Hague and Cameron are vindicated for leaving the EPP

Naomi Muse

A gift for the Tories to step up and state that a referendum on the EU will follow their election to government - guaranteed.

And, that the questions being asked will not be what would have been appropriate if the Lisbon Treaty had not been ratified.

The question will be whether to be in the EU as currently constituted or out?

For the EU to levy a tax directly should be something that all national governments say a very large, 'NO!' to.

Vulture

Britain should leave the European Union. Membership is completely inimical to our future freedom and prosperity.

John Adlington

I agree with vulture which is why Vulture should stop carping and get behind the conservatives. Far easier to influence their policy towards europe by threatening their continuance in office than denying them office at all with a petty EU-sceptic purity.

Richard

Skillfully done Sir!
You break what is probably the worst news Georgie boy could ever have, making it look like a positive.
This is a game changer and GB will be in a state of ecstacy now.
Goodbye Dave young man you are now sunk without trace.

toco

Even the discredited,unelected bully that is Gordon Brown will be able to get Mandelson,Damian McBride and Charlie Whelan to spin him out of this shambles brought about by the EU.Time for the hapless one to head back to the manse and stay there permanently.

John David Barnett

Who is this Richard guy? Can't spell "skilfully", whoever he is.

SUSAN HILL

Richard. Would you explain further please ? Why is this such bad news for DC ?

paulg

There will be no time to ratify this lunacy. Cameron must come out and use it as a sovereignty issue at the election; its a game changer alright it should get all conservatives behind the party

Fox in a box

Richard,

are you injesting large doses of LSD on a daily basis?

I'm concerned for you.

Dean

I've never understood why the UK can't negotiate a looser relationship with the EU, akin to that enjoyed by Switzerland, which still retains some control over its borders and tax regime.

Since this course of action seems to be perfectly feasible both economically and politically, why does our political elite refuse to countenance it as a possibility? The rest of the EU needs access to UK markets, so we have some leverage as a country.

Am I missing something?

Senor Frizby

The Eu is a liability - Britain, well managed, could do bloody well in this modern world. We need new leaders and new objectives.

I am prepared to accept the current Tory party against this lying, bullying, self gratifying mob that are steering us down the plughole.

Britain must and can transition towards brighter things. Time to get the message out.

Richard

@Susan

What is the big issue that has broken the Tories time and time again Europe! It will force a referendum in the UK and the party will decend into internal war.
If DC tries to block it against the majority of EU states he is toast and so are we.....60% of our trade is with the EU after all.
From the point of view of GB it is his idea and it will make the banks pay for their own mistakes in the future not the tax payer. It also ensures we the tax payer get our money back quicker with interest.
Thats why it's a bad day for the tories.
All we need now is for America to support it and its a done deal.

John Bracewell

Sadly, for those that think it gives Hague and Cameron the chance to give the UK a referendum on the EU, remember what Hague has just said - the Conservatives if in government after the election will not be picking any fights with the EU because they have enough to do correcting the UK economy. That does not sound like they are willing to counter this or any other EU measure.

luke

SUSAN HILL,

I imagine richard is referring to commets from senior tories that now look rather ridiculous in light of this vote. William Hague said at PMQs that the tobin tax "has been rejected throughout the world".

Hague said that Hague he "couldn't think of anyone internationally who was enthusiastic about the idea".

Turns out more or less every political party in europe is pretty enthusiastic.

strapworld

Richard has already explained to those that tried to be 'funny' and point out his misspelling. Dyslexia is a serious condition and I for one applaud him.

He, also, has challenging views. But he is as entitled as anyone to express them.

Others may be able to spell, but their lack of humanity shows what the 'modern' Cameron Conservative Party is!

Cameron has a great opportunity with this news, But will he use it for his advantage? Can camels fly? NO to both questions!

When will you all wake up and realise this man is a liability.

Stevie

Fat Jimmy Broons two best friends, Eric Daniels and Fred Goodwin will be the ones quaking. As will the entire economy when the banks and their money swan off to foreign climes.

Richard

@ John Bracewell,
Do you really think the sceptics will lie down and accept that once they get a sniff of a referendum? It will be civil war in the tory ranks.....

Ian Walker

I was pro-EU for years, but I fail to see what Britain gets out of it anymore.

I think we should leave the EU - and form a new European trading alliance, then let market forces decide in a true blue way.

paulg

Richard@ It looks like you have not read the small print....Brussels will be levying the tax themselves.

The British people won't be reaping any rewards from Britsh companies. This does not sound like a good sell to me on the door steps.

There is no need for you to worry the EU will give up exactly the same way a large part of the labour party have- without a fight.

If they don't after stabbing gordon in the back- all hell will be let loose on them.

Sun Tzu, the art of war- every battle is won before its fought. This one will be no exception, too many of you were persuaded to give up too soon.

stephen

Even mad bad Gord was talking today about UK plc's survival strategy being about building up our export markets in India and China. Cant the Tories develop a long term strategy to free us from this antrophyng[sorry spelling!] socialised hulk which is the EU; with its basket case currency! Despite its Green credentials it is rumoured the EU is raising tariffs on solar panels from China to protect those made in Germany!

denis cooper

@ Richard - It's not true that 60% of our trade is with the rest of the EU; in reality it's closer to 40%. However it is true that most of the time most of our trade deficit is with the rest of the EU.

denis cooper

I won't be surprised if the Tories try to at least play this down, and preferably ignore it altogether. Anything else could quickly develop into the forbidden activity of "banging on about Europe".

Sir Graphus

I expect to see the Tories screaming and shouting about this. It's an outrage. No body has the right to tax us unless we consent; i.e. a referendum.

If Brown consents then scream traitor.

cityboozer

You are all mental. This is a stupid idea but the Europarl has no authority to implement it.

It does show that the Tories and the rest of the ECR group are out of step with the easily-led low-grade bank clerks from Eurofanatic political parties across Europe. This will spin better for their opponents than for them but I don't think it will be reported outside political geek-land anyway.

General Zod

Richard, you cretin, this was not a vote on legislation, but an aspiration. It means nothing. Your rankIng at Labour HQ is clearly low, as you are paid to post what you are told to post (and you can't even transcribe it correctly). If you want to advance, you are going to have to learn a few things, such as how the EU legislative process works. I suspect such matters are some way beyond your intellect.

T .England

Just looking back through some EU quotes about tax!

"the British people will have to realise that the Union cannot survive without an independent stream of income."
Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, French President 1974-1981,

"We should create an 'own resource' for the Union in the form of a direct income tax, independent of nationality."
Jose Maria Gil-Robles, President of the European Parliament. Daily Telegraph 25 October 1998.

"The last time a new tax was launched in The Netherlands it resulted in the Eighty Years War. I am not sure a new tax for the EU would be much better this time."
Gerrit Zalm, Dutch Finance Minister. Televised debate with proponents of direct taxation by the EU from Belgium and Luxembourg, 9 July 2001.

& then comes the EU army!

"European Army and a European Police Force lie at the end of the road to European Union."
Helmut Kohl, German Chancellor 1982-1988,

Barbara

I would not get to excited about this, Hague has already stated they don't wish to be bogged down with internal fights with the EU, if or when they get the government, and the latter is not to certain. They might be bogged down with internal fights within the UK though, for Cameron showed weakness when he denied us the vote, to his shame and that of the Conservatives. This is the beginning of the EUSSR, it's creeping onwards and upwards, and we have such weaklings in our parties who are afraid to take them on, yet the still do not accept we has a nation have not given our consent, which will never do, we want out. We will of course have a choice this election, to vote for a party who will give us that choice, they should be warned at their peril at ignoring the electorate. This is really alarming, but nothing cannot be undone, anything is possible with the will to do it.

welease woger

Richard (Derek Draper) will continue to post his provocations as long as he continues to get a reaction. Ignore him and he'll get bored and go away.

Nicholas

Richard's use of the totemic New Labour phrase "game changer" reveals all.

A party with serious and self-confident policies would not need a "game changer" to approach winning a general election - only a cynical gang of spinners determined to try and retain power.

Richard

@General Zod

This is a vote in the EU that will allow the member states to implement this tax if they choose. There will be another vote but read the numbers and weep. GB put this proposal forward we know what Labour think about it Robin Hood Tax they call it for good reason.
This IS a real problem for DC and I for one will sit back and watch it unfold.

paulg

@cityboozer,
your having a laugh aren't you, this is gold dust to the tories. Its an invasion of our sovereignty, why did they not put a tax on german cars or french wine, simply because they know the labour party are simple minded and would accept it.

John Bracewell

@ Richard
You should know about civil war in your Labour party, after 3 attempts to oust Brown and 27 ministerial resignations. Unfortunately, for you, your fantasies will not come true as there will be no sniff of a referendum.

Athesius the Facilitator

General Zod-Richards ranking is not low. He is Canape quaffing Ed Balls, champagne drinking expense fiddling socialist.

Major Plonquer

I think a Tobin Tax is simply the best idea I've ever heard for we Britons who currently work in international banking. Of course most of us - certainly the smart ones - bailed out of London in 1997. But the view from China is excellent.

Tobin! Tobin! Tobin!

Destroy the City of London. Long Live Shanghai!

Holly ......

While Richard is busy doing Labour's
bidding,the adults are talking to us.
Just because the Conservatives are not on the TV all the time means nothing at this stage.What is the point anyway when Labour bods are allowed to just talk over them all the time.Cameron's time is better spent doing the rounds.
Do we really care whether Richard backs Labour or not?I certainly don't.
Cameron wiped the floor with Brown today,
yet the Richards of this world will believe their man was brilliant,because Brown and Labour jeered loudest.Let them continue to believe that.
Brown is onto a loser by critisising our military top brass.
Cameron is a canny lad and will beat Brown every time during the debates simply because
Brown is stale.
Brown said yesterday,"I won't let you down".
The stupid man does not realise he already has and no amount of 'Richards' will or can change that fact.
Bring it on Richard....Tick....tock...

Fergus Pickering

Richard, it is curious that, with all the resources of mighty Labour behind you, you still can't spell. But perhaps you were comprehensively educated, in other words scarcely educated at all. I wonder why Richard? Lionheart or hunchback. Or just plain Dickhead.

Sir Everard Digby

Richard - this nothing more than political grandstanding: in our 'global' economy I suggest financial transactions are easy to move: If two parties to a financial contract can just as easily sign and enforce the contract in the Cayman Islands as in New York or London, there is little point in US or UK/EU policymakers imposing a Tobin tax. Unless, of course, moving the finance industry offshore is the policy goal.

Yes,let's reduce our tax take-a brilliant move.

Vulture

@John Adlington

John, you say that the best way of achieving our goal of getting Britain out of the EU is to " stop carping and get behind the Conservatives" as we can then
'influence' their policy.

This is as illusory as the Tory line that Britain should stay in the EU and 'influence' Europe in a non-federalist direction.

The policy of the EU was set in stone from day 1: to move steadily towards 'ever closer union' culminating in the ultimate nightmare of a secretive, dictatorial, state socialist, bureaucratic re-run of the (E)USSR.

The best way of 'influencing' Tory policy in the direction of restoring freedom, independence and prosperity is to get the present Dave claque out of the leadership - signed up as they are to the EU agenda. (Dave used to wear the EU logo on his cufflinks FFS!).

Fortunately, Dave is so inept he looks set on doing our work for us.

stephen

As often seems the case with your postings there is a little lack of reality in your suggestion that the Yanks will support this Eurononesense. See today's FT about the stinging "one pager" the US Treasury Secretary has sent to the appropriate Eurocrat!

daniel maris

Dean - You're missing nothing. There is a structure for countries to remain independent in Europe and still have access to EU markets. It's called the EEA (European Economic Area) I think. The EU, Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are all members.

NO reason we couldn't join it - particularly since we soak up so many EU exports.

As an EEA member you basically have to accept the various EU edicts about banana straightness and so on, but you retain your essential control over foreign policy, defence, grants, agriculture, waste management, transport and so on - and you don't have to pay your huge EU subscription each year.

Nicholas

Holly - thank goodness for your post. For a moment this morning I thought I was on LabourList, the New Statesman or John Prescott's blog.

Moriarty

Richard: "This IS a real problem for DC and I for one will sit back and watch it unfold."

Splendid. Do you think you could do it quietly?

stephen maybery

How long before the politicos get the message. We the common Joes, whose votes get them into power and whose taxes pay for them when they get there, have had a belly full of The EU and want out. And while I am on the subject, it is way beyond time that the special relationship was led into the back parlour and quietly throttled, if America wants foreign troops to die in it's interests in Afghanistan then let them recruit a few Argentinians. As for the UN when, oh when, are we going to get shot of that bunch of anti British mendicants? So glad to have got that lot off my chest.

denis cooper

Switzerland is not part of the EEA.

EyeSee

Interesting that you think the Tories moving in the EU groupings was proved right by events, thus proving their foresight and analysis of the situation. Now, if we actually left the EU completely, we could make a correct decision based on the blindingly obvious. Would still be a good decision and help lift us out of recession faster. But what politcian puts people or country ahead of self and party these days?

John

Never mind the Tories having their hands full sorting out the UK economy, Europe has its hand full sorting out the PIGS, unless you seriously believe Romano Prodi's ludicrous proclamation that 'the Greek crisis is over' ?

Hugo van Randwyck

@ Dean and Daniel Maris,
There is another off-the-shelf option - EFTA.
EFTA = European Free Trade Association.
www.efta.int
If you click on 'EEA' and then 'seminars' you'll see powerpoint presentations. They have an office in Brussels. You can be a member if the EEA as a member of EFTA or EU. AS mentioned you run your own agriculture, fisheries, home affairs, justice and more.
Regulations reduce from 1000+ a year to 300.
Norway seems to be doing fine. A referendum could be held in September and the UK could be in EFTA by this Christmas. The Swiss have bi-lateral agreements, that took years to negotiate.
EFTA/EEA is the easiest.
This Tobin tax vote makes it easier during a referendum. The EU - accounts not signed off for 15 years - votes to increase taxes!
Regulations are a form of tax, so switching to EFTA by Christmas could also help with the recovery in other areas, i.e. a tax cut for businesses.

Herbert Thornton

So there is renewed speculation about a referendum. If Cameron does yet another flip-flop and promises a referendum, will he be any more committed to standing by it than he was the previous time?

The really terrifying thing is that some people will still be gullible enough to be taken in by it.

Big Johannes

Everytime I hear the undemocratic EU parliament mentioning what " European citizens expect,desire want "etc. it reminds me of what the German Constitutional Court said in it's ruling on the Lisbon treaty/constitution :

"After the realisation of the principle of the sovereignty of the people in Europe, only the peoples of the Member States can dispose of their respective constituent powers and of the sovereignty of the state. Without the expressly declared will of the peoples, the elected bodies are not competent to create a new subject of legitimisation, or to deligitimise the existing ones, in the constitutional areas of their states." (Par. 347)

If only Cameron could be bothered to read this ground-breaking judgement from "Little Deutschlanders" !