament for that matter, are the consequences of a combination of the dice loaded in Labour's favour under the current constituency boundaries and the esteem in which all politics is currently held.

It is the same everywhere in western democracies and is bound to be so long as we have political elites so cut off from their electorates by the politicians grovelling to and creating/enhancing supra-national bodies such as the UN and EU who want to do nothing less than impose unelected bureaucratic world governance on us.

It has gone too far and even a discredited government such as our current one (and by this time next year the present US administration and the new German coalition that is already rowing back on its commitments) cannot be easily usurped because of voter apathy and distrust in the worldwide trend to untrustworthy and incompetent governance and their subjugation to a 'world governance'agenda that is clearly afoot. This leaves the voter trusting noone as we are unwilling to invest hope in what appears to be useless.

Moraymint

Can someone please explain to me how the Tories can have such a pathetic lead in the polls and/or the Labour Party be so popular under the circumstances?

Is all this really to do with constituency boundaries, demographics and related arcane UK voting structure technicalities?

Or is Gordon Brown just brilliant and I am missing something?

Tiberius

I am one of those who has always thought Brown would never quit, and indeed may be so devious as to cancel a GE.

But Afghanistan is becoming the issue, and much of his previous support is turning against him (The Sun is a case in point). The casualties will sadly continue and he can't provide a casus belli.

I never thought I would say it, but I wouldn't now be surprised if he stood down.

Hawkeye

Moraymint - you missed two other possibilities

1. People consistently lie to pollsters

2. The bulk of the population are dafter than loons

It could even be "All of the above".

Verity

Moraymint - It's the leadership. The public is suspicious of David ("Call me Dave. Well, it worked for Tony ...") Cameron. He comes across as fake - i.e., he is all hat and no cattle; all presentation and pr schemes and no direction) Cameron.

James F writes: "he lacks the easy, public empathy of a Blair". Which one?

HK

Isn't the point that the Lisbon Treaty has now passed, so there is no further obstacle to an early election?

Labour can now take a more realistic view of its electoral chances - which means changing leader and calling an election before it has to start admitting that there will be horrendous spending cuts next year regardless of who wins (i.e. before next year's budget process).

John Lea

Would that be the same Blair who took Britain to war in the first place and then refused to meet the families of those soldiers who died in action?

Percy

I'm with Jonny, I can't see how Miliband would do any better, he's a joke and I only believe he has turned down the chance to be Europe's foreign minister because he wasn't going to get it.

Watt Tyler

Seeing that picture reminds me of the differences between the cultural eras of the last Tory government and the the present day Labour one.

In the 80s we had Spitting Image, and noone accused them of bullying John Major when they portrayed him in his entire greyness, eating his plate of peas (not to mention the whole cartoon thing about him in his underpants). Noone accused Spitting Image of bullying Margaret Thatcher when they portrayed her as a frothing horse-faced loon.

2trueblue

Maggie. Couldn't agree with you more. The BBC aired an old panorama on the present PM, C Whelan amd E Balls pulling a fast on on the BoE and really enjoying themselves. Would love to get hold of it and air it now! You are who you keep company with.

Brown has always flouted protocol. He insisted on turning up to dinners at the Mansion House in a business suit, until he became PM. Then he spent our money having formal suits made to measure.

Using his sight problem as an excuse for sending out a badly presented letter in such sensitive circumstances shows the calibre of the man. He then folowed it up with a phone call that was hardly an apology. 10 Downing St is a reflection of how this country is run.

Watt Tyler

p.s. Inevitable that the Labour spin machine is going to paly the Victim card. They know how well they indoctrinated the people in sensitivities about victimhood.

TrevorsDen

Moraymint

its boundaries etc.

A tory %age in the 40 - 42 region will give a comfortable majority. In 2005 labour got that with only 38 (?)% (Or was it 35% !!??)

On the hapless Brown. I repeat its not for Tories to comment on this its a private affair made public by the mother in question.
But I think it fair to say - Ultimately it seems to me sympathy must lie with the mother. It was Brown who chose to write the letter (and others) in the way he did. He is responsible for Downing St organisation.

In my view this is the latest and one of the most tragic examples of the fact that ALL of Browns decisions turn out to be suspect.
In govt Brown was ALWAYS an accident waiting to happen. He set us up for a fall as Chancellor and he is incompetently managing affairs as PM.

On TV last night one mother said she was grateful for her letter, another said she felt insulted by hers. This is the minefield into which Brown has walked. Its between him and the relatives.

What I will say outside of this is that I object to names being read out at PMQs. There is I am sure a better arena for such a policy.

Chuck Unsworth

Brown's Press Conferences are simply puppet shows these days - probably always were.

Still, nice to see Mr Punch get his come-uppance.

Vulture

@Moraymint:
Ummm................could it possibly be something to do with the fact that Dave and his team are a bunch of useless tosspot toffs?

Ken

@JONNY I signally fail to believe Miliband would do any better than Brown. Does the country really want to be run by a wonky-faced juvenile geek?" ... who enjoys flourishing bananas.

Yam Yam

The danger with the way The Sun are laying into Brown over his handwriting whilst publishing his burbling phone calls is that even many of his political foes (of whom I count myself one) are starting to feel a touch uneasy about how unseemly and personal many of the attacks on him are now becoming.

After all, the man can't help his poor eyesight or his scrappy handwriting. And at least he did personally write the offending letter of condolence - even if he spelt the name wrong.

General Zod

30% of the electorate will vote Labour whatever happens. About 34% will vote Tory whatever happens. Then the Liberals probably have a core vote of around 18%. That only leaves 18% to play for and you only need to look around here to see that many of those will waste their votes on UKIP or vote with their prejudices for the BNP.

crockhamtown

Concerning Brown's allegedly poor eyesight: yesterday there was a clip on tv which showed him editing a typewritten document. The type was of normal size. His face was a normal distance away from the document. Enough said.

Jez

Has anyone seen the letter?

It's a scandal.

My 5 year old can write neater than that.

Let's face facts;

A small task in a sea of others has now become too unimportant for the guy to take even the minimal concentration level to spell correctly.

This isn't a bandwagon jump, this is a fact.

And the latest attempt at recovery by Brown, his PR muppets and Nulab?

Can these people sink any lower, i ask.

LutineBelle

72,233 people signed a petition on the Downing St website asking Gordon Brown to 'go now'. (see his feeble response here http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page21213) In comparison, in the 2005 General Election, only 24,278 people in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath voted for him as their MP. He has not been elected as leader of the Labour Party but we're stuck with him until he decides to hold a General Election. This is so-called democracy in action.

Maggie

Having poor eyesight is not an excuse for sloppy handwriting. My 90 year old aunt who went totally blind 15 years ago still writes beautifully thanks to a cardboard "writing guide" freely available from the RNIB.

Jez

General Zod.

(My opinion) You are a muppet.

Vote for their prejudices?

Cultural oblivion of a liberal western christian district in approx 15 years time (max) like exactly whats happened to the district approximately 2 miles down the road from where my family lives and not wanting this to happen *is not prejudice*.

Conservatives will do nothing. Nulab will do something; increase the speed of the social transition. LibDem's;.... er, what do they do again?

Very funny, i know for many.

But not funny for us.

2trueblue

Yam Yam.
The reaction to the criticism comes because he created the situation, no one asked him to do this. The old addage 'if you can't do it well, don't do it. He says he has a problem, and still he did it.

Looking at Brown going through paperwork, (which is shown on the BBC) he is crossing things out and writing on the paper, the size of the font does not seem larger than usual, so either his sight in his good eye is reasonable, or it isen't. So which is it? Didn't we get some news earlier this year that all was well in the good eye? I am perfecly happy to make allowances,(I even have to make them for myself) but using this as an excuse is not on. Jsut shows you how well the old spin machine works. They will have us all in tears by nightfall.

Government should lead by example. And it is.

When other public figures are ridiculed for mistakes there are few objections.
The spin masters have turned this into 'Poor me'. Always play that card if you can, its called the 'get me out of trouble' card.

Liz Brown

I think the problem with the letter/phone call is that Gormless seems to have forgotten the purpose of the latter, which was to apologise and instead ended up in an argument, which was unfortunate to say the least
I too feel that there is a more appropriate forum for the roll call of the dead than PMQ. It becomes hard to make the point when thinking of the bereaved. Maybe the roll call should become part of the prayers which start each day's session

Irene

Labour/BBC/Sky are the ones playing up to Brown's writing and eyesight, I don't believe the Sun are.
Mrs Janes contacted the Sun - I think they have just reported her story.
I don't blaim Brown's spelling or eyesight.
It's the fact that he sent a condolence letter, of all things, with crossings out in it and thought it was OK to send like that.
I know I wouldn't even send a christmas card with crossings out in it.

Rainer Unsinn

I noticed, at his press conference, this morning, that he has kept with his routine of not answering the questions that were asked.

He was asked about the petition for him to resign. So, Brown waffles on as if the petition had been set up yesterday as a result of the letter.

John

Constituency boundaries and varying demographics don't affect national poll results hence don't explain Labours position in the polls. I think a better explanation is the percentage of the population whose incomes are dependent on public sector spending. This includes many in the private sector as well as those directly employed in the public sector plus those on benefits etc. Given that and considering that we have a multi-party system 40% plus of the vote is a strong position.

General Zod

Jez, being called a muppet by a BNP supporter/apologist is not something I will worry about.

Snowman

Personal attacks only engender sympathy, they are far removed from the parody of the Spitting Image; public polling in times of broad shifts in public opinion are totally unreliable – nobody predicted the nearly 1mn votes for the BNP; not only is it likely we may get a hung Parliament, we may get it on less than 50% participation of registered voters.

What puzzles is this. Even a quick scan of the blog universe from the Guardian to the Sun shows near a vitriolic rejection of the two main parties’ policies on Europe, immigration, and to a degree on the Afghan war. Yet neither party has shown any signs of accommodating any of it. Why could it be? Does their own private polling tell them that the blogs do not represent the opinion of the larger electorate? Don’t they care hoping that the anger and frustration will subside before the polling day, or what?

Tankus

DO you think that he doesn't get his letters proof read by a paid labour media flunky , as he wouldn't take "kindly" to having his errors pointed out , and then having to re write them , again, again , and again !

His choice of people to support him, are adding to his image problems .

Subrosa

TrevorsDen said:What I will say outside of this is that I object to names being read out at PMQs. There is I am sure a better arena for such a policy.

What arena do you suggest? The middle of a military airfield?

The House of Commons is where these warmongering political representatives we have vote to send our armed services to war. They and only they are responsible for the decision. If any are killed then it is only right the names are read out in the very room in which the decision is taken so lightly.

They have no shame these people. All the platitudes show no feeling except perhaps one or two think 'Thank God I'm not in the military.'

Tiberius

Why don't we ask the guy standing behind Brown if he'd like a turn at being Prime Minister?

brian kelly

One can close one eye and write a perfectly normal letter.

Please read carefully the following extract from the Independent today regarding Brown's letter. If true it is scarcely to be believed. Apart from the 'unwillingly' rather than 'unwittingly' presumably, he simply just cannot admit a mistake - it shockingly states that the reader misread it. It is paranoia.
'The Prime Minister's statement was issued after Downing Street came under pressure to make clear whether he accepted a mistake had been made.
"He has unwillingly, in writing a letter, caused this offence. Of course he is sorry for that.
"The hand-written letter clearly contains mistakes on the basis that the person who received it has misread those words," his spokesman told reporters.'

BigG

Right, have kept out of this 'til now but have to say my piece.
As a serving military officer I have written a few of these letters, sat with bereft wives and children, attended funerals. It doesn't matter if you do one, 10, 100 or 230, they NEVER get any easier and they are right up there with the most important things you'll ever do as an officer. Writing a letter, in my experience, takes several drafts if you're taking it seriously and some discreet consultation with the wise.

It therefore utterly beggars my belief (and indeed all I believe in), whatever GB's visual and writing impairments, that this crock of shit ever got into Mrs Janes' hands.

Whatever slack some are cutting GB, let me assure you this DOES matter and people like Iain Dale saying "well he was probably tired" miss the moral and welfare point by a country mile.

He should have done better by her, full stop.

Jez

I think the time to score points on the back of 5 British lads being murdered in Afghan' is 'not ever'.

My frustration at the present UK situation, both domestic and international, spilled over somewhat- and i should not have started slating comments i found incorrect / manipulations of the truth.

just one thing though GZ, you use a blanket term to describe 1 million people in the same situation across the UK.

You don't 'worry' about it.

no probs. That exact attitude though, may be the reason behind the above number of votes multiplying substantially to such a percentage where you very much have a nervous breakdown in a decade or so.

emil

Blah, blah, blah, poor eyesight, blah, blah, blah.

Didn't stop him signing the most traitorous document in British history though, did it?

Bunnykins

The truculent attitude of Brown in this pic reminds me of one Michael Foot. Minus the donkey jacket......

logdon

Brown on the rack
James Forsyth 11:34am

As in toast?

Who will pass the butter? Johnson? Miliband?

The choice between a red faced Cockney sparrer ex post man and a hereditary Marxist dilettante is not lost on the electorate.

Two sides of the same communist coin. Heads they lose, tails, likewise.

logdon

BigG
November 10th, 2009 5:07pm

Perfect, BigG.

General Zod

I don't worry about your description of me, Jez. I do worry that there are so many people like you.

oldtimer

Mrs Janes was interviewed on Sky News at 5. She stated her position and stood her ground very clearly. A few things that stood out for me.

She received the phone call c10pm Sunday evening; it was unexpected. Her neighbours (with her at the time) suggested she record the call.

Her son was a fifth generation soldier.

She has never voted in her life - and does not intend to do so now.

She took the initiative to contact the Sun because she believed the Sun to be pro Army.

Brown`s failure to get her son`s name correct for the second time (the first was when Brown got it wrong in the HofC) and the sloppy spelling triggered her decision to contact the Sun.

She said that other bereaved mothers had felt the same as her about Brown`s letters.

Based on what I heard, it seems to me that attempts say that this is all politically motivated are wrong. Brown is and was right to write to the bereaved but the most elementary things to get right are the name of the person and the spelling in the letter. I am not surprised that Mr Brown`s intended message of sympathy was lost.

JONNY

'Moraymint - It's the leadership.'

Then Moraymint you'd better try to get her to explain why this Leader comes out time and again more popular than this Party.
Not that she will. Not that she can.

Jez

GZ.

Ditto.

JONNY

And whilst you're about it Morayment, ask her about her favoured Leader Candidate William Hague.
Her very favourite boy seems to be soaring upwards to join the currently most disliked politicians in the UK, if I read my news correctly. And a top TV turn-off to boot.

Frank P

We have consistently reacted with anger and frustration, at times ad hominem, to Brown's incompetence in the major offices of government with which he has been entrusted. Politically we are justified in so doing as he has led our nations into the wilderness. His ineptitude in dealing with Mrs Janes and her grief is yet another example of his crass incompetence as The Premier.

Mr Janes dealt with the snidey interview on Sky with great dignity and aplomb. She made some excellent points about the M o D's failure to equip and supply the troops. Game, set and match to Mrs Janes! But to her it was no game. She has gritted her teeth in grief and gone on the offensive on behalf of her son's comrades-at arms.

There is another issue that needs to be seriously discussed. From personal knowledge of someone who lost a loved one who suffered Asperger's syndrome autism, it seems to me that much of Brown's behaviour could be explained by this dysfunction. He displays many of the classic symptoms. So those who are really to blame are those closest to him in politics, and should bear the brunt of his incompetence for choosing him to lead the government in the first place. We are bear-baiting when we should be excoriating the zoo-keepers. Many of them knew that there was something 'not quite right' with the man and a few of them of publicly said so. What with his gauche lack of social skills, his strange disconnect, his bullying of colleagues and his other physical impairments, why in God's name doesn't somebody lead him into a room and explain that he can no longer continue in office? Are they all cowards as well as cynical manipulators?

How much damage does he have to do before somebody shouts, Enough, already! God know what will happen if we have to suffer another six months of this insanity. He is the major threat to our national security. Al Q'aedea is a minor one by comparison.

Athesius the Facilitator

Please everyone, do not feel sorry for Gordon Brown. If this was happening to somebody else he would love it. Brown is a ruthless political animal and his Rotweiller pals like Balls and Whelan would be cracking open the champagne if this was happening to Cameron or Osborne. Remember Corfu?

Moraymint

Frank P

I agree with your line. For me, the rank cowardice of Brown's peers is becoming more of an issue than Brown's incompetence. And that's saying something.

Fragmeister

I trust that those who feel sympathy for Brown have listened to the recording. I just did. Brown sounds out of his depth, unable to do more than tractor stats and inanities. As someone who has two brothers-in-law in the Parachute Regiment who were begging my other brother in law in the USAF for desert gear because they hadn't got an on the eve of despatch to Iraq.

Marcher Baron

Yam Yam, the problem was entirely of Brown's own making; it's hard to feel sorry for somebody who threw his weight around and sulked until he was given a rifle that he couldn't handle, then deliberately shot himself in the foot because he wouldn't listen to any instructions. Brown schemed to become PM and is notorious about not delegating. He and he alone decided to write the letter, presumably in the full knowledge that he a) can't spell, b) writes atrociously and c) thought that sending out a letter with over-written corrections was better than re-writing it (I have seen the letter). What does that tell you about the man? It tells me his attitude is slack, sloppy, shoddy and he isn't fit to be in office. It certainly doesn't come across as sincere; rather it looks as though he thought it would curry some popular favour and help to gain him votes. After all, didn't he write to some footballer who missed a penalty and he also rang up Ms Boyle to enquire about her health?

Watt Tyler

Lampooning a person might not be fair, and predicated on false assumption and motivated by malevolence. It might be brought on through no provocation. This unfair prejudice, when extentuated through exageration of personal appearance and traits could be interpreted as bullying. However, no one accused Spitting Image of bullying when they portrayed Thatcher as a frothing horse-faced lunatic.

The criticism of Brown is based on a factual event. It was wrong for him to send a totally inappropriatly scrawled-in-pen letter, unchecked for errors, to a grieving mother. All the fire that he has drawn, he has drawn upon himself, and it is fair criticism - does Brown have the wisdom and judgement to run a country? The soldiers mother is correct to bring this contributory fact to the attention of the public. The eyesight excuses are being made by Brown and his camp. No one is attacking him because of his health. No one is bullying him.

Jesus wept!

King Prawn

James, if you was to replace Brown with Miliband, Miliband I would guess would not be a great PM.

However, Miliband taking over would result in a number of big-hitting Blairites returning to the Cabinet. I could imagine John Reid or John Hutton returning one as Defence Secretary, one as Foreign Secretary. I would bet either or both of these would give a far greater narrative on the Afghan War than Brown.

You would also see the return of the likes of Alan Milburn and James Purnell who offer greater narrative over public service reforms. I could also foresee the return to cabinet of Frank Field.

Obviously, Miliband would have to bring in some left wingers like Jon Cruddas, but Brownites like Ed Balls could be culled.

The thing about the Labour Party is that they have stopped fighting. With a new team like this in place they could at least put up a fight!!

egh

Moraymint @ 12:25pm: Re the polls --
Well the Tories aren't exactly inspiring anyone on the blogs, or anyone I talk to. Few people can see that they're any different from Liebour, or that they have the wit or will to begin solving the problems. Most of us want Independence for Britain: and most of them are ignoring it.

So... the polls. Who funds them? Who are the pollsters trying to please or impress? What questions are they asking, and how are they limiting the respondents? Who are their respondents, and why should we believe they represent all of us? Why should the Public (or indeed the politicians) trust or believe the results?
Honest answers to those questions might illuminate the issue....

logdon

Don't! He's a lovely, caring man. The BBC told me last night.

anne allan

John Reid as Defence Secretary? Wouldn't be the same John Reid who claimed we would stroll in and out of Afghanistan without firing a shot?

Ally

Terrible handwriting is no indicator of intellect. Perhaps Cameron has better handwriting than Gordon Brown – after all, he does have the benefit of two functioning eyes – but he lacks his basic decency. I find it really hard to believe that anyone could believe he'd make a better fist of such an impossible job.

Bartimeus

@Frank P

"From personal knowledge of someone who lost a loved one who suffered Asperger's syndrome autism, it seems to me that much of Brown's behaviour could be explained by this dysfunction."

This theory has been advanced before and I will tell you right now its RUBBISH.

People with Aspergers are by and large very precise , careful , thoughtful people. They have to be because Aspergers makes you like that. The thought that an Aspergers sufferer would write a letter anything like the pile of drivel that Brown wrote is quite offensive to me (as an Aspergers Sufferer).

Unless you are a clinical Psychologist with 20 years experience dealing with people who suffer from the condition , SHUT UP, you don't know what you are talking about and you are offending A LOT of people.

Oh and BTW , Aspergers is not a "dysfunction" , its a difference , a large number of people you know suffer from it , and most probably seem no different than any other person you know.

Keith

I'm going to post this comment here because there doesn't seem to be anywhere more appropriate.

Doesn't Brown have some serious questions to answer concerning the removal of the cricket from News International?

What was said in the conversation between him and Murdoch this week?

It would be outrageous for the government to be effectively selling the coverage rights to the ashes in return for political support. Yet this appears to be exactly what has happened.

Nobody seems to be kicking up a fuss about this. I want to know how the decision to remove the cricket for News International was made, when it was made and by whom it was made brecause I think the whole thing absolutely stinks like a classic stinking NuLab corrupt political stitchup.

Isn't anyone else interested in this? I suppose Cameron won't push it because he doesn't want to offend Murdoch himself, but it totally reeks.

Keith

Michael Booth

Ally
"Terrible handwriting is no indicator of intellect. Perhaps Cameron has better handwriting than Gordon Brown – after all, he does have the benefit of two functioning eyes – but he lacks his basic decency. I find it really hard to believe that anyone could believe he'd make a better fist of such an impossible job".

Quite agree that terrible handwriting is no indicator of intellect. Totally disagree Brown has 'basic decency.' Withour going into the full litany, I put it to you that a decent man would not have employed Damien McBride or countenanced his smear campaign: a decent man would not bully and intimidate his subordinates (as almost everyone agrees he does). A decent man would keep his electoral promise to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty (if he had any honour, that is) and a decent man would not give the go-ahead to use surveillance to pry into the lives of decent ordinary citizens. There is nothing decent about Gordon Brown - he is a deeply flawed, mendacious and tribal politician who puts party interest before country.