Harman thinks that parenting skills are all about income

In2minds

“you can’t separate out good parenting skills from family income.”

Hypocrisy plays a part too. I see atheist David Miliband is sending his son to a faith school.

seb

For millions in the UK, the family income referred to by Harriet Harfabrain is the apparent largesse doled out by the state. Harfabrain, of course, is still hoping that large numbers of Labour's core supporters will carry on believing that the largesse comes from the sharing, caring Labour Party rather than from taxpayers.

Verity

That exclusive school she went to didn't serve her very well in English lessons, did it? What the hell is 'separate out'? Do you think she might have meant 'separate'?

'Separate out' is a pleonasm, Ms Hormone. Circumlocutory. Flatulent. And batological. Which makes sense as Ms Hormone is a Marxist moonbat.

Sally Chatterjee

It's a typical Labour concept from recent years, the actual outcome (good parenting, happy children, healthy lives) doesn't matter. All that matters is being able to boast about "lifting children out of poverty" when actually dragging a family income across some statistical/income line in the sand is a near-pointless exercise, especially since so much is channeled towards the easy ones, eg in employment, able to receive tax credits, instead of the hard to reach cases.

anne allan

Thus spake the niece of an Earl.

JohnRS

Good grief, will someone please loan this madperson a brain before she sets pen to paper again?

Michael Booth

Please don't credit this woman with anything resembling common sense - with every word and every breath she presents herself as a marxist fruitcake.

Irene

That woman!

The Tories should sieze on this and use it at every given opportunity.

So if you are poor (labour's core vote) you are a bad parent.

Beer Moth

Oh, brave new world of 'parenting skills' and 'child outcomes'.

strapworld

It was a great mistake to allow women to vote! Perhaps it is time to withdraw that right.

wonderfulforhisage

Correlation does not imply causation. IMHO this applies to income and good/bad parenting and also to marriage and stable relationships. Offering tax bribes to couples to encourage them to tie the knot will not change their relationships.

Moraymint

I presume Harman's greater point is that the mission of government, therefore, must be to extract money from people who have good incomes (for whatever reason, including honest, hard work ...) and siphon it towards those who don't have good incomes to, er, make them better parents?

Stealth-Marxism in action again ... and look where that's got us after 12 years of the nonsense. Will these Labour Party wallahs ever get the message?

abraham

she is absurd. If anything, the higher income goes, the more absent the parents seem to be (bording school, nannies etc).

labour will say anything, literally anything, if they think it will either score them votes, or cost the opposition votes. Harman personifies this more than any other, with maybe two exceptions of Brown and Balls. But even then, it is close amongst those three. shame all we can do is vote them out, i would prefer to see them tarred and feathered.

Sir Graphus

You have to consider who she’s trying to talk to. It would be a mistake to imagine she’s trying to attract Labour votes in key marginals; these people are thoroughly sick of her constant ewe-man rights infantile feminism. But the Labour party will soon elect a new leader, and all the other candidates are falling over themselves to look like variations on the general theme of centre ground type people who might win a general election. She’s taking a completely different tack; an appeal to all the ex-student union wimmin-against-racism types who still exist in huge numbers, still believing Harman’s absurd state enforced equality for a sexes, sexual orientations, ethnic origins, religions (except Christians, obviously).

She’s taking a gamble that the Labour party is sick enough of Blair-types to her type who seriously thought that renaming the student union “Nelson Mendela House” was a serious blow to the Apartheid regime. She will make a speech saying it’s a woman’s turn to be leader. At the very least, she reckons, she’ll have a enough votes to carry on being deputy leader.

Peter Golds

My late father was an unskilled engineer, my late mother was a shopworker. They raised three sons (the youngest with severe learning difficulties) starting in a tiny flat with no bathroom. They gave us everything they could and more. We were clean, clothed and fed.

This ridiculous woman is the daughter of a Harley street surgeon and born to privilege we could not have dreamed of. An example of which was her behaviour in her little car accident.

Yet she comes out with remarks that are the equivalent of a student marxist.

Please, do not treat her with anything other than the contempt she deserves

Tiberius

Well who would now argue with Michael Heseltine when he said in 1997 that the public were in danger of sleepwalking into a Labour government?

Bob Ainsworth has apparently let it slip that 6 May will be election day. The public will finally have the chance to reverse its narcolepsy, and boot Brown, Harman and the rest of the hyenas out of sight.

The Tories are 12-1 on to win.

THX1138

Aren't the Tories saying pretty much the same thing with their Marriage tax bribe.. If ain't about money why the tax break?

Unfortunately, If you read "Freakconomics" good life outcomes for children do pretty much come down to the income & social status of the parents.

JohnBUK

So there's no answer to the problem then. After all removing funds from the current "best parents" and handing to the "worst parents" will leave the general average exactly the same! We're all doomed!

Vettekulla

Dear Harriet, elitist through and through - like most of her fellow cabinet colleagues.

Simon Too

The deputy leader of the Labour party says that the poor are inevitably bad parents! What is the next Labour poicy then? Conmpulsory sterilisation of the poor?

Perhaps it is for the best ... in their own interests ... they would have wanted it anyway ... now, this won't hurt a bit!

Watt Tyler

No. Having money does not make it easier to raise a child. Raising a child is about instilling principles for life. Indeed, having money might make it easier to spoil a child.

Jeez louise. Dontcha gotta despair at the whole bloody lot of the chatterati? They should not be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.

London Calling

Research by St Robert Winston’s on this subject is a good source for information that supports the view that a Childs chances are seriously reduced by social stereotyping rather than unloving parents…

“Our genes, we are told by scientists, can make us intelligent, timid or perhaps gay; but can they make us snobs? Surely not. So who's to blame? The environment in which each child grows up? The parents?”

Bad People Live In Small Houses – Sir Robert Winston

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/3634354/Bad-people-live-in-small-houses.html

Time will Tell

Strapworld
You of course are quite right - it would mean we would be free from the Harmans and Teathers of this world.

2trueblue

What do you know about poverty, Ms Hanman? Are we talking purely about money?
There is poverty of the mind, ideas, manners, knowledge, aspiration, etc., and then there is pure ignorance like yours.

Your statement says more about you and Liebore, and how you have run this country. This statement alone is proof that you understand nothing about life, and how to run this country.

How disconnected is the Liebore party from reality?
This shows that they have no idea about anything. It is not all about money, but you Harriet are hardly qualified to judge. I won't give you the story about being one of 13 children etc. because you could not even begin to understand that people build good cohesive units and that it is not all about the money.

You have just insulted all good but impoverished parents throughout the country, who consider that they have, and actually do have good parenting skills.

It takes discipline, a great deal of love and sacrifice, application, faith, nurturing each person as they come along, teaching them how to make the very best of everything, respect for themselves, others and the law.

The above are not linked to money or income. It is not all about the money, class or status. Cameron does know that. He may not have all the jigsaw pieces, but he does know that each child is entitled to a chance to grow up in the best environment possible, and it is not all about the money.
Child poverty in this country has grown during your governments reign, and this has been achieved by your government who dare to tell us that you know best.
Leave, you know that we need you to leave, please.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

I disregard everything this vile, unnatural female whinnies. She cannot understand that compassion combined with solid family values and good old fashioned morality stand for more than money. Correction: She understands very well, but wants to further destroy the very fabric of British family life and ensnare more pathetic benefits dependants into her web. The more potential Nu Labour voters, the more power and of course money in her greedy hands.

David Dickinson

This is true they should not be allowed anywhere near power, but at the end of the day we the public are ultimately responsible, we voted for them (well not me personally). However, I do feel a pang of sympathy for politicians (or maybe it's just wind) because we fall for their inflated promises of better tomorrows and wonderful change time and time again, and then we are disapointed and resentful when they don't deliver.

However, when politicians try and tell us the truth about how bad things are going to be and the cuts they will have to make we get scared off. They can't win. At the end of the day what is needed in this country to fix things are real deep rooted radical changes but we wont get them because people are tied into the pleasure principal and don't want things that are going to stop them from enjoying themselves.

DC's conservatives wont be any better than this shower of dodo, and while ever we aren't prepared to accept the truth and all we want are happy promises of unrealistic change things can't get any better.

Major Plonquer

I want to know how I can get my kids one of these socialist 'life outcomes' thingies.

Does Apple make one? The iLifeoutcome? I'm sure they'd like that.

mitch

Blair is very rich but his kids have "problems" to shame anyone ....go figure.

Polly Gamma

The initiatives prompted by Sir Keith Joseph’s Cycle of Deprivation speech (29th June 1972) and Research Programme stemming from his career and experiences in the history of underclass stereotypes, and research on approaches to poverty and arguments around the neglect of ‘agency’ in post-war social policy are an eye opener. They show how the issue and research was seized by the left and the spirit of authentic open enquiry closed off. His early work was swamped by ensuing left wing initiatives which were designed to become tools for them to manipulate research and carry out blinkered social engineering which set out to prove their politics more than a genuine open minded approach to really achieving progress and results. No surprise now three decades later the backward result is that we need an URGENT study on the Cycle of Depravation!

cityboozer

It's a useful stick with which to beat her but it is quite clear from the quote that she is saying that it is impossible to measure the two independently due to the degree of correlation presently found.

She doubtless knows absolutely cock-all about statistics but it might actually be the case that she is correct.

Andrew Taylor

Harman is like a Born Again Christian or a non-smoker. Iris Robinson is probably one of her mates.

She seems to carry a deep psychological scar regarding the fact that her mama and papa were loaded and so, is determined that we should all become hermaphrodites and all live in a world where there is one type of school, one type of hospital, and one colour, grey. Any perceived advantage should be punished severely, despite the fact that the kids she wants to punish had no control over the advantage - just like her.

That is except for her and her political hypocrite fellow travellers.

Here we have a (relative) blue blood by birth (not her fault) but she lives very nicely off the state with her ministerial salary, allowances and perks. Her husband does quite nicely too. And she has NEVER, it seems, had a proper job.

Oh, and the law doesn't apply to her either, she seems to think - driving away from the scene of an accident (which occurred whilst she was using her mobile phone) with an, "I'm Harriet Harmen, you know where to find me". This on top of already proving on at least two provable occasions that she cannot read speed signs.

She tub-thumps about fairness. Against selective education, but when it came to her snotty little oiks, one went to St Olave's in Orpington - a Grammar School - and the other went to the London Oratory - another selective school. So they're OK. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she has private medical cover too.

I am from a working class background and left school at 15. I should be natural Labour fodder. But I despise you and your kind, Harman. You wish to draw from everyone any individuality. You wish to drag the top down to the bottom, in pursuit of fairness, rather than encouraging the bottom to catch up with the top. In the process you throw our money at the problem as if that is the panacea for lack of success. You don't understand that it is better to encourage some to try harder with incentives, than it is to pay someone to sit at home watching Sky whilst waiting to be offered something about the NMW. And you also unfairly raise the expectations of people who will become more and more resentful that the promised nirvana brought by going to university for 3 years to do a media degree, or an ology degree, has not immediately landed you with a £100k job. Even though you have loaded yourself up with debt which will take years to clear. And even if you are a woman.

And then to top it all, you say that poor people cannot be decent parents - because they are poor. You are stark staring mad and it quite obvious that you have never been poor, so how would you know!!!

David Burns

How would an upper class public school toff know anything about how real people live?

Dorothy Wilson

David Burns: Because "an upper class public school toff" can value the things that really matter in life just as much as those you describe as "real people".

John F

What utter rubbish,,,,,,I was born and brought up in an Aberdeenshire croft from 1951 onwards,,,we had no running water,no eletricty and my dad earned £12/ week from the Forestry plus the cattle and crops we sold.
We like many millions of working people not just yesteryear but today too are perfectly capable of knowing right from wrong,,,
Money has nothing to do with behaving properly,,,,,after all the Troughing piggies,, otherwise known as MP,s and Peers were paying themselves loads of money,, lying too to get it. So where was there knowledge of right and wrong.

As for Harperson,, well I,ve never punched the hell out of a woman but for her,, along with the other lying Labour haridans,,Jackie Smith, Blears etc,, i would make an execption if they were standing in front of me.

So Hairperson and others,,clean up your own vices before lecturing others.

Naomi Muse

Oh dear! Harriet is showing her total lack of logic, together with her prejudices clearly here.

So, finding a Blairette lying on the ground in Leicester Square in an inebriated state is because his parents were poor, is it?

Stupidity. Arrant stupidity! Why is she trying to fill airwaves and column inches with such poppycock?

Could it be to divert attention away from the failings of the government in all their gory detail?

What is she on?

Paul Hawkins

Fits the New Labour dogma though doesn't it? Throw money at something and it will improve. Utter rubbish.
Harman could help us towards our CO2 emission targets by shutting up.

Si Tailor

Harriet Harman saying to mothers of Britain carry on having babies the state will pay for them. Fathers? well they can carry on working all hours, taxed untill they drop dead.

Pricky Gayes

*Earned* family income, perhaps.

Sally Williams

Imagine a world in which Labour wins the General Election. Not only is that bad enough, but the Labour MPs then decide that they need a new leader and that Harman is the victor. Anyone for mass suicide?

Helen Wright

This is a huge insult to my parents, who raised 4 childen on a council estate and none of us has criminal records and are all happily married for many years. We each own our own homes now and have always worked and paid taxes. Our children, in turn, are raised with the same standards of behaviour.
And my grandparents, who raised 10 children on a chippy's income, with no help from the state and none of whom are divorced, and have all worked their way up to middle class, by hard graft and careful spending. Each of us has known hunger and cold. But we just worked harder to make sure our children had better.
I detest this woman. She does not represent the rest of womankind and she does not speak for me!
I'm sick to death of being treated with contempt by this English culture hating Labour Party. We used to believe in working for what we wanted. Now we're told that those of us who do work, must give the unworking classes whatever they want. No, sir. Not now. Not ever. We deserve better than this and they deserve to be told to get off their arses and work for what they want.

Snowman

This pathetic woman may smell better, but is more dangerous than a tanker full of sarin, broken down and leaking somewhere in the Thames estuary. If nuLabour has a death wish, she is the candidate to go for when Gordon gets retired.

David Ossitt

“I also think it is offensive—imagine how Labour would react if someone said middle class people were better at being parents than working class people”

You are catching on; she offends, with every breath she takes.

Tim Carpenter LPUK

"you can’t separate out good parenting skills from family income.”

There she goes again, psychological projection.

Harman is almost right. What she should have said was

"I can’t separate out good parenting skills from family income.”

Just because she is unable, unwilling or too much in denial to disentangle it has to be just her concern, but like a true collectivist everyone is lumped together.