Hope springs eternal

Verity

Well, the Americans put a fast stopper on Obama's "citizens' army" of community organisers (why would a community of any kind need an organiser? If it's already a community, it's already organisesd, organically. But naturally, Dave loves it because it just sounds so ... well, Obama-ish. Content free.) But the Americans picked up on the authoritarian undertones to this little idea and put a quick end to it.

Dave, the East Germans had community organisers. They were called the Stazi.

If you don't have anything other than cast-offs (pre-shredded by the American voters) from your hero Obama to offer, Why don't you spend one day without opening your mouth which Vulture claims, I am sure on good evidence, looks like a hen's arse?

"Community organisers" is a fascist idea. Why does a community - community being a bunch of people who are associating with one another freely, without central direction from the state, need an organiser when the word "communitiy" tells you that this group of people is already organised? Why are you so stupid? And so facile?

I used to think you were patronising and dismissive and had low regard for the intelligence of the voters, but now I realise that you have actually bought into all these outmoded communist ideas and think dressing them up with a pregnant wife will make people feel soft, fuzzy and welcoming.

Not in a hundred years, Dave. Count me out.

JohnPage

Voluntary national service? Tripe. Let the sun shine out ....

Hawkeye

Nothing motivates like self interest. If you want young people to "do" citizen service then operate a scheme like in the US where those who perform military service can get a help with university fees.

What about "Do a year of citizen service and we'll pay £3500 towards your student fees". Or NVQ or apprenticeship costs, or a certification to help get an employer to consider you for a job.

Dave B

It's possible I've misunderstood something, but everything I've read about this 'National Citizen Service' makes it sound like the Duke of Edinburgh Award, but run by Whitehall.

http://www.dofe.org/

I thought that the Conservatives wanted to strengthen non-government institutions, so I find this apparent state takeover odd, and unwelcome.

Joe

What has this opposition been doing all this time? They create a "broken Britain" narrative and then the best they can come up with is Scout camps for truculent 16 year olds. Surely the conservative narrative is that government should never interfere in those areas of life that people can arrange themselves. If we want to volunteer, than volunteer we will, but it won't be under the prompting of a nagging Prime Minister.

The Conservatives are creating a problem for themselves. In a desperate attempt to look busy and fresh, they are going to deluge us with one scheme after another. No doubt they sound harmless and jolly, but all will beg the funding question, and all risk accusations of Nanny Statism.

Policies like this also look worryingly like a reprise of Major's warm beer and cricket on the village green theme.

Tim W

I agree totally that this is "very Cameron."

But whilst it is a worthy idea, elections are won and lost on the big issues which people are talking about. Nobody on the street will tell you they are talking about the Big Society, National Citizens Service, etc. They will say they want to know the parties' policies on the Economy, Healthcare, Education, Defence.

The reason the poll lead waned in January was because Cameron was unveiling daily policies on things like, "War Cabinets". Voters aren't interested in these things. By all means do them in government but they don't win you elections.

Verity

Surely the conservative narrative is that government should never interfere in those areas of life that people can arrange themselves.

Well said, Joe!

Naomi Muse

Voluntary doesn't equal national service.

Engendering a sense of community is a different thing and won't be organised or instilled by community organisations.

Sounds good but is a no,no.

Community is effected by attitude, attitude determines how you act and react. Quite a lot of work to do then, but not pushed by centralist dictats.

Ron Todd

The best line to take might be.

Is it not better to leave the money in the wealth creating part of the economy where it can be used to create jobs, rather than mover it to the non productive part of the economy where the governments ability to spend wisly has been shown to be rather poor.

John Woolman

it sounds like being sent to an Open Prison without the benefit of a trial.

This isn't the sort of idea that makes me happier about voting Conservative.

jaybs

We are being attacked on both sides by Broon and Clegg and we totally waste a press conference on such a weak subject! yes it may appeal to a select few but it is not what people are talking about on the steps!

Fergus Pickering

The point about this is that it is not meant to enthuse you lot, who will vote Tory anyway, exdcept Verity who is mad as the mist and snow. The people Cameron is after are people who previously voted Labour or didn't vote at all. Different animals. Will they like this? I think they like Michael Caine. Dammit, I like Michael Caine.

Verity

Tim writes re community organisers: "But whilst it is a worthy idea ...".

No, Tim. It is not a worthy idea, except insofar it is worthy of Mao or Stalin. It's a horrible, nightmareish idea.

Communities organise themselves organically, just by existing and evolving and having loose, amiable arrangements with their neighbours.

Cannot you see that this is a horrible, socialist idea? The idea is to get people reporting on each other and reprimanding people who tell them to bugger off.

Britain did just fine in evolving over 2,000 years to one of the most sophisticated and desirable societies in the history of the world. All without "community organisers". Dear God!

Tanuki

This "National citizen's service" thing is appalling. It just shows how much Cameron has swallowed the communitarian pills. It smacks of a 'big paternalist government' and I want nothing of it - indeed when it comes to recruiting future staffers I'll look negatively upon anyone who admits on their CV to having been duped into participating in such nonsense.

TGF UKIP

As the Speccie's arch Camerloon, James, we know you feel obligated to try to sell all the Mekon's daft ideas but I have to tell you, it is doing absolutely nowt for your credibility.

Indeed, when you say "National Citizen Service is very Cameron" you are of course quite correct just as "The Big Society", which you and your comrades have also waxed lyrical about, is very Dave/Mekon. Trouble is, though, that all these daft wheezes do, is feed the notion of Dave as being nowt more than PR spin.

National Citizen Service and The Big Society are exactly the sort of New Labour phrases which the Original specialized in and Joe Voter is now completely cynical about, so it profiteth the Heir precisely nowt to trot them out and I expect Mandelson to be turning his guns on PR man Dave any day now.

Quite apart from which in an economy election Labour will be fully justified in asking how much and where from. My very quick calculation got the community organizers at a very bare minimum of half a billion pa and Whitehall never ever works on bare minimums Dave or no Dave.

Additionally Verity and Joe are dead right and the last thing Brits are likely to want is another set of do-gooding busybodies manipulating them and pushing them about. The whole thing, though, does say a lot about the quintessentially left wing mind set that Cameron has.

Richard

Poor old Tebbit must be chewing on his bindings by now. What next? Uniforms with matchstick men logo's and the words Cameron youths under it. Perhaps they should be called the sky blue shirts.

Barbara

Living in the UK's second city, this would not be welcomed at all, he's aiming at those who are considared not 'in society', who are probably not educated to well, and unemployable. Does he really think they would come forward to work for nothing? I don't think so, in Thatcher's government they introduced the youth training scheme, for then £27 per week for a 40 hour week, not to good and this smells of the same, no, the young will want something more positive than what Dave's suggesting, and with a reasonable wage attached to it for it to make an impression. For me it sounds like a scheme to control the wayward youth of today, but they have to be interested and community ideas won't wash at all. Sounds great, but in practice probably unatainable, for you need the youth to be engaged and have incentive, to get most of them out of their beds each morning will be the first task! Cameron should be concentrating on more serious things like getting them educated, apprenticeships, and jobs, that might just work, that or no benefits.

Michael Booth

Communities do not need organising, they need minimal interference from central government - as do individuals. Government is - or should be - the servant of the people not the other way around, though Brown's Freudian slip on the steps of Number 10 the other day said it all about how Labour regard the British people. Under Ed Balls, schools are charged with 'promoting community cohesion' and will fail inspection unless they can demonstrate they are doing this - it's total bollocks.

Michael Booth

Back in 1945 Churchill lost the elction because his warnings about a socialist Gestapo were thought crude and over the top. Well, let's be honest, he was spot on in the long term, wasn't he?

Ruby Duck

Could work - open software projects attract thousands of voluntary contributors because it is a way of gaining experience and getting a paid job.
The PC-speak is scary, but maybe that'll be dropped after the election ...

Vulture

In previous elections Tories always promised beefed up boot camps and then did nothing in office. This is the same sort of empty waffle that sounds good but is actually quite sinister if you examine it closely. (As Verity says, it is warmed up Marxism borrowed from Saul Alinsky/Gramsci and re-heated by horrible Hungarian Steve Hilton and the ludicrous Oliver "Are you a burglar? Then please use my loo" Leftwing.)

But we don't need to examine it since it ain't gonna happen.

I'm with Hawkeye: let's folow the US and put kids through education in return for a stint in the armed forces. Which, by the way, should be withdrawn from Afghanistan right now and re-deployed here at home. Karzai is a treacherous Taliban in a funny hat and coat and our boys are dying daily to prop this clown in power.