Ed Miliband's new investment vs cuts battleground

TrevorsDen

So Labours answer to the huge deficit is to spend more? Does anybody believe that?
It seems Darlings idea of paying off the deficit is to take a smaller deficit than expected and spend the difference - thus making the deficit as big as expected. Huh? Oh I forgot, this is socialism.

School meals? Didn't Jamie Oliver campaign against chicken nuggets or something - to zero effect? Nutrition? Who does Milliband think he is kidding? ... Oh I see.

Simon Stephenson

"I guess that, in a roundabout way, there's something in what Miliband's saying. Yes, it would be nice if everyone felt the benefit of the welfare state. And, yes, the public might feel kinder towards a system if they feel they're getting something out of it. Indeed, all of the stuff he mentions above would, I am sure, appeal to parents across the country."

Well I'm afraid then, Peter, you must be a Socialist at heart. What non-Socialists want to "get out of" the system is an humane safety-net for the unfortunates in society who are unable to keep up with broad masses, together with centralised provision in those areas sucn as defence and law and order where it can clearly be demonstrated that central provision is the best option. And, of the highest priority, that the expectation of those involved in state provision should be an administration that prides itself on its utmost effectiveness and cost-efficiency.

John Bracewell

....it's the public's money that we're talking about here: in some cases, you don't need to take it, only to give it back, when you can simply not take in the first place.
Now come on, Peter, you really haven't caught on to the Labour tax ideas. If you don't take in the first place, how can you divert £4 billion for 'modernisation' of the trade union Unite (which you hope to get back) and other such simple wheezes. Labour taxing policy is all about 'get the money in, anyway you can' then the Labour government is in charge of what money can be given and to whom. How else do you get dependent people to vote for you - like all the extra benefit claimants, the extra public service people recruited recently and the immigrant masses which Labour have brought in to the country. The simple rule is: Labour tax first, disperse later less any waste incurred.

Roger Daley

Free school meals for all equals more jobs for dinner ladies on minimum wage.

Pete Hoskin

Simon Stephenson: erm, I do slightly mitigate that passage in what follows. And I was being rather tongue-in-cheek (maybe I should have italicised "nice") - but guess that's not clear enough.

Pete Hoskin

Simon Stephenson: I've slightly changed the text above, so hopefully it's a bit clearer.

perdix

Liebour wants to tax everyone to provide universal benefits so that you will feel grateful to the government and vote for them.They hope that you will forget that it was your money.

pete-s

A bank based around the Post Office; it was called the GIRO bank and started in the 60's. British Labours primary failing is moderation. Some people need help, but too much and it will be taken advantage of. A lot of Europe's gov are socialist or socialist leaning, few come to our levels of support. Too much support/ state intervention does not work. If it did then all communist states would be the template for gov, Well history has shown that is not true.

Boudicca

Votes at 16 eh? Would that be because younger people tend to be more susceptible to the idea of spending other peoples' money (ie their parents') at that age.

The education-leaving age is to be raised to 18. Presumably that's because Labour thinks that 16-yr-olds need to continue being educated to 18, when they officially become adults. Hardly squares with the idea that they are old enough and responsible to vote on matters which don't affect them.

A nice try at gerry-mandering the electoral system towards Labour even more than it currently is.

Joesph Alan Jones

Liebour is giving school meals to all children? Who would have thought that schooling and education was to equip the young for adult life? So liebour with its vast wealth is going to feed them as well. Queue up kids for the Labour soup kitchen!!

TGF UKIP

Very shrewd and sensible of Minor and Labour, knowing they can count on the instinctive social democracy and spinelessness of Calamity Cameron & Co not to stand up for and present the argument smaller government and a minimum safety net.

Liz Brown

Where is millipede minor thinking of having these banks? In the Post Offices that Liebour have closed?

Tiberius

Universal free school meals would force the government to find another way to allocate funding.

A school's free school meal numbers has been the basis since the 1960s, and results in funding discrimination against schools in affluent areas. Perhaps it is this that Ed wants to put an end to.

Nicholas

"But the danger with Miliband's prospectus is that it does seem to disregard two important issues. First, the state of the public finances. With the debt burden as it is, it is simply irresponsible not to prioritise public spending in some way - and prioritising it in favour of the people who need it most seems like a decent solution to me."

You have couched this rebuttal in "soft" terms again, letting them off the hook. What you mean is Milliband can't afford it. The dividing line is a deluded socialist position that thinks money grows on trees and that it can be thrown willy nilly at those who don't need it as well as the poorest. We have just had 13 years of that and look where it has got us. Why do you let New Labour play these stupid games of trying to airbrush out their 13 years record and making you think they are somehow "fresh and untainted" in their manifesto?

Apart from the obvious question the money hurling strategy is unsustainable in the long term without a very, very wealthy economy. Last time I looked it was more likely Britain would be travelling in the opposite direction.

This sounds like what it is. An attempt to bribe the middle classes to vote New Labour again, based on promises they won't be able to keep and a blind eye to their record in government.

There is also a paradox. Katwala's article is typical of muddled and contradictory thinking. An all inclusive welfare state? Where do you draw the line? Who gets and who gets it taken away? An arbitrary income line, Brown's complex and convaluted clawback systems? Where does the 50p tax and ire over Ashcroft fit into this "all inclusive welfare state"?

It is nonsense on so many levels. It requires derision and scorn not polite rebuttal.

kevin atkinson

Would Milliboy be old enough to vote?

Irene

Don't we already have two People's banks?

John Moss

The idiocy of the plan to reduce the voting age is exposed by it's contradiction by the plan to increase the school leaving age.

On one hand you are too young to make your own way in life, but, on the other, you can vote on who runs the country.

Bonkers!

Frank P

People's Bank? More like a Westminster people's wank.

Can none of you raise a post on the impending disaster States-side? Or are you all living under the delusion that it is nowt t'do wi' us. Or worse still, do you approve of the POTUS putting the first footings of the Totalitarian State into position on Sunday?

David Ossitt

“Miliband says.'I think a lot of people would like free school meals”

No they bloody well wouldn’t; and, he does not really mean a lot of people or even a lot of children, this loony nasal speaking communist youth, is actually talking about possible labour voters.

David Ossitt

Peter Hoskin.

“I guess that, crudely speaking, there's something in what Miliband's saying. Yes, it might be *nice* if everyone felt the benefit of the welfare state.”

No Peter we want less of a welfare state, not more; it is the welfare state that has turned millions into long term dependants; in effect it keeps them as life long children who have to suckle at the tit of state for lifelong sustenance.

David Ossitt

“a reduction in the voting age to 16”

Never mind giving more people the vote; (the 16 year olds) what we need are less voters, no one who is on long term benefit (a year or over) should have the vote nor their non working wives as they do not pay tax.

I would also question immigrants having the vote.

Noa Zrk

I would encourage both of the Millibands to acquaint themselves with the Jobseekers Allowance scheme.

Like several million other public sector employees they will need to seek gainful and productive employment off the public teat.

General Zod

!6 years olds to be given the vote -why?

Because their NUT/NAS/UWT teachers will coach them to vote Labour.

Marcher Baron

As a pensioner with no children, I certainly do NOT like the idea of "free" (ie taxpayer funded) school meals for all. My pension's taxed - I'd like the taxes to go on something worthwhile, not further State interference. The welfare state ought to be pared right down to a simple safety net, not expanded into a feather bed. As for 16 year olds getting the vote - what do they know? The only glimmer of hope is that Labour's manifesto promises are not worth the paper they're written on - Gordon went to court to establish that principle.

Tim W

This is proper socialist stuff. And is not the way I want to go as it may surprise you. I doubt many other coffee housers will like it either.

And what is wrong with a lunch box? How hard can it be to make a quick sandwich with some lettuce in, some fruit etc.? My parents never had a problem with it. Only the poorest need free school meals.

Dorothy Wilson

And, meanwhile, the country would be helter-skeltering on the fast track to bankruptcy.

As far as the voting age is concerned, I would put it up to at least 25. From a fair degree of experience of working with young adults I would suggest that they seem to start to move towards maturity somewhere between 24 and 36.

Frank Leader

Ed Miliband's father was a Marxist Lecturer at the LSE. His grandfather was mixed up with the Bolsheviks in Russia, this group was involved with the assassination of the Tsar. They were also involved in exterminating the White Russians.
With an impeccable background such as this both he and his brother David (Foreign Secretary) are true members of New Labour.

Sarah

In relation to lowering the voting age to 16, do you think he came up with the idea after readihttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8519915.stmng this?

HFC

David Ossitt @ 3:55pm

Never mind giving more people the vote; (the 16 year olds) what we need are less voters, no one who is on long term benefit (a year or over) should have the vote nor their non working wives as they do not pay tax.

I would also question immigrants having the vote.

Quite so.

Votes should be for those who have completed their education and contribute to the nation's wealth.

If education is to be continued to 18yrs, no voter should be less than that age. Those who choose to go into tertiary education will defer their eligibility to vote until they have graduated.

None should be entitled to vote (i.e. be represented in parliament) until they pay direct taxes on income.

Benefit dependents should have no vote; neither should immigrants until they have learned to read and write English and obtained full-time employment.

Sir Everard Digby

Of course,he forgets the mass closures of post office branches which somewhat dismantle the ability to deliver the commitment.The usual bovine scatology

Jane

There's no such thing as a free lunch!

Michael Booth

Free school meals ? Oh for God's sake! Eye catching? Have you seen Ed Miliband's eyes? They swivel in a mad professorish sort of way! This is just...absurd!!!!!!!

Noa Zrk

HFC

Benefit dependents should have no vote; neither should immigrants until they have learned to read and write English and obtained full-time employment.

No, immigrants should certainly not have a vote. Only citizens. But as you get UK citizenship for the asking, there's a need to review and revoke where necessary existing awards to persons who offer no tangible benefit value to this country.
British citizenship should be provisional and conditional upon exemplary service and behaviour.

I'm also of the view that exemplary contribution or behaviour should earn additional personal votes.

Togram

Ed must have forgotten the mass closures of Post Offices! As for the people's bank I thought RBS had the people's money or am I mistaken!