The prospect of another EU treaty is a huge problem for reformer Brown

Sally Chatterjee

Surely this is a simple question for the UK?

Cameron can merely point out that Britain is struggling already with its own public finances thanks a decade of Brown's delusions. Even so, we probably don't need charity from Brussels or Frankfurt. So "merci" and "vielen dank", but if anyone in Europe wants a special fund, they can pay for it themselves.

David Blackburn

Sally Chatterjee,

Not if the new arrangement circumvents Maastricht. And, it will need Britain's signature under Lisbon's rules. Not sure about the money angle. Will look into it.

London Calling

Can we have a referendum to end all Treaties? …And remove the stranglehold that currently prevents countries sorting out their own affairs…I love Europe…I just don’t want to be controlled by Europe…or hear about how wonderful a single European is for us all…when that all is a few and the public within European countries didn’t even get to vote for it. Is that Democracy? The we know better brigade got it wrong…the Public does have a right to vote on such an important issue…Greece exposed the flaw, Greece had and has flaws…don’t we all?

What goes round comes round…The circle of stars proves that…only they didn’t count on one between the eyes so soon…K.O.

Irene

On the contrary I think it is an opportune time for Cameron.

Robert Eve

It's always a good time to leave the EU.

Richard Manns

Cameron will want no interference from the French and Germans on his economic policies; he'll have enough trouble dealing with the "interest groups" in the UK as it is.

So he can simply tell Brussels "we've got enough, thanks", citing that we're not members of the Euro for good measure.

He can also whip out a referendum if the EU wants to play hard-ball, since Brussels now knows that in a referendum, if even France says no, what the UK will say involves only the middle finger, index finger optional.

Andy Leeds

You can bet the house on the fact that any EU stitch up will be paid for by the UK, as per. You can also bet they will move Heaven and Earth not to have to ask the consent of their peoples for any stitch up. Time we left this Fascist embryonic state.

Jon Kingsbury

How peculiar - this story has only cropped up in the Spectator and the Telegraph.

TrevorsDen

Surely a Euro-IMF is a matter for the Euro group of EU countries.

denis cooper

1. The purpose of a new treaty would not be as much to "circumvent" Maastricht, as to amend the treaties by removing the explicit "no bail-out" provisions introduced with Maastricht.

On the other hand, illegally bailing out Greece with money laundered through various covert channels could be an attempt to "circumvent" Maastricht.

2. It's by no means certain that such a treaty would be covered by the Tories' referendum pledge, one formulation of which is here:

http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/Where_we_stand/Europe.aspx

"A Conservative Government would change the law so that never again would a government be able to agree to a Treaty that hands over areas of power from Britain to the EU without a referendum."

It's already been made clear that this would not apply to treaties for the accession of new member states.

3. I guess that the eurocrats might be tempted to tack this treaty change on as a protocol to an accession treaty for Croatia and/or Iceland.

Edward Palmer

This could be the leverage needed to start to implement "The Plan" (which is essential reading for all Europhobes)

TGF UKIP

This story also runs v prominently in the arch europhile Fucking Terrible. The essence of the coverage is, though, because it would require a new treaty there is zero appetite for it in the immediate future even from Merkel and the French and even though the notion seems to have emanated from Merkel's own Finance Minister (a German Darling?)

Tyranosaurus

Who is this "reformer Brown" you refer to in the headline - surely you mean "road-block to reform Brown"

emil

What sort of logic dictates that this is inopportune for Cameron? I'd say it was a gift, and this time he can actually make a "cast iron guarantee" and deliver upon it.

Major Plonquer

Wait a minute. Doesn't Cameron have to win an election first?

Watt Tyler

James Kirkup at the Telegraph thinks that this is bad news for the Tories, and they definitely do not want to talk about it.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100029209/a-new-eu-treaty-i-see-trouble-ahead/

I have to laugh though. Do we seriously think that Cast-Iron Dave will have a referendum because he's promised one as policy?

He can promise to have referenda all he likes while it looks like they won't be needed. But its another story when the crunch comes.

If there is a change to the Constitutional Treaty over this fiscal issue, and Cameron does not have a referendum (as I am pretty sure he will not), I wonder how many of the useful idiots will still try to rationalise it, and keep stating their Tory support with increasing denial. This will be fun to watch.

TomTom

Any new Treaty has to satisfy the Bundesverfassungsgericht and that is the main constituency. The BRitish will simply go along for the ride - with a cosmetic opt out from lilac stationery - and comply as the docile British are wont to do.

TomTom

Of course emil, voters believe politicians promosing referenda and even 'cast-iron guarantees'...they have form...and we know that their word is their bond !

Dorothy Wilson

Jon Kingsbury: I am not quite sure what you mean by "this story". However, I would refer you - and others here - to Der Spiegel Online/Europe. The top two stories there are very interesting and detailed - and sometimes contradictory.

denis cooper

@ Watt Tyler - As with his pledge of a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, there are different versions of Cameron's pledge of a referendum on any future treaty. One version refers to any "amending" treaty, so that wouldn't apply to an accession treaty. Last summer the Irish were promised that a protocol giving legal force to their "guarantees" would be attached to the next treaty, which might be the accession treaty for Croatia, and I suppose the same route might be used for this. In that case, Cameron would have one element of a plausible argument that his pledge wasn't applicable.

JohnBUK

I suspect the Treaty will be an "amending" one again and with a silent "x" and introduced on a day with a "y" in it therefore there will be no need for a referendum.