Labour leadership candidates move towards the Cruddas position on immigration

Jez

Rubble in gardens.

Not 250,000 immigrants a year and a ever increasingly undermined host culture?

It's 'Rubble'.

(We're all f*cked.)

glenlivetguy

Ah so that is what our PM meant by " The Big Society!" Brilliant penny has dropped.

Occasional Ostrich

The question should really be, "WHY did they not do enough on immigration?" But maybe the answer's obvious; unless and until they take their eyes away from the distorting lens of socialism they're never going to be able to come to any decision that puts the nation's needs first.

Mike

It takes a lost election for Labour to realise that human nature isn't quite what it thinks or wants it to be. There is a natural pride in keeping your house in a good condition & the garden outside and that applies to both owners with a vested interest like a mortgage but also to most council tenants. The problem with 13 years of Labour rule is that pride has been knocked to hell and back by the minority spoiling it for the majority under 'uman rights' legislation. My ex-father in law who rented a new 3 bed room maisonette in Stepney during the 70's looked after his house & garden as well as any home owner with a vested interest in the property. He & his neighbours were given this housing as they previously lived in slum accommodation and maybe there's a clue here. Many of today tenants in housing association property have little respect for the property and certainly not the garden that looks like a council tip. As MacMillan once said, you've never had it so good and thats so true with Labours low lifes.

I lived next door to one such family in Denham, Bucks in the 80's & 90's and the husband next door was a lazy shite who despite having a large garden he rarely mowed the grass. As a consequence his unruly kids played football in the street damaging our cars and even their mother didn't give a damn over their behaviour. It strikes me that when you give too much to benefit scroungers they lose track of personal values and expect the state to provide for everything.

Its time to roll back the benefits and make these people understand true values for once in their lives and then perhaps their off spring will behave better as well.

Minnie Ovens

Well, yes. It's just that suddenly the high socialist mucky mucks, looking at their failure in the last election, have taken a bite of the reality apple, for once.
I was told by a real labour party member before this election that the two issues on the C2DE's minds were Housing and Immigration.
Nothing else.
Mr Cameron, the ultimate pragmtist, has immediately forgotten most of his vague manifesto promises in his haste to groove like a LibDem. One of those was upon immigration.
If the Millibands, and Labour, fasten upon immigration they are going to come back on a far stronger footing than before.
Beware Mr Cameron. If you don't atend to immigration prepare to hand back to Labour sooner rather than later.
That's if you leave the Constitution as is. Was that another Manifesto promise I missed?

O'Harlan

Labour simply has no political interest in stopping either immigration or welfare dependency.

It will not have escaped their notice that Tories did badly in areas with a large ethnic bloc. If Labour can increase the size of these blocs and increase the number of welfare dependents, they increase their chances of staying in power.

Expect immigration to rocket up again next time Labour is in power.

Aberdeen Angus

How very convenient. Now that Labour are out of power and unable to do anything about it they are suddenly concerned about the effects of immigration.

Osred

Without doubt some Labour MPs have taken note of the immigration issue. What they will do is construct a convincing appearance of concern and action because real action is just too difficult and too late to address current grievances.

Absolutely nothing substantial would come of it in numeric terms.

As for an immigration 'cap' this will only apply to non-EU people who are applying for work here. Those claiming asylum, entry for family or marriage reasons, illegals caught but not immediately deported, overstaying 'student' visa holders, or those legitimised by the current Home Office undeclared amnesty (currently called a review), will be unaffected. In other words no change to the numbers because real action will be too difficult and nasty to handle - let the 1.5-2m sleeping dogs lie.

Andy Ritchie

The point about rubble in Dagenham gardens is part of a broader point about the ultimate failure of the 'right to buy' policy instituted by Thatcher in the 1980s.

In the Thatcher/Blair ideological worldview, right to buy would promote a greater sense of responsibility because people owned their own homes.

In reality it helped destroy communities, with private landlords and speculators cashing in, and prevented councils from addressing housing need with any rational policy.

Simon Stephenson

"Strikingly, most people change their behavior voluntarily; suggesting that there is an appetite for a community out there."

It's only "voluntary" in the 21st Century sense of the word. Previously, it would have been recognised that doing something to avoid an arbitrarily-imposed fine or bill did, in fact, involve a degree of coercion.

EyeSee

The obvious point, very,very obvious and shouting out from even this article, is that immigration isn't a class issue at all. Most things aren't. It is 13 years of Labour propaganda that makes you think otherwise, nothing else at all. No substance to the claim whatsoever. Mass immigration was deliberately used by New Labour to undermine and destroy British society. And I'm sure that the best way to run a society, front gardens and all, is to get the state to tell us what to do. Can it be that some are missing the stupidity of New Labour already?

SUSAN HILL

Immigration was always about numbers not about race. I lived in Leamington Spa in the late 60s/70s when a large number of Pakistanis arrived. Ditto Coventry where I had lived and to which I returned regularly. Whole neighbourhoods changed in short time and you constantly heard people saying what they objected to was so many from whatever country in one place together, altering the balance. When people spread out so that they make a mixed area there is never the same objection. The other thing the English minded was the refusal to integrate but instead to become a little Pakistan with language, shops, places of worship, apparel etc. all being entirely foreign. But the Ugandan Asians and the Vietnamese boat refugees, for example, not only spread through the country but integrated, learning English and mixing, not creating large ghettoes.

David Lindsay

We cannot deliver the welfare provisions and the other public services that our people have rightly come to expect unless we know how many people there are in this country, unless we control immigration properly, and unless we insist that everyone use spoken and written English to the necessary level.

Past Labour Governments took action to arrest the importation of a new working class whose members understood no English except commands, knew nothing about workers’ rights in this country, could be deported if they stepped out of line, and, since they had no affinity with any particular locality here, could be moved around at will. Such action was also taken against the enforced bilingualism or multilingualism that transfers economic, social, cultural and political power to a bilingual or multilingual élite, to the exclusion of the English-speaking working class, black and white.

The trade union-based No2EU – Yes To Democracy list at the 2009 European Elections was headed both in the East Midlands and in Yorkshire and the Humber by leaders of the Lindsey oil refinery workers. This recalled the historic role of the trade union closed shop in preventing such abuses, as surely as in guaranteeing to working-class Tories a moderating influence in the selection of the Labour parliamentary candidates for the safe Labour constituencies in which they lived.

Barbara

Well this is a bit rich for me, looking at gardens, and community. They should come here I can give them a fine example; after spending some £20,000 on our house for our retirement we then had new neighbours, from Asia, and what a mess we now look upon, its like a Islamabad tip, sorry there's nothing else to describe it. Can we get them to have 'community spirit' like hell we can. So we are left with our nice tidy garden and the garden from hell next door to us, the rubbish is unbelieveable. I wish we had a scheme like the one mentioned I'd use it like a shot, but round here your branded racists if you speak out. That's the big society we've developed and Cameron as a lot to do to alter that. Anger as gone to depression and hoping they move or eventually we will, with reduced price for all the years work and money. They've a lot to say and alter before I vote Labour again.

Catesby

Well, it will be interesting to see that now Labour are saying things that yesterday they would have loudly denounced as racist, will they retain the loyalty of ethnic minorities?

call me dave

Cruddas supports an amnesty for illegal immigrants.

TrevorsDen

Will Lanour now admit the social engineering reasons behind mass immigration and their electoral calculations?

There are so many ways in which labour has shafted the country over the last three years that one wonders where to start. But the mass importation of migrants and the sidelining of the white working class is one of the most savage and callous. Huge damage has been done to the fabric of British society- its facile to expect the incoming govt to be able to do anything rapidly about it. I for one wonder where the flaming hell one begins to start.

David Lindsay

Andy Ritchie, even Thatcher's most stalwart defenders are usually too embarrassed to mention the sale of council housing.

The State gifted considerable capital assets to people so that they entered the housing market ahead of private tenants who had saved for their deposits. What on earth was conservative about that?

In so doing, the State created for itself the whole Housing Benefit racket, which even if it were fraud-free (and it is anything but) would still be colossally more expensive than simply maintaining a stock of council housing and renting it out.

Jeremy

I see. So the answer to the immigration problem is to tidy up the front garden.

If only I had realised this sooner...it would have saved me a lot of unnecessary anxiety.

Language Police

We still spell "behaviour" with a 'u'.

Jez

You're right Jeremy.

I was quite worried about the major changes that could inevitably engulf my town within the next 20 years- like what's been seen in certain places here in Yorkshire.

But i can now rest easy. First thing Monday morning, a trawl through the yellow pages; Landscape Gardeners.

Nulab and the MSN have created that elusive magic-wand we've all been scrambling about for down here in the dirt.

Thanks guys. You're really great.

Derek

TrevorsDen

One amendment to your post:

"Will Labour and Fraser Nelson now admit the social engineering reasons behind mass immigration and their electoral calculations?"

2trueblue

Liebore, says it all. They spent 13yrs. telling us about their initiatives. Remember, they were announced every day by the BBC and did the BBC ever follow up what actually got done???? No.
Liebore, don't let us be lied to, don't listen to them. Same old, dame old. They have had their turn and wrecked our future. We will put it back, we will pay, not the politicians. Thebest thing we can do is ignore the negativity that they spread for 13yrs.

Ruby Duck

Damned if I'm going to tidy up my front garden.

Ron Todd

It was typical that one of the last acts of Gordon Brown was to cut back on immigration servises at Dover.

TomTom

Tories did badly in areas with a large ethnic bloc.

and postal votes

Liz Brown

so the Labour leader candidates are now running, like bats out of hell, from the policies they have foisted on us over the last 13 years, Same old mantra "nothing to do with us, Guv" Bastards the lot of them

terence patrick hewett

Labour middle class radicalism has more than a tendency to regard the working classes as merely an abstraction to be used up and disposed of at will; or as the Spanish liberal philosopher Ortega y Gasset put it; "the inert matter of the historical process." Labour have learnt nothing: mass migration is not a class issue but a human issue, and there we have it: Labour really still regard us as a lower order of humanity to be treated kindly, but fit only to be run by competent experts, i.e. themselves.

anne allan

Andy Ritchie - when I am in what for convenience I will call council estates, it is painfully obvious which houses have been bought and which are still council owned. When I think how carefully the buyers have worked and budgeted to afford and improve their former council house, while next door is some waster who uses his garden as a rubbish tip, I get blood before my eyes.

Straight Talk

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/mobile.do?load=wapDetay&link=210271

"New UK government unlikely to oppose Turkey's EU bid"

“In fact, the appointment of David Cameron as British prime minster will have no impact on Turkey’s relationship with the EU because the Conservatives, as Labour and Liberal Democrats, all support Turkey’s accession to the EU. Therefore, there will be a continuation of policy,” Amanda Paul, an analyst at the European Policy Center in Brussels, told Today’s Zaman in an interview."

Has anyone, anywhere got a clue why we need to add more members, like Turkey, to the EU and thus increase the number of people with open door access to Britain.....

Madness, complete and utter madness.

Uncle Vanya De Caesaromagus

What we have to be most concerned about now after the new Tory-Lib-Dem coalition government is now in office. Is just how bad the UKs public finacial mess is!!

Did Brown and his Labour Pals try to hide the true nature of the fiscal mess, or did they really not know just how much their spendthrift ways were undermining a economic/financial reovery of the UK?

Can Blair, Brown and New Labour be likened to a bunch of Drunks who found a wallet of cash on the street, then go on an enourmous drunken spending spree around the Pubs of the area. We will never know now, unless people close to Blair and Brown break ranks and publish 'Kiss and Tell' memoirs about New Labour and its wastefull ways.

Fergus Pickering

Andy Ritchie, what utter balls you do talk. Do you believe any of it yourself? Oh, and where do you live?