CoffeeHousers' Wall, 15 February - 21 February

wrinkled weasel

There is the picture being hawked around the papers today. It depicts Times journalist, Dominic Kennedy being ejected, with some force, from a BNP press conference where, apparently, he was deemed to be persona non grata. Matthew d'Ancona, (erstwhile, etc,)writing about the incident declares: "the party represents a clear and present danger"

And the righteous are queuing up to condemn this as "the real face of the BNP" Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't, but it says no more (or everything) about the British National Party than the ejection of Walter Wolfgang from the Labour Party Conference says about New Labour. Not to mention his subsequent arrest under terrorist legislation, whereby the police were used as a blatant political tool.
It seems to me you are merely being offered a choice of which Police State you wish to live in. If there is a difference, it's subtlety is beyond my comprehension. The soft left just about manage to get hysterical about a party that stands no chance of ever running this country, but which dares to say what cannot be any longer said. If you are looking for clear and present danger, Mr d'Ancona, you need look no further than the Labour Party.

Nash

Listening to the Today Show this morning I found it was interesting that the BBC was asking questions about the "structural deficit" while Alistair darling answered questions about the "total" deficit.

Labour is not acknowledging the existence of the structural deficit and has as its narrative that the total deficit was caused by the "worldwide" financial crisis.

I think Cameron & Co need to make this distinction more clearly. To the public a "deficit" is a deficit and they do not understand the difference between the two.

Alexandrovich

This is also on the fag-end of the last Wall:
Even the BBC is doing Neather now and, difficult as I find this to say, it's not that bad. Well worth a listen on iplayer; Analysis Radio 4 at 21:30 Sunday 14th.
The programme is called Foreigner Policy and is trailed as 'David Goodhart investigates the ideological forces behind mass immigration'.

Chingford Man

What about Neathergate?

oldtimer

Will 2010 prove to be the year of the great unravelling?

Last year we witnessed the unravelling of the reputation of MPs as a consequence of the expenses scandal.

This year I offer these potential candidates for the great unravelling:
(1) Mr Brown with associated henchmen and all their works;
(2) The Euro, as a consequence of the PIGs fiscal incontinence;
(3) The great AGW scam, as the three pillars of FUD - temperature warming, CO2 as poison and the hypothesis linking them - are slowly but surely picked apart by true investigative science in place of tendentious science.

I would happily settle for (1) and (3) happening. (2) would spell trouble for us all.

Bill

Could someone please explain to me why the torrid time that the USA is having under Obama seems to get so little airtime!

Thirty-seven million on unemployment benefit is one figure I have read? Twenty-five states unemployment benefit funds are bankrupt! Public sector, including the police and fire service are being cut (two hundred police in Boston)!

The health reforms protests are presented as though they are some kind of rightwing reaction against Obama! Yet given some of the articles I have read from bloggers, could increase the cost of healthcare insurance by twenty per cent to ordinary working Americans!

The people would seem to be demanding, that Wall Street be put on trial, for the giant “Ponzi” scheme which were the “Liar Mortgages” and CDO’s! Not withstanding the looting of the TARP Fund, by over valuation of the so called market value of these assets, and the transfer of liabilities from private to public sector! The bailout saved the greedy and the incompetent from the proper rewards for the greed and avarice both here and the U.S.!

But it is presented in a typically British sneering derisory manner as a “Tea Party” movement (and yes, I’m English).

If only we had the guts to start a movement that would see our men of straw get their just deserts! And the sight, of Ms. Yvette Cooper swallowing those immortal words “The right thing to do”!

Edward Sutherland

Yes, what about Neather? The Spectator has seemed to be afraid to cover this scandal adequately with the result that others, such as Migration Watch, will end up with all the plaudits when the balloon goes up in the election campaign. Getting one of your cadet writers to try and kill off the story was not one of the editor's finest hours.

Rachael

Here comes the cavalry:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100026007/dick-cheney-%E2%80%93-obama%E2%80%99s-worst-nightmare/

Wilhelm

Bias in the Media Part 764

Saw Nick Griffin interviewed by a little BBC twit who was trying desperately to be Walter Cronkite / Perry Mason, the tough guy, big shot reporter.

He squeeeled '' You mishandled a journalist and threw him out, is that a sign for things to come .""

He's a hack from the gutter press, its not Little Bo Peep.
In the social scheme of things hacks are pond life.

Nick Griffin said '' The journalist was politely asked to leave , he didnt so he was escorted from the building.''

BBC twerp huffs and pufffs and shrieeks in fake indignation.

Ho Hum !

Ian Walker

Guido's done a nice piece on Lord Paul today. I expect we can see the usual craven non-exposure by the mainstream media of course. Certainly the Beeb won't go near it......

Wilhelm

The BBC reporter was called Ross Hawkins, an inadequeate if there was one.

Dopey Trevor Philips thinks that forcing the BNP to take in ethnics, ' waaycism ' will suddenly vanish from this earth. Talk about erroneous wonky thinking. Yeah , there will be millions of ethnic third worlders queueing round the block wanting to join the bnp.

I wonder when Trev is going to force the muslim council to let in Christians ?

AndyinBrum

I think Obama's been given a realatively easy ride because people recognise the hospital pass he was given by Bush. The same type of situation that the Tories will face when (if) they win.

This type of economic issues do not take 12 months to sort, they take 4 years at least

David Ossitt

Bill

“Could someone please explain to me why the torrid time that the USA is having under Obama seems to get so little airtime!”

The reason is very simple; he is a black man, (though a very pale one) those who welcomed his election have to be seen to be giving him their full support, those who did not support him are enjoying his discomfort.

Bill (you wouldn’t happen to be Hillary’s Bill, would you?)

Haldane

Fraser, there's safety in numbers so why not follow the lead of the Telegraph and the Daily Mail (not to mention coverage in the Sun and BBC) and now write an editorial on Neathergate? I know Melanie has covered it twice, and I for one am pleased to see her writing on matters other than Jewish or Israeli.Nevertheless, an editorial from your good self covering, for example, the very legality of the actions described by Neather would, be of great interest to your readers.
It's neather too late you know.

Rachael

I'm Murdoch's staff have never escorted people off the premises.

We all remember how placid those strikes in Wapping were.

Bill

David

If I were married to the fragrant Hilary, I would take up cigar smoking too!

Verity

Haldane, I have also used the phrase "Neather too late" - addressing Fraser. I have also said, "Is it a case of never say Neather?" and accused Fraser of living in Never Neatherland.

None of which digs got a response.

Holly ......

REMEMBER folks...
Pancake day tomorrow.
Think Labour.....think lemons.

John Richardson

Two things.

1) 'Wilhelm'

Obviously,as soon as I visited this thread I found immediately I HAD to read whatever you might have posted....Dogh!

2)Why haven't regulars, who want a response to the immigration revelations, signed their contributions with something so indicating ?
Has it been suggested ?
Is it a rubbish idea ?

2 & 1/2)
Has any one thought about the International Agreements and Understandings necessary to effect such a large scale program ?
Might some of these have been illegal ?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Surely in a real democracy a political party should be free, as part of its agenda, to state who can or can not be a member. The BNP is a case in point. I can hardly see all those who have up until now been persona non grata suddenly joining this party. By the same token, can anybody imagine white policemen and women laying for hours on sunbeds, all for the right of joining the Black Cops Club?

Verity

AWK - I don't agree that those who were excluded from the BNP before won't want to join now.

I can imagine a lot of settled second and third generation W Indians joining out of anger at how their children have been abandoned in deference to the vile cult of "political correctness". These are the people who complained and wrote to newspapers when the Met patronisingly decreed a halt to stopping and searching young black males in London. They are watching the lives they invested in this country being destroyed by deference to a desert nut job diety who has nothing in common with Western values. Not all of them, of course, but many working class W Indian decendants feel abandoned and I actually think the BNP will get a lot of W Indian descendants joining. I think the BNP will find that they've made a fortuitous move.

I think they will probably also get some settled Pakistanis who are tarred with the same brush as the MCB who want an end to political correctness and want some straight talk about immigration.

I think you are very wrong, AWK. We are not the only ones whose lives have been destabilised by venomous Marxist One Worlders.

David Ossitt

Will someone; other than John Richardson, please explain to me, just what he is on about, in his post at 5:28pm?

Frank P

Seems that just about everyone is through the Neathergate now; except Fraser Nelson of course, who stands like a stubborn donkey, head down, snorting defiantly and refusing to cross the threshold.

Peter Whittle in Standpoint Magazine weighs in with two articles, the first on 11th February and the second on 14th February, the second citing Janet Daley’s piece in the Sunday Telegraph yesterday:

http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/2682

http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/2694

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/janetdaley/7231568/Immigration-a-plan-to-alter-the-nations-soul.html

All contain detail of just how NuLab and the BBC have been conspiring to undermine British culture and nationality for internationalist, multi-culti objectives. This has apparently occurred under the radar of Fraser Nelson and his friends in the New Conservative Party (aka The Blair Project II).

It seems a shame that we have to turn to other magazines and newspapers to develop the themes which many CH-ers have been on about for almost a decade on this and other blogs and which Melanie has raised twice here against the editorial tide of this magazine (and under some ridicule from her side-bar colleagues).

Perhaps we should forward a petition to the Barclay Bros, via Andrew Neil, to voice our concerns about our editor’s obduracy in the face of punter pressure. Broken promises from the Scottish born Prime Minister of the UK are to be expected: many previous M’Lord; but broken promises from the Scots conductor of this forum are quite another matter. After all we don’t demand that he agrees with us, merely that he explains why he doesn’t. Not an unreasonable request, surely Fraser?

Noa Zrk

the story that slipped under the headlines last week was the cost of the new Brown quango to police Parliamentary expenses. At £6 million per year this is eye wateringly expensive and is obviously meant to tell us all, yet again, how distant MPsand lords are from the real world.
Great Heavens! We might as well have given them all a £5000 a year unaccountable allowance. It would be cheaper!
£6m buys 120 staff, including the £100k per annum quango leader. Thats less than 6 MPs and 6 Lords per head. They are obviously going to be swamped with claims.
By the way, does anyone know why this wasn't competitively tendered, as it should be? Mrs Zrk and I would have got out the abacus for half the price!

Frank P

"I think you are very wrong, AWK. We are not the only ones whose lives have been destabilised by venomous Marxist One Worlders."

Or venomous Marxist crocodile-lachrymose One-Eyed One-Worlders, even..

Frank P

AWK

"Black Cops Club"

Don't you mean "Black Cops Conspiracy"?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Verity: You may be right. I know several veteran W. Indian immigrants who have expressed opinions just like you mentioned.
Frank P: Tonight the dreary "global warming" has got to me, and I cannot respond in like manner. What with the weather, Bruin the one-eyed snake and Caring Dave getting his maths wrong I'm about ready for a cup of Ovaltine.

MikeF

Verity - I really don't think that the cessation or at least diminution of the exercise of stop and search powers by the police where young West Indian males are concerned is a cause of resentment in that 'community'. It was the over-use - frankly abuse - of such powers back in the 70s and 80s that was a cause of quite justified resentment amongst a lot of people of that ilk. Surely you remember the 'Sus' law - the 'suspected persons' clause in the 1824 Vagrancy Act of all things that was used to harass young black men standing at bus stops on Oxford Street. Believe me I am as antipathetic to the deceits of multiculturalist ideology as you are, but there are some things from the past that we are better off without.

By the way you also mean 'fortunate' i.e. with beneficial effects, not 'fortuitous' which simply means by coincidence. This misuse of the language has crept in via the world of sports commentators on the TV who constantly make this error: "His shot took a fortuitous deflection that wrong-footed the goalkeeper." You don't watch Match of the Day with a can of lager in your hand do you?

Now change - I was meaning to write in any case just to record a particularly galling example of left-liberal/socialist arrogance that I saw on the BBC the other day. I happened to find myself watching The Culture Show on BBC2 last Friday, where there was a discussion of a documentary a day or two earlier about some youth who supported the BNP.

It goes without saying that the whole tone of the discussion was one of patronising dismissal, with the partial exception of a moment of spleneticism by that tedious pseudo-prole Billy Bragg who was captioned rather portentiously as something like 'constitutional reformer' rather than merely as a 'pop singer'.

Bragg ranted on that what the white working class really wanted was old-fashioned Labour Party socialism with jobs and houses etc. Now, of course, to an extent he is right. But what he and his kind cannot admit is that they also want something else - a recognition and respect for their identity, culture and history.

But for Bragg this is anethema. Indeed he actually went on about how they should not want to have pubs named after Lord Nelson because of the connotations of 'triumphalism'. As an example of the sheer visceral hatred people like that have for the 'white working class' - which of course is a form of displaced self-hatred - and of why callow white youths support the BNP it was matchless. It is precisely the trashing of that identity by the establishment that is a primary cause of the rise of the BNP. But people like Bragg are so wrapped up in their own estimation of themselves that they just do not understand or they do understand but cannot admit.

Perhaps one of the other panelists pointed this out before the show ended, though I doubt it. For myself when I heard that the show was to end with a song from Mr Bragg I switched over. That really would have been too much.

Beer Moth

League table out last week, indicating those UK cities which have the most unoccupied city-centre retail space. Worst performer was Wolverhampton.

The trick here, for Wolverhampton and any other stricken city, is to copy the strategy of Bradford by demolishing a large proportion of the city centre. A vanished building has no space.

Nicholas

MikeF back to the briefing room for you, you miserable pedant - or invest in a better dictionary:-

for•tu•i•tous
adj.
1. Happening by accident or chance.
2. Usage
a. Happening by a fortunate accident or chance.
b. Lucky or fortunate.
[Latin fortutus; see bher-1 in Indo-European roots.]
for•tui•tous•ly adv.
for•tui•tous•ness n.
Usage: In its best-established sense, fortuitous means "happening by accident or chance." Thus, a fortuitous meeting may have either fortunate or unfortunate consequences. For decades, however, the word has often been used in reference to happy accidents, as in The company's profits were enhanced as the result of a fortuitous drop in the cost of paper. This use may have arisen because fortuitous resembles both fortunate and felicitous. Whatever its origin, the use is well established in the writing of reputable authors. • The additional use of fortuitous to mean "lucky or fortunate" is more controversial, as in He came to the Giants in June as the result of a fortuitous trade that sent two players back to the Reds. This use dates back at least to the 1920s, when H.W. Fowler labeled it a malapropism, but it is still widely regarded as incorrect.

I bet you also think the Immelman Turn is a roll off the top of a loop too.

Beer Moth

Currently airing on commercial radio: "The Graduate Talent Pool"

"Starting your degree was the start of a journey, with twists and turns along the way...and then you graduated and right now you might be thinking what's next?"

Then again, you might be thinking "Hang on a minute? Are you seriously suggesting that I turn up with my three years of study; with my degree; with my 20 grand plus debt that needs paying off; with my rent and living costs; and you want me to work for no pay? You want my generation to work for nothing?"

Our young people are being royally shafted and although they might be putting up with it now, they will one day show their anger and it won't be pretty.

Verity

Mike F: “I really don't think that the cessation or at least diminution of the exercise of stop and search powers by the police where young West Indian males are concerned is a cause of resentment in that 'community'.” Well, I remember reading in the papers at the time that a lot of W Indian immigrants wrote to their W Indian newspapers that they were worried about this as most of the crime in the area was committed against them, respectable W Indian immigrants. They were appalled and worried at the decision. I recall one articulate editor writing a very good leader on this. Now that the BNP has quite rightly widened its scope, I think we will see W Indian Brits joining.

”By the way you also mean 'fortunate' i.e. with beneficial effects, not 'fortuitous' which simply means by coincidence”. Thanks, Nicholas, for a heroic defence.

Match of The Day, whatever that is, although I think football, no. Cricket yes. Better gear (whites) and more intellectual and daring play.

Rhoda Klapp

Nicholas, do you contend that it is merely some sort of wingover?

MikeF

Nicholas - Thanks for that, but it is still a misusage that conflates what should be two distinct meanings rather in the way that 'imply' and 'infer' are now increasingly used interchangeably when they properly mean quite different things.

Nicholas

Rhoda - the original Immelman Turn, for which I have incontrovertable proof in the form of the complete course of flying instruction written by Flight-Commander W G McMinnies RN as "Practical Flying" (published in 1918) is as follows:-

"It is performed by getting up a little speed, by putting the control lever forward and then pulling it back, as in a zoom. When the machine is almost standing on its tail, but before it has lost flying speed and controllability apply rudder and bank in the same direction. The machine will answer to the controls, cartwheel in the air and come out facing in the opposite direction. A slight modification of this manoeuvre results in the famous Immelman Turn. The engine can be cut out when the machine turns about, and will allow it to dive, but if the stick is held fully back the machine will come out of the dive quite easily."

And further this is exactly how my father (RAF 1927) described it to me as a boy.

Immelman developed this manouevre whilst flying a Fokker monoplane to be able to make repeated attacks on slower enemy two seater aircraft without losing height in the turn.

The Americans bastardised this venerable stunt to make people believe it was a roll off the top of a loop, an evasive manouevre whereas in fact it was conceived as an attacking manouevre. They still do and it irritates me that even the British aviation press follows the American distortion of the term rather than the pure original perfected by Immelman.

The stunt was also used by Japanese Zero pilots in a very highly modified form as "hineri-komi" ("turning in"), but that, as they say, is another story.

Rhoda Klapp

Yes, it's highly unlikely that the Eindekker with its large span and chord and warping rather than ailerons had the control power to roll off the top.

Other coffee housers. If you don't have a clue what we're talking about, you damn well should. This has more relevance than the average coffee house blog story. (And WW1 air combat tactics have no relevance at all.)

Mac Rhodie

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't I be right in thinking you are due for a General Election in less than three months, and maybe I read it wrong, but isn't the electorate crying out for a leader with fire in his/her belly to lead the tribes out of the toxic willderness that the UK has become.
The public services are in a disgusting state of socialist apathy, and the best the Tories can come up with is Osborne's Co-Operatives which looks to me like pissing in the soup. Get a grip Cameron or you will end up with a hung parliament. Be bold, tell the Brits the worst and they will give of their best. You will be surprised at the sacrifices they will be prepared to make if they have faith in you and your bold leadership.

MikeF

Rhoda - Are you suggesting that the editor of the Spectator should make an Imelman Turn with regards to the Neather revelations i.e. a sudden manoeuvre that will convert his apparent evasion into attack?

Rhoda Klapp

This from Richard North's umbrella blog:

"There is not a single university in the UK that is not beholden to the EU - the money amounts to a massive bribe to the "intelligensia" to keep them on side. It also means that the policy focus is kept at a European level ... you will not that a not inconsiderable amount of research is devoted to policy ends, which means that national governments are no longer formulating policy (of which universities were always part). It has been hijacked by the EU. Also, the number of co-operative schemes means that the universities are forced to work on a European level, an attempt at Europeanising the entire university system.

As importantly, the EU has taken over the apparatus of policy-making in this country. Very few people understand how policy is made ... they think you just pluck a few ideas out of a bag and paste them in your manifesto. The process, however, is complex, time consuming and expensive - and universities are and always have been an integral part of the process. Now that resource has been hijacked (ditto Whitehall), there is very little policy resource tp which politicians can turn, which focuses on issues strictly from a national perspective. This may in part be the reason for the policy vacuum in the Cameron camp ... nobody is producing UK policy ideas any more ... what's the point? What, for instance, is the point of producing a unilateral policy for the UK on climate change? This is done at an EU and UN level - where the money flows. If you thought about doing it, you would not get any funding."

North know whereof he speaks. How does this narrative align with the westminster bubble brown/cameron BS we see posted here every bloody day with no end in sight? Is it nearer to reality? Will Fraser be blogging it?

Stuart Seacole Smith

Listened to the good ole Beeb's coverage this morning of the capture of Taliban ogre Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar. The correspondent managed to blurt out that:
- this is a sign of Pakistan "bowing to american wishes" - somehow this was imbued with a sense that this is a bad thing
- that Mullah Baradar (Taliban 2nd in command and operations leader) was thought to be "open to negotiations", and that his capture might therefore make the achievement of some sort of solution harder.

Only in BBC la-la land is the capture of one of the highest ranking Taliban killers "a bad thing".

There was also some bit of garbled nonsense from Jeremy "bunny in the headlights" Bowen.

The BBC microphone toting surrender monkeys, as always doing their bit for West-haters everywhere.

Rhoda Klapp

MikeF, he may be just sitting on the perch waiting for the other Fokkers to do the attacking.

Rhoda Klapp

Some double entendres are accidental (fortuitous), some are cleverly contrived. The one I just used is pretty much compulsory to keep the tradition going.

EC

Beer Moth, February 15th, 2010 11:31pm

I thought that the residents of Bradford had their own way of dealing with unwanted retail premises - unoccupied or not. I remember THAT photo of the burnt out New Mini with the caption "Goes like a Bomb!"

I seem to remember that Molotov cocktails featured prominently in the Bradford riots. Do they still have any stockpiles of WMD there?
[ i.e. Weapons of Milk Distribution - the old 1 pint milk bottle]

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Lady Scotland said the sentences, handed by a judge at Sheffield Crown Court last month, were not "unduly lenient".
This was the horrific case involving the sadistic torture by two young boys on other children.
I suppose the honourable lady is perhaps wary of sentences being too harsh. I wonder why?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

The new AfPak strategy in action - decapitation, reintegration and reconciliation (DRR)
How dare the US, Britain or any other nation lay hands on these freedom fighters? Human Rights activists will be gnashing their teeth in righteous rage, and if Jennie Tonge has any fangs left, she will chew her pock-ridden cheek in fury. Any decapitation that can legally be done,is the Taliban decapitating the infidel!

Saw Stuart Seacole Smith's posting just now, so although I have submitted the above to another Forum, I feel it may be of interest.

EC

Rhoda Klapp, February 16th, 2010 1:34pm

On the subject of Neathergate it would appear that our Admirable Nelson isn't so much a dashing air ace willing to take on those Fokkers in their Messerschmitts but rather the captain of the Yellow Submarine.

Nicholas

Come on now, EC, let's get our Air War analogies right. Fokkers against Messerschmitts. Yes, but only in WWII (Dutch Air Force vs Luftwaffe - briefly) - not in WWI!

Reminds me of that old joke about the Irish BoB pilot visiting the school to tell the kids about his exploits (pre-New Labour Stasi Vetting, Barring & Slandering Agency of course).

Alarmed the young lady teacher intervenes: "Children the Fokkers the Wing Commander is talking about being surrounded by were a type of German aircraft."

Wingco, beatific after long liquid lunch: "Oh no, these fokkers were definitely Messerschmitts."

Ronnie

I struggle to see what you all expect Fraser to say that other than what you cats have already said. You are seeking some kind of validation. You know what Neathergate is and what it means to you, you've taken ownership of it.

Rhoda Klapp

Nicholas, just for interest, my Grandfather was a ground witness to the air combat resulting in thr RFC's first casualty to enemy action, 22 August 1914, in which one Sgt Major Jillings was shot in the backside.

My dad did a couple of trips as observer/wireless op in a Bristol F2B over the northwest frontier in the afghan war of 1930.

Now back to our regular programming.

JimCorbett

That's a great story about the Fokkers but it's usually ascribed to Douglas Bader at Roedean...

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

EC and other posters:
Isn't it possible that poor Fraser has been tackled by a Nelson Hold? (Ugh, it's really corny, sorry)

EC

Nicholas, It's a great joke. The variant that I heard at a tender age concerned a Polish, or maybe Czech, RAF ace addressing a school speech day.

Wilhelm

Ronnie

Let me explain it to you simply, step by step.

Neathergate is the scandal of the century, its epoch making.
Liebour wanted 5 million immigrants into the country to
gerrymander the voting system in favour of liebour and the social cohesion of the country according to liebour can go to
hell. Immigrants tend to vote liebour, they sure aint voting tory UKIP or BNP.

And there is not a cheep out of the press and media on the subject, when it should be on every front page of every newspaper in the land

Dont you think thats a little bit odd, Ronnie ?

EC

Frank P is quite right to point out that Standpoint Magazine is a publication with some impressive content. It also has a decent website. The Spectator should not be complacent about its competition.

Nicholas

Rhoda - snap! My father was also on the NW Frontier of India in the mid 1930's on Wapitis (5 Sqn) at Miranshah, Chaklala and other places now in the news. He came back via Mespot just before the war. Usually it was 3 years Mespot and 2 years India or the other way around - 3 years India and 2 years Mespot.

You may have heard then the story of the Phantom Tonga of Risalpur?

Wilhelm

I960s throwback Ronnie meeoows '' you cats .''

Its 2010 not Carnaby street 1967, son

Beer Moth

Ronnie

What lovely big brown eyes you have. Go on, flutter those eyelids a bit more why don't you.

radgie gadgie

RE: Stuart Seacole Smith
February 16th, 2010 12:32pm and the Beeb in mourning over a taliban being captured (or going over to the other side in return for a big wedge). A double whammy on C4 Mr Snow also in mourning tonight for the same reason and the Hamas bloke taken out in Dubai. If you listen carefully you can hear the stamping of tiny feet with cries of "its not fair!"

Sam Armstrong

Britain's empty city centres.

There have been some comments on here about what to do with vacant city centre retail space.

Wasn't some politician recently going on about letting northern cities die, as opposed to pumping in more cash into black holes, to try to revive them? Move the people out and into the South East, demolish the northern suburbs of England and let them grow over? Or it could have been Brian Sewell who said this.

I actually think this would be a great idea. Obviously historic city centres like Liverpool would be saved, but the urban area and suburbs would be dramatically scaled back, and the population could be moved into a giant 'metroplex' in the South East, based on the American metroplexes, such as Dallas-Forth Worth or Philadelphia-New York, that would stretch from Cambridge to Brighton, and Reading to Southend. This would end the north-south divide because London could no longer be accused of swallowing up all the talent, and the greenfield sites used up by London's giant expansion would be compensated for by new larger areas of natural space in the formerly urban north.

Just a thought.

Beer Moth

...and still Bradford comes a disrespectable second. Even after nuking half the city centre.

Why not really go for it and raize the lot of it, turn it into a people's park. No unoccupied space at all. Think of all those brown envelopes. Just like the glory days of Kirkgate.

Sam Armstrong

On West Indian families and their attitudes to stop and search.

West Indian people, like any other group, can be divided into right and left, if you will forgive me for using those expressions.

Some will earnestly believe that the Police must stay out of their lives, since the Police fail to understand them, whilst others feel very abandoned by the progressives who are in charge of the Police.

I felt heartily sorry for the elderly West Indian lady who had the bravery to stand up on Question Time about two or so years ago, and tell the panel in no uncertain terms, to stop abandoning black people to crime. She lamented that the Police no longer regard (I think it was Peckham) her area as worth saving, and are rarely to be seen. "Stop abandoning us" she pleaded.

Verity

Sam Armstrong - heartbreaking. It is that lady and her ilk who, feeling abandoned by both parties, will be open to be persuaded to vote BNP now that they have seen sense. I am surprised, in fact, that the BNP did not see a few years ago that the second and third generation W Indian immigrants had no party to flee to once Labour had abandoned them for the larger number of islamics.

I hope Griffith and his people make them feel welcome, because they have truly been discarded, except as tokens to be exchanged. And their interests are the same as their white members. They're strong Christians and I am sure they are discomfitted by the ceding of so much of British culture to to aggressive islam. One tiny example, one tiny cut ... feeding British children, indigenous or W Indian immigrant, halal meat in school, without the parents' permission is so bloody arrogant and impertinent. The same as diluting or abandoning Christian holidays. They have all the same grievances as the white British working class and I hope they can make common cause.

Verity

PS - I realise that my last post sounded patronising, and I apologise. I didn't intend it so.

I think that there will also be (white) former Conservatives who, feeling abandoned by Dave and his bizarre deconstruction of the conservative message, may also be motivated to give the BNP a go now that they are admitting all races.

Dave has opened the sluice gates. His clique cannot connect with ordinary British people. No windmills on roofs. No airlifting of specially chosen candidates. UKIP and the BNP will benefit.

I hope.

It's about time we replaced the worn-out parties of yore who don't want voters except those they can buy.

The new age advances. If a Conservative leader emerged who was set on following Conservative ways, that would be one thing.

But Dave and his tawdry gang of chancers are another.

Ronnie

Thanks Wilhelm, I would certainly have no understanding of current events without your simplistic explanations.

You seem to miss my point.

MikeF

Given that this site is currently majoring on West Indian culture and the RAF, here is a link to an obituary in The Daily Telegraph that combines both themes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/tv-radio-obituaries/7245357/Cy-Grant.html

The underlying point, of course, is that in contemporary multiculturalist demonology in which everything about Britain before, say, the mid-1960s is deemed atrocious a career like this would be regarded as impossible. But it happened.

Haldane

Ronnie,what has irritated many of the contributors to this blog is the suspicion that either Fraser has been 'got at' and/or has lost his balls and is running away from commenting on such a contoversal topic despite a promise so to do. We may have looked askance had he said that in his judgement he couldn't stand the story up or that he didn't deem it of interest, but it his silence after his original committment that is so damning -and we don't like o be treated in this fashion.He may prove me wrong - you can never say Neather (or is it the other way round?).

Ghengis

Nicholas and Rhoda Inconsequential, but this comment column being a bit flat I'm reduced to browsing back and have calculated we three to be of the more "mature" posters. Having accomplished this I am minded to hint that even at our advanced age it surely is not necessary to reverse the length of the tours, most of us can also manage that.

Nicholas

MikeF thanks for posting that link. Very interesting.

To continue that theme and further reinforce how pernicious the post-1960s demonisation of pre-Marxist Britain has been, the exceptional 1953 film about Bomber Command 'Appointment in London' included a scene featuring, briefly, a black Wing Commander bomber pilot. More here:-

http://www.caribbeanaircrew-ww2.com/

Nicholas

Ghengis, I have absolutely no idea what you mean. Reverse the length of tours? Reversed lengths are just as long aren't they? What are you on about?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

West Indians and RAF. An excellent book by Andrea Levy (of W. Indian descent) was recently made into a film on television. "Small Island" is well worth reading, as are all her books. Her latest, "The Long Song" has just come out.

EC

MikeF,

Great link. Cy Grant's obituary shows that things weren't exactly idyllic in the 1950's either. Qualified as a barrister in 1950 but 'found work hard to come by owing to his colour. ' Apparently justice wasn't colour blind.

Frank P

Ray Gosling has been nicked.

Debauchery and murder have always been bedfellows throughout the ages. Now prepare to pick up the tab for the show trial and the maudlin sentimentality that will gush from this deranged circus of self-flagellation. Pour encourager les autres?
Hmm. A double edged sword of 'justice' I fear.

Ronnie

Haldane.

Thank you. I'm perfectly aware of the problem with Fraser but my question is, what is more important - the issue itself or Fraser's unwillingness to comment on it?

I'm going with the issue first and the MSM's finest being obviously unwilling to be first to properly open a huge and very damaging can of worms second.

Leave Fraser alone, I say, and get on with discussing the issue. Don't be so easily distracted.

Verity

According to The Telegraph, Obama is to meet the Dalai Lama. How remiss that none of us predicted this.

http://tinyurl.com/ydv4vot

MikeF

EC - Quite agree, but nothing is ever perfect anywhere. The point is to expose the multiculturalist lie that Britain - specifically white British people - is somehow intrinsically racist and that only the noble intervention and vigilance of the socialists and liberals stops this country from being something like the old US Deep South. Teh factg is that compared with most other places Britain is an intrinsically tolerant country and in modern times for the most part always has been.

By the way for those who are interested there are some highly illuminating comments in the journalism of George Orwell during the war years about 'indigenous' British attitudes to black people. That was the time when black people first appeared in this country in large numbers - thanks mainly to their inclusion in the US armed forces in the build-up to D-Day.

Orwell noted that while there was antipathy to white American servicemen (the 'overpaid, over-sexed, over here' syndrome) their black counterparts were generally perceived as much more polite and were well regarded by British people. But he also noted that white US servicemen were trying to replicate in British civilian life the segregation that was officially practised in the US Army e.g. by bribing restaurant owners to turn away would-be black customers. He actually warned that if such instances were ignored they might have deleterious repercussions for race relations after the war. He was probably right on that one.

Ghengis

Nicholas, "Tours" as used by our armed forces to describe a specific length of time to be spent at a posting or upon active service. I was only hinting that we are able to reverse 3 - 2 to arrive at the conclusion 2 - 3. How many hours have you logged.

Frank P

Verity

The Obama/Dalai Lama meeting:

Yes: only after great pressure though, from a multi-headed blast from the Fox News team, when he dragged his feet following Chinese threats.

I'll bet Obama is ruing the day he decided (or perhaps his Czars decided)to take on Fox News as an adversary. He's now being shafted every day in every possible way by Fox.

Charles Krauthammer is awesome in his application. Very droll, too.

Glenn Beck still worries me. He has sure pushed the stuff ad nauseum that we marshalled during the early stages of the Obama Presidential Campaign on these blogs and almost single-handedly started a counter revolution which is now being covered even by his enemies in the MSM, but the somewhat cack-handed presentation style he employs has me gripping the arms of my rocking chair at times. I wish he would avail himself of an Anacapa Intelligence Analysis Course. His graphics and delivery are a bit primitive; but he's getting better and his repeat video clips of Obama and his henchmen are wonderful, at times, as punctuations for his assertions. I hope he has a good security team. Lesser mosquito's biting the arses of previous PsOTUS have been zapped in the past, usually in carefully constructed 'accidents'.

Wilhelm

Ronnie says

''Thanks Wilhelm, I would have no understanding of world events without your explanations.''

No trouble at all Ronnie, it was my pleasure, always happy to help.

Wilhelm

The reason why Fraser Nelson has not written his much promised comment about immigration is because, as we all know the subject of immigration is radioactive, its kryptonite.

Anyone who talks about immigration in the slightest is denouced by the liberal establishment, media, BBC, as a foaming at the mouth, rabid, ranting waycist and bnp sympathiser.

Its guilt by association, Fraser doesnt want the hassle and doesnt have the courage to write about it unlike Melanie Philips . Look what happened to Rod Liddle piss take comment about Somalians and goat curry. Tub of lard Diane Abbott wanted him fired. The left dont have a sense of humour, too buy saving the world.

Fraser prefers dressing up in a penguin suit and going to society balls, as he did on Andrew Neils show and going on SKY and every other media outlet to review the newspapers with his chum Kevin McQuire like a couple of old media tarts.

EC

MikeF, Yes, the BIG LIE is that ONLY the white British are racists, that we ALL are, and that NOBODY ELSE IS.

Try saying that there are "racists" and some form of prejudice to be found with in every nation, race and ethnic group on earth and somebody will call you a racist!

Verity

From Iain Dale's blog:

Take-offs of the Tories' "I've never voted Tory before" ads. The first one's rather good.

You are invited by MyLabourPoster, devised by Conservative Home blog, to submit your own ideas (preferably with artwork).

oldtimer

OT post.

If you object to Mr Brown calling people who disagree with him "deniers" and "flat earthers", you can vote on the No 10 petition here:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Deniers/

EC

Frank P @ 1:15pm

I steadfastly refuse to be maudlin or sentimental! We must console ourselves with the thought that it probably would not have been the first time that the victim may have been forced to swallow a pillow.

Historically, didn't the Borgias manage to keep the debauchery within the family and the murders without?

Frank P

EC

"that it probably would not have been the first time that the victim may have been forced to swallow a pillow."

Wilde to Whistler on that one, EC. Brilliant - but cruel and admirably lacking in maudlin sentimentality!

As for the Borgias, you may be right, but I bet if you dug deeply you'd find an incestuous crime passionnel or two somewhere on the books of the Borgias. In fact, let's see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucrezia_Borgia

Verity

Mike F - What's Match of The Day?

Re stop and search, I recall that when the Met or whatever stopped it, the working black people were very perturbed because they were the major victims of young black hoodlums in their areas. There is apparently a black newspaper in the area, and the editor ran a strong signed editorial criticising the Met and this editorial got a lot of circulation in the other media.

Frank P

EC

As I suspected - 'crimine de passione' all over the shop! Even a mention of the love that dare not breathe its name, but has to hold its nose; but only of the switch-hitting modus.

MikeF

Verity - the BBC's long-running football highlights programme on a Saturday night. It has been running for decades apart from the odd interruption when the franchise has gone to ITV.

As for stop and search I daresay what you say is true, but I stand by what I say that that that power was seriously misused back in the 70s and 80s in a way that was genuinely harmful to good race relations.

Maria

I heard at the end of Six o'clock news (ca 26 minutes) today on the bbc that the flag over the Reichstag was hoisted to celebrate the"victory of the Soviet Union over nazi Germany". Does anyone else consider this a distortion of the facts?

Alexandrovich

Did he or didn't he? No, of course not. He's just an attention seeking old queen who's hard up for a few quid. And the Beeb took it, hook line and sinker.

Emotionally unstable? Not much...

Verity

Mike F - and I stand by what I say. Regardless of what the white liberal mahatamas thought, working black people in those neighbourhoods wanted stop and search for ruffians and malfeasants, because they were the ones victimised by them.

MikeF

Maria - 'Capture of Berlin by Soviet forces' would have been accurate. The BBC version, as you imply, seems to indicate that the Soviets did it all themselves, which of course they didn't.

A related issue is the way that the contemporary left with all their mania for 'anti-fascist' activity never make any mention in their publicity of the fact that this country stood alone against the Nazis when every other country in Europe was either conquered, neutral or allied with them (the Soviets in the latter category). Just imagine if in 1939 Britain with a Conservative Government had been an ally of the Nazis while the Soviets had gone to war to defend Poland. We would never hear the end of it from the left. But events did not happen that way and so they ignore the fact.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

In today's "Times" a debate is going on stating that judges do not explain things clearly enough for the juries. Some believe that the juries have become "dumbed down." It would be interesting to see what fellow "Spectator" bloggers think. I personally believe that Straw would love to remove juries, so that we could be left with NuLabour appointed judges. I also believe that it isn't so much a question of juries being "dumbed down", although as representatives of the general public, this is possible. I think the problem is the judges. Most of them are either insane or criminals, or as I've said before, criminally insane.Just look at the sentences they give. Tempered with mercy for the most sadistic criminals, and with a harshness equal to Judge Jeffries of old, if it is some poor pensioner who wont pay a TV licence or council taxes.

Beer Moth

Alexandrovich.

Yep. Poor lad needs a nice rest somewhere away from narrow-minded Blighty, after the plods go through their obligatories of course.

I'm round at William Hill's first thing, see if they are taking bets on Thailand.

Beer Moth

And another thing: what on earth does it say about the nation, when one can't use a public urinal without being faced with the hideous discarded bogies of previous users?

What is their message to the world?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Judge Jeffreys - sorry spelling mistake.

Nicholas

Anne don't get me started on Straw. Everything that weasel comes out with is a cunningly connived at and crafted deceit. With that slippery and very nasty piece of work what you see is definitely never what you get. If he gets the boot in the General Election and is removed from holding any power over us it will be a happy day for Britain, justice and liberty.

New Labour's favourite tactic and the advance guard of all their change is to raise a concern about something long established - just like juries. Then comes "consultation" with vested interests, government funded lobby groups and fake charities. Then comes some moral blackmail and dictatorial intentions from the particular national socialist gauleiter fronting the imposition (worst offenders Harmon, Bradshaw, Burnham and the odious Straw) with much use of that disingenuous phrase "what the public want". Then suddenly it's law and another crime is invented.

Whenever I see the arrogant posturing my mind goes back to seeing Goebbels, and Goering and all the other strutting misfits in that gang, so cocksure of themselves. Anything that represents power beyond their control, like juries, is fair game to them.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Nicholas: Nicholas, forgive me if writing of that Long Straw so late at night will cause you to have nightmares. Truly I'm sorry, because he is my bete noire too, coupled in an unholy alliance with the hideous Harmon.

Maria

MikeF.
"Capture of Berlin by Soviet forces' would have been accurate. The BBC version, as you imply, seems to indicate that the Soviets did it all themselves, which of course they didn't."

I am willing to put it down to ignorance/sloppy news writing but still it is perturbing. The Soviets took Berlin because Eisenhauer ordered Western troops (can't remember which) to stand still and allow the Soviets to take the city.
We seem to be subject to propaganda that either the Americans or the Soviets won WW2 singlehanded when for 2 years the Americans were neutralish and the Soviets were, as you point out, allied with nazi Germany and supplying them with raw materials.
I still still it hard to believe bbc newswriters are that ignorant.

Verity

Nicholas - a totally brilliant post.

I couldn't add a word, except to remind the punters that Straw's father was a coward whose own Jewish father had been accorded refuge in our country. Straw's father, the refugee's son, refused to fight for Britain in WWII, the coward. He also refused to be a Conscientious Objector, by which the tolerant, even in dastardly times, British accorded a non-combative role to people who felt killing was wrong.

But Straw's dad didn't want to do the chores generously assigned to consciencious objectors - like pushing mops around hospital floors, changing bedsheets, cleaning lavatories and many non-combative chores that would assuage their consciences, but still serve our country.

Jack Straw's father, son of the refugee, refused to contribute in any way whatsoever. So he was put in prison. Where he lived throughout WWII in a big building, safely, sheltered, with food and heat provided by the taxpayers who were fighting for their islands, their families and their lives and their history.

The contempt I have for this individual who has been complicit in the attempted destruction of our ancient society, despite the refuge accorded to his shitty family, is so profound it cannot be plumbed.

If there is one person in British public life who I loathe more than Tony Blair, it's Jack Straw. (Third is David Cameron; but I digress.)

Verity

Nicholas - astute, not to say brilliant, post.

Rich de L

Maria
"I still still it hard to believe bbc newswriters are that ignorant."

Almost everything the BBC writes or says about the former USSR is ignorant nonsense. In their "in-depth" series on WW2 in the USSR they put the total Soviet dead at about 18 million - a long-since discredited Communist figure - whereas the total is close to 27 million

Nicholas

Why are the Audit Commission jumping on the political bandwagon with "something must be done" comments about care for the elderly? Shouldn't they be immersed in number crunching and writing scathing reports on the morbidly obese waste and incompetence of the public sector? Or are they just another New Labour glove puppet with the Spinning and Dirty Tricks Department shoved up their backside?

And why have none of the mediariat yet made the obvious connection between the problem of funding care for the elderly and deliberately increasing the size of the population (and the future problem) by allowing unrestricted immigration on a huge and unprecedented scale? It's like a man choosing to own 10 cars complaining about how much he has to spend on their running costs and then expecting all his neighbours who only have one car to contribute to them.

NO MORE TAXES. In my view the long suffering British should not have to pay for the sabotage of their own country. Get your house in order you government numpties; cut out the waste, the own goals and all the imbecilic "projects" first.

Derek

Nicholas

I think you'll find that the mediariat are catching on. See for example, Alison Little's article in the Daily Express on 17th February: "BRITAIN’S cash-strapped councils sent out a stark message yesterday that they are struggling to cope with the impact of high immigration"; or James Bowell in the FT on 16th February: "Cash-strapped English towns at the centre of the previous decade's immigration boom say they are struggling to cope as a continued influx belies ministerial claims that numbers have peaked".

Btw, in so far as the English officialese on the Audit Commission's website is comprehensible, it seems they have been given steadily increasing powers and will be releasing a "strategic plan " (after the general election...). Perhaps we should encourage this development and fight to extend those powers to the audit of the European Union, a somewhat overdue, if challenging, task for this "independent watchdog" as it describes itself, now that the Labcons have largely integrated our polity with the Beast of Brussels.

Haldane

I thought you would all be interested in this interview with Neather (amongst others) taken from a Radio4 documentary broadcast on February 14th at 21.30.

GOODHART: That’s Tim Finch of the IPPR think tank - which
helped to shape New Labour’s immigration policy - there explaining
centre-left insouciance about this historic transformation of Britain.
And it has been historic. There are two aspects of immigration: the
churn of people who come for a few years, then go home. Then there’s
also the flow of people who come to live here permanently. The churn
since 1997 has been enormous. In just 12 years, 5.4 million foreign
citizens have come for at least a year. Perhaps more important, about
1.6 million people have been granted permanent right of residence in
that time - mainly from developing countries. Some people cavil at the
term mass immigration, but if that is not “mass”, I don’t know what is.
Andrew Neather, a former Number 10 speechwriter, recently wrote a
much-discussed article in the Evening Standard in praise of
multicultural London, but suggesting that the New Labour people
involved in immigration policy were politically programmed to be
completely relaxed about such numbers.
NEATHER: One of the reasons they don’t really seem to have cared
that much was because you know they broadly viewed immigration as a
good thing, both culturally and in terms of the labour market. They
were committed to multiculturalism sort of as a facet of social justice, if
you like.

GOODHART: Which in itself is connected to the collapse of so many
other left-of- centre ideas - I mean giving up on any sort of distinctive
left-of-centre political economy, giving up on the working class.

NEATHER: Absolutely, absolutely, and I think diversity as a leftist
language of social justice and, if you like, I mean crudely seeing ethnic
minorities as essentially the standard bearers of the sort of social justice
rather than the working class and traditionally the white working class.
And that’s definitely something which emerged in this country in the
sort of 80s, 90s.

GOODHART: It’s one thing to be influenced by a broadly pro-
diversity world view - a view shared not just by Labour people but by
Liberal Democrats, progressive Tories and, who knows, many people
who work at the BBC - but it’s quite another thing to be engaged in
some grand act of social engineering. Or is it? Sir Andrew Green chairs
Migrationwatch, a pressure group which argues for greater control over
immigration.

GREEN: I think one should not overlook a remark by Chris Mullin, a
former Labour minister, that one reason why they did virtually nothing
about arranged marriages for the purpose of immigration is that Labour
relied on the Asian vote for 20 seats. That’s in his own autobiography.

GOODHART: But they were not trying to engineer a new Britain.

GREEN: I don’t think you can generalise to that extent. I think it’s at
least possible that some people had that intention. I don’t say the entire
Labour Party had that intention, but I think it’s at least possible that a
significant and active element on the left had that in mind as being a
way of undermining, if not destroying, a traditional England to which
they’re strongly opposed.
GOODHART: You may not be surprised to hear that David Blunkett -
the tough-minded Labour Home Secretary from 2001 to 2004 -
completely rejects Andrew Green’s notion.

Derek

The crowded anti-Israeli bandwagon has taken little notice of the fact that the only people arrested so far happen to be "Palestinians" and are said to have connections with Fatah, the mortal enemy of the other gang, Hamas, whose chief goon, the unlamented Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, was assassinated in Dubai. Do none of these "rush to judgment" journalists and assorted politicos ever stop to consider the possibility of a black op or are their anti-Israeli Pavlovian responses beyond the control of their faculty for reasoned analysis?

Derek

Haldane

interested indeed! - especially in Andrew Green's observation that "I think it’s at least possible that a
significant and active element on the left had that in mind as being a
way of undermining, if not destroying, a traditional England to which
they’re strongly opposed".

Unfortunate though that this doesn't seem of any particular interest to Mr. Fraser Nelson. Could that be because he is strongly opposed to a traditional England?

Ronnie

I note, Wilhelm, that you deleted the word 'simplistic' when you quoted me above.

Fragile, aren't you.

Maria

Rich de L
"Almost everything the BBC writes or says about the former USSR is ignorant nonsense."

I agree re figures.
Shall I say my remarks are tongue in cheek.
Remember Guy Burgess used to work for the beeb, but that is, of course, the old days!

Wilhelm

Ronnie

I didnt want to hurt your feelings by calling you simplistic.

Derek

I think it would be fair to say that the USSR would not have prevailed against the Nazi armies had it not been for the matériel supplied at great cost, in every sense, by Anglo-American cooperation on the Murmansk run.

Ronnie

I'm touched Wilhelm.

Derek, I think it also fair to point out that the winter that froze the German sixth army to death at Stalingrad did as much damage to Nazi ambition as our weapons.

Frank P

Mark Steyn at his seething, excoriating best on the Geert Wilders case:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/18/the-absurd-trial-of-geert-wilders/

God help us all; the turgid waters of Islam rise higher and higher. Rise up you dumpty Dhimmis of my grandchildrens' generation! Repel not only the bomb wielding bozos, but also the ideological invaders (aka 'Moderate Muslims') that have intimidated the judicial processes of the West. Ecrasez l'infame!

AAE

Further to the love-in over Jack Straw, on Michael Cockeral's BBC programme Great Offices of State, Comrade Jack slipped the word "Inshallah" casually into the conversation. Would he have felt so comfortable saying in English, "if Allah wills it"? Or, given his ethnicity, "if Yaweh wills it"? One only needs to ask the question. It's high time Fraser put Mark Steyn back on the payroll, and in the meantime I recommend Coffee Housers go to the Fox News site, and watch Glenn Beck's daily demolition of the Progressives.

Beer Moth

Whatever happened to BS 5750?

No, I know that it was somehow subsumed by some other label, but what happened to the all the noise it used to generate in the business world?

Mid 80s into the next decade, there seemed to be something wrong with anyone who wasn't accredited or working towards some form of quality control or whatever it said it did. I remember looking on at people who were totally grabbed by it and believed it was going to change our whole way of doing things. I remember thinking no it isn't, it's some more spivs selling glass beads.

I mention it only because, the mild hysteria and the unthinking flock toward something, based on the say-so of 'experts' or 'those in authority'; all that seems like some kind of practice run for some of the ideas which are purveyed today.

But where the hell did all the panic over BS 5750 go to?

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

AAE: Please don't make me sick by reminding me that the foul Straw had a Jewish great-grandfather. He is a disgrace to all Jewish, Christian and any other people who are decent and just want to lead normal lives. Don't take G-d's name in vain mentioning it in the same breathe as Jack Straw. Please. he really makes me ill.
On to another matter. Has anybody else noticd how the BBC News has so little respect for British fallen soldiers, that the news is reported as a third, fourth or even fifth item?. Tonight, the tragic death of a nineteen year old soldier was slipped in after rubbish concerning a geriatric gay who boasts that he murdered an unnamed man, the escape of a criminal during a court hearing lunch time, and other items. Where was weeping Gordon, sniffling on his coat sleeve, with an onion concealed in his handkerchief?.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Does anybody know what's happening? Replied to an interesting posting from EA or AE, went to have a light supper and returned to find his/her post had vanished. I do hope the Wall isn 't becoming like the BBC blogging forums.

David Ossitt

Where have the two blogs gone?

I switched on to Coffee House; round about 5.20pm, within a minute the top two had been removed!

I can’t quite remember the first one which was quite contentious but the second gave us first sight of the new “Dave strip cartoon”.

Why have these two been removed?

Noa Zrk

Figures this week suggested that British companies are planning job cuts of 6% this year, with 25% of those lost jobs to be sourced overseas.

Does anyone other than me consider that the off-shoring of work, by both the public and private sector, in addition to the sale and control of what remains of British Industry, is nothing less than sheerest stupidity? A lost job is lost revenue, lost tax, a lost work opportunity and a net increase in the tax benefits burden. The disincentivisation of the export of such work should be a major priority to all the parties, it is of course ignored, except by the BNP.
In the meantime of course, foreign aid continues to flow, to India in particular, but also other countries in the post empire diaspora, who take this work from the UK and enhance their intellectual and economic base as the expense of ours.

MikeF

Moth - It is now called ISO9000.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Please what is going on? Postings appear and then disappear? Is this Neather Neather Land?

EC

Beer Moth: "Whatever happened to BS 5750?"

It probably got buried beneath ISO9000/9001, IIP, Prince2 and a host of other tick-box, jobsworth charters.

I remember BS5750 quite fondly because when posters or signs proudly announced, "Built to BS5750" somebody would invariably write underneath, "So was The Titanic!"

Verity

AAE - If people could stop jumping in and referring to a possible return of Mark Steyn, that would be nice.

It is definitely not within Fraser's power to recommission Mr Steyn. You may have noticed that he no longer writes for The Telegraph, either.

Frank P

Sadly for Mark Steyn his work continues to be published in this Magazine via its blogs on almost a daily basis; he just doesn't get paid. I'll bet he cries all the way to the bank (with the other receipts from his syndicated columns, his book royalties and takings from other paraphernalia sold via his website).

Btw, did any of you read his father's obit in the Times recently:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article6998945.ece

It perhaps provides an insight into the source of Mark's multifaceted talents?

Surprised he didn't broach the passing in his writings somewhere. Wonder if they were estranged?

Frank P

A wonderful video rant from Pat Condell on the Wilders trial that must be disseminated as widely as possible; will make the hairs on your scruff stand up:

http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/enemies_foreign_domestic/something_wonderful_pat_c.php

h/t Vanderleun - of course.

framer

Is that Rory Stewart overpromoted or what (Question Time last night)?

He could hardly get more than two sentences out.

Stuart Seacole Smith

Thanks Frank P and others for the Geert Wilders links - interesting and worrying stuff.

More generally, was listening this morning to the BBC world service, just for fun, and I was reminded of a really good comment I saw posted on one of the Speccie comment boards about how much of the left, and the left-leaning media such as the BBC, is forever frozen in a narrow rebellious adolescence. This morning's "news" was virtually identical to the issues I might have expected to hear talked about in my University refectory 20 years ago:
- Tibet (Obama visit)
- Whaling (Australia threatening legal action on Japan - go Rudd you student activist you!)
- Unions (lack there-of, bemoaned on "Business bashing Daily")

Yawn.

Can it really be possible that these are the most important global issues of the day? Or might it just be the relentless, remorseless rain-man style obsession of immature left-wingers with ramming their hobby-horse issues down the collective global throat?

Follow this later in the day with a carefully liberal-moderated "World have your say" programme, and hey presto, after about a decade you've got the gullible around the world marching to your tune and thinking it was their own idea!

MwuuuahHaaaHaahah!!!

Paul B

Framer, on the contrary,I thought Rory Stewart was very interesting and thought provoking, especially on Afghanistan, where he quietened the audience and the other panel members listened to him with respect.

Vulture

Coffee Houser alert!

Check out today's Daily Mail. There's a story that - in its own way - is as explosive as neathergate.

The Mail has got hold of a secret CCHQ document written by 14-year-old public school trougher Michael Gove abt how to impose wimmin, gays and ethnic minorities in safe seats by 'Stealth' (his word).

If you are whbite, straight or male you are not welcome in Dave's new Marxist socially engineered Tory party. Read and be afraid.

Any last reason for voting for this shower has just disappeared. I hope the Tories lose the election.

Nicholas

Paul B agreed. Interesting chap.

On the other hand no-one challenged that windbag Hattersley on exactly where the government money that he suggested should be poured in to keep the steel plant going was to come from. No-one said "Roy, you blustering balloon, THERE IS NO MONEY!". Typical Labour. Got a problem, throw other peoples money at it.

radgie gadgie

Has dave said anything about Neathergate or the Geert Wilders show trial yet? or any of the (well named) Shadow Cabinet'?

Austin Barry

I've given-up on Diversity Dave.

It's a pity that Rory Stewart isn't the Tory leader. Here is a man of real intellectual substance and courage (check out his cv) and with an odd kind of scruffy charisma.

Verity

Frank P “Surprised he didn't broach the passing in his writings somewhere. Wonder if they were estranged?” You must have noticed that he doesn’t share his private life in any way. And nor should he. I’ll go to the link you kindly posted, though.

Stuart Seacole Smith – “Or might it just be the relentless, remorseless rain-man style obsession of immature left-wingers with ramming their hobby-horse issues down the collective global throat?”

Yes.

Vulture – “I hope the Tories lose the election.” I am pleased that more people are seeing the light about Dave and his project and his colleagues. Foul creatures all. I see that George Osborne’s brother’s been in the news again ... (The last time was when he converted to islam in full pantomime Aladdin get-up). This time he has been prescribing drugs to people without informing their physicians, which is apparently against the law. (Perhaps it’s not against shariah law, though.) A very bizarre family, to put it mildly. How is nonentity George Osborne qualified to be the Shadow Chancellor? A puzzlement.

Vulture

@Verity:
Yes, I guess no-one has mentioned Osbers mi's troubles on this site out of politeness. After all, George can't be held responsible for Mohammed al Osborne's ( Or whatever his new Islamic name is) little errors of judgement, can he? I believe the drug concerned was cocaine. A similar substance to that young George was unwisely pictured with in his foolish youth. Along with a black dominatrix - an amusing episode that has never really been explained.

Let's speak plainly: Dave and he are a couple of louche, slightly dim, upper-class wastrels with not a clue what to do to pull Britain out of the deepest shit its been in since WW2.

Alexandrovich

Thanks for the tip Vulture.

"Like a conjuror, we'll get more applause if the audience cannot see exactly how the trick is performed. The clever approach is to maintain the illusion that a good cross-section of approved candidates is being offered."

I wonder how TrevorsDen will justify this.

Better file this with Neather.

Verity

Vulture, yes, I assumed that the drug Osborne Minor "prescribed" without informing the recipients' doctors was something similar. Quite a newsworthy chap, isn't he? Given the conversion to a bonkers desert religion and the rather imaginative get-up he wore for the ceremony.

Neither George Osborne nor Dave has a clue about what's wrong with Britain. Not a glimmering. Dave thinks he's going to get elected because he has discarded his jacket. The few ideas he has had could have come out of Moscow 25 years ago. Killing free enterprise seems to be his latest big idea.

EC

Paul B, Nicholas,

Rory Stewart is indeed a well travelled and an interesting chap. He wrote and presented an absorbing and informative two hour, two part documentary called "The Legacy of Lawrence of Arabia." It was screened around Christmas time. If it is ever repeated it is well worth viewing.

I don't understand why someone as intelligent as him is bothering with party politics. He won't enjoy the company that he will have to keep.

Frank P

EC @2.48pm

I looked the Stewart LOR up on the BBC site and it is marked on the iplayer "Sorry this programme is not available to watch again."
Someone has inserted ("why")in blue ink after the notice. Intriguing..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pyrw

EC

Frank P @3:19pm

Somebody has uploaded it to YouTube in twelve parts!
i.e. Ep. 1 of 2 parts 1-6, and Ep 2 of 2 parts 1- 6.

Here is Ep. 1 Part 1 of 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABBUzAtnmUQ

after this you will have to ratch about for the others as I cannot see a playlist - at first sight.

It worth a look whether or not you agree with his analysis.
It is filmed in some stunningly beautiful locations.

Nicholas

EC: thanks. Yes I watched both parts of the programme and agree. It deserved better attention (none of the people I mention it to have watched it), combining a perspective that was both historical and radical and demonstrating how often in our recent history talent and foresight falls victim to mediocrity and vested interests.

Austin Barry's description sums him up very well and resonates with the larger than life characters which once populated our glorious history - intellectual substance, courage and scruffy charisma indeed. It was interesting how his demeanour, voice and words held even the bolshy shop steward types in the audience and even quietened Dimblebore. He would make an excellent Tory leader, a cut above the current crop of appeasers and mealy-mouthed populists.

Frank P

Verity

Actually Mark has discussed his background from time to time; I remember once on Steynonline when someone 'accused' him of being Jewish, he deflected the comment by stating that he was a Canadian born lapsed Catholic with Belgian forebears. I'm not trying to deny him any right of privacy; but he is someone whose writing, politics and philosophy I admire - and he is an international public figure. As with you in the case of George Osborne, I find family relationships of the famous interesting, particularly so when artistic talent seems to be genetic. The question of nature-nurture crops up in so many ways.

Mark's Wiki entry has another intriguing line, "He has stated "the last Jewish female in my line was one of my paternal great-grandmothers and that both my grandmothers were Catholic".

Curious, considering that Donald, his Dad, was so well known in art circles and warranted a Times obituary (and was of Russian Jewish descent). Just sayin'

Y chromosomes interest me; and father-son schisms (if and when they exist). There is inevitably a sad story to be told when they do.

Perhaps someone should commission a Donald Steyn biography - a very interesting character indeed it seems, judging by his obit.

David Ossitt

framer

“Is that Rory Stewart overpromoted [sic] or what (Question Time last night)?

He could hardly get more than two sentences out.”

Rubbish, balderdash, codswallop, Rory Stewart made a refreshing change, he spoke with the calm intelligent authority of a man who has achieved much in his thirty-six years, and will, I am convinced make a first class member of parliament.

Frank P

Thanks EC; that will keep me out of mischief for a bit. He seems a nice young man, by the way - reminds me a bit of Dirk Bogarde in his youth.

David Ossitt

At 2.52am Frank P; urges us to watch a wonderful video rant, from Pat Condell on the link below:-

http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/cat_enemies_foreign_domestic.php

Well I just have; and I want to thank Frank for introducing me to this link, please do as Frank urges and watch it for yourselves it only lasts 7.51minutes.

Kevyn Bodman

Vulture:
Hasn't Cameron got a First?

If so he can't be described as dim.

You might not like his spineless,Blue Labour policies,I certainly don't, but he's not dim.

Verity

Frank P, I didn't recall ever having read anything personal about Steyn. I think he keeps himself out of the limelight in a personal sense because he has a lot of violent enemies in the religion of peace.

Kevyn Bodman

Tiger Woods' press conference/speech:
I can understand why SKYNEWS showed it;it fits in with their 'news' agenda.

But why did BBC World show it?

'Rich sportsman has sex with women not his wife' is not admirable,but it's not news either.

Maybe the BBC really is as bad as many of you say it is.

David Ossitt

Did anyone else notice on last nights Question Time; that the pompous bag of wind and grotesque lump of lard that is, Roy Sydney George Hattersley, The Baron Hattersley, now calls himself a social democrat?

Verity

Well, well, well ... Just as Cameron is the Tories' own Blair, the Tories' own Neather is Michael Gove, charged, according to The Daily Mail, with getting rid of traditional Tories. (We would never have guessed). The Mail's come by some of his report and it is not pretty reading.

http://tinyurl.com/ygfsplb

One taster: "The document suggests using 'stealth' and stresses the importance of keeping 'quiet' over the plans to ensure more women, ethnic and gay candidates. 'Like a conjuror, we'll get more applause if the audience cannot see exactly how the trick is performed,".

Frank P

Verity (4.54pm)

You may be right; it's one thing bravely taking on Islamic jihad through your writings, another putting your extended family at risk - good point! Don't they do fatwas any more, incidentally? Did they end those after Ayatollah Khomeni's demise, or something? Considering what happened to Salman Rushdie for writing a novel, you would have thought they would have gone nuclear over Mark's relentless pressure and ridicule. The man sure has nuts like cantaloupes. I also like the way he loyally stands by his friend and erstwhile employer Conrad Black, when all the other beneficiaries of the largesse of the Blacks deserted him like rats off a sinking ship.

Steyn augurs that Black may yet get the conviction quashed. If he does, I hope he does a hostile reverse take-over of both the Speccy and the Telegraph. Might restore them to conservatism. We can dream.

Nicholas

David Ossitt - yes. They played him out as "Lord Hattersley".

Beer Moth

Is it true Roy Hattersley's car has wipers on the inside of the screen?

Frank P

David Ossit

Glad you enjoyed Condell's video. You'll probably enjoy this one also:

http://www.youtube.com/patcondell#p/u/3/KjSjpNe1-Vc

Ghengis

On the whole, I am beginning to be swayed by the grumbles re Cameron -- surely he should have instantly disassociated himself from the veiws expressed by Winterton and removed him from the Conservative party.
Methinks he's lost sight of the importance of protecting existing votes.

Verity

No comments on what I wrote above about the Tories' own Neather, Michael Gove, and his plans to introduce by stealth - as the immigrants were infused our country by stealth - a completely revamped Conservative Party, getting rid of "dinosaurs" (like people who hold to the right) and force more gays, ethnics and women into constituencies?

When Cameron said in Parliament that he was the "heir to Blair", I for one took him seriously, and indeed Cameron is trying to drag the Tory party to the left of the Marxists into progressive European socialism.

If you go to the link I posted above, you will read of everything Cameron and Gove have been doing in the background to rid themselves of the old-fashioned Conservative heartlands and get some good old multicultural diversified socialism infused into the party. On the sly, though - "like", as Gove said, "a conjurer". Sleight of hand.

I thought I couldn't hate anyone more than Tony Blair and Jack Straw, but I've got to admit, Cameron's a real contender.

Except Cameron and Co are so inept, they cannot do anything by stealth. They are so dismissive of the intelligence and the acuity of Conservatives, that what they were up to has been glaringly obvious to many of us here.

Verity

Well, well, well, wha' do you know! The page has been removed from the Mailonline site. How very odd, given what a huge story it is.

However, if you follow my link, (three or four comments above this post) you can still access the article and comments as they were yesterday. Had the piece been left up, the comments would have been in the thousands by now.

Vulture

@Kevyn Bodman writes 'Hasn't Cameron got a First?'

Indeed he has. In PPE at Oxford, I believe.

I don't want to blow my trumpet, but so have I. History - at the other place. I
can assure you its not THAT difficult.

By 'dim' I meant lack of common sense. Overweeing arrogance. The sort of idiot stupidity that would make you ride a bike with your limo purring along behind.

Perhaps it takes a first class mind to do something as dumb as that. And there have been many similar incidents since, so its clearly inbuilt.

Verity

President Felipe Calderon of Mexico has a Bachelor's in Law, a Masters in Economics plus a Masters in Public Administration from Harvard.

Just sayin' ...

Frank P

beer moth

Hattersley: - shades of spitting image? I can never get their animated mask of him out of my mind - and he lives up to it each time his pudgy mug appears on TV.

Austin Barry

Good news from the Netherlands.

Come the Dutch election in May, Geert Wilders' Freedom Party will likely have a huge electoral breakthrough.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Austin Barry: Agree. Just hope this helps some of wimps here to get some Dutch courage!

Verity

Austin Barry - Fingers crossed! If worse comes to worst, I'm sure his old mate Hirsi Ali will help him get a post at the American Enterprise Insitute and he can tell fascist Holland to bugger off.

But I digress. I actually came to the wall to post this: Obama "has had multiple Social Security numbers, none issued by Hawaii, the state he said he was born in. The SS number he has now was issued in Connecticut in 1976-1979. In his swearing in as a lawyer to the Illinois State Bar, to the question of whether he had used any other name in his lifetime, he answered "No". Yet he once applied for a grant, as a foreign student from Indonesia, under Barry Soetoro. Hat tip An American at Conservative Cabbie.)

O

Re: Stephan Pollard's article on MR.Curtis.
With all due respect to Stephan Pollards opinion on Mr. Curtis, It's bovine stercus ! The question that comes to mind is, what has he ever done to seriously make a positive difference in peoples lives. His job, to criticise, seems to be a way, perhaps, for him to deal with his own inadequadecies. Has he ever even tried to help anyone out of sheer charity? Perhaps he has, or maybe he's happy just to criticise others for things that he may not be capable of. Richard Curtis's path may not be perfect but he's helped a lot more people than Mr. Pollard could probably ever imagine in his limited sense of human compassion. May I suggest that he look at himself in the mirror and be honest, try a bit of criticism, and ask himself if he's really in a position to judge someone who has done a lot more for humanity than I suspect he ever will.

Sarah

Stephen Pollard's negative opinion of Richard Curtis' efforts to make a positive difference in the world reads as the spitting of a bitter man. May you see the light, Mr Pollard, at least Mr Curtis is trying.

Andrew Bristow

Michael Portillo hits the nail on the head today in his column in the Sunday Times. Well worth a read. Team Cameron need to do some serious re-thinking because Brown and the Labour Government should be dead and buried at this stage. The Cameron strategy is not an election winner as it stands. Voters need to see a clear distinction between the current mob and what the Tories will do on the economy and deficit.

Frank P

Verity (1.01pm 20.2.)

I wonder if the Neather silence of our host Editor was a trade off with Gove who foresaw his own sub rosa agenda being exposed one day?

Let's face it kiddo, they're all at it! And to all of them, we are all useful idiots to be cajoled, deceived, used and abused according to their wont and whim. That's why they got their PPE degrees at our expense (one way or another). You at least have voted with your feet and can have you way with THEM with a postal from afar - or can you?

Nicholas

I'm waiting for a new wall before I fully fisk Hugo Rifkind's nasty assertion in last week's Speccie that we Coffee House commentators are just immigration-obsessed nuts - who can't spell.

I don't know, they set up Coffee House, invite us in, then set up The Wall for our "free expression". Then the Editor promises a response on Neathergate, breaks his promise for unknown and mysterious reasons and instead one of the house journos is allowed to insult us in the magazine. What is that all about?

Ghengis

We are heading for an election in which triviality is to be the prevailing issue. Trivia is daily vomited by .gov which has the benefit of twelve years of practise. It is apparent that the opposition is missing the trivia that will produce the votes needed to shake GB off his perch. Ms Pratt has done more overnight than their party machine in the past month by refering to a lack of a "due process" set up by GB. She's one angry lady we need more like her to speak up.