Parisian protests

David

"But is the message getting through to those in charge?"

Sorry, what are they supposed to do, cancel it?

I have no problem with the protests, but I see nothing to crow about in the assaulting of people holding the torch and the prevention of people with a different view from go about their business.

London

We're hearing a lot about Tibet in these protests, and rightly so. Let us please remember, though, that simple acts that we regard here as being perfectly normal - trying to attend Christian religious services (protestant or Roman Catholic), or trying to become part of a trade union, or even simply insisting on carrying through a pregnancy or wanting a second child - can be the ticket to a death sentence in China.

I am normally the most anti-protest person out there, but in this case, I applaud those who are brave enough to stand up against a nation which, though including millions of decent and laudable people, still has some national policies that are as bad as anything Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot ever conceived.

Christopher

It is all very well banging on about the way the Chinese government treats the people of Tibet, and indeed its own people, but it remains important that we do not lose sight of the true meaning of the Olympic ideal in all this. Remember - Our bunch of drug takers is better at certain bizarre and irrelevant activities than Johnny Foreigner’s bunch of drug takers!

Verity

Good on the French! They will never let one down over a riot. The thing I noticed about them when lived in France was, they get dressed up to riot. French rioters are very chic.

I don't a the way out of this impasse now. The Chinese will not back down. Where's this ridiculous, pretentious procession going next?

Oh, wow, I just looked it up! San Francisco! Hippy capital, flowers in your hair, of the world. Peace. Love. The San Francisco peaceniks will eat them alive.

And next up, Buenos Aires. The Argentinians are the most "European" of all of Latin America, so we will see.

The problem is face. The Chinese did not understand how seriously the rest of the world takes the Tibet issue. They regard it as an internal matter, and the Chinese population at large would not dream of interfering in an internal matter of another country. This is why they are so shocked and paralysed. They cannot, at this point, back down and lose face. Whether you like it or not, we are dealing with 5,000 of "face" here.

The best thing that could happen all round is if San Francisco cancelled the run, citing public order, and so did BA. Let them go straight on to Asia.

Otherwise, it is going to be a horrible impasse and we may witness China closing itself off from the world again. We don't want that. I hope SF cancels the visit and so does BA.

George Steiner

Well Master Hoskin, what exactly are you and the entire overheated westen intelligentsia would like to see in Tibet? I know, you would all like to see this nice inofensive fellow, the Dalai Lama restored to his rightfull place and the religious freedom of these inoffensive Budhist monks to be free to twirl their prayer mills without let or hindrance. But Master Hoskin, the monks have ruled Tibet for 400 years. It was a backward xenophobic place even by the standards of such places. That the monks want to be top dogs again is not a surprise. That the morally compromised western world is ready to help them is not much of a surprise either.

salieri

The answer is simple: just arrange for the torch to be flown to SF from Termnal 5.

Max Kaye

The Chinese regime (and philosophy) is foul. Nearly as foul as the regime of the Tibetan Buddhist monks (as 'George Steiner' rightly points out. So, I say a plague on both their houses. (But I'm not giving up my made-in-China iPod).

I think we should support whatever policies annoy the Olympic Committee to such an extent that they take back the 2012 Games from London and give them to whichever sucker wants them.

(We can throw in a free Tessa Jowell too!)

Curious?

Shouldn't the torch go back to greece to be relit?

Napoleon

I think most of us agree that what China is doing in Tibet must have serious consequences for the Chinese government, but I don't think that boycotting the Olympics is the best way to do this. The Olympics are supposed to be about sports, not about politcs. I understand that the Beijing government is using this event with political purposes. I just don't agree that we act in the same manner as they.

Verity

Salieri - V funny!

I don't think anyone foresaw the cultural impasse that would come about through awarding the games to China. Well, I'm sure a lot of China hands did, and tried to explain, but they were ignored with an "It'll be all right on the night" attitude.

There is such a cultural chasm, which could probably have been overcome if there had been teams of bilingual people addressing this problem for the past four years.

Face is everything to the Chinese, and that is their way. The West wouldn't mind giving them face, but not when it goes against our belief in democracy. What a mess!

How was this allowed to happen? But the upside is, it's putting Brits off 2012. And if we tried to offload it on the French, I have a feeling that M Sarkozy would say "Merci, mais non!"

What on earth was this dreadful torch doing coming to Britain and France anyway? And why is it going to Buenos Aires? And San Francisco? It should be going from Greece to Beijing.

It's all so bizarre.

Nicholas

George Steiner: "But Master Hoskin, the monks have ruled Tibet for 400 years. It was a backward xenophobic place even by the standards of such places." So that gives China the right to muscle in does it? One of the most oppressive, mischievous and irresponsible nations in the world today (I exclude Britain) has the right to trample on the Tibetans because they were/are backward and xenophobic? Interesting approach.

I thought the scenes in London were pathetic, demeaning and so redolent of New Labour's brave new world. Sport, so often touted in terms of magnificent human qualities, seems to bring out the worst in people.

Verity

Nicholas - I agree! Sport is ghastly. Especially athletics, where the focus is on the self-worshipping prat who spent 20 years practising running 500 metres. Or jumping over a pole.

There's something totalitarian about "athletics".

Fergus Pickering

No. Sport is fine. For those who like it. But why should those who don't like it subsidize those who do. Because sport is good for the soul and makes you a better person. So does Buddhist medirtation but I don't see why I should pay for it. Let's have football and cricket and all that but let's abolish the Olympics. Or hand them over to Coca-cola to run.