Age doesn't matter on Coffee House

Tankus

Mental age and physical age are not one and the same ....

Just look at the front bench !

Nash

Well done Fraser!

When the Guardian is but an historic footnote the Spectator will still be going strong for the reasons you stated.

paul holdstock

interesting article fraser,
i nearly missed it,
as it's past my bedtime.

Robert Gregory

Any attempt to stifle Taki will cost the Spectator this reader, although I'm the wrong side of 50, so I'm closer to Taki than any 'voi-ca-youff'.

I just wish dear old Jeffrey Bernard was still going. I miss Jeff !!

Joseph Alan Jones

You are quite right of course. Once one is past retirement age ones joints go and ones brain turns to mush. At 80 I find if I shake my head there is a slopping sound like cow shit in a bucket. It is lovely. Young people can get the same effect by taking booze and any drug off the street. Sniffing petrol solvent for a few hours each day is a good idea. The government is about to pass a law to encourage it.

Peter From Maidstone

What are the values of the Spectator? You don't cover most of the issues that concern most Conservatives. Many of your contributors would be happier on the New Statesman. And you break your promises about dealing with serious issues in a serious way, and you often display a corporate contempt for your readership. I am not sure what the values of the Spectator are anymore.

TomTom

Education being what The State has made it, only older generations can read, write and think. Anyway, the dead-tree media is dying as The Gray Lady can testify. It is the open source movement that sets the agenda, and the access to Pajamas Media and other Blogs that matters.

The TV News is Propaganda and the Dead-Tree Media peddles agreed lines, it is the Blogs that convey News and Opinion. The problems of this country were exacerbated by those born after 1950 - it seems that great acts were only possible for those born in the 1870s or 1890s.

The Media is dominated by children ignorant of their own history

heath j

As an old *** it is embarrassing to have to deal with incompetent young graduates on my projects. So let us laugh back at them.

Nicholas Hallam

I suspect that Guardian readers aren't as young as they think they are.

Chuck Unsworth

Well you're right. And I quite enjoy being an irascible old bastard. I was far too timid - and probably inept - when young. Now I have come to terms with my own weaknesses and am far less accepting of the failures of others.

Tiberius

... except, Fraser, maturity can only come with age.

I remember Auberon Waugh once wrote (and I paraphrase) that the young are hopeless at sex because they don't have experience and calm. Your Guardian audience would seem to bear that out.

Intelligence is age-blind, no doubt. But how you use it isn't.

Dorothy Wilson

Let's say we are mature. And horray for maturity! Just look at where "yuff" has got us.

Martin Denning

I gave up the Guardian when I grew up. At my age you'll take any stimulant that works - and that includes in my case, ink marks on "dead trees".

Marcovich

If you go to the National Gallery there is a famous painting of two French ambassadors (The Ambassadors) sent to the court of Henry VIII to negotiate. Important job when England was protestant and France catholic, during the Reformation. One was aged 24 and the other 28. Would it happen today? Labour people are still trying to prove that Cameron lacks experience at the age of 43. In an earlier century there was the Venetian leader Dandolo who was first on the battlements when Venice attacked Constantinople; he was aged 90 and blind. They were more civilised in those days.

Austin Barry

Occasional posts on the Coffee House do help pass the time as one waits for some vital organ to collapse.

Moraymint

Strangely, whilst it's difficult to tell the age of an androgynously named blog commentator from his/her post, it does seem possible to guess more accurately the gender of said poster.

Men and women do seem to shape prose differently. Or is just me (aged 52)?

strapworld

matron has just told me to hurry up and prepare for bed. Hot Horlicks and a couple of digestives will help the statins, metformins,aspirins,etodolac,omeprazole,
rampril, go down nicely. My memory is losing some of its touch. But I still try to keep my promises, Mr Nelson!!!!.

I enjoyed reading your report. It shows the 'mopdern' attitude of young people towards their elders. There is hardly no compassion left in our society.These soulless creatures Mr fraser was speaking to will one day reach the awful age of 40. They are condemning themselves to a very short active life followed by emptyness.No wonder David Cameron gives me the impression that he is one of them! Keeping dear old Ken Clarke as a museum object to be tolerated and smiled at!

One day all people reaching 69 will be taken to Butlins by the Sea for an enjoyable holiday. Ending with a lovely party with their family and then, in a torchlight ceremony, a hundred matrons will administer the happy pill, accompanied with a hot mug of Horlicks!

Goodbye dear world. Time for bed. I follow matron with a smile, knowing that the grey vote WILL VOTE and, thus, we cannot be ignored, just yet! As it happens, at this coming general election. The grey vote will be the deciding factor!

Cameron has forgotten that! Clegg has not.

Annabel Herriott

There can be a vast difference between ones chronological age, and ones biological age. So the next time you approach an old dear with a fag in her mouth, be careful as she may well be younger than you!!

John Smith

I'm probably the youngest here, only 19, reading Economics and Politics next year.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

As a person over seventy who has lived overseas for most of her life, and travelled extensively, I regret to say that the UK is one of the most ageist countries I've ever experienced. So much for the much quoted diversity. Under NuLabour, so much seems to be run by callow youth, callow mostly in years, but also in educstion and real life experience. Many women unfortunately seem to want to proclaim their independence by one-night stands and too much alcohol, then suddenly retresting into a stste of "invisibility" when their youth goes and they have nothing to offer. Thus I have coined the expression: "Until Forty Whores, After Forty Grey Haired Bores." I cannot see any Spectator readers or CH fans in thsi wretched condition.

Neil Turner

Neil Turner Age 50

Nick

I've read pretty much every issue of the Spectator for the last twenty-five years.

No doubt about it the Speccy was at its best under Charles Moore.

The last two years have been dreadful. Dull columnists, C-list celebrity diarists (Joan Collins, David Tang), and too much "lifestyle" content.

On the other hand the last couple of years have seen the introduction of CoffeeHouse which is quite superb.

Noa Zrk

Shame on you Fraser! No mention of key people, keen wits and original thinkers like Vulture, Nicholas, Moraymint or Verity to name but a few...nor Neather neither.

Beer Moth

But age should matter.

The perspective gained through many years of experience, should be prized as a vital resource.

No passport to unquestioned seniority, certainly; but we have, to our detriment, come to occupy the other pole. We view those over, say 46, as superfluous in the work environment.

I don't know what has caused this wasteful drift, but it is now long established. One of the first warning signs was the cull of avuncular TV presenters with all their richness, to make way for successive splashes of trendiness.

One minute we were being minded - looked after by 'Blue Peter' and then that corkscrew-haired weed and his 'Magpie' crew were upon us and it all span to ratshit. The BBC were then moved to put Peter Purviss in, with his hipsters and his feather-cut, and our present seal was set.

My being 53 has nothing whatever to do with this theory. My youthful years were every bit as jaundiced.

Inkerman

Read this thought - I'm not in that age bracket - then remembered that I am...

Heh ho - once a yoof alwways a yoof

Victor Southern

At 75 I can claim to have learned a lot and not yet forgotten all the bits that are worth knowing. I can now cheerfully say that at age 30 and already a senior manager I was a stupid young fellow.

However, I will bear strapworld's prophecy in mind and refuse to break my lifelong vow never to go to Butlins. Besides, I hate Horlicks.

heath j

I class 50 year olds as young. Compliments to your splendid bloggers. Even those under 55.

chris as usual

When you get 'old', you know that most of the things that are wrong in politics and their consequences are not going to be put right in your lifetime. However, the effect of this, with the benefit of maturity, is to have a clear priority list of the things that really matter. Unfortunately, these are things which most politicians do not appear to wish to have anything to do with - they are about honesty, trust, loyalty and suchlike.

Let us hope, however, that Cameron has the sense to project these values in the coming campaign, rather than lurching to what some see as so called Conservative principles, which however well intentioned, will only serve to turn off the average uncommited voter.

steve

Age 46 and 2/3rds (its understanding fractions that makes us different)

Nicholas

I don't know - you young tearaways. And here was I thinking you were all venerable ancients.

Marcovich makes an interesting point which I think has something to do with the divorce of age and responsibility - and the connected confusion of responsibility with power. Society has become more polarised into those with power but no accountability and those who are accountable but have no power.

I also agree with Anne WK1 that this country is horribly ageist.

wrinkled weasel

Crikey! Compared to some of the regulars, I'm an embryo! Whoopee! Too many exclamation marks!
Not as Wrinkled as some, eh Anne Wotana Kaye? I would never have known.

Wrinkled Weasel is 56. Going on 12.

2trueblue

Definitely agree with most above. The grey vote is very powerful and we deserve a good result. We have contributed in more ways than others to this country and are being shafted by this government who think that we are not worth the fruit of our labours. We have mostly paid our way and are refused the dignity of proper medical care because we are old.

AdamR

@John Smith - No, wouldn't say you're the youngest on here, as I am also 19. I'm also fairly sure there are some younger than us who post occasionally. Still, nice to know there are some other people of my own age group on here, as well as the older posters.

Steve Tierney

Forty One. I'd thought of myself as still quite young until you started talking about "twenty somethings" being the future. Unless we drop dead every one of us is the future, aren't we?

JohnAnt

Fraser, the London media-crisy is almost entirely under 35. And if you walk through the West End, you'll scarcely see anyone in work who's over 45.
The middle-aged have been pushed out of employment and airbrushed out of the picture. How many
Hardly surprising the mere mention of 'aged 50' raises a titter among the audience.
How many 50+ year olds are there working at the Speccie, I wonder.

Wilhelm

Fraser

If age doesnt matter.
Then why did you spend writing a 500 word comment on it ?

Its a bit Irish.

Roue le Jour

I agree with Anne Wotana Kaye 1, the UK is horribly ageist. However, there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. The UK is a very old country, average age is what, 44? Here in Thailand the average age is 24. It is much easier to be respectful to old gits when you hardly ever meet one. The flip side of the coin is that the UK is obsessed with the scarce young, whereas here we're up to our armpits in smiling little faces and nobody gives a jot about them.

Rupert Daley, aged 58 and one half.

Craig Strachan

Why don't we run a pool on TGIP UKIP's age?

Mark

Many of those involved in digital publishing are obsessed with appealing to the young and trendy. I am not quite sure why, as 20somethings generally do not have the cash of 50somethings and therefore are not as good a prospect. The publishing company I used to work for is obsessed with online delivery and appealing to a wider audience, even though its products - B2B magazines - are by definition specialist and tools of the trade, not fashion accessories. Unsurprisingly they are failing to attract new readers and are alienating the old ones, who seem to persist in their old-fashioned desire for good content.
I started reading the Speccie aged 16 btw...

TomTom

Well Mark, the BBC seems obsessed with those too young to pay the TV Licence Tax.....I simply wish I was too old to have to pay this obscene levy

Nimble

I stumbled here a couple of years back when the magnificent Mz Phillips jumped on board, became a daily online reader, and pick up the "real" version pretty much every issue. The wines good too ! Hit the sad age of 35 last week ;(

Andre

Fraser - I was alarmed by your relative youthfulness when I happened upon you broadcasting on a live television station. Nevertheless I am still gamely taking your opinions seriously, dear boy.

Rhoda Klapp

Well, I'm just the right age. Anybody younger than me just has not got the experience of life and perspective of history to be considered grown up. Anybody older is just a fogey, set in the rut of a too-prolonged existence.

Funnily enough, I have always been just the right age.

Nicodemus

41 3/4, but reading for 10 years! I'm sure the Guardianistas would kill for a readership as wide and diverse as us lot.

Alfred T Mahan

Well, yes, Markovich, but where is Dandolo buried? Yup, Hagia Sophia. So perhaps being first on the battlements wasn't the best idea...

North Bury

Fact is that it's the over 50s who are paying for everything in this country. The youf are all unemployed, in debt or both.

echo34

42 and counting..

I find i have issues with the 20 somethings these days in that, through no fault of their own, they were 10 ,11 or early teens the last time a tory government was in power. When i opine that things weren't so bad in politics then, i get the default comment that "their all the same!". Now unless they had an unusually worldly view of politics in their early secondary school years, i find their opinions can only have come from experience of one party in power.

We old gits will never stop grumbling, its our senior years hobby, but i for one believe i'll never stop learning from others on here regardless of their age.

Dorothy Wilson

Tiberius: Perhaps you need some years under your belt before you can become mature. But some people have the years without the maturity.

Brown for example.

Lord Monkington-Smythe

Here was me thinking that everyone was just bored at work.

oldtimer

Pensioners have more time to swan around the internet visiting sites like this. They are also more likely to vote at elections. The last ICM poll revealed that 70% of those in the 65+ age bracket said they were certain to vote in the next general election. It was 24% in the 18-24 age group. So age does matter. The Spectator/CoffeeHouse readership will have the last laugh.

Martyn Rowe

I'm 32, and in awe at the experience, maturity and wisdom of my fellow bloggers... :)

Martyn Rowe

Fellow "commenters" I meant. Doh.

Alex

"Finally, young people, under 22, have acquired a habit of not buying any media at all. Even going to the cinema, or spending cash on iTunes, is seen as retro to a certain age group."

And that Fraser is something that'll have to be dealt with by a new government. On the one hand we talk up the creative industries in the UK and the jobs and revenue they provide. On the other hand, mass online piracy is sapping revenues from those industries. How can a free market operate without the rule of law? Too big a topic for this post, but I am sure one all film, music, magazine, newspaper and tv companies must be pondering!

Glen Green

Never a truer word spoken (written!).

My wife and I are 23 years older then our son, yet his right-wing views make us look like a Guardian readers. Our eldest daughter is so left of field as to make us look like Ghengis Khan.
Our youngest reads more then the rest of us put together, and has no time for the internet whilst our eldest is never off the internet and only reads Jeremey Clarkson books. I think the most level headed one in our family is Lola, and she's a parrot.

Greenslime

How do you know when a plane full of Spectator Bloggers has arrived at an airport?

Because it continues to whine even after the engines have been turned off!

Verity

Like my fellow posters here, I've always been perfectly content with the age I was at any particular moment.

Unlike some, I never went through a lefty phase. I've remained steadily on the right since I was little. When I was in my teens and twenties, it didn't escape my notice that young women on the left seldom wore make-up, which I thought was very unwise.

djw2009

>>>The Spectator's pitch is to a set of values: quality of writing, elegance of thought, independence of opinion.

Those values were comprehensively rejected by the Spectator during Matthew d'Ancona's reign. You still have more to do, Fraser, to show that you are re-embracing them.

Alexandrovich

I'd just like to say that...hang on, it'll come. Oh! that was it...about the er, ongoing problem in...

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

Verity: I found your last posting of personal interest since my political opinions were also formed at a very early age, and unlike many of my contemporaries I never went through a Bolshie stage. Like you, Verity, I was very aware of the appearance of other girls, and found that the more left their views the uglier they were and the more in need of shaving their armpits and legs were. In those distant days, the expression which fitted the male lefties was "drips" and they usually wore trousers which bagged at the knees and sandals with, socks. Ugh!

Hysteria

always of right-ish views - but increasingly becoming libertarian in outlook. With occasional bouts of Genghis Khan thrown in when something really pisses me off.

54 and 11/12ths

Big Breaths

Yeth and I'm only thixteen.

anne allan

Nobody who has even a passing acquaintance with twentieth century history could possibly have a left wing 'compassionate' phase of life. All left wing regimes have lead to wholesale death and suppression of the populace.
Socialists have a skewed view of human nature, and when human beings refuse to conform to these ideals, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Kims etc... become inevitable.
I could see that in my teens and so have always been a conservative because I believe people are best left in charge of their own lives.

anne allan

Big Breaths - have you given away your age? That line came from Doctor in the House; both book and film date from the mid 1950s. Or shall I be charitable and assume you've watched it on DVD?

AngloWelshDragon

I am 40 so according to Anne WK1, on the cusp of Whore and Bore!

Noa Zrk

"Because intellect and wit doesn't age".

Fortunately though, it does continue to mature.

Anne Wotana Kaye 1

AngloWelsh Dragon: By your postings you are neither a whore nor a bore. You may be a dragon on a cusp.