Playing politics with the public finances

Crooked Crocodile

If you were shadow Chancellor, with a possible five and a half months to go until the election, would you really lay out exactly which taxes you would raise and which budgets you would cut? This is lke a game of poker and they are right to play their cards close to their chest. Otherwise the Labour propoganda machine will go into overdrive and fighten off the electorate. Once the election campaign is underway they can lay out the detail.

Short the UK

Fraser,

Have you ever thought that they might not be up to the job? That the whole political class are a busted flush and that national bankruptcy is going to be a fact not a fiction? That it will be the IMF who will slash public spending?

I have been banging on here for a year that the Tories must attack, attack, attack. They need to go heavy, if they lose, so be it, but they must have a strong opinion and be frank with the public, for if the public don't want to face reality then so be it, we go bust and Labour is finished for ever. The long game is to let Labour win and then wait for their extinction, if Labour were smart they'd play the long game and let the Tories win, for whoever wins the next election could be finished for good. Party or country?

I think we are too far gone economically and that the gilt market will collapse in 2010 or 2011 and we will go to Event Horizon.

I think the only hope for our country is if the "media elite" truly wake up to this national emergency and start hammering into Labour and get a consensus from all the parties about what needs to be done to seek national salvation.

I now think we are in a stage of economic madness, Labour have gone mad, maybe because most folk don't understand a deficit or a balance sheet they don't realise the imminent danger, this is where the media need to step up a gear and explain clearly what is at stake if we don't sort out our fiscal position, also they must explain how important the City is to our tax revenues. These are basic narratives that must be driven home, daily.

If the public fall for Mr Brown then it will be all our faults for not putting up a fight for truth and justice.

This isn't party political this is about economic salvation - left, right, centre, we must come together to fight the madness of Mr Brown.

Charlie

Frazer, How can we stop this dangerous deluded Brown/Balls machine from spending yet more of our money that we dont have?

GENERAL ELECTION NOW please!

Jeremy

Two good pieces, Fraser - both here and in your linked newspaper column.

Simon Stephenson

So Stephen Timms is concerned about the Conservatives lack of detail about the areas in which they intend to make cuts, and encourages them to "come clean on their choices". All this before George Osborne's team can reasonably be expected to have conducted a detailed review of the public spending programme.

In the meantime, this is Stephen Timms in conversation on television with Jeff Randall:-

Randall: The Chancellor says he'll borrow £707 billion over the next five years. How much will that cost us in interest?

Timms: It depends what will happen to interest rates in the future. The Chancellor's set out how he plans to protect key frontline services, schools, hospitals and police and halve the deficit.

Randall: If you can predict borrowing, you must have a shot at predicting the cost of all this?

Timms: We haven't published forecasts and that would not be a sensible thing to do.

Randall: Are you saying that you don't know the cost, or are just not telling us?

Timms: We've done the right thing by allowing borrowing to rise just like every other developed country in the world

So here we have the same Stephen Timms getting all hot and bothered about the Conservatives refusing to pre-empt decisions that have yet to be made, having no more than a few days ago refused point blank to "come clean" about the forecast cost of Labour's borrowing projections - a forecast that must have been made as part of the PBR process, and which with his involvement in this exercise he must have known.

Could it be there's a regular internal Labour competition for who can come out with the most outrageous piece of hypocrisy, because, if so, Timms has set the bar extremely high with this display, which you quite rightly describe as breathtaking.

Billericay Dave

Maybe the tories are keeping quiet and waiting for the election to be called ? then go all out on the attack, something said now wont be remembered in 3 months time. Save it all for the last couple of PMQs before the election make it really bad for gormless and thats what the public will remember not something said before the chritmass break.

richardj

Maybe it is better to wait with the firepower till the election is called - lets face it the position is not going to improve and the attention span of most people now to what politicians say is somewhat short.

PAUL GILBOY

Labour are the party in power they control the treasury and all financial information. However, they will not hold a spending review or indeed articulate how they are going to slash the debt, currently running greater in interest payments than what we can spend on defence schools and a list of other government activities. As the government they are obliged to be specific the Tories are being kept in the dark like everyone else do not

Hysteria

Deer in the headlights? Or cunning plan? I guess we'll find out soon enough.....

Austin Barry

If the Tories continue to present a largely blank canvass to the electorate, the Labour party will scrawl on it whatever graffiti they want.

The Tories need a couple of election winning ideas. I suspect that were they to introduce a really eye-catching, democratic idea, like a mandatory, binding Swiss-style referenda called upon, say, 500,000 signatures, they would win hands down. But Dave won't do this, because it would undermine 'representative' democracy - to which the most appropriate response would be that essayed by Tom Gogarty TD in the Irish Dail last week.

Gawain

In my view the problem is the way politicians are selected nowadays. The three most senior Tories, Cameron, Osbourne and hague come from remarkably similar professional profiles. Oxbridge, Conservative research organisations and a teensy weensy bit of work in the private sector (to tick the right box in the cv you see). They behave like people who want to take over the reigns of power for an easy life and to further burnish the cv. You can then leave like Blair to make squillions. The last, the very last thing they want to do is to rock the boat, take a risk, upset anyone or stand for anything. To be fair to them, they are no different to most of the managements sitting on the boards of our public companies (even if you take the banks out of the equation how many of our companies are really well managed and competing well in the world?). They are, I am afraid, typical examples of the upper middle class in what has become a rather over comfortable, narcissistic country. God help us when someone finally turns the fan on and the doo doo that Labour are piling up starts flying !

Woody

Fraser
I wonder why no-one has commented on your article considering you posted it a couple of hours ago? Could it be like me they are getting a little fed up with the general tone of some of the anti-tory journalism on this site.
I know you are a Conservative but you and people like Peter Hitchen, Simon Heffer do so much damage with your constant sniping and whinging. Why don't you start getting behind them - time is getting short because I think Brown is going to go for an early election.

Nick

Osborne isn't stupid, neither are the rest of the Tory team at Central Office, and they have the evidence from hundreds of thousands of pounds of internal voting and focus groups to define strategy and tactics.

One can only hope they actually know what they are doing.

Stephen Byrne

What then are the three best theories for explaining why the Conservatives are "allowing themselves to be defined by Labour"?

Olaf Rye

Are these morons in the cabinet serious ? How can Labour possibly pretend that it is a party that does not wish to raise taxes--in fact, why should we believe anything they say, after having violated just about every ostentatious pledge they have uttered ? This is the most fiscally inept government in our lifetime, so to watch them promising more money after squandering so much on middle-management and sinking us into this morass, just makes one feel ill.

Holly ......

This will be Labour's undoing.Brown & Balls are so spiteful,they are probably giggling about their next 'cunning plan'.
What they don't realise that after the election they are going to the jobcentre.
To the staff their I say..FILL YOUR BOOTS guys & gals...make them beg.
The public KNOW they are liars and talk total rubbish.
The public KNOW labour are destroying the economy, families, jobs and company investment in the UK.
The public KNOW they are going to be made to pay for this through their taxes.
The public KNOW Labour WILL cut from the bottom.
The public KNOW the Conservatives WILL CUT from the top.
The public KNOW what Brown is doing and come the election he WILL BE FIRED!
For every Labour supporting comment there are thirty against.
We are not the only one's with the same opinion of Brown there are many,millions of us.

john miller

I've decided that since I am standing in cac up to 0.5mm below my nostrils, I may as well vote for a Labour victory. There won't be much difference in "governance" (hah!) but it will be fun watching what Labour do in the next 11 months.

That is, until the cac rises over my eyebrows and I cease to care.

andy

"talking about sums not adding up is simply breathtaking"... well said, as the coffee house debt counter top right clicks toward three quarters of a trillion. The entire labour outfit including this joker should be tried for treason and hung, drawn and quartered.

Tom FD

I wonder if the Tories are reserving their best lines of attack for the election.

Frugal Dougal

A friend of mine who works in a high-powered financial job told me last night that Britain is, as you imply, a whisker away from bankruptcy.

george

I agree with the last sentence of this article. The Left have been playing the Tories and the media like a drum - and have been getting away with it.

When will we start seeing some courage from the Tories?

TGF UKIP

Fraser, your final para is the relevant one here and as I've posted many times before it really is like watching a fight between one combatant wearing boxing gloves and going by Queensbury Rules while on the other side are six combatants carrying baseball bats, wearing knuckledusters and clogs and playing by Toxteth Rules. It really is no contest.

As for being defined by Labour - they obviously find it impossible to break the habit of the past four years.

Tapestry

If the Conservatives espouse fiscal responsibility, that takes pressure off Labour. The best hope is that the IMF has to intervene or the GBP falls before the election. If Conservatives run around sounding fiscally responsible that will encourage markets to hang on in there as Labour will soon be gone. Why help Brown?

gareth

please God - a Labour victory - the result of that would be definitive.
New Labour could have the same legacy as King John - which at least holds the promise of change - real change.
It's time to reap the whirlwind

Moraymint

People talk about the IMF sorting things out for us. However, can somebody explain the process please? Surely, the IMF must be invited to assist; they can't just bowl up at Dover and tell us they've arrived to fix Britain?

Holly ......

Gawain.
So we've got your take on Cameron, Osborne & Hague,who have all worked for companies,are well educated and Cameron was chosen by the party in a contest along with others.
Now, what's your take on Brown,Darling & Balls?

Mike Towl

Spot on FW. Why on earth the Tories sit back being generally all round good eggs to this inept bunch of socialist wasters is not only a mystery but a downright disgrace. It's all well and good shedding the label of "the nasty party" but not to the extent of adopting the "Brownie Pledge" as the party doctrine. Everyone knows that Brown, Balls, Mandelson et al. are a thoroughly unpleasant and duplicit clique, who you wouldn't trust to care for your Grannie's spare set of false teeth' and would do and say anything to save there skins, but they are making the running and it's working. Tje latest polls?? Who shouts loudest etc. What ever happened to the hard men and women of the Tories? Men with passion and courage who are prepared to spill blood for the cause, ruffle a few feathers, tell it like it is (or will be.)Okay Nadine, but who else? Who will expose the hypocrisy of the Labour party and counter it with honest proposals to restore the nations finances. The public know hard times are hear, they just want to know the price to pay for them. It takes Balls to tell the truth, and I don't mean the ED kind. Or are Dave and Co. relying on Ian Dale and Guido to get the message to the proletariat? If they are, I'm for UKIP (yes, even with their new fruitcake leader) and UK Plc is in for four more years of the Caledonian cabal. The only bright side of that is it won't be the treasury running the finances it will be the IMF. Oh. joy!

AndyinBrum

Does the IMF have enough cash to bail us out?

Moraymint

AndyinBrum

That was the other part to my earlier question that I was going to ask. I'd be very surprised if the IMF had the capability to bail out the UK. That'll be left to us citizen serfs, our children and their children ... whilst the politicos continue to look after themselves.

Woe is me.

Yarnesfromhorsham

Agree with "Short the UK" Why dont the Tories score the obvious goals against Labour - the lies, the failed initiatives, double counting etc etc. Given that the general level of public connection/ appreciation of whats happening is exemplified by the inept programmes on BBC TV1 and ITV it is up to the media to get the message across.

denis cooper

I suspect that most people, the voters, have only a dim idea of how perilous our situation is, not because they're stupid but because their principle source of information is TV.

The main channels - not just the BBC - all seem to be taking the line it will be sufficient to have a plan to reduce the budget deficit so that the government can carry on borrowing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean your National Debt Counter will forever clock up higher and higher numbers, and we'll never see them coming back down?

Only a minority would be prepared to run their personal finances on that basis, but if TV conveys the message that it's OK for the government to do it then they may feel that they don't understand enough about the national finances to question that.

Nicholas

I'm afraid it all comes down to the tribal success of the Left. Trendy lefties would rather have the pretence of New Labour, the worst government in British history, in power than the Tories. They would vote for a stuffed glove puppet if it was wearing a red hammer and sickle (don't fall for that English rose nonsense). That goes for the BBC, especially the BBC. Beneath the trendy leftyism lie the beating hearts of devout Marxists (q.v. Marcus Brigstocke), cloaking their sinister aspirations in the coded language of the brotherhood of the left (which mainly involves attacking the Tories at every opportunity), pretending the middle ground - precisely how Blair seized power.

The conservatives on the other hand would rather whinge and moan about the leadership of the party, speculating about how useless Dave is or how like Labour. Lamenting the lost referendum and giving more power to the elbow of the New Labour propaganda machine. Dave's crew are, it seems, more interested in AGW and not scaring the horses than tackling the threat from the left.

However, my doubts about Dave are as nothing compared to my convictions about New Labour. The priority should be to see their power removed from them at the earliest opportunity, followed by their prosecution as criminals and traitors (especially Jack Straw, the hate crime advocate for English genocide and one of the architects of the criminal Neather Plan, in flagrant breach of the UN Declaration for the Protection of Indigenous People).

As I see it very few on the right have the balls or the determination to destroy the cancer of the left but that is not going to make me facilitate another Labour victory.

Andy in France

I think the Tories are right to keep their powder dry until the election campaign commences and liebour have released their manifesto.

Once that's happened the Tories can announce their policies without the fear of Liebour stealing half of them. They can also then start to fight dirty, though they won't have to point out to the public what liebour might do in the future, as they only have to remind the public of what they've already done whilst in power. The list of incompetence is endless and it'd difficult to argue against because we can all see the results of 12 years of Liebour misrule.

Naomi Muse

It is very difficult as we don't trust the politicians at all.

As they have even let this expenses and reform of parliament rumble on beyond the summer recess, instead of dealing with it properly and in a timely manner, we don't want any of the current bunch in power.

As such the lesser of two evils is Dave and his crew.

The overt and spiteful intent to damage the UK as much as possible on which Gordon Brown and the rest of the government have embarked is quite without precedent, and shows that none of them are fit for office of any sort.

Gawain

Holly,

Brown is a very strange man, totally unsuited to the job he is doing. He should be stuck away in some remote university producing abstruse academic articles that no one apart from similarly weird academics would read.

Balls is a dangerous, narcissitic creep, pure and simple. He would be the same in any career he chose. I wouldn't trust him giving out free copies of the Evening Standard, let alone running a newspaper stall.

Darling I perceive as being a little more grounded (at least he had a career in a serious profession before politics). His problem is he is a socialist and he is too weak to stand up to Brown/Balls.

My criticism of the Conservative leadership is that their experience of life outside politics is too limited. Working in a company for a few years doesn't really cut it for me. Compare them with McMillan who had fought in the trenches or Churchill with his back story ! Don't misunderstand, I will be voting Conservative at the next election, my fear is that inexperience will inhibit their chances of pursuading enough of the electorate to vote for them. What I think is almost irrelevant, I'm a disciple, its the millions of prospective voters watching Celebrity Get Me Out of Here, X Factor and Strictly Ballroom that have to be pursuaded.

John David Barnett

Not McMillan - Macmillan.

TGF UKIP

A brilliant, brilliant summary as usual, Nicholas, and while agreeing with you wholeheartedly I still cannot go as far as an intention to vote for Cameron. Indeed, I consider him and his creepy clique only marginally less odious and sinister than the Brown gang.