The Tories need to talk about immigration

Austin Barry

Immigration is not really the problem. Unsympathetic immigration from the Third and Islamic World is the problem and under no circumstances will Dave talk about that.

Perhaps his best bet is to adopt the Eric Idle approach and advise voters that he will do something about the issues raised unflinchingly by Crime Watch, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, know what I mean, squire.....

Gabriel

The Conservatives need to make it clear that they are going to take a clear and responsible line on immigration but otherwise I think the public generally understand that under the Conservatives there will be no open-door immigration based on cranky idealogy. They cannot go too far on this subject as the British public likes to think it is nice to people from other races and cultures and does not want its sensibilities tarnished.

TomTom

Andy Coulson’s instinct that Sayeeda Warsi is the best messenger for the Tories on this subject is sound.

Well she was an Immigration Lawyer in Dewsbury but could not get elected there....so just which constituency will she be addressing ?

michael m

Yes we should ram down people's throats the Labour Party's record- but why are we not drawing the obvious conclusion that this does not qualify them to be trusted to put it right.
How much more borrowed money- our money- is Brown going to throw at his problem- do we know? Has he ever been asked?
I remember that Margaret Thatcher used to say in 1979 when asked what she was going to do about the rising inflation would always remind people with her reply " Who put it up?"

I fear that the party is sleepwalking into an electoral shambles- come on Cameron show some firm leadership, vision and resolve so that people will know that under your command, all the country will better and richer.
Winston Churchill had to save the country 70 years ago- your task is to do the same.

ron

and all you guys are supposed to be so clever?

you wont be getting my vote this

Simon Denis

They certainly do need to address this issue, but having mumbled about it for the last four years, their shouting about it now would look bad. I pause to note that had Howard and co not stepped down after 05 but had stepped up - to the plate of a long campaign, the Tories would look strong, consistent and trustworthy. Political cross dressing worked for Labour because socialism had failed; nobody thought the same of conservatism until the conservatives themselves so spectacularly lost confidence and turned to Cameron. But recriminations are for after a defeat - let us hope they remain unnecessary. For now the Tories need to operate a two pronged campaign - continuing to offer their moderate policies, ferociously criticising Labour's record and only attacking personalities in relation to that record. Purely personal attacks are considered childish as Farage found out on Question Time last night. Cameron's philosophy of "balance" at his top table is leading to a push-me-pull-you campaign - Hilton bland unhappily mixed with Osborne sharp, whilst Dave the opportunist leaps into the arena only to disappoint us all with pinprick sniping. If only the Tories had had the guts to stick to their 05 guns. They failed to realise that they had only just started the sort of hard pounding which generates long term change.

charles hercock

No no no.See the Times today --Dave has bagged the NHS cancer star since Labour has lost its way on Health-Lets stick with the labour territory.All the world will trust us already on immigration

perdix

the Tories are talking immigration:
http://www.conservatives.com/News/News_stories/2010/02/Labours_immigration_failure.aspx

sinosimon

assuming this rash of something must be done posts is related to the polls........perhaps it is as well to look at this.... political betting
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/02/26/guest-slot-from-flockers-on-yougov/
it seems before christmas in dozens of polls yougov were weghting aprox 1.5 - 2 against the tories, yet since christmas they have been weighting around 6 against……with no apparent change in methodology or sample size.
rather strange no? so the raw tory lead is around 15 points…….but magically ends up as low as even 5-6 when weighting kicks in. hmmmmmmm……curioser and curioser. I’m sure mr baroness ashton has a very good reason for this apparent change, perhaps you could get him to share it with us? i am no expert so am forced to bow to those that are....but how can raw figures of con 43, lab 28, end up with a six point lead? unless every poll was taken outside the doors of a conservative club....but then of course someone as professional as mr Kellner would make sure this wouldn't happen. I am not trying to suggest some wild eyed conspiracy here, as yougov is a commercial organisation that depends on the respect of business people ass well as the media, i just genuinely don't understand what is going on here......it should be noted that yougov's raw numbers map beautifully onto angus reid...which have been more or less stable for 6 months......

Simone

"Sayeeda Warsi is the best messenger for the Tories on this subject."

Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. What will Labour do then when they can't play the race card?

Immigration is a huge issue today, especially Islamic immigration. You only need to visit a thread or two in CIF (Guardian) to see that Islam and immigration is unpopular with the left wing voters too. Actually, I was surprised at the
strength of feeling.

GARY SMITH

AUSTIN BARRY; SIY NOMOWER

London Calling

However …Immigration should not be used as political propaganda for flagging poll percentages. I do not consider Punch and Judy politics worthy of a public backlash that would ultimately result in racist attacks against innocent citizens in Britain as a consequence. The current climate is too volatile.

Talk about strengthening Immigration control by all means, it is essential…
Talk about where we go from here…paramount.

HFC

ories also need to be forced to talk about carbon taxes and the rest of the warming issues. It appears they have fully bought into the alarmist camp and refuse to consider that the 'concensus' that is now so much discredited may have overplayed the scant evidence fortelling catastrophe.

I have had a letter from Camerons office telling me that we must go green; it is stuffed full of the usual weasely rubbish upon which opinion rather than proof has been built.

Anyone want to read it? I'll happily put it up on this site.

radgie gadgie

Dave doesnt want to bang on about Immigration, or Europe, or Cuts. Elections are won on one or two big issues. Blair did for the tired sleazy Tories, Thatcher won on the over mighty union message and bankrupt Britain..so what big issue or 2 will dave win it on? If there is a hung Parliament it would be a direct result of the nebulous nature of the Tories' message and image. To put it bluntly, if dave is to win all the key marginals plus for a good majority he will have to show in a basic and simple fashion that he isnt just an effete public school ponce. He hasnt yet got that across and the only way to do that is to have a strong message. Sure..... he's convinced us all that hes 'nice' - but that wont be enough.

EyeSee

Right, first of all kick racism into the corner. I'm fed up with people falling for the spoiling tactic of the left-liberal to stifle debate. Immigration is the movement of people from one (historic) land to another (historic) land. Over time, for a great deal of which travel was difficult, very separate cultures grew up not least due to that isolation. These cultures defined a nation. Britain became known for sensible, reliable, fair thinking. For the stiff upper lip. Whilst Europe and its nations squabbled Britain stood aloof, or assisted in stopping tyrants, without ever being the tyrant. This cultural inheritence meant that you always understood your neighbour, because essentially they aacted in the same way you did. Even when the accent was different, the attitude was essentially the same. Incomers had to assimilate and usually saw merit in doing so; they came here because of the prevailing culture (without necessarily dismissing their own). Now however we have immigrants who know of the prevalence of left-liberal ideology and come with demands on the country they deign to adopt. This is exacerbated by our close neighbours and the bastard child of Napoleon that is the EU. People who we have little in common with, now have an absolute right to come here and work and settle. The left talks of the solution being 'world government' as this makes us all the same. This was all the rage when I was at schol, not least because it is a childish concept. Just as the EU imposing the Euro was about politics of power not economics so you cannot enforce a culture 'top down'. The reason Britain maintained a steady hand on the tiller whilst all about lost their heads in revolutions and war, was because the culture was based on the will of the people. Common Law and policing by consent are uniquely British constructs and bring benefits for the whole of society. New Labour have sought to destroy Britain by moving to the Code Napoleon (everything is illegal unless the State allows it, for us it has always been the other way around) and by bringing in huge numbers of immigrants with alien cultures. Further, it was important to do nothing to assimilate these people, but to ghetto-ise them thus ensuring cultural divisions. The Party would require a compliant and largely unthinking police force (service since their 'nads were removed) which has been largely achieved by getting their buy-in to Political Correctness. However, the military would need to be weakened and preferably kept employed overseas. Strikes me the Tories need to deal with immigration and a great deal else. I don't need a Britain for the British, I just need a British Britain.

Paul Williams

You'll notice the little phrase hidden down in the paragraphs though; 'non-EU' What are the Tories going to do about EU immigration - oh that's right nothing because they can't.

Verity

"Sure..... he's convinced us all that hes 'nice'".

He certainly hasn't convinced me that he's "nice"! He's convinced me that he's greedy, grasping, shallow, expectational and unsympathetic.

Dorothy Wilson

Yes, the Conservatives do need to talk about immigration.

Apart from that they need two headings: Labour Rhetorics and Labour Realities. Then use those to set out the comparisons.

ben

If the Conservatives are not going to do anything about Islamic immigration is it worth voting for them?

Jez

GROUNDHOG DAY!!!!!!!!!

ARRGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Kennybhoy

Verity!

Here you are!

"...trite personal remarks that are made about him by people who have clearly never met him are irritating."

Fergus Pickering

An effete public-school ponce, eh? That's really telling 'em. Can you be effete and/or a ponce WITHOUT attending a public school, or is it obligatory. And are all products of public schools effete ponces or just some of them? I was educated at a free state school and there were plenty of effete ponces there I do assure you. If Cameron loses this election it will, self-evidently, be because he is a public school man, unlike the man who won Labour three elections in a row, for instance.

Simone

@EyeSee: Great post! Thank you. Spot on.

Not sure how we get out of the current mess though. Many of us can see the problems, but the solutions are difficult to find eg.
how to assimilate millions of people, many of whom are now hostile.

This is Labour's rotten legacy; how they must love all this; rubbing the country's
nose in diversity and divisions.

Herbert Thornton

This all sounds more and more like the jaded notion that "talking" will solve the problem between India and Pakistan over Kashmir, the problem of genocide in Sudan, the problem of Iran's haste to become the second country to possess an "Islamic bomb" and the many problems that Israel has with Gaza etc.

Britain doesn't need a party that "talks" about immigration. It needs a party that can be relied on to stop all immigration - and in the case of Islamic immigration, reverse it.

Who can possibly imagine that a party led by David Cameron will ever raise a finger to do that? Or, for that matter that it will actually do so even if Cameron promises to do it? Remember how the nation's faith that there would be a referendum on the European "constitution" was followed by Cameron's meek acceptance of the Lisbon Treaty. Cameron's core belief seems to seems to be that the graver a problem is, the more essential it is to ignore it.

Marcher Baron

"I think the public generally understand that under the Conservatives there will be no open-door immigration based on cranky idealogy." Are you sure, Gabriel? I understood that Dave had said there would be an open door for African homosexuals fleeing persecution.

The difference between 2005 and 2010 is more than just five years; Neather has shown just what the purpose of Labour's unlimited immigration policy was, there are increasing strains between conflicting ideologies following the lack of integration that was an inevitable consequence of multiculturalism, and the demographics show that more babies are being born to foreign-born mothers. If you extrapolate that, the indigenous population is on the red list.

stephen

It will be great if Cameron can use Hague more on the Economic front. At least he is an adult and had a proper job [?at McKinsey]

Holly ......

4.38.
AND YOU ARE?

Beer Moth

Well said Herbert.

If the Tories do get round to mentioning this problem, it will no doubt be couched in terms of the public perception of threat; their failure, in their ignorance, to see the big picture.

They will join the good Doctors - some of whom write here at the Spectator - who are exasperated by the naivete of the public and their barely educated concerns, as they file into the surgery, complaining of their sicknesses, purely imagined.

"They only thinkthere is a problem you see"

Dennis Churchill

Herbert Thornton
But “Talking” is all our political class has experience of. Student debates, Researchers, lawyers, politicians...talk, talk...

2trueblue

If Monday passes and Brown does not call the election I will be amazed. The six weeks will be interesting.
Cameron needs to ditch the green issue until the facts are in. Right now there is so much that is not proven and what is out there has been compromised. Immigration has already promised limited immigration. That message just has to be said again and again.

Looking after those in the country is what most people are interested in. The economy question will be top of the agenda and the myth that Liebore have any idea what is going on must be and should be done, and must be exposed as such. Brown and his crew are the people who did not see it coming, were at the helm, cosying up to the bankers, running the FSA, and who had emptied the purse so that we have no buffer against the repercussions of the worst recession in our lifetime. They have flip flopped as to whether to cut, whereto cut, not to cut, yes we'll cut, no we can't, ....... Can't remember now what Mandy has told Brown he must do? OH it's Friday so yes we'll cut, but can't give you any details.

Cameron should be clear on the issues and go for it, but with a bunch of opponents like Liebore you need to keep things close to the chest until the last run up because they are as crafty as a barrel load of monkeys. Liebore have the media in their pockets and keep Brown away from people like andrew Neil and Randall.

Verity, What is it with you? If the blog is about Cameron you are in there, same old, same old, same old stuff. What did he to you?

teledu

"It was a strategic mistake in 2005 to talk about immigration so much..."
Oh yes? It was such a big mistake that, even as a still toxic brand, the Conservatives polled more votes in England than Labour. So, was it such a mistake?

G Butler.

The problem with immigration is that people are more concerned with what has happened, rather than what is to come. Yes people want tougher controls, but their concern is with the mass immigration that has already occurred.

This surely must be the reason why immigration is ranked highly as a concern outside of elections, yet drops in importance nearer polling day.
The ballot box is used to vote for change, but people know you cannot vote to change the past.

Noa Zrk

Hmmm.

The battlelines are already drawn on migration, both inward and out and the Tories have daringly placed themselves on the pusillanimous side of obsequity on the issue.
A 150 seat majority would not see them address the raft of inter-related issues that constitute our failed state. They entirely lack the vision and courage to reform Parliament, re-gain independence from Europe, abolish political correctness, establish border control, end benefit travel and rapidly deport or jail Islamist and foreign criminals.

And Sayeeda Warsi is the best messenger for the Tories?
What, precisely, is that message?

Verity

Noa Zark - Seconded.

Call me Infidel

"Andy Coulson’s instinct that Sayeeda Warsi is the best messenger for the Tories on this subject is sound."

That would be the same Baroness Warsi who claimed on Question Time that there was no such thing as a bogus asylum seeker.....Oh yes, definitely the best person for comments on immigration.

Gabriel

‘If religion perishes in the land, truth and justice will also. We have already strayed too far from the faith of our fathers. Let us return to it, for it is the only thing that can save us.’—Lord Denning

If Satan were allowed to form a government, he would create New Labour. In order to counter the deceit of New Labour, you need to be anchored in the truth but you also need to be 'as cunning as serpents'.

Don't fall into the trap of harping on about immigration and allow them to portray you as racists.

Counter their ploys by placing an immigrant (e.g. Baroness Warsi) in charge of the immigration brief and let them try to accuse her of being racist.

Give some thought as to where the British freedoms came from. The answer is Christian teaching on the dignity and freedom of the individual.

Give some thought as to where the current problems of multiculturalism and EU bureaucracy come from. Answer: the anti-Christian teaching of Marxism and of the French Revolution.

Jack R

The scale of Labour's mass immigration is unprecedented,and needs to be stopped in the interest of the British people.

A high percentage of this mass immigration has taken the form of unskilled labour from areas such as Pakistan and Bangladesh.This has put economic and cultural pressures on British society. Economically, this directly hits the wage levels and the employment prospects of lower paid British workers, Also, there is a propensity for immigrant Muslims not to integrate into British society, but to want to Islamise it.

We have learnt recently how Labour has stealthily imposed its 'multiculturalism' on the British in this way; and one of Labour's intentions has been to get into British as many of these Labour-voting immigrants as possible.

Labour deserves to be thrown out for this alone.