Why we should give the Elgin Marbles back to Greece

John David Barnett

What was it Maggie said? NO! NO! NO!

AndyinBrum

How about an indefinate loan?

Richard Manns

Your true opinion, despite recognising that they were paid for, is revealed at the end by calling it "Elgin's loot."

And, much as it is easy to demand that a trust's property rights be trampled for political expediency, a) it's not so easy and b) do you really want to live in a UK where such things happen? Doesn't the State take enough away from us all?

Greystead

An interesting point of view that seemed balanced and weel thought out until right at the end when the words "Elgin's loot" were used to refer to the marbles. The word loot means plunder, illegally obtained goods etc. Since the author has already stated that the marbles were bought from the Ottoman authorities who ruled Greece at the time and were obtained legally then why call them loot?

Hawkeye

People in Greece will be losing their jobs and homes. Do you think that they will give a monkeys about a bit of marble?

The Elgin marbles matter only to the intelligentsia on both countries. The bulk of the population in both countries probably do not even know what the Elgin marbles are.

Grenville

Yes. We should give the Falklands back too. That would be great for Argentina and would further our strategic interests in South America immensely. And Gibraltar too. In Europe. And I'm sure the Norwegians would love the Shetlands back. In fact, come to think of it, I bet if the Danelaw should go back to the Danes that would be great for Denmark.

Daniel Korski

Richard,

My "true" opinion is that he probably took them legitimately, but they now need to be given back - for good, political reasons.

Second, I am not sure I think the marbles belong to me - so do not think giving them back would mean the state taking something from me, as you imply it would.

Daniel

Pinko Tory

The blog starts from the assumption that we should 'return' the Marbles. By what logic do we believe that the bankrupt Greek state, which entered the Euro on blatantly fiddled data, would either somehow transform itself into a viable economy or actually come to a reasonable view over Macedonia because the Marbles were in the Acropolis Museum. Total nonsense.

Vulture

Excuse me, this is by some distance the battiest post I have ever read by a CH regular ( amidst fierce competition).

Can you let us know why it would remotely be in Britain's interest to bail out a failed socialist Prime Minister and his bankrupt land? (Apart from the fact that we're in the same boat - ie. we too are bankrupt and ruled by a failed socialist..)

Papandreou, just like the rulers of North Korea, is also a great nepotist: not only his dad, but his granddaddy too were failed socialist Prime Ministers in their turn. They like to keep failure in the family in Greece.

Fraid Greece won't be playing with its marbles any time soon. We can't afford to ship them, and they can't afford to keep them. Time for your medication Mr Kookski.
Then take a long lie-down in a darkened room.

Publius

No.

And as for:
"Nothing would boost Papandreou's popularity more than if the marbles were brought home under his premiership."

Well, I for one don't want to boost his popularity. It's none of my business. Or yours.

Chris W

We could look at selling them to Greece. That might help bring down the Browndeficit. Anything else we could sell?

Jask

These objects were paid for, they are legally here.

JONNY

The sheer joy of viewing them back in Athens after 200 years, where they belong, in the superlative new Museum designed for them, far outweighs any arguments to the contrary.

michael m

Doubtless they can pawn them in order to pay off the IMF

Chris

Dear me, how very, very silly.

Incidentally, it's 'Shetland' or 'the Shetland Islands,' Grenville, not 'the Shetlands.' (Ditto for 'the Orkneys.')

Edmud Jerk

I agree with you, they must be given back. If not now, then sometime in the future. But I don't think this will set a precedent for other countries wanting their loot back. We should acknowledge, and force the Greeks to acknowledge, that the marbles were safer in the British Museum's hands than with them over the years. And that now they have a museum - albeit a hideously ugly one - to house them, we can give them back. We don't want this to look like they've won a great victory against a weak, formerly great, colonial power or anything.

Grenville

@ Chris.

That's what you think. But the Norwegian for them is......?

djw2009

Daniel Korski, are you the resident Socialist Worker? Every single blog post I have read of yours has been written from the far-left point of view. Do you think you might be writing for the wrong publication? The Elgin Marbles are ours. Period. Nothing to discuss with the Greeks.

CM

Terrible idea. They'll probably sell it.

djw2009

Why do you keep banging on about Macedonia and Moldavia? Is your name Korski of Macedonian origin? Or one of those countries? If you're in the UK, why don't you just identify with the UK and not with any Slavic countries? I am sick of all this ethnic self-interest. I don't want to hear about Macedonia again.

Chuck Unsworth

With things as they are in Greece, maybe we could buy them from the Greeks now. They're desperate for cash - £50, say?

London Calling

Have you lost your marbles? The last thing Greece needs right now is large rock
as beautiful the sculpture is. If it were made of Gold though, that would be another matter entirely seeing as they are still sore about the Nazi’s nicking theirs, which reminds me, I was at a Art lecture some years ago presented by a curator from the National History Museum who asked our group what all the objects in the British Museum had in common, I raised my hand and said “They were all stolen” and judging from the deafening silence that followed and a few grunts I took it I had given a foolish answer or that maybe I had said too much. The Marbles therefore are not yours or mine to give back even if your gesture is a sincere one…;)

denis cooper

Rather than going off on this tangent, Mr K, you'd do better to spend your time checking the "no bail-out" clauses in the EU treaties, Articles 123 - 125 in the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, carried over from provisions deliberately inserted in the Maastricht Treaty to make sure that EU member states would never be either expected, or legally permitted, to bail each other out.

They're on pdf page 53 here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:115:0047:0199:EN:PDF

for you to study.

Then you might consider that all EU member states are parties to those treaty articles, including the UK even though we're not in the eurozone, and that by virtue of Act of Parliament those articles have been incorporated into our constitution.

And that therefore under both EU law and our national law Gordon Brown has no legal authority to allow the governments of other EU member states to arbitrarily dispense with those treaty articles, even if the UK makes no financial contribution to an illegal bail-out of Greece.

If you're wondering why Merkel is prevaricating about a bail-out, it's not just a matter of the money but because she knows that some people in Germany are much hotter about these constitutional details, and would take it to the Federal Constitutional Court.

Unlike our Tories, who would feign indignation about the money but say nothing about the illegality.

strapworld

Well, if we follow the suggestion of Mr Korski it should not stop with the Elgin Marbles. We should return all of the British Museum's displays to whereever they came from.

The building could then be used as temporary accomodation for all the immigrants, coming into the country, to learn to speak and understand English.

Or given to the Islamists to adapt into a Central London Mosque.

Anyway, when the EU becomes The United States of Europe all these artifacts will be housed in a massive European Museum of European Culture based in Brussels, Berlin or Paris the decision is yet to be confirmed.

So my jest for another use for the British Museum Building is valid.

Bruce FInch

As usual complete twaddle from Daniel Korski. They were legally acquired and will remain in the UK. If you returned them there would be a flood for our other museums to return all artefacts. Hopeless

london Calling

Have you lost your marbles? The last thing Greece needs right now is large rock
as beautiful the sculpture is. If it were made of Gold though, that would be another matter entirely seeing as they are still sore about the Nazi’s nicking theirs, which reminds me, I was at a Art lecture some years ago presented by a curator from the National History Museum who asked our group what all the objects in the British Museum had in common, I raised my hand and said “They were all stolen” and judging from the deafening silence that followed and a few grunts I took it I had given a foolish answer or that maybe I had said too much. The Marbles therefore are not yours or mine to give back even if your gesture is a sincere one…;)

Daniel Korski

djw2009

Perhaps giving your intervention more attention than it deserves, I thought I'd just pick you up on a few madcap notions in your commentary.

Your charge of ethnic favouritism is particularly ignorant -- and probably born of bigotry. My surname, Korski, was invented by my Vienna-born, Jewish grandfather to escape the Nazis in war-time Poland. So there is not much Slavic blood in my veins to speak of - that I know of. If there was, I would not mind as I dont divide the world in such ethnic categories, but there probably is not.

But even if there was, any kinship with the Moldovans would be difficult to establish; besides a small majority, they are not Slavs. Now, there is an on-going discussion about how to refer to them, but few would call them Slavs. The Macedonians are a different matter. They are a South Slavic people, except the ethnic Albanians, of course. But if you look at my views - in this case support for the Greeks and previously in support of Macedonia, you'd be hard-pressed to suceed with a charge of ethnic favouritism.

Strapworld,

I am not saying the marbles are Greek. I am saying the claim can be interpreted either way -- and that politics, not concern for the British Museum, is what matters. I would not support "return[ing] all of the British Museum's displays to whereever they came from." I support returning this one - for reasons of force majeure.

Denis Cooper

Thanks for the references to the EU treaties -- you have always taken them a lot more seriously than any EU countries ever have.

Vulture,

There is no denying the dynastic nature of Greek democracy, something that the Greeks ought to alter if they know what is good for them and want to create a thriving, meritocratic state. But so should the US (cf. the Adams, Lodges, Kennedys, Rockerfellers, Bushs, Clintons) and Britain.
After a few years of Karimanlis' right-wing government, I am just not sure you can blame Papandreou for the current mess.

Sam Schulman

The Greeks don't need prestige - they need Euros. Sell the Elgin marbles to the Germans and donate the proceeds to the Greek debtors (I will broker the deal at a very reasonable fee).

Alfred T Mahan

So should all art be returned to its country of origin? What a poor world that would be.

The Elgin marbles were properly paid for, so they should stay where they are. End of story.

Paulg

The British museum was founded to preserve and bring together all the wonders of humanity, so humanity can see them in one place.
pride of place must be afforded to Greek culture, a culture that guides and informs humaity some two and a half millenia later.
To deny all people from around the world to see the the wonders of ancient Greece and its place at the forefront of the human existance is an act of barbarism.
The Greeks should take pride in the fact that their heritage that we saved is at the fore front of the pantheon. For all the world to wonder at, in context.

Frank P

Mr Pappadopeyloser

Beware of Foreign Office policy wonks with Johnny foreigner names bearing gifts of property that doesn't belong to them.

And Fraser who is this shadowy figure who keeps popping up on these pages? Why is he here, other than to further the cause of the EUSSR (like most of the rest of the hack contributors to this organ it would seem.

Kevyn Bodman

1)The Elgin Marbles were bought;they are ours.

2) I don't want to see Greece, the Eurozone or the EU helped in this way.
I want it all to collapse and I would not lift a finger to delay that collapse.

Other than ease of crossing borders (and there are other ways of facilitating that) the EU is of very little benefit to the non-political class of Europe.
It is, however, of very great benefit to the small political class in control.

Europa

Greece deserves NO MERCY! They have brought poor Macedonia to the brink over 17 years, only because they could. Now that Greece is or will be bankrupt, it's time to pay them back.

As for Greeks being related to the old ones: Oh, please. Just Google 'Arvanites', and 'Karamanlis'

JONNY

Good grief.
What the Marbles are ours just because Lord Elgin nipped in and stole them!
Or rather got 'em bargain price off the bloody Turks.
They'll be saying the rich oil deposits off the Malvinas, thousands of miles away, belong to the UK next.
Post Imperialism - a stale fantasy of sad deluded people with nowhere to go.

KB

More insanity from Korski.

Here's a better idea. Now that's gotta hurt. Not much chance of moral hazard there.

AAE

Have you been in Athens anytime recently? In what way would violating the property rights of the British Museum improve daily life in Greece? About as much as the wholesale destruction of country houses in England and a tax rate of 98% made life better in the Gorbals. The assumption of the Left that the State can appropriate anything and anybody (remember Gordon Brown's "Presumed Consent" with the proposed harvesting of human organs?) in pursuit of political ends needs to be slapped down far more than in it is (excepting the CpffeeHouse of course). And I'm struggling with the idea that seeing the Elgin Marbles in an artificially lit, air-conditioned concrete tomb in Athens would differ appreciably from seeing it in pretty much the same environment in London. I mean, do you find looking at a Rembrandt in Amsterdam a greater experience than seeing one in the National Gallery? If you do, you need to look around, not through, your political prism which only magnifies your ego and distorts the very image itself.

Dan Asta

The colonial mentality is a habit that just keeps coming back. When are you all going to get sick and tired of it. The rest of the world laughs at the idea that England doesn't break rules. How do you guys look in the mirror in the morning?

djw2009

OK, so now I know, Daniel Korski, that you are not Macedonian, but your constantly droning on about how important the Balkans are to the UK (they are not) is what raised the question of why you are so insistent on Eastern and South-eastern Europe. It turns out you are just a one-world fantasist. The UK does NOT control the world, and shouldn't seek to. Macedonia is an irrelevance to us, as is Moldavia. Why does the Spectator insist on employing socialists on its web staff? I just don't get it. One thing you're not, Daniel, is a conservative. It sounds like you might be a wannabe neo-con, but, as you will know if you have looked into it, they are all ex-Trotskyists, as I suspect you are. What are you doing blogging for the Spectator? The other day you were droning on about Mauritania - who cares about Mauritania? This is all nonsense. All this foreign policy stuff is nonsense - our interests are just independence, free trade and the defence of our territories - and nothing else. What was the other piece of nonsense? The foreign secretary should be briefed on the Turkic arc? The Turkic world is really nothing to do with us - stop this utter rot. If we can trade with the Uzbeks, that is all we would ever want - and the rest is just left-wing extremism. Thankfully, the rise of China will put paid to the neo-cons eventually.

Osming

What do we owe Papandreou? Nothing. What do we owe Greece? Absolutely nothing. My father spent some of 1941 trying to defend these whingers from the Germans. What did he get in return? Four years in a german prison camp (unlike many of his comrades who remain there forever). We acquired the Elgin Marbles legitimately and we have paid for them in blood.

HJ

Daniel Korski:

"I support returning this one - for reasons of force majeure."

What force majeure would that be then? Force Majeure is a term used in legal contracts which frees either or both parties from the obligations of a contract in the case of an external extraordinary event (e.g. natural disaster or war) outside the control of the parties concerned which affects their ability to fulfill the contract.

What is the major external unforeseen event you are referring to?

JohnAnt

Yes, I agree: of course we did buy and pay for the Elgin Marbles, and they can't be 'restored' to a nation state that didn't exist when we acquired them, and admittedly they certainly couldn't and wouldn't be restored to their place on the Parthenon, they'd just languish on the wall of some nearby EU-taxpayer-funded museum to which a large entrance fee would allow a few tourists access on two or three hours of a few days a week; but we mustn't think of those irksome details; we simply have to help poor old Papandreou to persuade the electorate by giving him a large present.
I've been thinking of donating my house to him. It's the least one can do.
And it'll so impress those lovely Athenian taxi drivers, few of whom have ever visited the Acropolis.

Trebor64

The new museum is wonderful.
The marbles belong there.
Let's give them back.

Vulture

Dear Daniel,
If you are going to come over all expert on matters Hellenic, at least try to spell the names of the leading figures correctly: the Karamanlis dynasty is spelt thus, not with an 'i'.

As to the Papas, the visit of Mr Zuma to London reminds me that the father of the current Greek PM, Andreas Papandreou, was another geriatric lech who did his dicky heart no good at all by marrying that air hostess with the most amazing knockers ever seen : you might say they were little Pap's great paps.. In fact I believe he died soon after their nuptials, but I am sure that he died happy. The current PM is the progeny of Mrs Pap No. 1, a wizened American Marxist harridan.

Here endeth the Greek lesson : but please could you post a pic of Mrs Pap 2 to cheer us all up? No? Shame....

The current Pap

Anan

All these national treasures should be returned to their country of origin. What a Greek masterpiece is doing in England I have no idea. I'm sure Greece has been "safe" enough for decades, if not longer.

Verity

Daniel Korski is a raving loony.

Jonny - look 'superlative' up in the dictionary, for God's sake!

Mr Korski's leftist drivel always puts me in a bad mood because I don't expect to counter it in The Speccie.

I once read something by Korski, here, that wasn't about politics at all (can't remember the subject now) but it was beautifully written and I read every word.

J C H Mounsey

The answer to the 'should-we-or-shouldn't-we-return-the-Elgin-Marbles question is quite simple. They are an integral part of a unique ancient monument and as such should be reunited with it. We should therefore return them, but only if they can be replaced on the Parthenon from where they were removed. If this is not presently possible (for example because of air pollution) then surely it's up to the Greeks to take the necessary action to improve the air quality so that they CAN be reinstated. Until then, they can stay here. Seeing them in a Greek Museum rather than the British Museum wouldn't enhance the viewing experience in any way. But seeing them in situ once more - now that would be something!

Publius

"But seeing them in situ once more - now that would be something!"

You wouldn't be able to see them without a ladder. They'd be far too high up.

JONNY

Yes Verity - superlative.
That's what I wrote and that's what I meant.
Now please shut up.
I don't need no diction-airy ducky.

ajs

Gracious me!
All descendants of slaves should be sent back to Africa. All those who descend from the original Mother in Africa should be sent back there. Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer may be allowed to stay wherever his ancestors came from.
Do not pass GO, do not collect £200 (now worth Zimbabwean dollars 159 approx).

Verity

Jonny. Incorrect.

The Cat Anan

Anan - I have imported the name 'Anan' from India and I am not giving it back.

Hank

How would the Brits react if the Greeks hold something of their value?
Ha, If they have any.

George

The only thing in common that the Elgin marbles and the use of the name Macedonia by the Slavs is they are both STOLEN.

An Aussie

How did this writer, mix up the Parthenon Marbles issue with the 'Macedonia' issue?
If the writer were British, he would check the facts of both cases beforehand:
Here they are:
1. See Christopher Hitchens text on the Parthenon marbles;
2. See the opinion of world scholars on the 'Macedonia' issue at
www.macedonia-evidence.org.
But of greater concern is this publication printing racist rants by authors who know nothing about both topics.
I invite your readers to consult the about source (and especially this author).
PS. The people who inhabit this country FYROM, speak Bulgarian, have Bulgarian names and placenames,etc. They should be proud of this fact, instead of trying to reinvent themselves as Greeks(ie.Macedonians).

denis cooper

Daniel, I take the EU treaties seriously because they are part of our constitutional law, as repeatedly emphasised by our judges.

However German politicians may regard other parts of the EU treaties, those "no bail-out" clauses were regarded as essential. In fact without them Germany would never have agreed to economic and monetary union, which France in particular wanted to reduce the risk that a re-unified Germany would revert to being an aggressive neighbour.

And some German politicians still stand firmly on those "no bail-out" articles, and have good reason to believe that their view would be supported by the Constitutional Court.

Today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8550430.stm

"But with support for her centre-right coalition slipping before the May regional election in North Rhine-Westphalia - Germany's most populous state - Mrs Merkel has reassured voters that she will not use taxpayers' money, nor breach the "no bail-out clause" in the EU's Maastricht Treaty."

djw2009

Daniel Korski wrote: "Your charge of ethnic favouritism is particularly ignorant -- and probably born of bigotry. My surname, Korski, was invented by my Vienna-born, Jewish grandfather to escape the Nazis in war-time Poland. So there is not much Slavic blood in my veins to speak of - that I know of. If there was, I would not mind as I dont divide the world in such ethnic categories, but there probably is not."

Actually, Daniel Korski, you DO divide the world into ethnic categories. Like every member of an ethnic or cultural minority, you play these ethnic categories for all it is worth. You imply that I am "bigoted" about you in the quotation above - when I had manifestly not known whether you were Macedonian or not from your constant wittering on about the Balkans - that told me that you are not above immediately issuing accusations of bigotry when you are challenged - as do most ethnic minority people who "use" multi-culturalism to further their interests. You clearly do divide the world up ethnically - and rely on this to silence anyone who challenges you. You are no different to the Yasmin Alibhai-Browns of this world in this respect. May I suggest that you simply integrate in our country? That requires dropping the bigotry allegations completely - and refusing to "wield" the weaponry of multi-culturalism against those of us who are of British descent. You're either with us or not.

james

You can't even play marbles with them. They are ntohing special. I walked right past them in the British Museum.

Richard Manns

@ Daniel Korski

Do you retract your use of the term, "Elgin's loot"? If you were merely quoting, use quotation marks.

And when did I claim the marbles belonged to you? I certainly stated that they belonged to a trust. I never said that they would be taken from you. I asked why you thought, implicitly, that property law ought to be trampled for political expediency, and whether you had thought out the political ramifications.

Or perhaps you didn't know that the Elgin Marbles are owned by a trust, not the UK itself? If so, it questions your research for the article as a whole.

Edward Sutherland

What an off-the-wall article by Mr Korski. Thank goodness he is not, and never likely to be, a trustee of the British Museum. Trustees are required to be prudent in their actions. Nothing could be more imprudent than to hand over priceless assets, legally acquired, on the basis of some half-baked assurances from here-today-gone-tomorrow politicans.

Johnny

When you go the British museum and stand their and admire the Marbles. Does one really think these belong in the UK? Return these home to their motherland. It is obvious that they belong to an important ancient wonder and this needs to be respected.

On the other hand, on the issue of Macedonia, the Slav inhabitants of FYROM who have nothing to do with the ancient Macedonians, have changed the names of streets to ancient Macedonian ones (i.e. Greek names), they have been erecting statues of ancient Macedonian heroes (i.e. Greek names) and they are building monuments and naming them after ancient Macedonian kings (i.e. Greek names). Macedonia is and has always been the northern province of Greece for more than 2,000 years. The Macedonian people of Greece have always been Hellenic or Greek, just like the people of Cyprus have been Greek. There is an inscripted stone in the entrance of government building in Skopje for the pride of Ancient Macedonians :
μακεδονιαρχων των ναων τη πατριδι συν παντι τω κοσμω τω θκτ' ετει
I m sure it will be easy for Skopians to translate the language of their suposed ancestors (lolski. • Alexander was no Slavic Czar because the Slavs did not appear in his Macedonia for another thousand years after he died. The epigraphic record easily proves the Greek language of the ancient Macedonians. And what better proof that the Macedonians spoke Greek than the clear fact that Greek was the language that the Macedonians propagated to the far corners of their Macedonian Empire. The Hellenistic kingdoms were not Athenian, nor Spartan or Theban kingdoms. They were purely Macedonian Kingdoms established by Macedonians in Egypt, Syria, Asia Minor - Turkey, Afghanistan, India, Thrace - Bulgaria and Persia - Iran. FYROM´s ancient cities, all in the southern part of that land, are giving up to the Modern Slavic and Albanian speaking archaeologists their secretes in marble inscriptions and they are all in Greek…and few in Latin, very few, all after the conquest. No other language appears in these lands, and for sure no Albanian nor Slavic whether Bulgarian or Slavomacedonian.

BCRPM

Support is particularly welcome when it comes in an unlikely place. Just how unlikely, is shown by the savage replies from many of your correspondents. This makes you a brave man, but I'm not sure it was such a good idea to bring economics and politics into it. The reunification of the Marbles is an issue that no longer has anything to do with money and not much with past history (though GREYSTEAD and others should note the difference between 'brought' and 'bought'. Elgin did NOT buy the Marbles.) The core of the issue is simply this; the Marbles are a supreme work of art that is split into two halves. The pieces actually join up. They should be seen together and today we have the first chance in a couple of thousand years to bring that about.

Professor Anthony Snodgrass (Chairman for the British Committee for the Reunification of the Parthenon Marbles www.parthenonuk.com)

François Roelants du Vivier

I welcome this article that shows an evolution in the British debate about the return - or not- of the Parthenon marbles. We are many in Belgium to think that a general return of all works of art to their countries of origin is nonsense; only in a few specific cases this return should take place. And, indeed, the Parthenon marbles are one of those cases, mainly because it was part of the building called the Parthenon, from which some parts were savagely sawed by Lord Elgin; the UK would be admired worldwide by a generous gesture at a time where Greece needs the support of its European partners.

Senator Roelants du Vivier
Art historian
Chairman, the Belgian Committee for the reunification of the Parthenon marbles

Johnny

I disagree. Why should works of art not be returned? It is usually those in possession of these works that have this view. Don't you think that a country's cultural history is a work of art? Where will it stop if Greece's cultural history is also allowed to be stolen.

Peter

Will Greece returne the ancient findings discovered at Vergina to the Macedonians? Andronikos made it clear,they are Macedonian, not Greek. These findings should be presented to "Rainbow" in Florina (Lerin) so the indigenouse Macedonians can enjoy them,and not displayed in Athens as being Greek.

Johnny

@ Peter - Cultural theft is what I'm talking about and you are the accomplise speaking this way. Get your history correct and do not read your Skopje altered texts. Skopjians need to wake up and realise Santa Clause in not real, and you are not descendants of Alexander, but Slavs who arrived in the area 1000 years after.

When Euripides – who died and was buried in Macedonia (Thucydides apud Pal. Anth. 7.45; Pausanias 1.2.2; Diodorus Siculus 13.103) – wrote his play Archelaos in honor of the great-uncle of Alexander, did he write it in Slavic? When he wrote the Bacchai while at the court of Archelaos did he not write it in Greek even as it has survived to us? Or should we imagine that Euripides was a "Macedonian" who wrote in Slavic (at a date when that language is not attested) which was translated into Greek?
What was the language of instruction when Aristotle taught Alexander? What language was carried by Alexander with him on his expedition to the East? Why do we have ancient inscriptions in Greek in settlements established by Alexander as far away as Afghanistan, and none in Slavic? Why did Greek become the lingua franca in Alexander’s empire if he was actually a "Macedonian"? Why was the New Testament written in Greek rather than Slavic?

Please don't use this blog to post Skopjian propaganda about Macedonia. Macedonia is a region of Greece and not a race of people.

Hitler is credited with saying "Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth." In some way this provides an explanation as to why the inhabitants of The FYROM are so adamant about keeping the name “Macedonia.” Now, fifty-eight years after the start of the campaign of distortion, stealing and absorption of the HELLENIC history and ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians, we find that the inhabitants of The FYROM are mostly the children of 1944 and those that were born afterwards and who grew up with these untruths. To them these have become facts.

me

firstly i found it funny that so many of you people seem to be retarded such at thus guy rambling on that macedonia is greece, umm yeah about that you idiot, funny you think macedonia ia northern greece and that dialect is like completely different so pull your head out of your ass and just give them their name..

and back to the elgin marbles, well lord elgin didnt steal them, obviously greek security shouldve been a level or two above what it was, because if they were your prized possessions you wouldve been taking care of them better..

on that note, londons the world heritage centre so just let them keep the marbles when you obviously have the whole parthenon in greece so whats the big deal.. haha i laugh at your stupidity johnny..

Terry Burnett

I'm amazed by the cynical attitude of most of the writers who will not look at matters from the Greek point of view and who refuse point blank to even consider their repatriation. It's true they were bought, but not from the Greeks. They were bought from the occupying power at the time, the Turks who had no right to sell them. They are not ours and the wish to have them back where they belong, on the Parthenon is a perfectly justified one, whether you are English or Greek.

blue monkey

Greece and Spain won't pay back. The only thing Germans can do is:
REPOSES 170 Leopard 2AEX Battle Tanks from Greece, and 190 Leopard 2A6E Battle Tanks from Spain.
U.S.A must REPOSES 170 F-16 Jet Fighters from Greece, ... the rest is gone with the wind …forever …
Greece must stop paying lucrative pensions with borrowed money, reform the free health care system, and cut down, 4 times the military budged.

tymphaios

The question of the Elgin marbles has been debated for 200 years. The Turkish authorities were bribed, costs for dismantling them and transporting them were high, some items sunk mid-sea but the question of the legality has raged since.

Should Greeks in exchange for the Parthenon marbles donate the name of Macedonia to FYROM? What exactly would the deal be? An exchange of marbles in turn for an exchange in ethnicities?

Tasos

bring it back to greece,..just show the respect it deserves..an ancient wonder of the world sitting in a museum of a country that has no history to match the artifacts that it displays....just simply give the respect of the culture, history, slavery the country went through..were talking over 2 thousand years of history guys, and were trying to steal it..enough said

Andy

GIVE IT BACK