Tory manifesto launch - live blog

Dan Grover

What happened to The Killers?! Don't get me wrong, I love Bowie as much as the next man, but come on, maybe he should have a bit more Amy Winehouse on his iPod?

Dan Grover

Gove appears to be having a great time! Look at him laughing, joking around!

Justicia

My god they need Cameron. The Tory cabinet are, Hague aside, so nauseatingly boring and bad at presentation. Anyone tuning into this by chance will be turned off pretty sharpish by listening to them stumble through wooden speeches.

Justicia

Love how the PEB from Labour had the 3rd Doctor's son and the 10th Doctor narrating, whilst today the Tories are launching from where the Cybermen launched their invasion of the world.

Justicia

Pretty poor effort on the part of the BBC for not doing them the courtesy of showing their videos. I'll bet the TOries will be furious as the videos online look like they might resonate with voters.

Justicia

LOL at Warsi: You were the first to order MPs to payback because you were the first to be caught out!

Richard of York

Here we go....launched in a building the symbol of tory failure right back to Thatcher...knocked down by MacAlpine former tory treasurer....passed from one non dom to another at a loss...hollow shell ....only ever been used to produce hot air....now full of rats and vermine.
Who chose BPS?
You will be on your own the state will roll back, still take your money, then dump you at the side of the road.
See the Ompah Lumpah filling in with her spin....what happened to reporting the facts?
Scarey!.....this will put more people off than it will win over.

AndyinBrum

Justica- compared to the actual cabinet, I'd take the shadow cabinet over all of them

Justicia

@AndyinBrum: I'm sure you would, but that's not the point. The point is they sounded absolutely terrible, and presentation matters.

Justicia

Cameron: Send this manifesto to at least 20 friends before midnight or you'll wake up in a Greek Economic Disaster!

Dan Grover

I think Gove is pretty good, though the others were boring, true.

2 minutes after taking the stage, Cameron gets the first laugh of the day. That's probably a good thing!

HASurvivor

"...songs with the word 'change' in them...". So the Who's "Won't get fooled again" is in there is it? "The change it had to come, we knew it all along". Mind you "Meet the new boss - same as the old boss" might not go down too well. Unless they can make it imply that Cameron's like the divine Maggie. Might be a tough ask, that one.

strapworld

It was ridiculous to see Cameron and his wife met by a gang of young kids, the majority if not all below voting age. Then to see them take seats in the old boiler house. Not many elderly people. Ignoring the fact that older people are the ones most likely to vote and most likely to vote Conservative.

That Cameron is still wedded to Green issues, still promising to keep the NHS Budget in spite of the evidence that throwing money at it has not done much,, other than to inflate pen pusher's wages!
Still promising to ensure the private bank accounts of Third World ''leaders''are increasing! that the EU will flourish under Cameron. One cannot support such a weak and uninspiring 'invitation to join the government of the UK'

A weak uninspiring team. A weak and uninspiring leader! Is it any wonder that Cameron is just 5 points ahead of the most discredited Prime Minister in modern british political history is testimony itself that Cameron is yet another false prophet.

Immigration? What about Peterborough and the letter he received? Is he going there?
What about Neather and ImmigrationWatch?

We are being sold a pup and Cameron is a dud. Here in Australia they have three year parliaments. They have to vote. Perhaps we should have the same so we the people do not have to suffer bad governments for so long!

When I return the election will be over and I will not be in the least surprised if Brown is still in power. If that be the case then I sincerely hope the tories actually elect a true tory and a true leader, man or woman, black, brown, hetrosexual or homosexual or even elderly white! Britain will need a real leader.

This manifesto launch was the answer to insomniacs!

AAE

Can someone at The Speccie satisfy my inner Kremlinologist and tell me if, when he uses the word progressive, Cameron means the same as Brown?

Justicia

@strapworld:

Its not because he's missing the issues that they're on slightly ahead. I'm convinced its because the majority of the electorate have a near pathological dislike of the Tories, and will them at every turn to give them a reason not to vote for them. The tories don't just have to convince the electorate that they're ready for government, they also have to overcome an automatic prejudice against them, which in the past few weeks they have consistently failed to do.

People still think the Tories are the nasty party (or at least are prone to lapse back into it).

Justicia

Cameron: Everything in the manifesto is costed.

What a great big lie. No one is going to believe that, even if it were true, after being attacked for a week over VAT.

Richard of York

Just look at the women behind cameron on the stage...everyone a ball breaker with all the charm and allure of a feather duvet a baby has just crapped on.....eeek!
Career politicians, hard as nails....compasionate conservatives they are NOT.

Justicia

One MASSIVE entertainment plus over yesterday: Watching the people behind Cameron react to probing questions. See them scowl!

Richard of York

Last time Battersea saw that much hot air it was suppling the national grid.

How can a man say so much without saying anything.....oh and now he is the new Kennedy "ask not what your country...etc"
Vomit bucket already full....nurse!!!!

AndyinBrum

Richard you have Harmen as deputy labour leader, stop grasping at straws

Justicia

What an utter moron. If the fool had the faintest idea of how complicated and convoluted our criminal legal system has become he wouldn't dare suggest cutting legal aid.

AndyinBrum

Labours already cutting legal aid & cameron's saying only Mp's won't get it

Richard of York

Justicia.....you are right look at the faces they are scared stiff....blimey I think one is about to cry! They look like a hanging jury.

AndyinBrum

Christ on an electric bike ~ justica, Richard, your agrumants are pathetic. Go away & ask Derek for some new ones

Richard of York

The answers are longer than the speeches... blimey they are rattled already.
Oh and anyone heard and answer to a question yet ...its all about I Think. we feel etc

Stevie

What a breath of fresh air compared to the dross from Labour. Change, REAL change, the very thing that Brown the control freak hates most.

Richard of York

Cameron and the tories voted against means tested legal aid......what is he on planet Zog?

toni

AndyinBrum.
The same Harman who yesterday evening on the Campaign programme stood her ground and with good humour gave as good as got to your Editor Fraser Nelson and Andrew Rawnsley? And judging by the look on their faces they didn't like it up 'em!

mike

Recent poll conducted outside our local Co-op showed most folk thought Gordon would win, and that the two for the price of one special on oven ready chips represented excellent value for money.

Justicia

Have I missed something? Did Osbourne address the Green tax issue or not? I appreciate the Tories have dropped it as an issue, but its bad form of Dave to say he'll address it then forget it.

The Bellman

@toni: If that was Harman 'holding her own' last night, I'd hate to see her dropping her own. (On many levels.) The hapless old dear still doesn't understand the difference between debt and deficit for FFS, in spite of Hague gripping her about it a few weeks ago at PMQs. But apparently she just thinks she can sail on, with her simpering too-cool-for-homework schoolgirl grin, and regurgitate the latest dividing line. Dismal. No wonder Mandelson is so central.

Jane

What a boring blog! Trolls should be banned. They don't even have anything pertinent to say that can be counter-argued.

The Tories are sending a very good message today- giving people responsibility back. Responsibility for themselves, their families and their communities. And help for those genuinely in need.

Right On

Long, but I thought really good. To an earlier point there is no doubt that the main reason that the Tories are not further ahead is that there are a large chunk of the country pathologically oppossed to them - there was no way Cameron could fix that in 5 years.

I think the idea is good, I very much like the goal of reducing the ridiculously bloated state, education policy is strong, welfare looks good - overall I think they were going for the impression of a potential government with plenty of ideas.

All in all, whether you agree with the policy there is little doubt that the Conservatives are the only party with any new ideas - they might not work, but considering what we face and the shambles that's been the last three years (if not 13......) I'd say they are the best choice for the country.

Simon Stephenson

Justicia : 12.09pm

"Its not because he's missing the issues that they're on slightly ahead. I'm convinced its because the majority of the electorate have a near pathological dislike of the Tories, and will them at every turn to give them a reason not to vote for them. The tories don't just have to convince the electorate that they're ready for government, they also have to overcome an automatic prejudice against them, which in the past few weeks they have consistently failed to do."

You're right in the sense that Conservatism is pretty exclusively something for grown-ups. That's not to say that all grown-ups are Conservatives, but that all Conservatives are grown-ups, if you see the difference.

It's a philosophy that recognises that the world is real, it's got warts, it's got bad people in it, it works best when we calculate on the basis of likelihoods, not dreams, where the best outcomes come from using the mentality of chess, not ludo.

Regrettably, there will always be some people who never grow up mentally, and it's unlikely that these people will ever see virtue in Conservatism. Fact of life. But what is really sinister is the way non-Conservative adults have gone about trying to achieve their ends by deliberately increasing the number of child-adults in our society. This will be our nemesis.

Osred

Gove was good. And his message is absolutely spot on.

The Bellman

Most amusing to see the comments dominated by what appears to be the foot-soldiers of a Whelan-Draper 'surge' into right-wing sites. Financed presumably by the union modernisation fund.

But what's the likelihood that Richard and justicia are sitting at neighbouring desk-tops in the same foetid garret?

Peter From Maidstone

Justicia, you talk such a load of rubbish.

You say...

I'm convinced its because the majority of the electorate have a near pathological dislike of the Tories, and will them at every turn to give them a reason not to vote for them.

Can you explain then, how the Conservative party attracted more voters in England than the Labour party? How could this be so if the English people have a near pathological dislike of the Tories.

Quite clearly you are talking cobblers.

Nicholas

Goodness me, the Labour Trolls camped all night outside this one in order to get their jibes in. Just look at them go. Must be quite a queue of patients outside Richard's taxpayer funded foot treatment room by now.

Neil Turner

Cameron ducked / ignored / conveniently forgot the question from the FT on Green Taxation

My understanding is that this will cost every family £760 a year.

UKIP's promise to hold a Royal Commission on Climate Change looks even more atractive than it did 2 hours ago.....

Raffles

Apologies if this has been commented on already but are Richard and Justicia for real? Its all a bit pathetic really, just trying to wind people up. I guess its the lickspittle equivalent of what their Great Leader is doing. He has long since given up governing in the best interests of the country and has been embarked on a scorched earth policy in recent months. Likewise J&R, if they were sincere, would surely be out there trumpeting their great man's achievements on the doorstep rather than playing wind up merchants on this site. I think it may bring a few UKIP merchants back to the fold so maybe not all bad! ps J and R you must come to my election party, i would so like to meet the pair of you that night!

Justicia

@Peter from Maidstone:

I said they have a continuous dislike, I didn't say they would never vote for them. Understand the difference, please.

There's no doubt they've risen in the polls, but its quite clear by the fragility, the ease at which their leads dip down on the smallest mis-steps in their campaign, that they have an ongoing issue.

@Simon Stephenson:

I might not personally subscribe to it, but small-c conservatism is not the issue, and I think it accepted by the majority of the electorate as a robust and acceptable choice.

The problem is clearly a personal one, it is clear that the electorate simply do not trust the tories to deliver, and that after having lived under constant disappointment and failure under Labour.

As an aside, it is incredibly insulting for you to say that anyone who doesn't subscribe to conservatism (I'd take the capitalisation off, Conservatism is not a philosophy, conservatism is) is somehow less intellectually mature. I can point to a long list of extraordinary people all over the political spectrum, and even if I disliked their politics or thought it poor, I wouldn't call them immature.

It is perfectly possible to optimistic about human nature and realistic about politics.

Justicia

@Nicholas
@Jane

So is it trolling to be thoroughly unconvinced by what cameron has launched and for critiquing the way the public react to him?

If you want to ban all dissent from public debate you're both fools.

Part of the reason the Conservatives keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory at every opportunity is the extent to which their grassroots engage in echo-chamber debate and end up convincing themselves that the whole nation subscribes to their views wholesale.

oldtimer

I missed it!

Instead I saw a bit of the Daily Politics where Andrew Neill was extremely miffed that no Tory spokesperson was on hand to answer his questions - presumably they were still in the hall as the event was still on. They did show the bit where Gove set out education policy. He was both lucid and convincing.

Earlier in the programme there was a parade of potential voters, none of whom had a clue what Conservative policy was on any subject whatsoever. Rather like yesterday on both the BBC and on a Sky news item I watched. This looks like another election when never has so little been known by so many.

If you can be bothered, the Conservatives have posted a handy summary on line - linked to by an earlier Peter Hoskin blog. I haven`t yet checked out the Labour and Lib Dem sites. So if you want to find out details you can. Most people cannot be bothered, or if bothered it seems they want to be spoon fed. This, of course, provides plenty of opportunity for mischief and misinformation by the political antagonists; it is what makes for tedious viewing and causes me to switch off. The politicians are so unreliable about their own policies that belief in their description of their opponents policies defies rational belief.

Maybe the format of the leaders debates may provide at least a slim opportunity for concise exposition of the different party policies.

Publius

@Nicholas
I agree. I think these trolls cause decent people to switch off and not read at all -- which is doubtless their intention. Attempting to read these troll-infested sites is like trying to walk through a field of cowshit. In the end there's just too much shit and you don't bother with the walk at all.

I expect the trolls think they're very clever, and no doubt at least some are paid to do what they do. But all they're really doing is corrupting public discourse in favour of the lowest sort of parti-pris manipulation. It's ugly, and profoundly depressing.

Blockhead

Meanwhile, those of us already involved in our "society" will continue to be school governors, run sports clubs, volunteer for charities, whilst being left bemused by this manifesto. When people wish to be involved in their society, they already do so, in their droves.

This is not a message of optimism, it's a peevish message of complaint. These aren't policies generated from within the communities they pretend to serve, but policies generated by pen-pushers who still think they know best how individuals should choose to live their lives and organise their time.

The Bellman

@Justicia at 1.20pm: The right is an 'echo chamber'? Whereas the left is famous for its championing of free speech and debate. Remind me which government has consistently legislated to erode the distinction between thought, speech and action; and whose apologists squeal 'wayyyyycism', 'climate denialist!' or 'homophobia!' whenever someone suggests immigration might not be an unqualified good, that some claims of the AGW crowd might be exaggerated, or that there might be legitimate grounds for preferring the traditional family to the modern imitations of that condition.

And it's odd that you pop up to post numerous infantile comments about the Tory manifesto, but were much less interested in yesterday's Potemkin hospital debacle. You'll forgive, I'm sure, the suspicions that you are an agent provocateur, whether you do that on a union-funded or pro bono basis...

Nicholas

Justicia: "If you want to ban all dissent from public debate you're both fools."

We both know that is not what this is about and in any case banning dissent from public debate is very New Labour rather than Tory. But anyway we posted about trolling - not banning debate.

You suddenly pop up with a flurry of anti-posts on this particular issue - hmm. Problem is that New Labour's propaganda machine has proved itself to be so devious and manipulative who to trust? If you are a genuine commentator then blame Brown and McBride not me, for the scepticism.

Simon Stephenson

Justicia : 1.18pm

"As an aside, it is incredibly insulting for you to say that anyone who doesn't subscribe to conservatism (I'd take the capitalisation off, Conservatism is not a philosophy, conservatism is) is somehow less intellectually mature. I can point to a long list of extraordinary people all over the political spectrum, and even if I disliked their politics or thought it poor, I wouldn't call them immature."

which is why I specifically wrote in my first paragraph:-

"Conservatism is pretty exclusively something for grown-ups. That's not to say that all grown-ups are Conservatives, but that all Conservatives are grown-ups, if you see the difference."

I'm saying that child-minds find it difficult to relate to Conservatism, not that every non-Conservative has a child-mind. I did this both to be clear what I meant, and also to nip in the bud the standard modern argumentative technique of diverting to the personal a discussion about the impersonal. In the latter aim, it seems I was unsuccessful.

An acknowledgement of your mistake would be welcome.

I use the capital C because I am discussing the philosophy of a political party. Small c conservatism, to me, covers an area much wider than this.

Jane

@justicia, or whatever your real name is, I most certainly would not seek to ban well considered and communicated dissent, it is vital for grown up discussion. But your childish outbursts and catty remarks don't do you any favours. Why don't you read through your earlier comments, then tell me you are not cringing on the inside, at least just a little. I don't want/need the cabinet of the next government to be personalities or wannabe celebs- we had enough of that with Blair, remember. I would be happy to settle for them being good at their jobs.

Simon Stephenson

Publius : 1.28pm

"@Nicholas

I agree. I think these trolls cause decent people to switch off and not read at all -- which is doubtless their intention. Attempting to read these troll-infested sites is like trying to walk through a field of cowshit. In the end there's just too much shit and you don't bother with the walk at all.

I expect the trolls think they're very clever, and no doubt at least some are paid to do what they do. But all they're really doing is corrupting public discourse in favour of the lowest sort of parti-pris manipulation. It's ugly, and profoundly depressing."

As a strategy, of course, it's a lineal descendent of the far-left infiltration of the Unions and the Labour Party in the sixties, seventies and early-eighties. Raising the commitment level required so high that most people, even if they wanted to participate, decided not to do so. What put them off was the thought that even to have the chance of some sort of platform at a chapel or branch meeting one would first have to sit through hour after hour of ranting and tractor-statistics.

The activists knew, of course, that they were so poorly supported in the general population that the only way they could "win" was by removing most of the people from the game. Filling the field full of cowshit, as you so admirably put it, was just one of the ways they showed their contempt for the rest of us.

echo34

Justicia,

by all means have your own opinion, but don't try to lecture me on what the british public likes or dislikes. That's a new labour spin method if ever i saw one.

Count the number of times a labour mp answers a question with 'well i think what the people of this country are concerned about...'

Simon Stephenson

Justicia

An hour and a quarter now since you were challenged by my comment of 1.52pm to put right what you had done before.

I'd suggest you'ld do well to reply to my comment - that is unless you're happy to be confirmed as the irritating little pest that many on this site already have you marked down as.

Fox in a box

Oh dear,

our resident Trolls do seem to have got their knickers in a twist this morning!

Tally ho!

Simon Stephenson

Justicia

Nearly three hours now.

Worthwhile human-being?

Or irritating little pest?

Herbert Thornton

How about this passage -

"A Conservative government will change the law so that never again would a government be able to agree to a Treaty that hands over areas of power from Britain to the EU without a referendum. That would include any attempt to scrap the pound for the euro;"

A salesman's cast-iron believable promise, eh?

A cast iron promise as believable as that of the salesman in the Monty Python skit about the dead parrot.