The Baroness and the bore: right for the EU jobs

David Lindsay

These are his wise words:

“The universal values which are in force in Europe, and which are fundamental values of Christianity, will lose vigour with the entry of a large Islamic country such as Turkey.”

A Bilderberger? Probably not. And anyway, George Osborne is a Bilderberger. They are harmless, since clearly they will let in absolutely anyone.

But certainly a Belgian, traditionally a very pro-British lot indeed, although there is some doubt as to whether historically or principal ally and trading partner on the Continent, a Kingdom of our own reigning House, can survive without his steadying influence.

And certainly one who makes a monthly Benedictine retreat. So, trying to create a Holy Roman EU? Most unlikely. In August, the CSU argued that a stronger say for the German Parliament over EU decision-making should not only be embedded in new legislation but also in the German Constitution. The CSU is a very Catholic party indeed: pro-life, pro-family, pro-worker, anti-war, at least broadly Distributist, the lot.

As in, for example, several Polish cases, or that of the Mouvement pour la France of Philippe de Villiers, the more Catholic, and thus committed to Christendom, a party is, the more hostile it is to the grotesque parody of Christendom that is the EU, itself part of "the West" as defined by the neoconservative movement rather than the True West that is Christendom.

The Neather Feather

Who let the Bilder-burgers in ?!

Meanwhile the National Debt Counter above is closing in on £29,000.

EyeSee

And that's the point, the EU isn't a state. Are you only visiting? I presume you haven't spent any time on this planet recently as the EU is a state, has always intended to seize control of sovereign states and become a superstate. These are its trappings. It is democracy that it has no time for.

David Ossitt

“The EU is not a state and should not become one, replete with directly elected leaders who espouse a vision that defies the will of the democratically-elected European governments.”

“If that needed saying to diehard federalists or paranoid euro-sceptics”

How dare you; what crass impertinence “paranoid euro-sceptics” we sceptics are not paranoid, we see a non-democratic EU and we hate it, we see a corrupt cess pit of financial skulduggery (is it fifteen years and no accounts signed off) and we hate it, we see a gravy train of bureaucratic miss-spending and we hate it but more important we see a constitution wrapped up and badly disguised in a monstrous treaty and we hate it.

It is the diehard federalists who are paranoid if they think that we will continue to allow them to steal our sovereignty.

Dorothy Wilson

The German Constitutional Court may have ruled that the Lisbon Treaty did not transform the EU into a federal state. However, according to Der Spiegel it also ruled that the EU of Lisbon did not satisfy the minimum requirements for a democracy of the type described in the German Constitution and that "the European Parliament is effectively little more than an expensive glass facade".

Scary Biscuits

How touching to see the German Constitutional Court held up as proof that the EU is not a state.

English speakers repeatedly forget that EU courts are not like Anglo-Saxon ones. In Britain the law, Common Law, is (or at least, was) supreme and we are all subject to the same set of rules. Ours is a bottom-up tradition (although sadly arthritic). It dates from the Golden Age (before the Norman invasion of AD 1066) and was formalised by the Magna Carta, AD 1215.

Europe's tradition, by contrast, is top-down. On the continent the courts are formally subservient to the politicians, which is a more ancient idea inherited from the Romans and as also practiced today by many Muslim countries.

The rules governing the European Court of 'Justice' is a good example of this. It's remit is not simply to arbitrate between two people having an argument (a more British concept of justice). It's remit is explicitly political: to promote European integration, as defined by the aptly named Treaty of Rome. The ECB has an explicit bias and supporter of Europe will have a greater chance of success in this court than an opponent. No longer are we all equal before the law.

Minnie Ovens

Rather like listening to a male ingenue.
Possibly The Spectator is attempting to diversify into the Beano and Eagle market.

denis cooper

It's certainly true that in legal terms the EU isn't yet a state; even post-Lisbon it will remain an international organisation established by treaty between its sovereign member states.

So why are the leading figures within this international organisation constantly behaving as though it is a state?

Legally the EU countries are still foreign to one another. I recall Heseltine on TV some years ago, asking whether anybody still thought of France and Germany as foreign countries, and as far as I'm concerned the answer was and is "Yes, I do, and I'm right because they are still foreign countries".

So how come that this international organisation which is not a state claims to have a "Foreign Minister", or even a "High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy", who obviously will not deal with the foreign relations between the still mutually foreign countries who are members, but only with the relations between those 27 countries and other foreign countries?

I can't offhand think of any other international organisation which maintains this pretence that its member states are no longer foreign to each other, when they are, while countries which are not member states are still foreign to all of them.

Of course that would be the true position if the member states were no longer sovereign states but components of a sovereign federation, like the USA, and the object of the pretence can only be to deceive their peoples, and the rest of the world, into accepting that this is already the case, in preparation for the day when the final legal step can be taken so that it actually becomes the case.

AAE

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . .

Occasional Ostrich

Minnie Ovens
November 20th, 2009 5:28pm

Minnie, surely you don't place the 'Eagle' in the same league as the 'Beano'?
Ah, but maybe you're too young to remember it???

Boudicca

If there's no need to be concerned about the development of the EUSSR, post Lisbon, you'd have let us have the Referendum we were promised.

The fact that it was SOOOOOO important to ram it through that we couldn't not be allowed our Democratic right indicates very clearly that indeed, there are plenty of things to concern us about it.

We should get out of the EUSSR.

Hawkeye

"The EU is not a state and should not become one, replete with directly elected leaders who espouse a vision that defies the will of the democratically-elected European governments"

That is a good point, one I had not considered. I knew that the Eu would pick the people who offended everyone the least, rather than the most skilled for the job. That these two have been selected speaks volumes for their ineptness.

If their appointment holds the EU back then I am all in favour of their "election".

Yow Min Lye

To be frank, I don't give a toss about Herman van-whats-his-name. I just want of this monstrosity that he is supposed to president of.

Fergus Pickering

I consider France a more foreign country than the United States. I consider Germany a more foreign country than Australia. Of course I do. Who does not? Americans and Australians speak our language. Frogs and Krauts don't. End of story. Well, not quite. Americans and Australians are traditionally our friends. Frogs and Krauts are traditionally our enemies. Who does not agree with me?

David Ossitt

Yow Min Lye

"I just want of this monstrosity that he is supposed to president of"

Spit it out Yow; what is it you want?

Battle 2807

Fraser Nelson,, what on earth has happened to the Spectator since you took over? I am greatly disappointed in your (non)reaction to the Neather scandal, despite being asked REPEATEDLY to comment.
And I believe you will rue the day that you denied us access to the magazine on line.
You were once my hero, but you have been nobbled in some way. Shame on you.

Battle 2807

Furthermore, you said about a week ago something about welcoming comments from Verity and TGFUKIP. Now, I have been offline for a week due to my daughter spilling a cup of tea on the machine - but it seems to me that we have heard nothing from either of them. Are they boycotting CH in disgust??? There will be more, mark my words.

David Lindsay

"Americans and Australians are traditionally our friends"

Australians, yes. But America was at best our rival, and frequently our enemy, right up until the First World War at the earliest. Our friendship with her is newer even than that with France. And probably doesn't run as deep.

I am no fan of the EU. But we need to get over America. She has never needed to get over us, and has a long history of preferring Germany, to which she has closer ethnic ties.

Fergus Pickering

David Lindsay, well it was fortunate that the USA didn't prefer Germany twice in the last century, wasn't it? And WHAT ties have we with France? Good God, we had to fight the cheese-eating surrender monkeys 1940-1942. If I have to pick an ally on the Continent, I'll have Italy, thank you very much, excellent food, excellent weather, incomparable towns and people who don't grouch at you all the time.

Yow Min Lye

David Ossitt

Apologies - "I just want OUT of this monstrosity that he is supposed to president of"

(Trust my dodgy proof-reading to fail to spot that the most important word had been left out!)