ECR’s record so far
Daniel Korski 10:31am
The decision by David Cameron to pull the Tories out of the EPP and form the ECR was a victory of principle and party politics over pragmatism. While many Tory grassroots howled with joy, it is worth examining the practical consequences on Tory influence in the European Parliament – not to reverse the decision, but validate or disprove the oft-made charge that the decision has made the Tories impotent.
Let us eschew any discussion about the views of key members of the ECR on Jews; let us also not dwell on whether the Tories have cut themselves off from other centre-right leaders. The first point is a matter of opinion and the second is uncontestable. Let us instead focus on how the ECR has done its work in the legislature.
Research shows that the ECR (alongside the Europe of Freedom and Democracy group) is the group that on average is least often on the winning side of a vote - although it does reasonably well on agriculture divisions. Interestingly, ECR is also doing well on environment issues. Conversely, ECR seems to be isolated on civil liberties issues. Now, being part of a wining coalition is not as important in the EP as it is the House of Commons. If the issue that “won” the vote is detrimental to Britain, then being on the “losing” side will be seen as right and proper.
One of the charges leveled against ECR is that the Tories have less in common with the other members than CCHQ likes to claim. There is a split between the Conservative Party and the Polish Prawo i Sprawiedliwo, which so far has been most visible on agriculture and the environment and less visible in other policy areas. But the EPP’s cohesion is also decreasing on agriculture and the environment. Several parties have separate opinions on agriculture, including the Hungarian Fidesz, the Portuguese Partido Social Democrata and the Austrian Österreichische Volkspartei. (Without the British and the Czech members, the EPP has been more pro-integrationist, less liberal market-oriented, and more likely to reach consensus on most issues).
ECR members attend plenary sessions less than any of the other larger groupings, which may or may not influence their impact depending on how important you see these. It did not prevent the party from halting the plan to extend maternity leave across Europe to 20 weeks on full pay – a move backed by the British Chambers of Commerce.
I am not a fan of the ECR and don’t think many of its continental members subscribe to an enlightened British brand of conservative thinking. Examples are not hard to find. Recently, a number of Law and Justice MPs tabled a parliamentary question demanding the establishment of a special department in the Polish Interior Ministry to “monitor homosexual websites” to prevent what MP Stanislaw Pieta has reportedly called “positive paedophilia”. A very unsavoury view, to say the least.
But many members of other party groupings also hold bigoted views and any judgment on the wisdom of forming the ECR should be made not only on these issues, but on the ECR’s ability to sway votes and push their issues. It is early days, it may not last and it will probably still make a Tory government’s role in Europe harder, but it does not look as bad as once predicted.
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Mark Demmen
March 16th, 2010 10:38am Report this commentWho cares? We're going to leave the EU in due course.
Vulture
March 16th, 2010 10:45am Report this commentWhat is 'unsavoury' about opposing paedophilia, pray?
What your lengthy post -( does no-one edit you? They are always way too long; mind you in your case two words are too long)- does not mention is that the EPP's fundamental aim is to set up an undemocratic federalist European superstate; which is wholly incompatible with the existence of Britain as a free and independent nation.
Withdrawal from the EPP was the one - the only one that I recall- indisputably correct
fulfilment of a promise made by Cameron. It was applauded by the majority of the party and the only objections came from paid-up lefties such as yourgoodself.
Rhoda Klapp
March 16th, 2010 10:51am Report this comment"Now, being part of a wining coalition is not as important in the EP as it is the House of Commons"
Whining, surely.
Peter From Maidstone
March 16th, 2010 10:54am Report this commentWhat a ridiculous socialist post. As if the only value of the Conservative MEPs is to be part of a vote winning bloc whatever the principles involved.
I would expect any bloc in which the Conservative party participated to lose most or all votes since the EU project is inimical to Conservative values.
When are we going to get some proper Conservative comment on Europe. It is gettign so that not only do I no longer enjoy reading the Magazine itself, but I can barely bring myself to read most of the blogs here. Is there no way of hiding the blogs and just reading the comments?
DavidDP
March 16th, 2010 11:41am Report this comment"What is 'unsavoury' about opposing paedophilia, pray?"
Are you thick?
John Moss
March 16th, 2010 11:42am Report this comment"It did not prevent the party from halting the plan to extend maternity leave across Europe to 20 weeks on full pay – a move backed by the British Chambers of Commerce."
One BIG win for business!
denis cooper
March 16th, 2010 11:52am Report this commentDaniel
Last Thursday you concluded an article with these words:
" Federalism is dead, pragmatism is in, and the Tory party looks set to capitalise."
and I offered the correction:
"Federalism is not dead".
How do I know that? Well, apart from other reasons because of this statement on the website of the European People's Party*:
http://www.epp.eu/hoofdpagina.php?hoofdmenuID=1
"The EPP is committed to a federal Europe".
Either the Tory party is adamantly opposed to a federal Europe, as it claims, or it is not; but if it is opposed then Tory MEPs can't sit in a group** which is committed to a federal Europe.
* Note the position of the apostrophe.
** Yes, I'm aware of the technical distinction between the EPP, and the EPP group in the EU Parliament:
http://www.eppgroup.eu/home/en/default.asp
but that makes no difference - the EPP group in the EU Parliament is a federalist group.
Sir Graphus
March 16th, 2010 11:57am Report this commentThe key policy is to oppose further integration, and hence the Tories could not remain part of the EPP. That would be a bigger scandal.
Vulture
March 16th, 2010 12:09pm Report this commentDavid Dp:
Sorry: ineptly phrased > I meant to complain that Korski seems to think that the Polish party's objections to paedophilia is 'unsavoury'.
Daniel Korski
March 16th, 2010 12:25pm Report this commentVulture
Let us be clear - paedophilia is abhorent. But it is generally held to be a dubious proposition that homosexuality and paedophilia are linked. While some paedophiles are homosexually orientated towards both adults and children, this does not in itself demonstrate a causal association between the two.
Daniel
djw2009
March 16th, 2010 12:29pm Report this commentThe Conservatives should not be a member of any grouping at Strasbourg. To take their seats in the European so-called Parliament is treason.
Verity
March 16th, 2010 1:12pm Report this commentdjw2009 - Well said, sir!
Verity
March 16th, 2010 2:11pm Report this commentPeter from Maidstone asks, "Is there no way of hiding the blogs and just reading the comments?"
That's what we have The Wall for! Cut out the middle man and go straight to the chase.
Peter From Maidstone
March 16th, 2010 2:12pm Report this commentDK, it seems to me, using an example that is current and has become public, that most of the acts of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church were perpetrated by homosexual men against male children. This does seem to me to suggest a causal association in many cases. There is also the record of lobbying by homosexuals to reduce the age of homosexual consent as low as possible.
Iconoclast
March 16th, 2010 2:55pm Report this commentThe difference between the EPP and the ECR is straightforward. The EPP consists of parliamentarians from Germany, France et al who are conservative in outlook but basically committed to the EU as a concept. The ECR is essentially a fringe group of little Polanders and cryto fascists who are going nowhere. Aligning ourselves with these weirdos was an act of staggering ineptitude that gains us no cred at home outside the BNP and has cut us off from mainstream conservatism in Europe. In itself it's not a big deal but an interesting pointer to just how destructive "Europe" is going to be as an issue if we return to power.
Vulture
March 16th, 2010 4:03pm Report this comment@Iconoclast:
Your nom de plume is strangely inappropriate. Since you are clearly along with Ken Clarke one of the few remaining worshippers at the altar of the EU inside the Tory party. There is nothing remotely conservative about the EPP and if that is your orientation, I suggest you apply to join the Liberal Democrats forthwith.
Norman Dee
March 16th, 2010 4:23pm Report this commentThat the other members of the ECR may not be ideal partners is true, but you have to start somewhere, after the election, when you are whining to Brown that you did your best, with the government of a leading member of the union in it the ECR may become a more popular place to be. Then when they have become more sizeable and powerful, they can weed out the less salubrious members. Much like most of us would like to see you and Hoskins weeded out.
Iconoclast
March 16th, 2010 7:42pm Report this commentVulture
March 16th, 2010 4:03pm
"There is nothing remotely conservative about the EPP"
.....I think this would be news to the EPP who are simply conservatives that support the EU concept just as the British conservative party used to and after all they took us in (1970's slogan:Conservatives-the party of Europe!). And my iconoclasm is aimed squarely at the widespread delusion among Conservative cannon fodder like yourself that any, repeat any, conservative party leadership is ever going to take the UK out of the EU or indeed seriously impede our further integration(the economic and diplomatic consequences would be dire) with predictable consequences for party unity.
Iconoclast
March 16th, 2010 7:48pm Report this commentNorman Dee
March 16th, 2010 4:23pm
"That the other members of the ECR may not be ideal partners is true,"
.......Melanie Klein and the ECR, strange bedfellows indeed and the product of intellectual incoherence
Kennybhoy
March 17th, 2010 6:10am Report this commentHaving in his earlier posts referred to the Consrvative Party as "ourselves" and "we",
Iconoclast then refers to Vulture as "Conservative cannon fodder"....?
Is this then how Europhile Conservatives regard ordinary Conservative voters and activists? Or are you a LibDem/NuLab troll? Or even Daniel Korski in disguise! LOL!
Vulture
March 17th, 2010 8:21am Report this comment@Iconoclast:
Here's a thought. In 1973, as you know, Britain joined the Common Market ( as it then was). In 1975 this was confirmed in a referendum.
35 years have passed since that watershed. In that time a whole generation has been born and grown up. Time enough, one would think for us to have bedded down, got used to being members of the club, and generally got on with the project of becoming good Europeans.
Why then is 'Europe' still an issue? Why is oppostion to our membership higher than it has ever been? Why is a political party whose sole rationale is our withdrawal able to win more votes in a national election than the ruling party?
Does it ever occur to you, in the deep watches of the night, that Britain does not 'fit' with the European Union? That membership is inimical to our history, national character, individualism, law, psyche, economy and international links?
That the EU itself has swelled into a bureaucratic, inorganic, corrupt monster resembling nothing so much as the old USSR - and similarly doomed.
As I say: Just a thought.
Iconoclast
March 17th, 2010 1:45pm Report this commentVulture:"Why is a political party whose sole rationale is our withdrawal able to win more votes in a national election than the ruling party?"
.......Withdrawal from the EU is official conservative party policy?....you really are deluded.....it's not of course because it would be suicidal diplomatically and economically, and would of course split the party asunder which is why it will continue to be an albatross as it was in the 80's/90's should the party return to office.....I have no strong feelings one way or the other....I'm just stating the reality whereas you alas are in dreamland.
Vulture
March 17th, 2010 2:40pm Report this comment@Ico:
Of course I meant UKIP in the European elections in June 2009 you dumbo!
Iconoclast
March 17th, 2010 2:56pm Report this commentVulture
March 17th, 2010 2:40pm
"Of course I meant UKIP in the European elections in June 2009 you dumbo!"
....Yes very impressive....And how many seats are they going to have in the new house?......the fact you regard UKIP as politically relevant tells me you are doomed to disappointment but who am I to stand in your way?
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