Is Europe a Con-Lib deal-breaker?

Richard of York

Dream on!
Tory policy on EU is a mess.
The party are ready to split down the middle on the issue.
Sham man sending gay candidate to talk to other EU faction group is like send a mouse to chat with the pythons....could be a tight squeeze.
Americans think he is lightweight and Africa loves Brown.....his only supporter is Mugabe...nice friends Shameron.
Happy days!

Ian Walker

Dear Mr Korski,

I am a CoffeeHouse regular, and for the record, I doubt I'll be egging on any Eurosceptic Tories; therefore might I politely suggest that you take your tarry brush and stuff it up your arse?

We're Conservatives, we don't all think the same, and we think that differences of opinion and debate are a healthy part of a democracy. Slavish devotion to an abstract ideology is for students and amateurs.

John Adlington

How in God's name can you have a Foreign Sec who so manifestly hates his own country. Defies belief, sorry.

Nicholas

But behind all the hype (and useful smokescreen) of Cleggomania and hung parliaments, the power brokers of the Left are engaged in eager negotiations to ensure the permanence of the "Progressive Politics", the creation of a permanent "Anti-conservative" government, the survival of the Leftist project for Britain beyond Brown, regardless of what British voters want. This plan loves the focus on the demise of Brown, scapegoat for the Left and Right, as a useful diversion to the installation of Marxism by other means.

If you want to report something useful, go beyond the noisy rooms full of balloons and finger pointing and explore the dark rooms at the back of the building, full of the new Lefty elite of this country, the poll controlling Quangocracy and HoL NewLabstocracy, urgently attempting to negotiate the post-Brown Lib/Lab pact to create a permanent Left wing government and to destroy conservatism for ever.

And I typed this without wearing my tinfoil hat.

Salopian

Daniel Korski is right. An in/out referendum at this point would be a massive own goal for Clegg. (and one suspects that Korski knows it).

As for Clegg being offered the FO - how likely is that? How would he work with a Prime Minister who is has taken his party (and therefore his Government) out of the major coalition in the EU Parliament?

However one could argue that Clegg at the FCO might be able to engineer a raprochement with Merkel and Sarkozy . It may be that Cameron regrets his decision to pull theTories out of grouop. But if he does not then and I suspect will continue to be Hague territory.

In another blog it is argued that Clegg's promise of an In/out refrerendum will syphon off Tory redneck voters. But these good folk are already thinking of votiing UKIP - so it'll be UKIP which will suffer.

It will only matter in close contests between Tories and LibDems and those constituencies are not by and large major anti-eu strongholds

Vulture

Daniel:

Why must your posts be so convoluted and lengthy? Read Hemingway on writing: keep it short. Keep it simple. You do neither.

Cameron a Euro- sceptic?( that's how we spell it here, Dan.) MWHAHAHAHAHA!! He used to wear the EU logo on his cufflinks, for Chrissake!

All three mainstream parties are signed up to the EU-diktat. It's just that the Lib dems are up the Brussels fundament a little further than the Tories.

This is one of several issues (immigration, death penalty) where our political elite are out of step with the majority of their electors: which is why you don't hear too much about them.

I hope that Clegg ( admittedly for his own weaselly motives) will force Dave to promise an In/Out referendum. That would win back a couple of million UKIP voters and clinch the election. It would also leave Liebore - who actually signed up to Lisbon - looking pretty sick. Not that they don't already, of course.

Ian C

Mine and other comments on the blog benetah this cover this. If clegg tries this on he will instantly be seen as a cynical opportunist and undo all the good he did last week. Go on Clegg. Make our day.

michael dearden

If there is a hung Parliament Clegg will do a deal with Labour not the Conservatives. As to his promise of a referendum on Europe, it is merely a manifesto promise and, as usual, would be reneged on. Come into the real world. A vote for the Lib/Dems has always and will always be a vote for Labour.

Sir Graphus

If Clegg were elected outright, he'd say, "ooh, crikey, did I really make all those rash promises. What do we do?"

He's relying on a coalition to save himself from his own policies.

After Lisbon, Clegg has no right to be believed on any EU referendum promise.

AndyinBrum

Vulture- you've just proved DK's point for him

Andy Carpark

EU EU EU If EU EU EU But EU EU EU Maybe EU EU EU Coulda EU EU EU Woulda EU EU EU Shoulda.

And then you have the audacity to conclude with ‘But who knows.’

Look in the mirror, Mr Korski. Make sure your reflection is not gazing in bewilderment over your shoulder. It’s not? Good. Now take stock and ask yourself,

‘What person in their right mind would waste their life reading this toss?’

Vulture

Andy: That's probably because his post was so damn confusing that I couldn't work out what his point was!

Mark Cannon

All this talk of coalitions is getting out of control. If, as is quite likely, the Tories are the largest party by some way, then they can form a government on largely their terms for about a year. They would have to hold back on any measure which was too controversial to get through the Commons (and their proposed Act requiring a referendum on any future treaty would be one such measure), but could have an emergency budget and cut spending this year, challenging the other parties to defeat them. Then they could hold another election (as happened in 1974).

Alternatively, they do some sort of deal with the LibDems to cover a stated period (a year, probably) in order to ensure that the country has a government which will start dealing with the deficit etc. There would be no need to offer PR in return: it would be on the basis that the country needs a government and it is up to the LibDems to act responsibly.

Clegg & Co (and many journalists) are getting over-excited at present and over-estimate the likely strength of the LibDems' position on May 7.

Major Plonquer

WRONG! The position of the UK becoming a province of a European superstate does NOT bore the public. Far from it. This would be the 'elephant in the room' if the EU hadn't banned the keeping of elephants in domestic quarters.

2trueblue

John Adlington, just because he lives here does not mean that it is his country. He is European, he wants the euro, he wants greter integration with the EU. Foreign Secretary is not a post he could be trusted with. Hopefully it will not happen.

TomTom

Nick Clegg, a former MEP and adviser to then-EU Commissioner Leon Brittan

Didn't Nick Clegg's wife work closely with David Cameron's Chief of Staff in brussels ?

Steve Tierney

I dont' really understand the vitriol poured on this article in some of the comments. I thought it was well-written and quite interesting. Thanks.

teledu

Yes Steve Tierney I agree. Although I don't necessarily agree with all of the article, it was perfectly readable and made some good points: it was a reasonable analysis. We seem to be reaching a point where a blogger on here dare not make a mistake with spelling, grammar or punctuation without attracting bilious scorn and condescension, quite often from people who have good points to make but choose to aim their fire at the messenger.
Get real Coffee-Housers.
This isn't a place where comments are proof-read and copy edited over days; it's a rapid-fire, quick turnaround internet blog. The constipated headmaster replies from some obscure the better points they could be making. Pointing out spelling-mistakes etc. DOES NOT prove you're superior. Be judged on your opinions and allow others to hold opposing ones.

AdamR

Steve, totally agreed. What you'll find is that the UKrap trolls who come on here and rant on about single issues just like to have ago at anyone who suggests that they might be going a bit far when they harp on about an 'EU superstate' all the time. Clearly they don't seem to realise that whilst many people are concerned by Europe and the problems of the EU, they are not as paranoid about it as so many of the Kippers seem to be. Most people at this election are far more concerned by the state of the economy, the NHS, education issues etc. Europe is a best an issue on the backburner and canvassing has certainly shown this.

Dorothy Wilson

AdamR; But they are concerned about immigration and the EU impacts on that.

denis cooper

Indeed, who knows when a new "amending treaty" will emerge, if ever?

Eurofederalists like the Liberal Democrat MEP Andrew Duff have already said that the Lisbon Treaty can't take the EU all the way that he wants it to go, despite some scope for "self-amendment", and with the Greek crisis there's talk of changing the treaties to remove the "no bail out" clauses and allow the creation of a European Monetary Fund.

On the other hand, the Irish were promised that their so-called "legal guarantees" would eventually be given legal status through amendments to the treaties, and that might be done through a protocol attached to the next "accession treaty", most likely a treaty for the accession of Croatia.

Duff criticised that approach on the grounds that it broke the rules for amending the treaties, but on the other hand it would have the attraction that piecemeal treaty amendments could be made with successive accession treaties.

However once that procedure was accepted it would be possible to go further, and start putting small groups of amendments into short protocols as and when required, each of which protocols would be attached to, and would amend, the existing treaties.

There would be no insuperable technical barrier to doing that: not so long ago Parliament approved a new protocol to the Geneva Convention, which was ratified as a separate document to be attached to the existing Convention.

Not only would these be less conspicuous procedures than putting numerous amendments into a massive amending treaty, it could also make it easier for politicians to renege on any referendum pledge they had given.

Any of them - Cameron just as much as Clegg - could point out for the first procedure that their pledge only related to amending treaties, not to accession treaties, and for the second procedure they could argue that their pledge referred to a "treaty", and this is only a "protocol" - and how many members of the general public would see through that false distinction?